Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Regarding the packaging: Since the part of the manual with the cdkey was intact, it didn't cause any real problems. It is, however, a problem with delivery by mail and was meant to illustrate the problem that people outside the US face with only being able to obtain the game by mail - it might not arrive quite intact.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Actually thats one of the big problems with digital distribution. More than with the mail system (at least in my country). Ive been involved in sites trying to come up with their own controls on digital download. Its still an ongoing effort across the net.

The larger the product the more likely it will not arrive quite intact. So the system has to handle the purchase thru credit cards or paypal, then authorize a download, then remember the authorization in case the download breaks, then be able to allow the download again in a way that does not support someone else downloading it. And it has to do that without directly tying in the purchase information (you dont want credit cards stored forever on a download server). Usually its done with multiple servers. A hefty expense.

The purchase system has been ironed out for quite awhile. There are "shopping cart" packages available for installing on a server. But there are no good packages yet for DD. And the sites which offer only DD for their produts are being closely watched by everyone else to see how effectively they can manage the problems.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Actually, getting free downloads and manuals is a better service than having to pay for it, and getting it mailed. That the creators are not getting paid is not relevant for service reasons.

Sure there are a lot of reasons why piracy is bad. (Mainly because developers are not getting paid). And the level of piracy will influence the service the developers will provide. But that does not make 'free download' a bad service. It just has other consequences. That these consequences are unwanted is a totally different issue.

Sorry for nitpicking :).

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3...eadlichnv1.jpg
Wow, I can't believe someone (Gandalf) revived this old thread. At least he was kind enough to also cast Gift of Reason on it, so that the discussion might be reasonable and polite.

Still, Shrapnel Games has clearly said that they won't offer digital downloads for Dom3 and that they aren't open to persuasion on the matter. The developers have said they're okay with Shrapnel's answer. Given those responses, I simply don't see how this discussion has any future to it ... no matter how reasonable and polite people are willing to be.

In other words, y'all are doing this: :horse:
So I'll do this: :hide:

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

If the overall service form the developers degrades and/or ends completely, those consequences are very relevant. It depends on whether you look at things from the point of contact perspective or from the perspective of the entire chain.

From the latter, which is what I'm using, pirates are nothing but parasites. The "service" they provide is entirely dependent on someone else having done all the work, it is completely incapable of existing on its own. Therefore it is by definition inferior.

Computer games are a luxury product, so there is NO excuse to not pay for them. Some solutions may not be the most absolutely user friendly from the end user point of view, but must be used due to practical considerations.

But as has been said, Shrapnel Games has made its position crystal clear, so there is nothing left to discuss as far as digital downloads of Dominions 3 are concerned.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I was all for digital distribution until I discovered that if there are any new patches its almost impossible to patch a digitally distributed game because they are not compatible!!! I bought heroes v digitally and cant update the game to the new patch! :mad: Basically your screwed if you want a fully updated game especially if the game company comes out with a late patch....

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

WOW that would totally suck with this game. I cant even begin to think what it would be like to go back at this point and play with the vanilla version right off the disc.

But Im not sure it would be true with all games. The difficult part is tracking whether or not a game is authorized to receive the patch. Minor patches might not be a big deal but full upgrades would be.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Why would it be hard to track?
Or any harder than telling whether a CD install is authorized or not?

I may be naive about these things, but in the end there's an executable on the user's machine, to which you apply the patch. How it got there is irrelevant. Currently it's the CD-key that determines whether it's legit or not. Why not something similar with a download?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

It has nothing to do with authorization. The store bought and digital bought are two different versions of the game. So any new patches cannot be applied!

See this thread about the new heroes v patch:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...6431050186/p/4

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

That depends on the game. There are games where store and digital bought executables are the same.

If you go with digital distribution, the best way to do it is like Stardock does it. I've bought Space Empires V on Steam and was dissapointed to find it installs in strange directory and can't use the same updates as normal version does.
On the other hand, Galactic Civilization II bought from Stardock worked much better.

Of course, Dominions is better game than either of those, yet still i had to buy it from an internet shop in England and wait for delivery. Well worth though, since i got Dominions i bought only one more game (and that was very disappointing Spore) as i haven't got bored with Dominions 3 yet :)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Stardock does seem to have a good lead on how to manage things. However they are not releasing their version of DD as a package. So its up to each site to try and write their own version if they want to follow in their footsteps.

Everyone is watching everyone else. Once someone really irons out all of the problems and makes it available as an installable package then I think many more sites will jump on. Just as it happened with forums, wikis, chats, and shopping carts.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

So there is money to be made for the one who perfects this? That would be some incentive for people to do it.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

If they have the infrastructure and the money to do so.

There's a lot of money to be made in Cold Fusion, as well, but I can understand Shrapnel not racing for the answers. ;)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

True, but infrastructure and money are solvable problems. That is all a matter of scaling and acquiring capital. The first has been done by IT people for years now. And the second is also doable (but a bit harder in the current financial climate).

Edit:
And I'm not suggesting that Shrapnel should do it but if some company does this successfully it would be profitable for them.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Well the company that sells the Forum software we are using is doing well (after all, Shrapnel bought that. Twice). And the Shopping Cart software is doing well (Shrapnel bought that also). So yes I would guess that a Digital Download Distribution package would sell quite well eventually. It would have its dangers (like a shopping cart package) so I wouldnt expect Shrapnel to jump on one as soon as its released. But it would make a big difference in the decision to offer it or not.

The method being used by Shrapnel now for its other games seems to still be in transition testing.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

It depends on the distributor. Steam and Direct to Drive have their own DRM wrapper on the game, so nine times in ten you can't use the retail patch on their version. Gamer's Gate tends to provide the install ripped straight from the CD, so functionally it's identical to the retail release (in most cases, I recently bought Gothic III and they were kind enough to provide it pre-patched to 1.6, which they pointed out "means it can work with the community patches". Jolly nice of them I thought).
Impulse goes one better though; Stardock's intent is to allow you to register any game they carry regardless of where you bought it (primarily via CD keys and the like) so you can use the automatic update feature of Impulse with the game, which would be kind of neat for something like Dominions. Since it's verifying on CD keys no authentication issues either.

It would be nice to see Dominions up there on Impulse, although 99% of my problems with having the game shipped across the pond would be resolved if they'd just write "gift" on the customs declaration. Saves me £15 if her majesty's finest decide to poke around in my mail.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I sincerely hope that future products from illwinter offer digital distribution methods...

Would you believe that my Dominions package took more than 4 months to get to me in Brazil? All because of brazilian customs bureaucracy...

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I wouldnt hold out much hope for that.
You can get one of the first Illwinter programs as DD, "Conquest of Ellysium II" and its even free. But a new product will likely be large, a major source of revenue for bot Illwinter and Shrapnel, and be offered thru Shrapnels channels. So I would not expect them to take chances on it.

What I WOULD like to see is previous versions offered as DD. If Dom1 or Dom2 were offered DD then I think it would be a reasonable argument in THAT case that the possible sales would outweigh the possible losses.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

This, to me, is an outstanding (and sadly, all too rare) sentiment to express. Sir, I salute you. Now if I could just develop a greater liking for hardcore wargames, I might purchase a few more items - but sadly Dom3 and SEIV are likely to be it for the time being.

Now how about flexing that chequebook and buying up Atari, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft and Valve and then sacking all the DRM-fanboys they employ? Then we could see digital distribution done properly, where legitimate purchasers don't have to live in fear of their licences being revoked.

As for the thread topic, I would be in favour of digital distribution generally (no postage delay or risk of damage due to an overzealous courier) but I consider the online activation requirements of systems like Steam or Impulse totally unacceptable and I boycott all their products on principle.

For those who have purchased from such services (and who go as far as to advocate them here) I'd just like to ask:

• Have you considered what would happen if the company went bankrupt and the activation servers shut down?
• Have you thought about the likelihood of digital publishers (Valve/Steam especially here) seeking to milk their customers in future by imposing an annual or monthly fee to keep accounts active?
• Have you ever thought that, by supporting such DRM, you are encouraging publishers to tighten systems more, pushing customers into digital slavery?

The only way to do digital distribution without leaving buyers vulnerable to later exploitation is via "once only, ever" verification systems which essentially is how shareware works. You register when you pay, you receive a personal licence key (which then shows your name on the program title/opening screen - encouraging people to keep their keys private) and the only piracy check is a local blacklist of known warez keys that gets updated in subsequent patches. Pirates are denied the latest version without legitimate customers having to suffer.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

1) The likelihood of Impulse/Stardock going out of business anytime soon is nil. Due to Brad's disposition, and his strong stance on these issues, I would not doubt that he would personally see to it that all products purchased prior to dissolution of Stardock, would be allowed to be used in perpetuity.

2) I do not and will not use Steam, or some of these other services. But to imply this is a possible scenario with Stardock, is to express lack of understanding of what Brad Wardell and Stardock are trying to accomplish.

3) Supporting Stardock/Impulse, actually discourages conventional DRM. Maybe their system could be better, but they are doing an excellent job of juggling their interests, with the interests of their customers.


Personally, I've come to despise physical media. I've seen more disk failures in my life than I care to count, some of them irreplaceable.

I don't think we've perfected anything yet, but I do believe strongly enough that Brad and Stardock -want- to find the best solution, that I will patronize them until they either find it, or give up. But I'll still play my Dominions, oh yes, yes I will. ;)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Hmm. I'm coming in late on this, and think I posted before about it. But the Stardock system should just be licensed, and then Shrapnel could use it. The two sites seem to be on good terms with each other (running each other's ads), and the Stardock DD method is very good.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

His opinions are great, I also refuse to use steam. And have had numerous problems with games I bought and copy protection.

Another point, DRM does not work. Steam has already been cracked. (And will be cracked again and again each time they put in new DRM). The only people who are bothered by DRM are legitimate users. Pirates (the computer kind) just crack the DRM and play the game. If the DRM prevents them from mutliplayering, they set up their own service. If the content of the game is on the game servers, they create their own 'shards'.

Yes DRM prevents some piracy, and causes some pirates to buy the game. But some people also refuse to buy DRM. And DRM increases your customer support. And as an advanced computer user it is pretty irritating to not be able to play something because you installed a few decompiler and debugger tools.

(Take that horse! *kick* *Smash* Die you dead horse!).

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

There is a difference between DRM that requires the kind of online verification AstralWanderer's links and something like a serial key the way Dominions does it. The first one is far more obnoxious. The second shouldn't be much of a hassle for anyone who is a legitimate user.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

If you take the view that DRM is to prevent piracy then it will always be considered a failure. But that is also true of any protection scheme whether its for programs or real life protections, or even laws for that matter.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Surely the purpose of DRM is to make money for the people that create it?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Yes but 90% of it isnt against pirates. People complain that DRM only stops legal owners. And that is true. Because most of the control is purposely against "casual copying". The good-buddy sharing of games. As long as it stops that then its done most of the hopes of it.

Like any control or law or protection, anyone can say "it doesnt stop anything". But if you think of its goal as making it as hard as possible for as many as possible for as long as possible then it makes more sense. And its to make it clear where the line is drawn and when a person will be breaking the law. Same as a fence, or a lock on the door. Doesnt really STOP anything but I wouldnt stop using them. :)
The big battle of writers of DRM is against writers of backup softwares.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Gandalf, sadly even casual copiers now have access to crack sites, and bittorrent. So for the mostly computer savy youth, it is easy to find a crack and to copy.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

But you would be surprised how many dont.
Ive seen it happen in user groups, corporations, military organizations, charities, just about any large group of people. A casual thing would happen but a clear "you are crossing the line" stops it. Even in computer copying. Ive often seen it come up as "let me have a copy" or "put it on all our machines". When it doesnt work for DRM someone will say "but you can download it off crack sites if you want" and many people will back off. Suddenly thats a line they wont go over.

Maybe not "computer savvy youth" but adults anyway.

Gandalf Parker
--
"Ive noticed that our hats get whiter as we get older."
"You mean our hair?"
"No, I meant our hats."
(its a hacker thing)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Anyone with even slight experience of the pirate scene knows there is no reliable copy protection to date, and dominions certainly isn´t bullet proof in any way. IMO it is very wise of illwinter/shrapnel to not make it available for download.

IF there was a central server requiring an account for multiplayer (like WOW) there might be less negative impact from going the download route, but it would hardly be worth the effort and element of regulation that would have to be imposed on the MP community.

If, I don´t know but if, dominions isn´t available from the major pirate sites the reason is probably not it´s copy protection but that it is too niche to keep seeded for long.

All in all the current strategy of physical distribution + frequent patches + copy protection is probably the most efficient. Personally I guess the frequent patching required for MP is the key ingredient but what do I know?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Well if it's available from the major pirate sites, or isn't only because it's too niche, the lack of a download option really isn't stopping much is it?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Yes it is, because it is kind of hard to get going without the manual. I have noticed that one of the most usual questions from undercover pirates in these forums are those asking for a downloadable manual.(I lost my manual blah blah...)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I don't think it would be that much of a problem for a pirate site to let people download the manual together with the game.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Im amazed that anyone thinks "its pirated so why bother" works as an argument. Thats like "thieves get in so why lock your doors"

Besides there are many pros and cons of DD.
You should see the impact on Shrapnels servers when a new patch is released.
Can you imagine the load when a long awaited full version sequel.
Even the demo of such a game is a problem and thats with many other servers helping make it available.

Also, one of the many requests for DD comes from people overseas who dont like to wait or dont like the questionability of their postal service. Do you think that overseas download will help that or create a digital version of the same problems. And as Ive said, tracking broken downloads to allow restarts is a major problem.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

The lock argument is equally flawed. You lock your doors so it takes longer for them to break in or it makes more noise so they are more easy to detect. It also depends on other social values. A locked door in a large busy city is good anti theft prevention. In the middle of nowhere a lock will not prevent thieves. The locks are only part of the security.

But of course you know that you shouldn't compare locks to copy protection. Pirates (or the better term would be hackers/crackers) have all the time of the world to work on a crack. They can do it from their home. No chance of detection. So in the end they will crack it.

I don't know if you have noticed the recent GTA debacle? They had some very advanced and nasty copy protection in the newest GTA. With a lot of stealth copy protection, after a few hours the controls would freeze, or act wierd. And a lot of other different things. But the game is also very buggy, I'm not saying that these bugs are related to the DRM. But it would have been better to spend the money that was now spend on the DRM, on improving the game. It took the pirates a week to crack this new copy protection.

But there is no doubt that piracy costs sales. I only wonder if copy protection really helps to prevent this. If cp is cost effective. I personally don't think so. BUT, I'm an industry outsider. And I have no data to back up my claims. And I don't really trust the piracy numbers that some companies use as an anti-piracy argument. (The music industry piracy losses are so high, that piracy caused the current recession)

More ontopic, of course the position of shrapnel on digital distribution has been clear. And they used the best arguments possible, imho. They did the math, it would not be profitable. They used science! Science, it works *****ez! I think this could be more clear in the FAQ.

I like the hat colour quote, Gandalf. My experience with youth and younger adults (>30) differs. Most either pirate, or use open source products. The crack site line, does not really exist here. But that is of course my experience. A lot of people still like to pay for stuff that they use. And I know a lot of people who donate money to open source products, help with open source products, and buy stuff they pirated before because it is that good. Of course, my experience is mostly university students and graduates. So I guess your hat really gets whiter when you grow older. (And as long as I still am a student of my university, I can use a lot of different software packages for free).

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Actually I lock the doors to keep out the multitude that would walk easily in without locks. Some of which would do so without realizing that they werent supposed to. Thats how I look at copy protections also.

Ive also known quite a few kids who would not cross the line and go to a pirate site for something that foiled them at casually copying it.

And I wouldnt say "no chance of detection". Im a netcop and forensic consultant. Ive had my fair share of involvement in busting hackers, crackers, s-kiddies, wardialers, wardrivers, unlockers, and pirates. And the sites that go with them. :)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I have personal experience from living in the middle of nowhere, and I can say that a lock will do a great deal to prevent unwanted visitors. They COULD break in when no one is home, no problem, but only people who can think "I'm going to break in and take a look" do that. Most people don't want to think of themselves as burglars, so they won't do that. Going in to "see if anybody's home" and "I thought nobody would miss this" isn't an actual "theft", it's just, well, something that happened.

As Gandalf was saying, locks and copy-protection might only slow down a professional law-breaker, but for the common man, it both marks the difference between legal and illegal and forces them to take their time and think if they really want to break the law.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Guys, all that "The manual mustn't be available as PDF so it can't be pirated" is rather moot, since, well, in certain shady sources it is already available. So...?

I have heard of a friend of a brother of a cousin that was using the pirated version of the game and reading the manual while waiting for his game to deliver.. he decided the game's worth the buy after testing anyway (we have to admit - without the manual, you don't have a clue what's happening in the game, not even with the tutorial).

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

"friend of a brother of a cousin" is presumably a friend of a cousin?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Only for games which require that you may only install the game exactly once with the copy that you bought and which adopt a DRM scheme for that. This game allows you to install and play the game on more than one machine, but not at the same time - you will get penalized for that in MP gaming. So, for this game it's not an issue at all.

While I can understand that Shrapnel doesn't want to provide direct download options because they don't have the technical means or because it's not profitable, there is no technical aspect that would be a problem to make the Dominions series available via direct download.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Except in implementation. If you provide a code which allows a person to download to any machine, then you are back to allowing "casual copying" between buddies which has always been the main reason for DRM. Not pirates. As people say, you cant stop pirates.

Same with the docs as pdf thing. Just because pirate sites have it doesnt mean its worthless to protect it. As long as pirate sites openly declare themselves to be pirate sites then they arent much of a concern. But making it possible to get it from non-pirate sites would be disastrous to any effort to control it.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Why does it make a difference where the file originally comes from? In the end, either legitimate customers will get it with their product, or they will pirate it from one of various different sources. Most copying this day isn't done "from a friend to a friend" (although you gave protection as a means to inhibit that one), but just by spreading it over the web.

Yeah, I know, the "casual copying" will be avoided, but then it's just again the old game: The "good guys" (that would maybe just hand a friend a copy) get their DRM/protection stuff, and the anonymous masses in the web use an unprotected version of the game....

That's not meaning I'm a big fan of digital distribution - I will sometimes consider it for "small" investments or "small" games/tools, but not for games/programs I might also use/"need" in the far future where I might rely on certain servers to activate my product. Yep, I know, there are different methods, but in the end I hate all DRM and tend to use cracks on my original products where they help me with "comfort".

Anything that is less comfortable than what the pirated version offers is a bad thing IMO. Treat the customer friendly, don't try to limit him.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

But the current version allows a person with the CD to install it to any machine as long as they have the key. They're allowing "casual copying" between buddies now. They can't play MP together, but that wouldn't change with downloading.
The only difference is that it would be easier for buddies who aren't physically close to copy.

Personally I don't really care, but some of these arguments are silly.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I don't understand what you're saying, or what your point is. The game as it is now does not depend on the CD as a physical medium to be present in the disc drive itself when installing. For machines that don't have an optical drive, I just copy the files on it over the network. The authentication of the game copy happens by the user when he starts the game the first time after installation, by typing in his serial code. Exactly the same could be done with a copy that has been downloaded over the internet.

As long as the game manual hasn't been made available for free download, other sites won't be able to offer it for free, too, and will refrain from doing so. Making it available then will be no less illegal than it is now.

What I've been saying is: There is no technical detail to the game that forbids digital downloads.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Yeah, but that is distribution. That doesn't stop a cracker from destroying the cp. Those tactics also stop hackers/etc from distributing programs without cp.

I disagree with you about the casual copying stuff, and the locking stuff remembers people that they break the law argument. As my experience totally differs, people that I know in the middle of nowhere hardly lock their doors. But I have no other experience than personal experience. And in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't count. So I'll let that part stand, and stop discussing it.

(Perhaps I don't have problems with downloading cracks, as I have a lot of games for which I had to download a crack to play the game I legally bought. I also have had games which shipped without a manual. Somehow, most support people don't believe you when you say the game hasn't shipped with a manual, and it takes ages to even get a reply. (Not to mention that the turnover rate of game companies is rather high). So for me the line of illegality of going to a crack site doesn't exist).

And downloading a game from the internet is not illegal in some countries. Offering it for download is. The problem with downloading is a moral one, not a legal one. (Yet). It is of course still a issue. But a totally different one.

Good point, it remains illegal. But as soon as a pdf file is offered as documentation by illwinter it will be in a moral grey area. It is clear that is illegal and immoral to give away the code to the game. But it will feel less immoral to only give away the documentation. "It is not the game right?". "I'm only sharing the documentation, which is useless without the game. So it isn't a problem, right?". Right now the position of illwinter/shrapnel is very clear. Sharing the manual is illegal, and they don't want it. A pdf manual would be useless in comparison with a irl manual. So that is why the manual is not provided in pdf. Seems pretty clear right? When they now start to offer the manual as a pdf, it will be a less clear statement.

Personally I doubt that a pdf manual would be useful. It is way easier to search in a normal book. I love my manual, I doubt the pdf one will feel just as great. And if you really want to have a pdf manual with your hardcopy one. You could always download one of a pirate site. In most places it isn't illegal to download stuff you already own.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I like the hardcopy manual too, but it's much easier to search in a pdf. I've paged through the manual many times looking for things that a quick Find command would have found in seconds.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I found the multiple indexes in the manual rather easy to use actually.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Stardock's system is actually exactly backwards from this. Since you must be logged in to your Stardock account to download/apply your patches, a pirate has a very difficult time enjoying their stolen product on even an SP level. Meanwhile, they have made statements that if someone downloads a game they purchased, on multiple machines in the same household, that it doesn't concern them so much if multiple people play off of that same purchase, though they "prefer" if only one person plays at a time.

Granted, unless you have an "always-on" internet connection like cable, there is some degree of inconvenience to this. However if you have constant internet access, then the DRM itself becomes hidden beneath the same patching process that you would endure for any game - but totally without requiring physical medium, or even a CD key.

I think that if it were feasible for Shrapnel to use that model, it could work fantastically for them. However, any company that doesn't make the leap to a system like that, is going to be in some way hampered by their need for some sort of DRM. One thing that I learned early on, with the Commodore 64, was that no DRM at all meant free copies for all. :p I was just a kid, but I learned very quickly that most games kind of sucked, and that I could never afford to wade out there and figure out which ones I liked, by simply buying every new $40 title out there.

Personally, I think that cost of media should relate to usage. So maybe it only cost you $5 to download something, then there would be an ongoing "subscription" fee, probably with a hardcap (if not a softcap that drops to a few pennies at the late end) at the eventual full price of the media. So if you grab a new game, and you find out that it is either incredibly shallow, incredibly short, or unappealing to you, you are not out a large sum of money, and as long as you use their web dialogue to uninstall, you won't pay full price for the title, and you can pick something else with relatively little risk. This would enable two factors to change the quality of games we see on the market - first it legitimizes the concept of "software returns", where your $5 initial download fee is like your restocking fee, but you aren't forced to eat a $60 loss for the worst game ever, and second it shifts the focus away from flashy, but stupidly short games, as if 90% of your players are just done with the game in a week, you will stop earning revenue very fast whereas a game with long term playability like Dominions would generate an ongoing revenue stream for years.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Mm, quite a statement to make. Have you access to Stardock's accounts to back this up? If not, I would suggest such confidence to be misplaced. The most successful companies in the games industry can be brought to their knees within six months by poor decision-making, difficult trading conditions or actions taken by others (e.g. Interplay, Looking Glass, Black Isle).Company bankruptcies can be sudden and dramatic. Even with a well-intentioned CEO, there is no guarantee that customers would be allowed to continue activating products. It would be up to the creditors/administrators to decide this and it would seem more likely that this service would be cut (in order to save costs) or customers made to pay extra to continue activation. Shamus Young's Authorization Servers article has more discussion on this.I think I understand very well what Brad is seeking to accomplish. He's trying to make "his DRM" seem better than "everyone else's DRM". However if you check the implementation of Stardock's activation (an installation keyfile tied to a specific system) and the changes in terms and conditions they have already made (most notably, the imposition of a re-activation fee if they think that software has been transferred - see point 3 of this post), this should show that the downsides for Stardock's consumers are almost identical.Any system where multiple products are tied to a single account leaves customers open to digital blackmail at a later date (via annual or even monthly fees levied to keep that account active). Whatever Stardock are like now offers no guarantee as to how they will behave in the future. If there is any guarantee it is that companies will act in their own interests and should that involve bringing in a regime of regular payments by hook or by crook, then that will happen.

However, as Impulse sells games with "conventional" DRM, supporting it really isn't likely to make any difference.

Impulse has another specific disadvantage - it requires .NET Framework which not only makes it a slow application but one which adds a great deal of bloat to the Windows Registry (1.2MB - most other software adds 50KB or less) resulting in either reduced performance or greater memory usage, depending on whether that data is cached or not.The two times I've had CD failures were due to my not having installed no-CD patches (and hence using those CDs excessively). As long as CD/DVDs are kept packaged away and only used to install software, they should last for decades - no download site has this level of surety. The key thing is that software longevity is (almost) totally under the customer's control.

DRM-free software (like Dom3) is certainly the best choice, but media-based DRM involves less risk for the consumer than any online DRM.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

While the companies produced great games, I don't know if any of them were financially successful before their bankruptcy. At least Looking Glass wasn't, according to this article. It does describe high risks of game development and especially self-publishing game developers, but AFAIK Stardock is still making money from their non-gaming software and that should help them quite a bit.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Which is where Stardock differs from most other indie game publishers/developers. Their business software is their backbone, allowing them to venture into the game side.