Re: Summarizing
 

Here's a first draft of a manta unit, for your (possible?) viewing pleasure:

I'd happily add it as an image, directly to the thread, but I'm not quite sure how to go about doing that.

Re: Summarizing
 

Here's the attack image for the manta unit.

Re: Summarizing
 

There should totally just be island sized giant turtles, not that I have any idea how one would fit something like that on the battlefield considering that giants are about as big as it gets, but various landmass-sized sea creatures are represented pretty consistantly throughout history, so it's time they showed up in some capacity.

Re: Summarizing
 

Asp turtles are supposed to be exactly so TheManacer, as even their description states. I wouldn't over-complicate the life of modders-developers with things alredy in-game, even if not in the exact flavour we would prefer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Peace

Re: Summarizing
 

And here are some preliminaries on Triton Chariot and shell-blowers (the latter have no picture right now and the former picture isn't particularly good right now... still, it's the start. And if someone has ideas how to move dolphins in attack sprite, they'll be appreciated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

Re: Summarizing
 

There should definitely be giant sea scorpions.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-scorpion.html

Re: Summarizing
 

Yes, I remember them, but am not sure that they would be thematic for Oceania (and these, by the way, could be used as animated carcasses, unlike ammonites!)

Re: Summarizing
 

i'd prefer too other more tipically "seaish" animals to be implemented rather than scorpions ^^ we already have many.

Peace http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Summarizing
 

Well, maybe not specifically Oceania, but they'd make great underwater independents-undead or not.

I'm definitely all for a larger prehistoric presence in the game.

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Yes ! Crabs ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Summarizing
 

Um sea scorpions, by the way, are "seaish" animals.

Note the use of the word *sea* in their name.

They're not even related to land scorpions, infact.

Re: Summarizing
 

K, k, I was just saying before that, if I must choose between a sea scorpion whatsoever and an orca or narwhale or manta to be implemented, I prefer the big fishies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Summarizing
 

Since consensus seems to be that Oceania's theme is "the ocean fights back", I'm just thinking, why would the ocean only fight back with the cooler and stronger, but less numerous, creatures? Why not give Oceania easy access to a ritual to summon large amounts of your average amphibious sea creature, like a sea dog, as well? Perhaps an aquatic-only version of Summon Animals that summons a few less, but more powerful, units (like Monster Fish), too?

Re: Summarizing
 

I want more "fishy" types too, Tifone, but I'm a fan of prehistoric fish monsters, and I'd like to see more of them in the game-and the sea scorpion was one of the more interesting types.

Re: Summarizing
 

I think the problem with focusing too much on "fishes", is that there was also some hope to bring a little more amphibious muscle to the nation, so the ocean is fighting back, not just defending itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Summarizing
 

We r not focusing too much ^^ There were plenty of suggestions and idea how we would like Oceania able to fight back - look at my "summarizing" post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Some fishes were just suggested by many ppl for flavour reasons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

(plus, don't forget that there r other water nations which will be also attacked by those fishes, as they will provide a good firepo... ehm waterpower http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: Summarizing
 

Oh I don't disagree. But then again, Oceania was never considered to have any glaring weakness underwater, the balancing issue was with their relative inability to wage a successful campaign moving onto land.

I'm not saying I am against Orca or Narwhal or other fun aquatics, just all flavor won't improve the current situation - we need function as well as form. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Summarizing
 

You know what'd be cool? A coral monster that freespawns freaky stinging polyp creatures, as well as occasionally spawning a similar creature that #secondform's into the original coral monster that freespawns more polyps, eventually choking the sea.

As for amphibious creatures that can fight on land for them, how about these guys? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103559/

Re: Summarizing
 

Wait wait wait..... your idea for new units is.....

Henry Winkler and Hank Azaria?!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

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Well, the Fonz *was* known for jumping the shark...

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And Hank Azaria is well known for having gills...

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This whole line of reasoning sounds a bit fishy to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: Summarizing
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilosaurus

Here, you fish lovers!

I'd hate to be scuba diving and run into one of these.

Re: Summarizing
 

Oh, and next summer choose the mountain ^

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Here's a great link for TheMenacer, and anyone else interested in old woodcut monsters:


http://www.strangescience.net/stsea2.htm

Contains tons of neat illustrations-all open source, because they're so old-depicting the natural world from the viewpoint of past centuries' scientists and naturalists.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Basilosaurus is fine, but some Mesosoan creatures would probably be better still. And Plesiosaurus-kin is believed to be able to crawl on land, seal-like... ;)

Size 6 critters of the Mesozoa!
 

Well...the largest mosasaur reached a length of 17.5 meters. That's pretty respectable. They would probably work fine in the game, as amphibious predators, since they looked something like streamlined monitor lizards.

Plesiosaurs ought to be in the game, if only that they're generally considered a "best guess" for the identity of the Loch Ness Monster. Generally speaking, the largest plesiosaur got (verifiably) 15+ meters long. Still respectable, but the fun part is that the BBC reported Liopleurodon Ferox as 25 meters in length and up to 150 tons. It most likely wasn't that big, but it gives enough precedence-as folklore-to give it a justified place in the game. Also, Plesiosaurs were much larger than T-Rex, and better adapted for powerful biting. According to my information, they could have picked up a modern car, and then bitten it clean in half.

Ichthyosaurs were a lot smaller, between 2-4 meters, but they're extremely interesting, as lizards that evolved to resemble fishes, almost exactly.

Their relative, Shonisaurus sikanniensis, is the largest ever discovered marine reptile, at a gargantuan 21 meters. That's 70 feet long!

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Agree, except on Tyrannosaurus point - most Plesiosauri had iirc quite small teeth, optimised for fish-catching, not biting clean through something large and/or armored. While Tyrannosaurus/Tarbosaurus had teeth very good for just such task. Of course, it was smaller - it's land carnivore, after all.
And I can repeat that if we go to mammals than Mobi Dick makes very fine Oceania summon/hero (!) indeed. :)

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I suggested adding a grey whale to Haida Gwaii as a Pretender, but apparently, you can't have aquatic-only creatures on a land province. Although, now that I think about it...maybe a whale totem that had a waterform grey whale? You'd have to teleport it, ofcourse, but that would be a nice balance for an otherwise very powerful SC chassis.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I also don't know much about plesiosauri teeth, I'm just going based on what my few minutes' research is saying. So if you want to look into that and see what you come up with, I'd love to know more :)

And-for sea mammals-I think the Narwhal ought to find a place in the game, as should human/dolphin transformers-or just dolphins.

As an aside: If/when we get the ability to edit the first post in a given thread, I'm planning on presenting a middle-era Aboleths nation based on real-world Mamluk culture. Alongside it, I'll be offering a list of spells for EA Aboleth prehistoric marine creature national summons.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I'll try to get some links - now I'm speaking from what I remember from University years and from visiting Moscow Paleontology Museum.
Narwhal - yes, absolutely. And as you could see, I tried to depict Triton Chariot as being pulled by dolphins. ;)
A Whale Totem is also good idea.
As for Aboleth/Mamluk nation, I would love to see it, even if I don't like Aboleths as such. Probably, if it's ready, you could just post it in Mods subforum? Speaking of which, maybe this thread should be also moved there? ;)

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

It's not ready, unfortunately, although I'll probably post the info, like I have with my others.

And if you move this nation to the Mods forum, it will get even less traffic, and be likely to disappear. Mods forums only get maybe a tenth the traffic the main forum does, sadly enough.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Pity. But in any case I'm planning to add some more here during weekend. Though my art would be as hopeless as ever! :)

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Sadly, I can't look at your triton chariot, since it would require me to download something, but I know I've gotten better, the more I've done, so I think it's likely you will too.

If all else fails, you can always modify an existing image-that can be a real time saver-and it's good enough for modding purposes.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I use this time-honored trick, too. :) But dolphin images sadly aren't present in Dominions currently. ;)

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

no no, I mean you can go to Google, type in dolphin images, and it will give you a list of images on the web. Pretty useful. Then you can just copy the picture into a file, modify it with Paint, Image Forge, or a similar program (I miss my Image Forge), and you'll be all set. All of the prehistoric animals I presented in the Suggestions for New Cave Units thread were done in this way.

It works quite well for many subjects.

A similar trick is to find a picture of a miniature and copy that, then modify the picture like you would any other, in a graphics program.

Thirdly, their are literally thousands of free pixel images (sprites) in the Web, usually pretty high quality. Again, I wouldn't use even the free ones without modifying them somewhat, but they are available.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Understand, though browsing through thousands of pages to find what is needed may be more tiring than making something myself, though it be horrible... ;)

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Horrible or not, it'd still be yours, and still be appreciated-although believe me when I say that people *will* critique it, especially if you post it in the thread. That can be very educational/helpful, though. It was for me.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I'm probably going to redo the Ancient Kraken in the next week or so, as an Ammonite, with new stats...it'll give me a nice break from dragons. I don't want to get burned out on them.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Yes, too much dragons could be harmful! ;)
By the way, what do you say about an idea of Triton Horn Blowers - namely, should they have some additional ability (fear attack, probably)?

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

Can you list their stats for me, here in the thread?

I would say they'd get some sort of banner (morale) bonus. I don't think fear...if anything, awe, but too many units with awe is like too many dragons.

I really hope the Devs will consider adding a "Loathe" (opposite of Awe) ability that causes units who attack a critter with it to risk going Berserk (0) for the rest of the battle, and be forced to attack only that unit-ignoring all others-until they or the unit with "Loathe" are dead, if they fail their save. It'd be a little different from anything we currently have in the game, and be strategically viable.

Re: Suggestion for new Oceana units
 

I think I included them in one of previous posts, but in any case the stats are of good Triton/Merman warrior plus standart. I was thinking about giving them a missile weapon called something like "blow horn", which causes panic(?) in a small area with short range... Cost should be about 15 or maybe 20 in case of such attack added...