Re: Tartanians
 

Lucky you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Seems I will be playing LA Atlantis in a team game about now. I'll keep my eyes open http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Tartanians
 

KO - and you're from Sweden for gosh sakes!

Re: Tartanians
 

It sounds like something the modding community could comfortably address until KO and JK get on it.

Funny though, everyone just makes their own nations or pretenders.

Re: Tartanians
 

There are some balance mods, and some "reimagined nation" mods, and an EA Machaka nation, and I did a small mod that added an Anansi giant spider pretender for Machaka... Other than that, it's probably because the nations all have their own themes and stories, and they are very strong. It's like, well, sacrilege... The Code of Illwinter is Law, and we are Not Worthy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Oh, and the hero mods sometimes add or modify the national heroes, sometimes adding additional descriptions or links to other nations.

Re: Tartanians
 

There are variations of existing nations, like Ulm Reborn for example. The thing is that it's usually the new item graphics that pull people into trying out a mod nation. Just fiddling with some numbers doesn't win you friends among the players.

Re: Tartanians
 

Perhaps people are reluctant to mess with existing nations because they feel they are "supposed" to be the way they are? Static vs. dynamic. When KO says T'ien Chi needs dragon kings, does that increase the probability that a modder will add dragon kings to T'ien Chi instead of creating a new nation around dragons?

-Max

Re: Tartanians
 

Agreed.

My EA Machaka nation was mostly made to learn/test modding, without spending time making sprites, before making original ones for the Greyhawk mod (but I'm still so bad for making them, it's one of reasons I finally stopped this big project, with ugly sprites compared to Sombre or Amos ones, it's pointless to make nation mods nobody will use -even me I prefer to play with their beautiful works than to test my own mods :/ -).

Re: Tartanians
 

Yeah,
Astral can summon imaginary creatures or creatures from another world.
Water can have a ritual spell to empower a unit with huge Def that last forever.
Earth creates some improved better golem
Fire or blood could have a kamikaze unit that sacrifices it's self to to kill a SC (like a Tartanian).
Nature could have a more powerful maggots for stronger mages (I do not think this is the best idea, but I am just giving possibilities)
Air could have a powerful spell that will blow the enemy army away (retreat)size negating.

What I am saying is every kind of magic needs a killer spell and/or to make diversity. It can't just be death that makes a army of SC.

PS: although in fairness wish is also a awesome spell

Re: Tartanians
 

Hmm... I wouldn't call a Tarasque pathetic. With a great stat line, about 250 HP, regeneration, recuperation, poison cloud, etc. a simple astral empowerment is enough to complete the 'super beast' with luck and ethereal. With water empowerment you can even get the 'ultimate beast' with breath of winter and quicken self. Since you don't have to buy anymore equipment except two misc, it's not too expensive if you don't go for the 'ultimate' way. You don't even need a high construction for that.
I used Tartarians too, and sure they are powerfull, but after a few fights you can rename them to 'Affliction Lord'. I think I prefer the Tarasque.

Re: Tartanians
 

Have you tried to put a regen ring on a Tartarian? They get quite less aflictions with it.

Re: Tartanians
 

Tartarian : needs nature gems, death gems, a lvl 4 nature caster.
Fairy court : needs lvl 5 nature caster, heals affilctions.

I don't see a problem...

Re: Tartanians
 

Yeah, sure! But let's face it, if you've reached Conj 9 you're not just fighting some goblins. Regeneration is not enough for a SC. Therefore, Gift of health is almost a must with Tartarians, especially if they have expensive equipment.

Re: Tartanians
 

Actually a single or dual astral empowerment makes it very vunerable to mind duel. Not too much of a problem in SP games, but definitely an achilles heel in MP games.

The Tartarians are easily more powerful due to the number of available item slots and they already arrive with magic paths when not feebleminded. It's easy for Tartarians to avoid future afflictions using a single regeneration item and a single luck item. The overall package deal comparrison is why MP gamers use nature gems to GiftofReason Tartarians instead of summoning a Tarrasque.

I'm hoping the upcoming "Shattered Soul" trait will nerf Tartarians to the point where other SCs are seen more often during late game. It seems no one knows the effects of "Shattered Soul".

Re: Tartanians
 

Well the wizard thing is certainly true, but you can also be successfull by just fighting in melee. And Tartarians need to buy a lot of equipment just to get equal with the Tarasque.


Well, my Tartarian had even more and it didn't help. However with gift of health it looks a bit different...


Can't comment on that since the spell doesn't exist in the manual.

But since everyone seems to be complaining, you've probably a point...

Re: Tartanians
 

The spell is Magic Duel, where an Astral mage challenges an Astral mage and boosters don't count. There's enough randomness that you can't trust your S9 pretender to kill every opposing astral mage, but if it's a bunch of S1 or S2 mages against a Gift-of-Reasoned, empowered combatant, that doesn't matter.

Re: Tartanians
 

This may work as a buff for Tartarians with out the whole shattered soul. This could ever work as a global or a random event, the keepers of the Tartarians trying to get them back in their cell. It would work like a horror attack but would go for more powerful Tartarians first, so the more items, the more health, and the more magic they have the more likely they would attack. I have no ideas of what the stats of the keepers would need to be, but something on par or better to a Doom Horror would work. Also if enough Tartarians where in a province the whole province would be attacked, and most likely destroyed.

Re: Tartanians
 

Endo is right... it's Magic Duel. So many spells sometimes the names get mixed.

Re: Tartanians
 

No, the Tarasque is by no means equal to any non-crippled Tartarian. Not by a long shot. You need to play some opponents who know how to use thier units and you will quickly find yourself defeated if you depend on the Tarasque.

Re: Tartanians
 

I completely agree... and hope the "Shattered Soul" trait nerfs the Tartarians enough for us to see more late game strategies.

Re: Tartanians
 

Well, how would the Tartarian be equipped? And no construction 8 stuff please!

Re: Tartanians
 

Uhh... ok clearly you have not been savaged by Tartarians yet so allow me to shed some light on the subject. Tartarians are, for all intents and purposes, like mini-Pretenders. They have great HP, good abilities (being undead mostly), and have magic paths. This means that they can do... well basically anything.

For spellcasting they have easy access to various devastating battle spells: Fog Warriors, Army of Gold/Lead, Rain of Stones, Earthquake, Weapons of Sharpness - the list goes on. The ability to cast any one of these spells utterly blows away the Tarasque in value. But wait, theres more!

Not to mention thier magical prowess, Tarts also make tremendously good SC chasis. They have full slots, are undead so no Encumbrance and various resists, and have great HP. If you dont know the standard SC loadouts, then take this anti-personnel one for example: Frost Brand, Lucky Coin, S.Skullcap, Jade Armor, Flying Boots, RoR, AmA. Again, since you dont appear to have used SCs much, note how extra value is gained from the full slots not only from Flying (which is insanely useful in combat and out) but also the ability to modularly switch out your weapons to get the most bang for your buck - whereas the Tarasque is just forced to bite people or whatever its attack is.

And if that wasnt enough, most Tarts have paths which are awesome for buffing, too! So you can cast whatever of that variety of spells you have available out-of-the-box: Mistform, Invulnerability, Soul Vortex, etc. This makes an already good chasis even more powerful.

Re: Tartanians
 

Don't forget Cloud Trapeze, for all of your spot-killing needs.

Re: Tartanians
 

You can forge 80% of the good stuff at level 4.

Jazzepi

Re: Tartanians
 

not unless you went an SC of doom most of the stuff they get will be from either level 4 or 6 construction, because all a SC really needs to be effective is fear, a couple buffs, high MR and an area of effect attack

Re: Tartanians
 

...and a way not to get killed and zero fatigue...

Re: Tartanians
 

well since undead can't get fatigued that part isn't a problem

Re: Tartanians
 

While we are at it, how would you protect your tartarians from sleep vines? Tarts are undead, but not lifeless (which IIRC grants immunity to sleep), so I assume they will get fatigued from the vines like anyone else.

I am about to get ravaged by a horde of Pangean mannikins and like to trim down the shrubbery a bit.

Re: Tartanians
 

thats why you need a high MR so that the spell does not even work

Re: Tartanians
 

Yes hunt11, I was just contributing to your "all a SC really needs to be effective is" statement.

I agree Tartarians are hugely powerful for the gem cost.

As for sleep vines, well Tartarians tend to be strong mages, not just fighters...

Re: Tartanians
 

ok sorry bout that, anyway any updates on what shattered soul will do

Re: Tartanians
 

manikin ? spell ?

I killed a MR 29 golem with them. That sounds strange. I may have been lucky though.

Re: Tartanians
 

i am facing a 1000 of them. golems should have not been affected by the sleep vines since they are lifeless.

Re: Tartanians
 

As far as I know being lifeless doesn't effect the sleep vines, it's just fatigue damage. MR helps, of course, but considering the number of attacks made by a swarm of vine critters even somebody with a very high MR is going to fail a couple rolls out of hundreds of hits...

Re: Tartanians
 

High prot + high MR with some reinvig can deal with sleep vine critters. But I do mean high, like 30+ in both. And luck, of course.

Re: Tartanians
 

I guess ethereal is no use since vines probably count as magic weapons. Doesnt seem easy to get MR 30+ and still have a lot of offensive power. For example, lead shield will help MR but charcoal shield would be nice to burn the critters.
Jade armor nice to wack them faster but sounds like Rainbow Armor is much better for the MR plus Reinvig.

I'll see what I can do. The horde could strike next turn so I don't have too much time to forge.

Re: Tartanians
 

What about eye shield? No eyes=no attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: Tartanians
 

An SC doesnt seem like the best choice to fight an army of mainikins. Can't you just use like a boatload of archers and flaming arrows?

Re: Tartanians
 

He will use darkness and arrow fend, and I don't have fire magic or high level Thaum.

Re: Tartanians
 

How about Earthquake/Rain of Stones? Any chance of using one of them?

Re: Tartanians
 

Healing doesn't work on undead, you need the Chalice or GoH.