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Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
Yahoo! Marketing is the best. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
I've been gone for quite some time due to internet and computer problems. (That are still ongoing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
So I'll just post my opinion on some main points in this huge thread: >>The ads are funny I think they are mildly amusing, which is more than I can say for most commercials. >>The ads objectify women 1) Pfft. 2) It's not the duty of Shrapnel Games to strengthen the moral fiber of society, they just want to sell games. 3) I don't think there's any problem with ads objectifying women, the real problem is when people objectify <anyone>. >>Gratuitous violence Is awesome. Exploding piles of gore and blood? That's what you call fun! Seriously, these are games we are talking about. >>boys so pretty that they'd make straight men go gay. I'm not gay, but if there were boys pretty enough to make me go gay then I probably wouldn't mind (in the same way I wouldn't mind dying since I'd be dead.) Also, adblock+noscript http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif (so I only saw the first one since it was reposted in many ways) |
Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
When I first saw the ads, I thought they were supposed to be ironic. I thought the women in the ads with Dominions were supposed to be a juxtapose of advertisement that we were all supposed to take as being funny and oddball.
I am really amazed that people are offended and feel Shrapnel games is trying to insult their intelligence. When I see these ads, I applaud them for daring to be different and mixing two completely different things together to draw attention. |
Got it!
To Foodstamp:
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You can call it amazing (which is the best http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), illogical or even perverted, but you shouldn't doubt its efficacy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif And it's all about efficacy, right? (At least so positivist science tells us). And so you probably shouldn't wonder that people who are fascinated by this conquest are less-than fond of overt demonstrations of sexuality... However, this isn't the case here at all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif To All: Quote:
And this is why I both find ads humorous - as they just bring the fact that these "knowing" ones actually just don't care the freck into light - and the humor somewhat sick - as the fact that ones who don't care are considered knowledgable isn't actually THAT funny. Dixi. Hope that it's the last post in this thread. |
Re: Got it!
Check out the new ad guys! I know you will be pleased with the frisky hunk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
But where o where is our beloved Beast of Bog? |
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I think the ninja is pretty ambiguous. But very pretty nevertheless. Is it a ninja girl? Or a ninja boy with an eyebrow kit.
And good thing I was forewarned, and wearing my protective goggles, or I would have caught teh gay from the frisky hunk for sure! Yeah! |
Re: Got it!
That new ad definitely seems to be better than the previous...
Edit: Oh, come on! You reference Gift of the Heavens in a Dominions ad and don't show a comet? Work with it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
Re: Got it!
I don't really mind too much about the ads. Well, I think they're shoddy and poor, but I'm not interested in discussing them particularly. However, I'm really disappointed by Shrapnel's reaction to their customers' opinions here.
I think it's absolutely fair enough to say "you have a right to your opinions, but on this occasion we're going to follow our business model and go ahead with our campaign; we're sorry that not all of you will like it". But the staff have been outright mocking and sarcastic here - why? If someone like Jurri, an important part of the community, is driven away from the forums just because Shrapnel staff couldn't make the effort to be polite and thoughtful, I am appalled. And ultimately it is shooting yourself in the foot, since the community here is, I believe, very important to Dominions' success. Previously I've always been impressed by Tim's responses on the forums. Here I have to agree with Sombre and say my opinion on the company has taken a complete 180. How can you be so careless with your customers' opinions? |
Re: Got it!
I agree with you, llamabeast, at least so far as Mr. Krol is concerned. I have said as much to him, and I am following up with as much 'lambast' as I can in the correct channels. Annette, to me, has the mentality that you say would be 'fair'. The difference in the tone of their responses is incredible and cannot be understated from this customer's POV, at least.
Having said that, the newest ad is a vast improvement over the recent debacle. It honestly looks like Honor Harrington. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
Re: Got it!
With regard to the adverts themselves: I find myself picking up game boxes with attractive girls in chainmail on the front and so on, so there's no doubt that kind of thing works (sadly). I think that, apart from those exploitation arguments etc, the main problem with the old adverts was that they just looked poor. It looked like someone had downloaded a picture of a girl and written some text on in MS Paint.
The new ninja looks much better. I think adverts with at least some marginal link to the subject material are much more effective. I also predict that the male model one will do disastrously. |
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Oh - one sad thing about the ninja advert is that "Dominions" is misspelt. Careless.
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And, while I'm posting away - does anyone else think the ATF girl looks like she's just been drinking milk?
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Oopsie. We get a second new add. While I the ninja girl is either a girl, or pritty enough to make me go totally gay, the other guy is definitely a guy. And made me remember why I'm straight.
(I also agree 100% with Llama's post, but I didn't want to get involved in an inflamed discussion about the adds, so this will probably be the last serious comment I make about them) |
Re: Got it!
@Llamabeast
Yeah..."Got Milk?"...."Got War?"...get it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif @everyone else If that ninja is a woman, then we need to get her taken off here; that is exploitation. |
Re: Got it!
I don't think I've heard "Got Milk?". Hmm, obviously that one was wasted on me. I thought the sunlight was just catching her lip.
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Re: Got it!
The lack of i " Dominons 3." ninja add is really annoying. I don't mind the others, but that's sloppy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
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Re: Got it!
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Coincidentally, we talked about the "Got Milk?" ad in marketing this semester. In Mexico, they tried running the "Got Milk?" ad which I believe would translate to "Tiene Leche?". What they didn't know was that the literal translation in Spanish is "Are you lactating?". |
Re: Got it!
Perhaps they meant dominoes?
But it is time now to get back to the real problems of this world, like the crappy PD of Bandar Log that prevent it from winning any game. |
Re: Got it!
At first I thought the "If you don't like it, GTFO" response was uncalled for. But well before that, Annette apologized and Tim explained the business reasons for the ads and their success. These arguments were met with "You don't mean it!" and "It's still exploitation and you're all evil bigots." So what exactly is there to say at that point? I guess nothing, which would have been better than an attempt at making light of the situation. Tim admitted that the best thing Shrapnel could have done was to not respond to the thread at all because of the clear lack of any rationality in some of the arguments.
I still wouldn't tell people to get the *uck out of here if they don't like it, but when you're met with that kind of opposition there's really nothing else to say. There are several bad ways to handle it, but no really good ones. |
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I guess I'm not being rational though, in the face of evil bigotry. |
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To state something here that I said to both Mr. Krol and Annette (and received different responses to), it is (theoretically) fine if you don't think the previous ads were offensive. However, the response to the criticism was that 'you shouldn't be offended'. This is equivalent to stating, "I will tell you what your morality should be." As for myself, I will not accept that.
Edit: Just saw 'male' ad. Just as bad (if not worse) than the aforementioned ads. Sheesh... |
Re: Got it!
Are you freaking kidding me? I've been ignoring this thread until I wondered what you guys have been talking about for 15 pages. Are there really so many people with such thin skin?
Even if you don't like pretty girls how in the world does "I don't think that advertisement will be effective" transition to "shrapnel hates us and I'm boycotting them"? Why does anybody suddenly care *so* much about the Shrapnel advertising campaign? Seems like a lot of people walking around looking for reasons to be offended. I mean really, realize that the summary of much of this thread is 1) I don't like ads with pretty women and 2) I'm not going to buy Shrapnel games because they ignored my opinion on their advertising campaign. Honestly, I have no idea how anyone could be regularly accessing the internet and find *that* ad so offensive, but as that's just my opinion I'll follow that up with a suggestion that you just block/ignore stuff that does offend you...that's how you generally should deal with people who have different values than you do. |
Re: Got it!
The fact that you completely mis-summarized the main issues talked about in the thread shows that you did not really read the thread.
Your first statement is incorrect because I quite like the Ninja ad, so it's not _just_ pretty women. Read my other posts in this thread for an enlargement on this. The second statement is inaccurate because it's not that they ignored my opinion (though they did); it's the fact that I choose not to support people who use such advertising styles. I think it should be considered a given that you should please people who you want to buy your product. As such, I would also consider it a given that people who you displease will not want to buy your product. |
Re: Got it!
No, I didn't completely mis-summarize, I selectively summarized deliberately to emphasize my point. I'm fully aware that you have a reason you consider valid to get on a high horse, my dismissal of this as an objection to "pretty women" was an implication that I find your position both in the minority and fairly silly by underlining that the whole basis of both the ad and the objection is because people like to look at pretty women. The fact that you find this silly reason so compelling as to cause you not just to be unable to ignore it, so important you're not satisfied to lodge a complaint, so vital as to force you to take the action of boycotting Shrapnel is unfathomable to me.
Ok, you didn't like the ad and you're taking your ball and going home. I can't believe that this is such an important issue to you and my suggestion stands that you'll have a much less stressful and more enriching life if you can just learn to ignore the low brow humor of the guy sitting next to you instead of trying to get him thrown off the bus and when that fails deciding that you'll do without bus service yourself. |
Re: Got it!
Thank you Baalz! I've been following this thread (sad I know) but could not figure out how to put my thoughts into words. You have said what I couldn't figure out how to.
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Re: Got it!
Way to continue your misrepresentation Baalz. No-one has demanded shrapnel change their ads, they have simply expressed their opinion of them and concluded they don't want to have further dealings with that company. It isn't because they 'failed' to get their way, it's because they have a problem with Shrapnel's conduct.
It isn't just my opinion of Shrapnel that's been lowered based on this thread. The way people with reasonable concerns are being deliberately misread, mocked and attacked by other members of the forum is just pathetic. |
Re: Got it!
Lighten up everyone
The guy in the new ad is actually KO! |
Re: Got it!
> DryaUnda & Tuidjy:
> > Marketing asked me to inform you that they are listening. Check back on Sunday... Awesome! Now that's what I am talking about! Any chance you guys include the full picture (as opposed of a wide but not very tall one) in the game box? :-) No, serious, that is a damn nice ad, at least for this particular 40 year old gamer. And congratulation for your choice of models, although I do not think that this is the lady from the first ad. Just as great looking, and the exact right expression on her face. |
Re: Got it!
I think it's awesome you guys talked yourself into implied naked male advertising for dominions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
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Re: Got it!
LOL you old hens.
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Please post the click through rate on the male ads.
Jazzepi |
Re: Got it!
I am sure it is skyrocketing out here in San Francisco.
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Re: Got it!
The problem as I see it one one of a lack of context. The "offending" ads showed a sexily dressed woman with the text of "I want my dominions 3". Now We all know what is meant by that but We are in the know. Imagining it from an outsiders position they wouldn't have much of a clue what was being sold although on this forum they would have to presume it was a game. "Dominating women? What?"
This imho is one of the main things which differentiates this ad from other ads which use sex as a selling point. Beer ads at least show ladies drinking beer/being around guys drinking beer. Car ads are almost always accompanied by well, a car. The ATF ad was used as an example of "Why don't you have a problem with this one then?!" and again I believe it is context. Foxy lady but she is in a helmet and holding a firearm. While I highly doubt your units in that game resemble buxom blondes it at least implies that the game is combat oriented. (Sorry, I haven't played ATF, maybe it does have buxom units!) Remember, sex sells, but stay away from implying you are selling sex. I'd bet that if you had the same model slinkily sitting by a computer you'd have gotten horny monkey hoots of approval There is also, for me at least, a bit of a disconnect selling dom 3 with sexiness as the game has uhh no sexual references whatsoever. (Unless you are playing Pangea in certain eras, sexy ladies don't come up in dom 3. At all.) A bit of a perhaps weak argument for being baited and switched but whatever just trying to think up some viewpoints. All a long-winded way of saying that it just doesn't jive with the game. Oh and you folks frothing negatively about this should take a step back, drink a beer or suck on a popsicle and relax as it really isn't an earth-shattering thing. /5 cents |
Re: Got it!
You know how much a waste of time it is to tell everyone on an internet forum how you dislike this or that? Tell everyone what your morale opinion is? It's a damn waste of time, lock this thread so people can get a life.
For freaken sake, this is an internet forum, you don't know anyone you are talking to, yet some of you want to waste time getting angry, arguing... |
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It wasn't totally pointless as we now got a frisky hunk to look at. That is what we wanted, right? Right?!
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I liked the old ad better.
I agree with argitoth though, even if I have a slightly different point of view. I find the discussion and endless trolling about things that don't even register as trivial matters for most people rather funny. |
Re: Got it!
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Ehehe, these ads sure are causing a lot of conflict. Thank god we finally have gender neutrality in the ad-world!
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I suggest we all simply stop posting about this. It's become a sour topic. I remain disappointed by Shrapnel's responses, but think it really isn't important enough to let it damage our enjoyment of the game or the forum. After all, Shrapnel aren't really that important to the game as far as we're concerned - they ship the game to us and give us the forum, and that's it. KO and JK are the important people, and they remain legends in their own time.
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Re: Got it!
I agree with Llama. I have expressed myself on this topic and it isn't worth me arguing about it further.
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The travesty has ended
Well, it looks like Shrapnel has pulled all of the new ads but the "Kill Bill" one now. Thank you for that. This year's April was a really long one, huh?
I didn't get the time to voice my criticism on the ads appropriately, but you know my position on this. My biggest problem was that it was just a lame way of advertising. Like many others already said, the ads didn't have anything to do with the product and they just looked plain unprofessional. The girls were certainly hot, but that "I want my Dom 3" line looked as if some teenager just created his first banner for his Myspace page. It certainly was not in line with the usual quality of your other ads. Now all that remains is the samurai one, and that's fine by me - at least she is holding a sword! Honestly, chain mail bikini's are cool in my book. As long as an ad for a fantasy themed strategy game like Dom3 looks anything like it, okay. Edit: Oh no, wait. Smiling surfer dude is still with us. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif |
Re: The travesty has ended
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It would be just as valid for me to conclude from their looks that the chicks in the previous adds were obviously passionate wargamers. As clearly, from all the women I know that I have seen scantily dressed and look that hot, not a single one was not a wargamer. With which I obviously proved the relevance of the first set of adds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif |
Re: The travesty has ended
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Re: The travesty has ended
Paul Walker took a lot of time out of his schedule to do that ad you know.
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Re: The travesty has ended
I never heard about the empty set as scientific terminology, but it does sound a lot like you're on to me. Don't tell anyone else though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
And in fact, the set isn't quite empty, but a sample size of one doesn't prove that much, does it? |
Re: The travesty has ended
I've said pomo is a good way to interpret this add.
additionally, now that I think about it, Rizter's work on American worship of consumption may offer some insight. He long reveled over the reverence with which we treat advertising; it is as if an advertisement is some sacred symbol in our cult of consumption. Advertisments that do not make sense or seem bad to us are some kind of sacrilege. The minimalist Dom3 add of a suggestive woman and stark simple "I want my Dom3" breaks all tradition with "wargame ads" and does not compute with people who look for some kind of universality and centrality in their cult of consumption; thus they find it offensive. Notice to those who dislike it, it isn't the hot girl, it is that the ad makes no sense, or doesn't have anything to do with dominions. |
Re: The travesty has ended
I saw a Dom 3 ad with a woman in it again today. I thought you guys were on top of this?
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Re: The travesty has (not) ended
It seems that there is a neverending supply of lascivious looking female war gamers who are jonesing for Dominions 3.
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Re: The travesty has (not) ended
Yeah, I like the new one with the lascivious looking woman. It's quite nice.
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Re: The travesty has (not) ended
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