Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well at least he's still alive. Feeble minded now maybe, but can maybe still block the fort wall good.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Fellow pretenders, I'm clearly toast and I suspect Kailasa will have all my lands shortly. I'm also leaving the country for two weeks of vacation starting on the 27th. I don't think I'll have much access to email at that point, so someone should probably switch me to AI at that point (I don't suspect anyone would enjoying subbing for me). Despite my blunders, I've enjoyed the game. Good luck to those who remain!

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

You did well kruton. You couldn't have done much better in your position. It was fun fighting with you. Have a good time on your vacation.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Take care kruton.

Good luck in your future games.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Good luck on the next one, kruton. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Not that I should be one to demand an inactive guy set to AI, but Lanka did request to be turned to AI and staled last turn.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Sorry. I'll do that now. Let's see what global his god puts up...

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

His God is long gone. And his last army will be this turn as well no matter what AI does, so it makes no difference.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, I'll set him to AI this evening in any case. Would have done yesterday evening, but my internet connection crapped out at the precise moment I pressed the send button, so it didn't get through. It's new goddamn cables today... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Edi, careful - if you set him to AI using the same CD key as you used to play your own turn, either your own turn or the AIing will fail due to a CD key violation.

Let me know (by PM) if you need me to do anything, e.g. delete the AI-ing 2h file.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I did not manage to send that one yet. Like I said, the connection crapped out in midsend. The thing is that I've done the same twice now, first with Niefel and thenwith Tien Chi, set them on AI and my own turn orders were executed just fine despite being sent from the same install and the nation turned AI the same turn (in TC's case it also put up Wrath of God...)

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

It's an interesting thing the the first four nations to be defeated are generally considered strong nations - Vanheim, Niefelheim, Lanka and Tien Chi, and that most of the remaining nations are considered to be underdogs.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

The reason Vanheim got knocked out early, or one of them anyway, was that he wasn't prepared for a lightning immune SC with awe, high fear and fairly basic equipment. That banged up one of his main armies fairly well and he also got into a two-front war.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, it was fun as long as it lasted. I just got owned. In the immortal words of Private Hudson, "Game over, man, game over!"

The turn 45 army size graph should tell everyone everything they need to know. Congrats to Carkaton on wiping me out. There's no bouncing back from that catastrophe. All because of a stupid miscalculation on my part. Oh, well...

So, if anyone is interested, it looks like C'tis is casting legions of wights to build up his armies even though he hardly needs them (didn't need them against me anyway). Right now I'd peg him as more powerful than Abysia and if he manages to take all of my territory, he will be, hands down.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Edi it was nice playing with you. Hope to see you in some other games as well.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I'll be hanging around until the bitter end, there's just nothing I can do to avert it anymore. So, open invitation to grab as much of my provinces as you can. I'm not going to leave C'tis any infra if I can help it...

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I got lucky that I was able to take on your two armies one at a time with my main army.

You played it very well given the research and gem gap. I was hoping you'd keep quiet while I took your lands, but I guess this is what I get.

Hope to see you in a future game where you can get your revenge.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Take care Edi, your strategy was solid, you just were unlucky to be bordering C'tis and me, both of whom were ideally situated.

Better luck in your future games.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Thanks, Darkstone! Not so much caught between you and C'tis but The Sniffler player buggering off with a case of sniffles at his first defeat without saying anything and allowing C'tis to take all of his stuff uncontested. I should have attacked C'tis immediately then and the story would be very different. But what's done is done and that's it.

Well, I'll have my revenge, as you should expect, Carkaton, when you see the next couple of turn reports. If all goes as planned, you're going to have your work cut out for you trying to pry me out, as I intend to dig a deep hole, crawl inside and pull the entrance closed behind me... *evil grin* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Abysia and Kailasa are free to place forging orders as they please and Ulm will try to meet them as much as possible. As long as I have my forts, it's a full on garage sale, but for stuff that requires fire gems I need the materials provided.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Can we delay hosting for 24 hours? I won't be able to play my turn today.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Already apologized in the PM, but for the future: hosting delay requests to be put in by Friday afternoon at the latest (for timezone GMT+2, which is Finland), because I'll probably be away weekends so that I can manage my turns on Friday evening, set any hosting delay and then come back on Sunday afternoon/evening and do the next one.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Can I get a 24 hour delay this time then? I will be traveling tomorrow and won't be able to do my turn.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I'll postpone the hosting.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Could I get a 24 hour extension this turn please.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

If it hasn't hosted yet, I'll extend it.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Hosting of turn 51 delayed by 24 hours.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Abysia staled and is not responding to PM's. If he does not return, this game is as good as over. It probably is anyway.

Regardless, I just want to give a big congratulations to psycho. Although my PMs with you have not been friendly of late, I applaud how you conducted your gameplan. How you steamrolled Lanka with what I imagine is perfect timing. I saw your main army on a couple occasions with my scout, that same army would have crushed me as well at that time.

Diplomatically, you lulled me into a sense of innacurate superiority. You remained overtly friendly to me, while slowing my progress by assisting ulm. The amount of assistance and how much it helped was probably not that much, but it is a great lesson learned that I hope to use in the future. Although your timing of nexus was a bit early in my opinion, the message is still clear. You won this game. You earned it.

Now I'm not going to surrender and quit yet. I have a few toys that I want to play with first. When those toys are gone and most of my land is, then I'll bow out.

But if Darkstone returns, or finds a sub, we might still have a game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

This is not the first time that Abysia stales and I expect that we will hear from him soon.

Carkaton, I watched your assault on niefel castle and I doubt that my main army would fare well against yours. You were pretty strong yourself at that time and are much much stronger now. This game is nowhere near finished.

My assistance to Ulm was very small, practically nonexistant which I now regret. I thought that you were my friend and I acted accordingly throughout the game. You are the one here who is the master of diplomacy. You had several brilliant moves. Like the gesture of sending me three skull mentors (which I didn't ask for) on the turn when you declared war to Ulm. You wanted to be sure your back was safe while you picked on Ulm. And it was not needed because I respected our NAP the whole time. If you win this game it will be mostly because of your diplomatic skills.

Even this post of yours is an excellent example of your skill. Your post is a public attempt to get Abysia to fight against me. The idea (which is very clever I must admit) is to present me as the biggest threat and to gain Abysia's add, when it is clear that you are really the most powerful nation in the game. My arcane nexus may be a potent spell, but your well of misery has been running for quite some time now. I imagine you have loads of death gems. You certainly have plenty of Tartarian as well (I've seen a few). And the darkness you are about to cast is much more devastating then the nexus, which at least is not a spell that is destructive to others.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

If the skull mentors were not needed it was hardly a brilliant gesture. If my post was an excellent example of my skill, why is it so transparent?

I wanted to keep us closer to parity when I was ahead, knowing that if I did not I could not count on you as an ally. That was my clear intention, not just a stopgap gesture to insure my northern frontier wouldn't be invaded by you in the next few turns.

When you surpassed me however, it was not in your intrest to keep it close. Throwing up the nexus with Abysia still alive, you effectively gained half of both of our non astral gem incomes(if he is going to come back and spend them that is) while getting half price discount on every one you spend. That is so far out of parity that I can not compete. Well of misery is not in the same ballpark as nexus. And utterdark was never going to be cast by me as I do not want to draw the ire of both you and abysia, which would be the natural reaction. Even if I cast it now, you'll have a good idea of how many gems I used to cast it from nexus and it will be dispelled by your massive gem income almost immediately.

Add in the fact that Ulm is still alive and doing an excellent job holding out while I am going to be forced to play whack-a-mole with his flying pretender. This gives your army a chance to sweep through Abysia's lands and take much of everything while I am bogged down.

I had talked to Edi, begging him to surrender his lands to Abysia to keep a chance at a balance of power in this game alive, but he wants you to win. Rightly so, since you were friendly to him, but it drives a further shift from parity from us.

Finally, I agree the game is far from over, but the outcome cannot be denied unless Abysia comes back. Even though I doubt he has the incentive to see this through, since I would most likely win if you don't. Chances are he is not too fond of me because I had a firm chance to ally with him turns ago. He was more fearful of your astral magic than my death magic, but I could not break our previous alliance in good conscience and had to take my chances. When those chances turned to 0 this last turn, I could not stay in alliance in good conscience.

I'm not trying to act like you are an ***, I know that I am the guy who backed out of my word here. But parity, at least an illusion of it, in a temporary alliance in a zero sum game is absolutely necessary, or the alliance will naturally fall apart. I'm not playing for you to win, as you aren't playing for me to win.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Between the two of you, it is not yet a decided game by any means. Depends on what each of you does with it. I've talked to both of you by PM and at this point I have no secrets left as such.

The place where the game went south for me was when Sniffleheim simply abandoned the game without even bothering to go AI or informing anyone so we could have gotten a sub. I had a NAP with him and didn't check the staling data, which Carkaton, my ally of the time did, thus getting all of Niefelheim's territory.

I should have attacked him at that point without warning, as it was essentially a betrayal of our alliance not to share the information. I'm not bitter about that, but this game would look decidedly different at this point if I had not made the mistakes I did. So I got boxed in, fell behind in research and by the time I got my stuff together, it was too late, C'tis had too much of a lead. A stupid strategic error on my part resulted in the complete annihilation of my main army when he took the province behind me and all of my combat mages died in retreat. Lost well over a dozen of them that way, all with equipment.

The province with the trolls helped me in the early game and has staved off my defeat by a turn or two. Losing my pretender earlier was not a big deal, since he was already mute and feebleminded by that time and recalling him got rid of those two afflictions, which was lucky on my part. Another thing that helped me was having Mother Oak up as long as I did, which allowed enough gems to arrange for the Gift of Health, which turned out to be a stroke of genius and really put a crimp in C'tis's plans when he had to spend a significant portion of one army just to take down my trolls.

The reason I am so friendly with Kailasa is that we have no common border and no hostilities and we've done each other some favors trading items and gems earlier, sharing intel and other small things like that. Aside from some common moves against Vanheim in the early game, I've had little or nothing to do with him despite us being nominal allies.

Another thing that might have turned the tide on a lot of things is if I'd had access to a single astral mage earlier, because it turned out that some of my provinces (one in particular) were crawling with useful astral sites. Finding the Library of Time 20 turns earlier would have made for a VERY different strategy on my part.

Right now I have disproportionate influence on future events due to all the goodies I've got around and the gem stash I'm sitting on because I have no useful way or even capability of spending it that makes any difference to my ultimate fate. So I can give an advantage to someone, but it does not mean the game is decided. Both C'tis and Kailasa have ways of fighting that will make life very, very difficult for each other. Abysia's disposition is really what will decide this, since he has more useful tools to fight a death nation than an astral one.

For C'tis and Abysia the best course is to crush me as quickly and thoroughly as possible while simultaneously attacking Kailasa and trying to get the Nexus down quickly. For Kailasa, well, I do not have a realistic assessment of his capabilities except for the pretender, no idea what mages and other things. My grasp of the monkey nations in general except for Lanka is rather weak.

So, let's see for a while yet. If Abysia looks like he's not coming back, I'll postpone the hosting so we can see if anybody wants to sub him.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

If I remember correctly, you had rebuked my alliance offer Edi, taking just the NAP. Even still, I doubt I would have said anything about Niefel's leaving. In hindsight, it's something I'll never do again. It cheapened everything I've accomplished since. At the time, I had thought I had earned them by making him quit. But there's no such a thing as who deserves anything in this game. I do apologize about that.

I will say this though, I remote summoned all his provinces after his second stale. I was planning on doing that even if he had continued, feeling confident enough that I had him pinned to his capitol. It's impossible to be certain, but I like to think I would have ended up with Niefel's lands anyway, but probably would have lost a lot of mages and time if he had put up a good last stand. Which would have given you a bigger window to strike.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Could be we made no alliance and I misremember. That's always a possibility. It's been a long while. I think it might have been that I said I do not want a formal alliance to attack him immediately since Van was still alive and kicking and that would have allowed him to put a dagger into my back. It was also with the assumption that Niefel was still in the game. Doesn't matter much. Like I said, I have no hard feelings. Live and learn.

If I'd known about his abandonment of the game, I could have had several armies over the border in very short time, so we would probably have had a race for his capital. But no worries. It's just a game, so once this one is done, we can always sign up for others where we can avoid the things we did wrong in this one. I've made more than my share of mistakes.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I did not say that the mentors were unneeded, just that they were not asked for. They were some sort of a bribe. Carkaton, we were not evenly matched, you had a big lead in both research and gems and it gradually increased. The nexus is an attempt to gain up on you. At the moment you are still much stronger.

I agree that we should not continue this game without Abysia. If Darkwind doesn't show up, we should search for a sub. Also I would not like to plan and play my turns without knowing what side Abysia is on. Abysia will probably decide the winner.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Edi: I just checked the message archive and you said that you welcomed an alliance and NAP. So I messed up there. I'm not sure how I responded because the forum doesn't save reply messages, only original ones. If you have it still, i'd like to see it.

The reason why I remember thinking we weren't in an alliance is pretty clear though, that you didn't want to get involved with a niefelheim war due to their NAP with you. Then Kailasa became friendly and traded with me and my direction of expansion was set.

In hindsight I would have gone the other direction if I didn't get confused, the only reason being that kailasa's heat scales would have been much better than your cold scales on my lizardmen.

Here's the original message(prior ones were in game and i don't have that far back still on my email):

LeafNosedBat - NAP & Other things

From: Edi

Hi,

Regarding the NAP and alliance in LNB: Ulm would welcome such a development. Vanheim declared war and we are slugging it out right now. Van's dominion is ORder 2, Sloth 1, Cold 1, Luck 2, Magic 2, no idea what sort of pretender. Vanheim's capitaal is in province 60. Abysia is located in the southern part of the map and has asked for NAP.

I currently have NAP with Niefelheim and do not expect that to change. I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I'll try to keep Vanheim contained and expand at his expense. Otherwise the danger is that I'll be caught between the rock of Niefelheim and the hard place of Abysia with nowhere to go. NOT a place I want to be...

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Psycho, I knew where your main army was, I did not need to bribe you. As soon as you declared on Lanka I knew my northern frontier would be relatively safe. I mean it is a bribe, but it wasn't one that I thought would prevent an immediate backstabbing against ulm. I did it as an attempt to keep you happy so that Abysia and you wouldn't team up on me in the end game. Nothing really devious or diplomatically brilliant about that. Oh and if you check your message, you did say that they were not needed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I know that 27 research a turn is not that much and did not give us parity, but I was extending a gesture to try get it closer than it was. I was not going to shut down research to let you catch up, and I knew as soon as you killed lanka that your gem income would catch up.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Don't worry about it, Carkaton. Mistakes happen. I checked my end, it seems like it was that we had more than a NAP but not quite a full blown alliance.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Abysia staled again. That's two turns in a row now, but even more importantly he hasn't played for 6 days, since both turns were prolonged. I don't think we should continue until we find a sub for Abysia.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Damn. I tried postponing it this morning just before it hosted, but apparently it didn't go through in time. I forgot to do it last night because I had to deal with connection trouble.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Just a brief overview of the situation for the new player: Ctis is currently the most powerful nation (with Tartarians) and is fighting Ulm. If nobody helps Ulm Ctis's victory is just a matter of time. Kailasa (me) is the second and has cast Arcane Nexus in an attempt to catch up on Ctis, whose Well of Misery has been working for a long time (and we all know death gems are the best). The nexus has been up for only one turn. I don't think anybody knows much about Abysia position.

As far as I know Abysia has no NAPs, but also no wars. He was fighting with Tien chi, who went AI, but AI did a good job (especially with his immortals) and managed to break Abysia's siege from his capitol. Kailasa just finished conquering Lanka (Lanka and Tien Chi were neighbours) and thus the army on the Abysia border.

Although Abysia is (probably) not in a game-winning position they can largely influence the winner by taking their side (or not taking any sides) in the upcoming Kailasa-Ctis war.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Abysia just has to ask himself this, when there are just two nations left, would he rather face a nation of death that has no fire resistance or a nation of astral, earth, and *water*? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Granted my 25% of my sauromancers also have some water, but not any recuitables with 3+ water.

Oh and lets not forget arcane nexus, commonly known as one of the "I win" globals. The other being utterdark, that although I have the ability to, I publicly swear to never cast.

sheesh i feel like i'm running for office.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Hello, apologies to everyone.

I've been staling and away from the computer for a while, due to a situation out of my control that's family related, well.. specifically my mother.

Sorry about derailing the game, I have two games I'm in, and this one is less time-consuming than the other. I'll be looking for a sub in that one for the time being, and I think I can find some time for this one.

Once again, I'm quite sorry for staling and not explaining the situation earlier.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Damn. I just managed to hand your nation over to the sub we found, Niarg. I can change it back, but I want warning if you're going to disappear again.

Because if you do, I'll just hand it over to Niarg or someone else permanently.

EDIT: And I need your email address so I can change it back. Send it by PM.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I don't mind either way, I haven't had a look at the position yet so feel free to take over again as long as you can play it.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Welcome back darkstone. Hope everything is alright with you and yours. Things here got a little interesting in your absence.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Darkstone, I need your email address so I can change Abysia back to your control. Please PM it to me.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I hope we're not due for more delays, this game has been at a near standstill for a week now.

Anyway now that we are in a lull I thought I'd ask this question, specifically to Edi and Psycho. Since we've had our shares of what ifs and if I could do it over again etc etc, what would you guys say to starting another game together? I don't think my behaviors have made me any friends in this game, but maybe there'd be some good opporunities of revenge?

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Niarg is set to do Abysia's turn and I asked him to do it. as far as I'm concerned, Darkstone is out permanently, because I'm not going to keep throwing extensions indefinitely.

As far as a new game, I've got one hell of a week ahead of me. I need to get five or six months worth of school work done and submit it in just six days, then go before a panel of experts to defend it all so I can get a shiny new system specialist diploma. And that's not an exaggeration either. I've been procrastinating about it because I can use older stuff for the most part, but it's still going to be hell. Two weeks after that, I'm off to Sicily for a week and coming back after June 22nd. So I'm not realistically good for a new game before then. But I'd like another game.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Hosting postponed by another 8 hours so Niarg can get Abysia's turn in without staling.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Ok, I'll send the turn in now.

Darkstone, if you want to keep on playing this game then you'll have to get in touch with Edi before the next turn (53) hosts otherwise I'll assume this is permenant.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Alright, I have sent it. Once again, sorry about the situation.