OM NOM NOM...
 

...all the time.

Seriously. Try hiring a bunch of the researchers and keeping 'em in your capital.


(Recruitment pitch for Ashdod: "It's safe to come out now. Really.")

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

I just played a game at Growth 3. Things were doing ok until some of those gluttonous heroes showed up. I didn't need them in battle (when I saw how powerful the initial expansion and PD were, I decided to win without attacking anyone) and left them in my capital. Pretty soon I noticed my capital population was way down and soon it was zero.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Seriously. I have a test game running now where I don't use Melqarts/Repahiites. Pop eating is fairly manageable as their researchers aren't quite so flesh hungry, but even just 1 son added to a handful of mages started slaughtering my capitol pop en masse, even with G3 on.

My first test with G3, I could get to 3 Melqarts in my cap with before they negated the growth. I found it interesting that it seems that basically you can't do a sacred strategy and expect to see the real late game. You will either win before you are summoning Lords, or you will get your *** kicked for being too aggressive. Look at it this way, even a province with 10k pop at G3 will stop growing with a single Melqart in it. A squad of 3 Melqarts and 6-8 Rephaiites must move constantly, or begin systematically ruining your nation.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Or of course they could park in one province and ruin *it* until you call them out for the war. You don't have to let them eat the whole nation.

-Max

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

But if there's no pop, there's no supplies, no? And if there's no supplies AND no pop, they will in fact starve....? I guess maybe if you pile them all in one place with 10 healers..... That doesn't seem right though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

they do not need to eat, they just like to eat

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

You could always throw a couple of supply items in, but more importantly, Commanders don't starve.


Though apparently these guys will eat each other...

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Yeah, poor healers. No resources = no wood to cook them = raw meat = diseases = no healers & sick giants.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Well, the Melqarts NNE, but is it worth going for an expensive dual bless, and then not using the incredibly strong Rephaiites as well?

< shrug > I am still confused how these guys survive once they've eaten every living thing in their vicinity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

That's why Hinnom has nature magic -- so they can easily Summon Animals for them to eat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

I haven't played with them, but it seems to me as long as you're actively expanding with them, they shouldn't be a problem.
Don't let them sit at home eating your people. Keep them invading your enemies. Eat them.

I don't think it's a nation suited to turtling.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Well right, I wasn't trying to imply turtling per se, but their research capacity is rather mediocre, so as I said, it just seemed to me they aren't too well suited to the late game in MP. Basically looks like they either just bulldoze through and go for the mid game win, or they get countered or suffer ill luck, and stall out and eat themselves while other people start their endgame summons.

Anyway, just saying that's what I see in my SP test, that a dual bless leaves you with scales that are tailored for only one thing - a bless rush. Honestly I don't think Melqarts are the way to go for MP. The test I am doing with chariots had me expanding nearly as quickly, but able to actually get research moving, and having pretty strong scales since I wasn't using a strong bless, and could get by just fine with an imprisoned pretender. The problem with that being that their chariots, while stronger than elephants, are still easier to counter than Melqarts, so you are still ultimately taking a risk if you intend to go for a late game strategy with 3G and otherwise good scales, to push for Lords. Even with a Fountain of Blood, blood hunting is a bit cumbersome since your blood mages eat pop. It's a complicated set of checks and balances that seems far easier to manipulate in a sterile SP setting, than it actually will turn out to be in MP.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Thats what I said all along Jim... = ) The chariots are the critical early game expansion.

I think you actually have to take a somewhat balanced approach here.

I do something like a 496 bless, with an oricle, leaving dominion at 4 - you can't afford to build more than 3 sacred anyway until way late at any location until well into the mid game.

The 496 build is cheaper than a 99 dual bless, and it lets you have good enough scales for both a + on growth and a positive on research.

With only a few commanders etc - and with a positive growth scale, I haven't seen any eating. But I happen to think this might be a cool new empower method.. so thats what I'm going to be experimenting with.

Sadly, I just resigned out of my test MP game, for personal reasons rather than game ones - but the giants were able to beat Vanheim bless rush even up.

Chris

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Which units actually eat pop off ?
Is it only the huge commanders or every single "stock" unit except the 3 cavemen types ?
Will they eat pop if you have enough supplies ?
To what extend will growth 3 counter the pop devour ?

Is the faction considered inbalanced ?

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Rephaite Warrior (cap only sacred)
Kohen (priest commander)
Melqart (cap only commander)
Ba'al (cap only mage)

..and the various heroes. The rest are OK.

Yes.

Depends on how many you have, and how big the province is. Growth 3 gives a percentage growth factor, while the population decrease is a fixed amount per unit. A small population would be more affected (percentage wise) than a large one. See Edi's database (devpop column of non-combat bonuses) or the wiki for specifics (amount varies by unit type.) I'm not sure if the devpop values are directly correlative to population decrease, or if there is a scale factor (i.e. not sure if value of 30 for devpop = population decreased by 30 / turn.)

It is by some, but the fact that devpop now increases unrest, and the starting army size has been reduced, has nerfed them somewhat. They're definitely still on the high side of the power graph, though (they just have some more disadvantages to deal with.)

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Epic necro btw.

On topic- Balance wise Hinnom has been heavily nerfed by CBM, along with a number of other rather overwhelming nations.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

I play Hinnom in one of current LLAmaserver games. I believe it is still very OP. Some nations have very good methods of fighting against hinnom, but not all. And if hinnom chooses allies and enemies wisely, he can achieve more then most of other nations I believe. Early game - amazing expansion. Endgame - amazing, middle game - amazing is you had good early game.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

And of course Ashdod is even worse, balance-wise. But the Zamzummites are too cool for me to resist, like some kind of cocaine... when I try to play LA C'tis or Agartha or Helheim, all I can think is something like "Hmmm, this would work much better if my Sauromancers weren't cold-blooded. I'd rather have Zamzummites."

-Max

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

lol, Max, you're the last person on these forums that I'd expect to imply that cocaine is too cool to resist!

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

Yes, Ashdod is crazy. I have these sacreds W9E9N6 in one of MPs. You can imagine how it looks like.

Re: The New Hinnom Nation
 

You're right, I would have no problem resisting the lure of cocaine. That makes Zamzummites... worse than cocaine?!

-Max