Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Hey qm, I just want to emphasize, since tone is hard to intergrate into font, that this mod is teh awesome. Making pretender choice interesting even by itself would merit you a shrine, the masses of great other stuff is just gravy. Wasn't implying I was unhappy witht he mod, just kvetching as a Man player under the gun....

I'm treating this as a discussion thread, but if I'm posting in the wrong place let me know.

One thing I think you might consider for a future version is giving each nation a bless pretender for their natural magic paths. Sort of like the bahomet for mari, but with some variation depending on thematic preferences. If someone is willing to take an immobile pretender that doesn't expand their magic diversity at all, I think they deserve a discount.

For example when I was trying to find an earth nature bless for Maverni, I had either to pay through the nose with an 80 pont new path (greek) cyclope, the 60 point new path nature serpent (who I love btw) or I was briefly envious that some nations get the gorgon, but realized that wasn't thematically much better. I could of couse take the goddess of willendorf... except she's well... as expensive as usual, and my tramplers ALWAYS die. etc. I eventually went with an (imprisioned)lord of the forest, but I didn't want an SC just a bless.... something like the Spirit of Maverni 2e/2n dom 4 would have been lovely even if it costs 75 points or whatever would pass as exorbitant.

Just a thought, and thanks for all your work,


Rabe

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

The serpent and monolith are pretty much as thematic as you get for Marverni pretenders, and you'd have had better results for your points (on an E9/N8 or 9 bless) with the Serpent than the Lord of the Forest.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Just a note:
I notice alot of misspellings in the dm file itself.
Maybe we could get Edi to look at it?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I noticed a number of spelling errors, too, playing in a MP game with CB included. It seems that the descriptions, whereever they come from, aren't that homogenous, too. But I might think that Edi would gladly reject doing any more work. ;) For most things, running it through a spellcheck should work, I think.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Adding new content is a bit beyond the scope of the mod at the moment, but I do appreciate any feedback I can get. Glad you enjoy the mod.

As far as spelling, yeah it's an issue, I keep forgetting to work on that when I release a new version.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Taking so many different modules by different people and getting them to work together is a chore enough. When you are reading thru such adds you are catching modding errors and conflicts. Kudos to you for it. I can totally understand each authors minor spelling errors slipping thru. For someone like that, a proofreader tackling it with a fresh eye would be more effective. Edi has been doing that for the devs and doing a great job (hence little things like descripts and events getting fixed). Thats why I thought of him first.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Barthulf (377) hero of MA Ulm shouldn't have Star of Heroes (173) the armor-breaking morning star. Its area effect can affect him and his bodyguards, and it takes several turns to get the armor repaired even in a mountain province.

Star of Thraldom might work better, or perhaps Holy Scourge (even if it's two-handed usually). It should be possible to mod a 2-handed weapon and a shield to the same unit.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

If someone were to read through the mod and look for spelling errors... in what format would you like to see (proposed)corrections made?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

i always look forward for the next version of the CBM mod and i don't care about the spelling.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Is this mod still usable with patch 3.21?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Yep, I'm pretty sure it is.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

What's the effect of the bug? I've been running around in a couple games with Evening Stars because with AOE5 they are pretty spectacular. Does secondaryeffectalways versus secondaryeffect introduce friendly fire?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

secondaryeffect means the target needs to be hitted (sucessfull attack vs defence strike) to get the effect.

secondaryeffectalways just needs an attack, sucessfully or not the effect will be processed. Thats why the brand weapons are so usefull.

With the misspell secondaryeffect is used (like the item in base game uses).

With a triggered AOE>1 on a weapon/effect you always risk to hit yourself.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Especially annoying with that MA Ulm hero that gets Star of Heroes in CB, and runs around destorying both his own and his bodyguard-Black Knights' armors. And then it takes several turns in a mountain province before their armor comes back. :(

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Thanks! I'm using thugs with a high attack, so I never noticed a difference. They're FR and have regen so I've avoided self-inflicted damage. I suppose if I'd have tried it on a low attack unit like a Golem I might have been disappointed, but the Evening Star's got +6 attack, so it should hit more often than not.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Not sure if this is the right place, but I found a small, almost insignificant bug. Niefelheim giants (the big sacred troops) have their ages changed from 300 out of a 1000 to 22 out of 50, same as humans. It's not mentioned in the patch notes so I assumed it was unintentional, not some nerf of them for balance. Sorry if it's been mentioned already in the previous 12 pages.

Anyhoo, truly an awesome mod. Thank you for extending my enjoyment of the game! :angel

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Given that I'm a big fan of this mod, q.m., I'd like to suggest you to rethink the "Touch of Madness policy" of making it cost a N gem. While Blink is often just annoying and making it require 1 S gem to cast is great, ToM has some important uses.
If the opportunity that the caster himself goes Berserkr annoys you so much you could maybe consider, if you can, to increase the range. But for i.e. a maenad EA Pangaea this spell is almost a must, even with the chance of some random Pan going mad sometimes, so well... think bout it. :)

Just a suggestion ;) I continue thinking the mod is great fun

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Any new upcoming versions of CBM planned? Love this mod! CBM has made my single play experience against the AI much more challenging! Thanks QM! :)

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

i will not go so far as saying "vanilla dom3 sucks" .......
but men, you spoke out of my heart... love that cbm mod.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I dont know if this has to do with the CBM mod or the Worthy Heroes mod but playing as Atlantis the hornblower hero appeared and drowned. I use the worthy heroes mod + burning heroes. Is there a way to fix this so that water nations do not get land heroes that will drown?

Edit: Ah this might be the problem:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36670

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Suggestion for next iteration (and thank you for this, <3 CBM!):

Hidden in Snow and Hidden in Sand are ridiculously too expensive for what you get. Even dropping them to 50 gems may not make them cost effective enough, but still might have people casting them occasionally, from Enchantment bonus sites.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

As has been noted, the Bogarus heavy cavalry Grid and Malai Druzhina have weapon problems. Looking in the dm, it seems you've also used #rec instead of #rcost, so their resource costs are higher than you intended, I think.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I'm having repeated nagot problems with can't open: dogfriend.tga from worthy heroes 1.8, given the only mod I have installed is CBM, and reinstalling it hasn't helped, anyone have advice how to get my dom3 working again?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

CBM comes with that graphic in a subfolder. Are you sure it's extracted properly?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

My CB1.3 still looks like it has these problems, so ... bump? Or do I need to get a new one somewhere?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Maybe there is someone else that is updating CBM? Anyone else out there doing fixes or updates? I would do it myself if I knew what program to use? I tried wordpad but just got jibberish...

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I've fixed this stuff in the CBM that I use (the bogarus cavalry is a case of qm getting the unit numbers confused between the grid and the malai for example) but I don't want to upload it because A) It's easy to fix if you want to and B) I don't want to be uploading alternate versions of CBM that confuse people.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I'm hoping to get out a new version in the next couple weeks.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Oh come on, who doesn't want to join a game that advertises it is using CBM 1.3.005? :p

Then I can make an alternate version that applies a couple of changes, but leaves yours out..... then we can all have 10-12 versions of it, and not be able to tell any of them apart. :D

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Just out of curiosity what program do you open the file with to fix stuff?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Hooray!!! :D

Hey QM are you still planning on updating Worthy Heroes/Burning Heroes as well?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

The .dm files are normal text files with a different ending. Before editing, make a copy of the original CB file. Changing the mod will only affect your personal copy of it, and if you play in a MP game the server has a different version of the mod, the battle replays won't always match.

To learn what the modding commands do, open modding.pdf from Dominions 3\doc. If you just want to change Bogarus cavalry, you probably won't need anything but the weapon command.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

New jomon summons looked at.


Contact Jigami - N1, RL4 - 1 / 10 vanilla. Castability: Very Easy. A Commander summon. A sacred N2 mage. You have N2 mages already though, basically. Some have suggested summoning him for research, which is boring as hell. The fact he has summer power, sacred and ethereality makes him a little more interesting, as does the 45 supply bonus.

Contact Ujigami - E1S1, RL5 - 1 / 8 vanilla. Castability: Easy. A Commander summon. 40% of your Onmyo-jis can cast this. He goes from H2 to H1 if he leaves his home province, which is balls. However with standard 20 he is actually useful to jomon, who have morale problems caused by missile fire. Being ethereal and with excellent stats (for a size 2) he looks like a great thug, but then you see his enc. 7 with the armour. If they were enc 0 they'd be great.

Contact Mori-no-kami - N3, RL5 - 1 / 21 vanilla. Castability: Average. A Commander summon. You'll probably have to boost up to get this, but N2 mages are available. Inside a forest it's a semi thug with ethereal, enc 1 and N3E1 magic. Outside it shrinks and is N2. That's a pretty nasty restriction really and while the N3 is useful for climbing the nature ladder, this doesn't seem great for the cost. They summon three wolves in combat, which is fun but not important, unless against a random assassin.

Summon Kenzoku - S1E1, RL6 - 1 / 9 vanilla. Castability: Easy. A Commander summon. 40% of your Onmyo-jis can cast this. Their stats are better than those of the Ujigami and they have awe 1 instead of priest levels and a standard. As such they're more thugs than leaders, which is a fun distinction. Again though, they have 7 enc with that armour, so it needs to be replaced, making them less budget. They also cost astral. Reduced enc would be great, as would a drop in research level for the two samurai kami.

Summon Gozu Mezu - D3, RL6 - 2 / 7 vanilla. Castability: Very Hard. Your nationals don't have death. While this is in reach of rainbows and you can bootstrap to D3 from very little, the gems just aren't there. You get two troops; ox-head and horse-face. They have soul catchers, which are nifty polearms that cause false fetters on hit. Basically they're non sacred slightly superior demonic Celestial Soldiers. However being hard as hell to cast, they aren't as good.

Contact Yama-no-kami - E4, RL6 - 1 / 28 vanilla. Castability: Average. A Commander summon. You can boost a Master Shugenja to E4 with relative ease. If the yama leaves the mountains he loses power just like the mori. In mountains these are powerful A2E3N2 badasses with solid stats, regen, ethereality, oh and they're sacred like all kami, so they can certainly thug with some equipment. Good, but again overcosted due to inability to function well outside of their chosen terrain.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I just had the Jotun Hero multihero show up. Oddly he came with 2 shields and no armor instead of the Golden armor in the description.

It looks like the new items from Worthy Heroes didn't get pulled into CBM, even though heroes using them did.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Can someone explain me why someone using the Star of Heroes, I'd suppose to hit others, has his armor shattered too?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Presumably because it's been given an AOE > 1, leading to it sometimes hitting himself?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Pronlem with the Ulmish hero? It's really annoying, especially it will take so long until his armor is fixed, and he usually has Black Knight bodyguards who are also affected.

Few pages back, I suggested giving him Star of Thraldom or Holy Scourge.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

LA BOGARUS

Conjuration

Summon Simargl - A1, RL2 - 1 / 1 Vanilla, 1 / 1 CBM.

Castability: Very Easy. With flight and patrol bonus 10 these things are damn near the perfect patrollers. In fact they're basically Celestial Hounds with all the patrol and little of the combat ability. I personally think they'd be more fun if there were lots of them and they had less patrol bonus.
CBM Suggestion: I think bringing their patrolbonus down to 3 and setting them at 2 / 5 would be a good idea - that way they might also be used in a combat role now and then.

Summon Firebird - F1S1, RL3 - 1 / 2 Vanilla, 1 / 1 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. Nearly as fragile as a random hawk and size 3, but with an 10 ap capped damage fire attack - still don't hit very hard. The problem is they're too expensive and too hard to mass given their ridiculously short life expectancy and fairly weak offense. The concept here is a unit which can harm ethereals/elites and is pretty destructive, like a one-off fire spell.
CBM Suggestion: I think they should be given a medium fireshield and firepower 1 (more thematic than anything). The cost change in CBM isn't really enough to help and I believe with the added abilities they still need to be 5 / 5 or so, as they are so fragile.

Summon Lady Midday - A1D1, RL3 - 1 / 1 Vanilla, 1 / 1 CBM. Castability: Average. One in four Starets can cast this, but they will almost certainly have better things to do. Fear 0, flight, ethereality and a powerful weapon is counterbalanced by subhuman stats. Everything about them screams undead to me, yet they are magic beings. With flying boots you can have a commander lead a squad of them around, but they're very hard to mass. They're sort of like downgraded Morrigans though one use for them might be attacking and diseasing a SC pretender.
CBM Suggestion: I'd like to see them at 5 / 5 or thereabouts.

Contact Sirin - S2, RL3 - 1 / 8 Vanilla, 1 / 6 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. A Commander summon. A straightforward flying seducer. Note that as seducers and not succubi, they need to border your territory which makes them less impressive. They do seem to have decent seduction ability, though they are unlikely to kill anything but the weakest mage if they fail. CBM cost is fine.

Send Vodyanoy - W2, RL4 - 1 / 20 Vanilla, 1 / 20 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Remote Commander summon. None of the recuitable mages can cast this, but it is only W2 and provides a W3N1 mage itself, so it could get cast. It's unusual in that it's an aquatic unit with stealth. W3 is pretty useful but combined with N1,.. CLAMS AHOY! It's a really good summon with two big drawbacks in that it's aquatic only and, for Bogarus, very hard to cast. Cost seems ok therefore.

Summon Rusalka - W1D1, RL4 - 1 / 16 Vanilla, 1 / 6 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Commander summon. Like the Vodyanoy, she can't be cast by recruitables but if you get one, it can summon more. She's another seducer, this time amphibious, which could maybe come in handy. As a mage summon she's W1D1 so doesn't grant any new paths and her ability to lead troops underwater only extends to 5 guys, which is effectively useless. The new CBM price is perfect and they are relatively useful when so cheap.

Contact Alkonost - S2, RL4 - 1 / 15 Vanilla, 1 / 8 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. A Commander summon. You get a H3 flying commander with standard 20, so clearly it's good for supporting mundane troops. Bogarus' regular H3 is rarely built after all. A bargain at the new CBM cost.

Summon Likho - D1, RL4 - 1 / 10 Vanilla, 1 / 2 CBM. Castability: Very Easy. A Commander Summon. They can spam curse on stuff and they're stealthy commanders. But there's nothing to them. Curse is annoying but hardly terrifying. I think they're supposed to be used vs multiple elite units, but even there just cursing stuff isn't very helpful. I would never, EVER pay 10 gems for one. The drastic reduction of price in CBM is spot on.

Summon Zmey - F2, RL5 - 1 / 8 Vanilla, 1 / 4 CBM. Castability: Easy. All Starets can summon these and Alchemists could with a small boost. The fact that these are cold blooded is a bit of a pain, but they are offensively powerful and fairly tough. Like upgraded wyverns. Though they have a breath attack their utility is as melee fliers. The CBM price is great and I'd use them at that.

Send Bukavac - W4, RL5 - 1 / 5 Vanilla, 1 / 5 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Remote Indy Commander summon. Even harder to cast than the Vodyanoy. It vanishes after combat and if it wins leaves the province as an indy territory. The unit itself looks impressive, similar to an asp turtle, but due to low AP it's very slow to trample troops and isn't that hard for a group of them to take down.
CBM Suggestion: I think it should be W3 to summon and perhaps even 1 / 4.

Contact Gamayun - S3, RL5 - 1 / 25 Vanilla, 1 / 20 CBM. Castability: Easy. A Commander summon. You get a S2A2H2 flying commander with fortune teller. As a mage summon the paths aren't helpful, but as a commander it has clear utility and fits a variety of roles. It's one of those jack of all trades mid level commanders like the Kinnara for monkey nations. With 30 magic leadership it can lead your middays and firebirds.

Contact Beregina - W3E1, RL6 - 1 / 35 Vanilla, 1 / 25 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Commander summon. Like the previous two water summons, this requires planning to cast. Unlike it's little sister the Rusalka it isn't a stealthy seducer. Instead it has W3E1N2, so it actually does offer a new path in nature. It's amphibious and can bring 10 people underwater with it,.. the problem is it's hard to cast and in many cases the Vodyanoy is going to be a better bet. CBM price makes it a lot more attractive.

Contact Cloud Vila - A4, RL7 - 1 / 40 vanilla, 1 / 40 CBM. Castability: Hard. A Commander summon. Although Bogarus has A2 mages it has virtually no chance of A3 and air is hard to boost up. Cloud Vilas are A3S1N2 so do offer diversity, though they aren't a great deal for that. They are nice flying mages but aren't thuggable unlike Air Queens. They're more comparable with Faery Queens - they have heal 20 instead of 30 and weaker nature magic. They also don't come with sprites. Overall Faery Queens are better and only one research level higher. Cloud Vilas are slightly easier to cast, but not by much.
CBM Suggestion: I think they should be 1 / 30 to reward actually getting A4 and to elevate this national above the faery queen. They do have seduce but I'm not sure how strong it is.

Contact Mountain Vila - N4, RL7 - 1 / 40 vanilla, 1 / 40 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Commander summon. Bogarus has no nature mages. This summons one of course. Your best bet to getting the nature required is by boosting the N2 Cloud Vila. The problem is the Cloud Vila is also hard to cast. They don't fly, are N3S1A2 and are healer 40, twice as good as Cloud Vilas. One comparison here is with Ivy Kings who also offer N3, worse mages, but tougher and cheaper. Mountain Vilas are fragile like their Cloud sisters and slightly worse battlemages.
CBM Suggestion: Again I think 1 / 30. They offer little in the way of paths, but do have some useful abilities like healer and seduce (depending on how good it is).

Contact Leshiy - N6, RL8 - 1 / 60 vanilla, 1 / 45 CBM. Castability: Very Hard. A Commander summon. If you can get to N4 for the Mountain Vila you can probably stretch to N6 for this. Outside of forests he basically sucks with crappy magic and a lack of brawn. In a forest he's a size 6 monster with N4E2A2W1, full slots, a great deal of brawn, regen - plus he can change into a size 6 trampling super bear. He's definitely cool and a powerful SC chassis, but ONLY in the forest. As a mage summon he nets you no new paths. The CBM price reflects these weaknesses and makes a very cool unit more usable.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I don't know if suggestions for CBM are taken here.. but I'd like to suggest the following:

1. Bump up confusion one level. The number of effects for this spell is simply too high - this spell is devestating.

2. Bump umbral down to 6. For any other race a 7 mght be worth it. However, Agarth is not a major contender, and the nerf is a bit extreme.

3. Light v. darkness. Darkness was 6, Solar Brilliance was 7.

If somoene has't researched the SB tree, they can be hosed by darkness for a Loooooong time.

I don't know if the code monkeys could hack this, but another spell, whose effect was merely to cancel darkness (aka no retina burning) at a lower level, would be welcome.

Make it cost a gem, so people dont just default cast.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Documentation problem:

CBM 1.3 lists Axe of hate as Defense 14.
Its actually damage 14.

Suggestion:

Decrease cost of Acashic Record 5 gems.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Most of the bows ranges and ammo were increased.
Bow of Agonizing Death was not.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I think Acashic record is balanced as it is personally chris :)

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Wouldn't these comments make more sense in the CBM 1.4 thread?

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

I've never heard of the Bow of Agonizing Death.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

It's right under the Tome of Uncomfortable Truths.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

It's used by the Lord of the Desert Sun. Or the Lord of the Summer Plague, one of his brothers. The lion headed *******s.

Re: Conceptual Balance 1.3, updated documentation
 

Ya know they probably would, had I known such a thread existed =)