Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Hey folks, I've noticed that hosting has been set to quickhost @ 24 hours. Is this this intentional?

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

No, I must have lost the preset hosting time when we restarted. I'd just assumed everyone was being timely about thair turns... I should have known it was too good to be true. I'll reset it to the originally announced turnaround now.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Hey guys! I'm going to be gone untill next wend.

If the game could be postponed, I'd appreciate it :)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Sure thing. I'll let turn 4 get generated, then postpone the next hosting as required.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Marg staled last turn, can we get a confirmation that he's still in the game, as early drops kinda make a mess out of things normally.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

A PM has been sent. AlpineJoe has been logging on, so hopefully he'll read it shortly.

If I get no response, I'll post for a sub.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Welcome back, Unoptimized!

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Just to check, are we going to switch to patch 3.23?

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

We're on llamaserver, and as can be seen elsewhere on the forum (here, in fact) llamabeast has already patched llamaserver to 3.23. You'll need the patch to run today's turn.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

And there will be many 'cheating' messages which can all be ignored I think.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

There's not much point taking them seriously, as far as I can tell.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

One question, what are the rules on diplomacy?

Binding or Backstabbing?

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Hmm. I didn't specify, did I? It'll have to be the forum default then - I read that as being closer to binding than backstabbing.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

"Forum default", as I've known it, is never binding. This game isn't set up to enforce such contracts. That said, unbroken NAPs depend on how much people put stock into being trustworthy and honorable.

In theory you can always announce to the other players that some person broke an NAP, and people usually do. However, such announcements don't insight action on the part of others. They often get ignored and people tend to brush it off as petty squabbling.

If you really want to get assistance against someone who broke an NAP, the better way is to address his neighbors directly with PMs. This individualizes them and encourages action on their part. That's not really enforcement though, that's actually just good old fashion diplomacy. Still the best weapon in you arsenal.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Well, that works for me.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I don't think NAPs should be utterly binding unless clearly stated as part of the game rules and in this game it wasn't. But anyone who would like others to know about someone's treacherous conduct by telling all should feel free.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I don't see how it's even remotely possible to make NAPs utterly binding without the devs adding some code to enforce it.

It is as it always is, break a nap at your own risk to your reputation.

State naps publicly if you really want the extra 'protection' of course it's a good idea to make sure your partner wants it stated publicly as well ;)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

The devs have no interest in coding such enforcements. They have purposely neglected adding in any such feature because they personally don't like it.

That said, there is a conceivable way to enforce it. Not in this game though. You would have to mod a game and create an overpowered nation. This nation would then be controlled by a moderator who wouldn't actually participate in the game. The nation could then be set in a province with no borders and cast down judgment using remote spells or teleportation. The moderator could not only enforce public NAPs, but also cause arena fights using a national version of the wish spell and hand out worth while rewards to the arena champs.

Another alternative is to play with people you know personally and agree to collectively beat on the guy who brakes an NAP.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I actually did play in a game like you described (was dom2 though) but the moderator wasn't there to uphold naps, they were there as part of the larger narrative of the game (and to provide additional defense for victory points).

But yes, you can create artificial to deter people from breaking naps, but my point was more that you cannot do anything to actually stop them from issuing the orders.

That said, while I am not a nap breaker myself, i am a bit more relaxed in my attitude towards when they do get broken, though there better be some powerful extenuating circumstances for the justification. Rarely would I consider there to be justification in a last demigod standing game though.

So yeah, no worries about me in this game :)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

A way to make enforced NAPs without mods would be to have the game organiser enforce a penalty on a NAP-breaker.

He could change email and therefore withhold the .trn file from the offender and enforce one or more staled turns; as a step further even access the .trn file himself and pay the victim gems or gold from the NAP breaker's treasury (although not if he was playing himself as he'd also get unfair advantage info on the nation); he could give the offender's .trn file to all the other players so they'd know exactly what he had; in really severe situations he could simply kick the player out and get a sub or turn it AI.

It's not impossible they could do a rollback when a complaint was made, access the turn and either undo the attacks or enforce a stale instead, but it's much less fuss to to create a punishment far worse than any advantage gained by the NAP treachery.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I would never play in a game like that Agema. Far too much room for abuse and I cannot imagine how much people would whine and complain about it.

Still it could be done, but it still doesn't stop people from breaking the nap in the first place, only penalizes them after the fact. Only some kind of coded alliance system could do that, and we're not getting that :)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I think that the opportunity for treachery is what makes diplomacy. I can see games played against the AI benefiting from some type of enforcement regime, but a pure MP game benefits from the unpredictability of human behaviour.

The consequences are apparent enough with in the game; no other player would be inclined to trust the backstabber - most likely leading to an eventual gang up on the now diplomatically isolated nation. Besides it just doesn't seem right for baby eating Lanka to be constrained by a little bit of paper...

Self regulation is the key. Let the games unfold as they will.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Yes, I mostly agree, although I do think if people signed up to a game where it was stated that NAPs were considered binding in metagame terms, you'd be making NAP-breaking cheating, and only cheats would do it, so it shouldn't be too bad. The punishment only really exists so people know what's coming to them if they cheat, and therefore sort of acts to reduce arguments.

Although obviously what was and wasn't acceptable under NAPs would also have to be totally clear, and I think you're right that there could be a lot of arguments anyway. Imagine if stealthy preaching was banned and you found a stealthy priest in your territory - the other NAP player could say he was just moving through or scouting and not preaching: impossible to resolve without an impartial 3rd party. Ideally the host would not play and be a referee, so he can see the 2h files when there's a dispute and know exactly what's happened if a complaint goes in.

But by and large it would be lot of trouble and effort for little gain. Personally, I'm not in favour of binding NAPs, but I think players who wanted to make it work could do so.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I'm going to be gone from March 27th through the 30th so as this is already a slow game I'm hopeful that a little longer down time during that period will not be too much to ask for.

Otherwise I will try to find a 1 turn sub, but sometimes that's not so easy to do.

Thanks

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

If things don't speed up, I doubt we'd even notice your absence.

It's possible AlpineJoe has disappeared, in which case a sub/AI would be called for.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Cancel that - he's still putting turns in.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Ok, so tonight may be my last night to put in a turn as we may leave tomorrow evening to beat a storm, so don't plan on me being able to play another turn until late Tuesday.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

No problem - keep us posted :)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I understand this game is suppose to be slow and all, but I don't understand why we extended the turn for players who wait until the last moment. The only person who asked for an extension, to my knowledge, is licker, and his turn is in.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Oops, I'd thought licker was TC when he's actually Caelum. In which case, the postponement is hereby undone.

As per originally, the turn will generate at 17:35 GMT.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

"*%ç"£! Fthagn these Indys! Iä! Iä!

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I'm back (if you even missed me) but could use 24h to get the turn in as it's so late now I don't want to bother doing anything screwy in a rush.

Are you Man Cupido2?

If so, yeah, @#$@$#ing indies ;)

We should talk though :)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Man? Fthagn? R'lyeh n'gwuluh!

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

The turn still has ~27 hours left to run, licker. Do you need more than that?

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Nope it's all good, woke up early (damn jet lag) and sent it in.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

My sympathies. Last time I had jet lag it was after a flight from NZ->UK, and that knocked me out for half a week.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Hi guys,

well with easter coming up i need to let you all know that I am taking my self and the family away for a week. (much needed mini holiday...)

I'll be leaving good Friday 10th April and returning the following Friday, the 17th. Would it be possible to get a week break in the game turns or...?

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

hEad, I'll be leaving too from the 11th to the 19th, so a break would suit me too. (although I should be able to connect to the web on the 13th)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

It's fine with me.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Hokey doke, I'll put a delay in at the time.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Thanks alot! :)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

So many knights...

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

So true...

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Grats to Unoptimized to Rushing me with Ermor and doing a good job for dom-killing me. Gath is now on AI.

Only other three games to run, yay!

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I'm off early in the morning (10th) Back next friday (17th).
Hope you all have a good Easter.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I reckon so. Have a good Easter yourself.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

I am gone Sunday to Wednesday, but I guess it doesn't matter (assuming you're already delaying for hEad)

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Indeed so. The delay is now in, btw.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Yea, thanks for the really good mach P3D. That war was full of nail-biting momments for me. You had a really impressive invasion army there. Considering what you had at your disposal, I was lucky that I found you early :). I'm just happy that I managed to make Ermor a little less early-game vulnerable.

Re: Pyrothere - LA slowpace - Game on!
 

Hey, Marig has staled for the last two turns. Do we want to look for a sub or set them AI? I'd rather not wait until Sat. only to have another stale.