Re: New Finnish OOB
 

I bet you mean infantry based TOEs now?

For the 1950s - 1970s I've used the TOEs from various sources - from Upseerin Käsikirja I, II, III to HarjVahv A1 and to tank unit manuals from those times. But one has to remember that much was written on the pages of these manuals that could never have materialized (and the manuals state this too!): The weapon amounts do not take into account the lack of these weapons and big number of units. A lot would have been ad-hoc in its nature if troops would have been mobilized. This is why I've included a number of sections with different weapons mix for the early times...

The REAL TOEs for war time troops (mobilization information with names and weapons in store for them) are not available of course.

If you wonder about the section sizes and lack of certain units in formations, this is because I've tried to keep the platoon sizes correct while keeping the number of sections playable. An example:

Joukkue 91 (Pasi) without attached FO section:
-Platoon Ldr
-Platoon Sgt
-Medic
-Messenger
-3*section of 7 men (in 3rd sec there is 3 man APILAS patrol that works independently most of the time + 4 men)
(-3 Pasi drivers)
=25(+3)

In game its now 3 sections of 8 men and 3 man AT-patrol = 27. This way (in game) you have a platoon that is battle worthy and has allmost correct number of men with the tools the game provides. I did have the "correct" platoon TOE in the early versions of this mod:
-4 man "Platoon Command Unit"
-2* 7 man Jaeger Section
-4 man Jaeger Section
-3 man AT-Patrol
-> This way the platoon was not battle worthy in the game, as only the 2 full sections had enough firepower and staying power in the game world, where enemy units consist only of "fighting sections".

Did this answer anything? If you have something specific in mind, please be more precise with the question. In short, yes, I've used numerous "official sources" (that have some contradiction with each other, and are not 100% "realistic", hence the name "HARJOITUSVAHVUUS" - TOE in which the troops practice during peace-time) and I have also edited them for best balance between real world and SPMBT world. And yes, there may be a lot of typos and errors in there, so if you have something specific in mind, please go ahead and post me and I'll see if there's something wrong/missing etc.

PS. Next version of the MOD should be available this weekend and it is for 4.5 of SPMBT :)

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Newest Version (6.2) For Winspmbt 4.5 Is Ready And Available At The 1st Post In This Thread!

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Due to changes in Russian OOB in 4.5, the scenarios have some issues... Will fix soon!

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

You'll need to check them both with scenhack AND manually becasue any unit that was deleted and replaced with something different may not be picked up by scenhack

Don

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Roger, thanks!

Re: New Finnish OOB PATCH V6.2
 

THIS IS THE PATCH FOR FINMOD V.6.2:

FIXED:
-scenarios with Russian/USSR OOB work now correctly

CHANGES:
-all BMP-2s now use the new and better looking icons from SPMBT v.4.5
-CV9030FIN armour rating revised: slightly lighter armour, price dropped a few points
-improved PKT sound

ADDED:
-new CV9030FIN icon
-new PKM sound
-new 40mm AGL sound

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Great job! Finally a proper sound effect for the AGLs.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Wow thanks Zipuli:)! Good work.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

A small update of what's going on:

OOB has seen some slight updates:
-added 2 new sound files for 35mm Oerlikon AAG and 23mm ZSU-23-2 AAG
-some minor fixes here and there in the OOB -data

But the main beef is:
-A new campaign in cooperation with Ulf Lundström, taking place in autumn 1996, when Vladimir Zhirinovski wins the presidential elections and decides to invade Finland as first step in his pursuit of the Russian borders of year 1900. Campaign will play some 10+ scenarios long with player commanding an Armoured Battalion (org 95) in attempt to first push the enemy back across Kymijoki, and then counter-attacking from north to create a Motti east of Kymijoki..
-Finnish map pack of approximately 15 new, big and accurate maps from the campaign area (Elimäki area and surrounding area of Road 6 from Kouvola to Luumäki, plus few other locations such as Artjärvi). The maps naturally don't need the mod to work
-some new scenarios

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

The campaign introduction:

"After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the new Russian state is in disarray. Corruption is ever present, politics have not much power over events, the currency is worthless and worst of all the Army is in shambles. Boris Jeltsin, a national hero of a sort was elected president, but achieved little more than a reputation as a drunken old man raving about in the duma, appointing relatives to most important offices. This lead to a rise of radical, hard-liner politicians and communist admirers and a strong sympathy towards them during the second presidential elections in 1996. But no one expected Vladimir Zhirinovski of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, an ultra-nationalistic party, to win. Yet he did so after making an alliance with general Lebedev, behind whom the army stood. To distract the russian people of the catasthropical state of the country, Zhirinovski starts to pursue a policy to reunite Russia with the borders from year 1900.

In the north, Russia's neighbour and WW2 adversary Finland watches the development behind its borders with little enthusiasm. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Finnish policy was no longer that of balancing between west and east in opinions, and the radical leftists from 1970s are no longer the loudest voice. But still talking of the war between Soviet Union and Finland, and the alliance with Germany is a taboo. When Zhirinovski approached Finland about his agenda of giving Karelia back to the Finns and offering autonomy in the new Russian state, he was not taken seriously. This was a grave mistake, as Zhirinovski was gambling with high stakes. He needed a succesful war to make the Russian people proud of themselves and to assure the world that Russia still is a super power. The Finns watched astonished as the Russian head of state started threatening president Ahtisaari and the Finnish goverment to subdue to his will. At this point Ahtisaari did his best to reason with Zhirinovski but failed.

In summer 1996 The Finnish Defence Forces ordered to start mobilizing some of the most important units under the name of "additional refresher training for reservists". In Russia this cautionary act is taken as an act of extreme aggression, maybe even a sign of preparing to take holy Russian soil in Karelia by force. The Russian army soon masses forces on the Finnish border, something that surprises the whole world as no one believed the Russian army was in condition to do anything. Yet they manage to mobilize a whole Army to "defend" Karelia. Even with over 50 percent of the USSR era equipment out of order the gathered force is formiddable.

Russian attack on Finland commences suddenly and without notice in July 1996. Advancing along Highways (Roads) 6 and 7 west the Russians learn the Finns are not going to give up without a fight. Casualties on both sides are massing, yet the red steamroller pushes on, finally reaching Kymijoki -riverline, a natural barrier half way on the path to Helsinki. Finns on the east side of Kymijoki have "melted" into the dense forests creating an illusion of being defeated, but it's just part of the defence doctrine. Recovering from the shock, the Finnish Army moves its reserves for a counter-attack. Along the forces is the 1st Armoured Brigade, that was mobilized in Hameenlinna and has been training vigorously for the coming mission. When the order is received, the Brigade heads east to face what will most likely be a bitter battle with expectation of high casualties. Already the Finnish soldiers on east side of Kymijoki have started sissi (guerilla-) operations to harass the Russian flow of supplies and to tie reserves in futile pursuit to stop the ever increasing number of attacks along the highways.

You are in command of 3rd Battalion, 1st Armoured Brigade (3.PsP/1.PsPr). And you know that the brigade you belong to is in key role when deciding the fate of Finland."

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Sounds very cool. I am looking forward this :-)

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Greetings!
Sorry it took me this long to answer about the TOE. My work seems to hinder my leisure.
Second apology to all of those who are liguistically challenged (politically correct term:p) since I wrote my reply in Finnish. Originally it was word file but this wouldn't let me attach it due to 19,6kb limit:doh:. So, here it is in text.

Periaatteessa kaikki Suomen joukot ovat jalkaväkiorganisaatioita, jopa PsPr ei ollut todella panssariorganisaatio johtuen jv:n ja psv:n keskinäisestä suhteesta. Uusi MekTstOs on nyt luultavasti ensimmäinen lähinnä tähän kategoriaan kuuluva.
No, se siitä.
Ennen vuotta 1991-92 oli prikaatit nimetty Pr(vuosiluku) tarkoittaen organisaation perustamista. Esimerkiksi Pr90 oli tällöin JPr:n nimitys. Vuoden 1992 jälkeen alettiin käyttämään nimikkeitä JvPr, JPr, ValmPr (Pr05) jne.
Tietty määrä näitä perusprikaateja oli ja on varustettu määrävahvuudella esim. JvPr määräksi on ilmoitettu, lähteestä riippuen, n. 11 kpl. LKP:ssä ei puolustusvoimat tunne ad-hoc tyyppisiä mobilisaatiojoukkoja vaan kaikki on suunniteltu ja varustettu ennalta. Johtuen materiaalin määristä, eivät kaikki taistelujoukot tietenkään voi saada uusimpia varusteita mutta nämäkin joukot tehtävineen ovat ennalta suunniteltuja. Nimikkeet ovat mm. : paikallis-, vartio-, torjunta-, linnake- ja rannikkojoukot.
Itse kokoonpanoasiaan palatakseni., Pr80 (1/80-12/90?) kokoonpanosi ei vastaa winmbt suh-teutettunakaan oikeaa kokoonpanoa. KivJ (mobhack numero 959) kuuluisi olla: 3xJvr ja 3x 55 S 55 partio (0+2), nämä partiot on joukkueeseen kuuluva Kvskor (1+6) mukautettuna peliin. Lisäksi Jvr:än ei kuulu orgaanista 55 S 55 vaan KES75, joka muuten on peliominaisuuksiltaan eri kuin KES88.
KivK (960) organisaatioon ei kuulu FO platoon kuten ei myöskään komppaniatasoinen AT section (pst-ryhmä), lisäksi KrhJ (109) on kaksiputkinen johon myös kuuluu KivK:n orgaaninen Tjpartio.

Valitettavasti en ole ehtinyt kammata muita organisaatioita läpi, toisaalta huomasin että JvP, joka on pienin itsenäiseen taisteluun kykenevä yksikkö, kaipaa kaikilla tasoilla tarkennuksia alaisiinsa yksikköihin. Esim. en löytänyt yhtään pataljoonan EK organisaatiota.
Tähän liittyen havaitsin että scenaariot jotka tulevat asennuksen ja päivityksen mukana ovat suomalaisten joukkojen kohdalla, sekä organisaation että ryhmityksen puolesta aika pielessä.
Jos on joskus aikaa niin päivitän nämä paremmin toimiviksi.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

First of all my humblest apologies to those unable to read Finnish. If anyone takes much offence (or interest), I'll be more than happy to translate these replies into English.

Kommentoinpa sen verran että pari vuotta sitten opetettu jalkaväkikomppania (80) sisälsi kolmiputkisen kevytheitinjoukkueen, tulenjohtueen jossa kolme tulenjohtoryhmää sekä komppanian PST-ryhmän. Jalkaväkijoukkueessa oli kolme jalkaväkiryhmää joista jokaisessa kessit ja yksi PST-partio (1+2) joilla APILAS. PST-partion aseistuksesta ennen apilasten ostoa voin esittää vain arvauksia.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Greetings Koh,
Let's bring this back to english language. My posting in finnish was shortened version of the paper I wrote but could not post due to size limit for word files.
Anyway, you are right that JvK TOE is like you posted after around 1989-90 when the original Pr80 was updated to new weapons. It was also named JvPr after the changes. Original Pr80 from 1980's was organized as I posted earlier. (source: Harjoitusvahvuudet A1, 1985).
In addition, the other companies in JvP went through some changes as well.
One of these days I have to modify my winspmbt files for earlier Finland and post it here. Still, Zipuli has done good work with the file so far!!

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

-PsPr95 org on perusta Mekille. Sitä ennen suhde oli PsPr orgissa 1 PsvP + 3-5 JääkP + aselajijoukot. Nämä on näin myös modissa. MekTstOs on pelkistetysti vain PsP (95) organisaation mukainen pataljoona eri komppaniavahvuuksilla (10 vaunua vs 14 tankeissa jne.) ja prikaatin aselajijoukoilla... Vaunujen ja JV:n suhde on yhä 1:1
-JvPr ja JPr HARJOITUSVAHVUUDET on eri asia kuin todellinen vahvuus. Harjoitusvahvuus opusten ensimmäisillä sivuillakin jo sanotaan että ko. organisaatiot on PERUSTA oikeille organisaatioille, eivätkä välttämättä vastaa todellista varsinkaan vahvuuksien ja aseiden osalta. Olen pelkistänyt paljon tässä suhteessa. Esim. Kaskeala sanoi melkein kaikki JvPr:t vahvuuksista leikatessaan, että tämä tehtiin sen takia, kun niille ei alunperinkään ollut kuin rynnäkkökiväärit (jotka muuten hommattiin vasta 90-luvulla)
-ad-hoc joukot modissa ovat mm. IT:n ja tykistön muodostamia "torjuntaosastoja" varten, eli eri organisaatiosta repäistyjä jalkaväen tapaan taistelevia osastoja.
-Olen itsekin lukenut ko. opuksen (harjvahv 85), mutta ei liene julkiseen levitykseen, eihän? Kaikki perustuu modissa julkisiin lähteisiin...
-Miten KES75 ja 88 eroaisivat pelissä riittävästi, että se oikeuttaisi kahteen eri aseeseen (ja tuplaisi sitä käyttävien yksiköiden määrän). Läpäisy ja ametit on samat, kaikissa muissa OOBeissa on vain yksi LAW72 sisältäen PALJON ENEMMÄN aseen versioita... Miksi suomalaisilla pitäisi olla M72A2 ja M72A5 -aseista omansa jos ei muilla?
-Kuten KOH sanoikin jo, organisaatio 80:stä on olemassa muitakin "versioita", ja modissa käytän sitä joka on julkisen lähteen mukainen, mutta lienee kuitenkin muokkautunut sellaiseksi vasta 1990 aikoihin (APILAS ja ITKK tulivat käyttöön jne.). Toi 80-90 organisaatio voisi ollakin hyvä lisä, jos jostain julkisesta lähteestä sen lukaisisin.

Ei muuta kuin modia modiin, omaksi iloksi minäkin omani tein :)

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Asento!

Lepo.

Here's the updated OOB for Finnish troops, combined the goods from both sides, the old Zipuli OOB and the 5.0 OOB. For any apparent mistakes just reply below and I'll fix them. Most, if not all the armour ratings come from version 5.0 and this should be 100% 5.0 compatible. The extra troops are just where they are. If you want the images and the icons in place too, install Zipulis package first. Without it some of the icons and pictures are missing. The texts are next on my list, so I'll move them around if they're in wrong positions. However, my priorities are currently elsewhere.

As usually, "This mod contains highly altered or additional files that may or will cause interference with the master game files and it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that this mod be installed and played ONLY in a separate copy of the game and NOT run from the master game."