Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

Criteria is always personal experience including experience with particular map. Mine is vast.
No, coasts are not excluded, of course. The list of provinces is given, .map file is also given. You may always create a game with Debug mod and cast Eyes of Debug (easiest way to see everything).

Feel free to ask me for any details.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

I think we only wait for Natpy and Revolution

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

I believe there are a few errors on the map

(checking my notes...)....

43, 25 should have fresh water (as there is a river)
But 25, whould probably be a waste without water, as thats what the graphic is. Currently its listed as farm.

276 should not have multisites, or it should have the multisite graphic

214 should probably not be small, as its neighbors, which are smaller, are not.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

I am sorry I didn't post it here. I made some modifications to the original for Heracles game to tweak it a bit but forgot to mention this.
Yes, 19 and 25 were made farms instead of wastelands because otherwise the appropriate regions are both deadly to start into. Also, I made 279 large due to similar reasons.

The other problems you mention must have probably come with the original map. I don't think they are too important and I'll probably fix them when preparing the next game (or even for this game - today, if I'm not too sleepy). Most probably there're other problems as well but I don't really think they have major influence on the game.

p.s. As for the fresh water, original map's description says that there're no fresh water in wastelands so your first point is not a problem most probably.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

Btw, we have 8 MA nations vs 7 LA. Interesting duel, isn't it?)
However, I'd bet that majority won't win this game, you middleagers! :fight:

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

Also, we may have several interesting duels: monkey duel, illithid duel, jaguar duel and cave duel.
There could have been a warlock duel but I surrendered without a fight with Dragar:)

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

Ah, why'd you pull out of abysia ano? I've never had an abysia vs abysia duel before, would have been interesting. Take fire out of the equation altogether and it would be fun seeing how abysia would fight each other, especially as MA and LA are quite similar

Alternately we could have spread global warming together!

Oh well, one less blood power to compete with Chris's mictlan..

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Full. Uploading pretenders
 

Actually I felt that Gath is more tasty. It was an enemy of Abysia for ages, according to the legend, btw.
And we're also not against warming and blood:)

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I sent my 2h file to the llama server address last night but it shows I haven't taken my turn yet. Does it take that long to update or did I do something wrong? :o

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Try resending.
Send it (as specified in llamaserver FAQ) to turns(at)llamaserver(dot)net with _Nox_ in the letter topic.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I sent it to the right address, but did not put NOX in the subject now that I think about it. resending now

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Not "Nox" but "_Nox_". Llamaserver doesn't allow game names shorter than 5 symbols. I really don't know why.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I don't think you need the game name in the subject line for sending in turns. For me it is only necessary when sending in my pretender.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

You are mistaken, AJ. How do you think llamaserver should understand which game is your file for?

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I sent the 2h file but I keep getting replies that I'm trying to send a pretender file to a game already in progress. it is turns at llamaservers dot net right?

Somehow I knew I'd be the one messing this up :o

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Probably you are
- either trying to send to pretenders(at)llamaserver(dot)net
- or you are sending not your turn from the game folder but your pretender from newlords folder

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

it's neither. I send the mid_bandar.2h file to the turns addy, but I keep getting replies from the pretender addy with my 2h file attached to it saying I am sending a pretender file to a game in progress. I am at a loss at how to proceed. Mayhap Llama can enlighten us.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Could you please contact llamabeast and describe your problem? I don't know what it might be.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

AJ is not mistaken. The answer is of course that the server is magic. Seriously though, it's worth testing before telling someone they're wrong. You do, however, need the game name when sending in pretenders.

Also on the server trivia front, whether you send it to pretenders@ or turns@ doesn't really matter (IIRC), you just get different error messages in the two cases if it doesn't work. i.e. the server just treats the address as a clue as to what you were trying to do if it hits an error. Generally it works out what to do with the file from the file itself.

BandarLover - well, it seems to me that one way or another you are sending in a pretender file rather than a 2h file, although it's a very curious thing to happen. What I would do: delete the file in question. Take your turn again. It should reappear. If not maybe you are in the wrong folder. If you have no luck though, send it to me (llamabeast@...) and I'll take a look. Maybe there is an obscure bug somewhere.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Hm, llamabeast, I am surprised indeed.
How do you differentiate two turns for one nation sent into different games from same email? By particular game accepting or rejecting the turn? And if, say, all games reject the turn what error message do you show?

And yes, I am sorry for telling AJ he is wrong without checking:).

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

ok, I did as llama suggested and redid my turn, thank God it's only turn 1. :D

here's hoping I didn't screw it all up! *crosses fingers*

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

the only apologies I accept contain death gems :)

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I don't have death gems so probably I'll remain unforgiven:).

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I notice that the turn isn't set to run till Thursday.

Did someone ask for a delay?

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

No. It is normal situation for the first turn. It lasts two days to let people dive into the game and solve possible problems.
Alpine Joe said he will send his turn soon so hopefully we won't have to wait until Thursday:)

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Okay, thanks... :D

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

While your waiting, you might take a look at Mud and Blood 2.

Its a flash defense game based on the Battle of The Bulge.

The object is to see how long you can survive... :D

http://www.kongregate.com/games/urbz/mud-and-blood-2

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Well I'm basically out of the game already due to a totally implausible event. My pretender should *never* lose to 30 icthyids. That's just ****ing retarded. Hell, my pretender shouldn't lose to sea trolls and krakens, losing to icthyids is like getting kicked in the crotch repeatedly.

There's also no way for me to recover from this. I'll stick around and play out my (likely short) lifespan, but I'm not going to do anything remotely useful.

(I seriously ran this opening 100 times and never lost a blind engagement. I notably beat harder opposition consistently, and beat up to 60 ichthyids without a problem. The RNG has apparently decided to hate me. He beats 80 clan amber tritons without batting an eyebrow, for example).

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Nets are quite dangerous.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Not really. He beats 60 of them usually, after all. He wasn't even netted when they hit and broke him - they did the usual exchange of net/break net with no complications.

Unlikely events:
Single hit for >30 damage
Single hit causes pretender to route

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Stupid editing time limits...

To hit me they need to overcome the following:
Awe +0 vs. morale 13 (70% chance to bypass)
Ethereal (25% chance to bypass)
Def 15 vs. Att 10 (14% chance) - i realize this goes up over time, except 'misses' due to ethereal and awe don't count as attacks for the multiple attacks against you penalty.

In addition, it requires them to not have broken vs. Fear +9 by turn 5 of melee (morale 13 vs. 11 = 62% chance to not break each turn) when the strike occurred. (And of course, their morale is actually decreasing that entire time - it was 4-6 for the entire squad when they hit him). Assuming constant 13 morale that's a 38% chance to break every turn, or a ~9% chance to not have broken before their 5th strike.

So, there are 11 ichthyids in base contact the entire time (they were faster than the other, non-net bearing ichthyids, who didn't get there until it was over, and who broke immediately upon entering the fear radius). Ignoring the P(they break), they each have a ~2.5% chance of hitting, which is low enough that the benefit from being a second strike doesn't actually come into play often enough to matter. That's an expected 1 hit per 4 rounds. And it gets worse as their morale plummets because the Awe becomes more effective.

And I have Twist Fate cast, which negates that hit.

So, still assuming constant morale, the odds that they score at least 2 hits in five rounds overall look something like the following:

P(fail fear round 2) * P(2 hits round 1|11 attacks) + P(fail fear round 3) + P(2 hits round 1+2) + ...

Except then we have to subtract off inconvenient bits and the like. So even granting they make it to round 5 its...

= (55 choose 2) * P(hit) ^2 * P(no hit)^53

= 1485 * .000625 * .261 = .24, or a 24% chance of dealing damage even once.

Now, you expect them to inflict 13 damage before protection/random bonus is taken into account, which makes the likelihood of a sufficiently damaging event to cause the pretender to break is small even given a hit. 10% is rather generous, and that drops us down to a 2.4% event. 13 + drn vs. protection + drn doesn't result in *30* damage even that often. Assuming that protection is 0 and the drn is snakeeyes, the attacker's drn would have to be 19, which requires at least 2 6's to be rolled (with a 5 and a 4), making it a 1/150 type of event. Once we figure in the protection drn it becomes even rarer.

So ballparking, the odds of my pretender losing that battle are somewhere down around .1-.01%, and certainly no greater than .1%. And that's ignoring (1) they break before 5 rounds of melee complete and (2) their morale decreases due to fear over the course of the combat (makes Awe better). That probably makes it a .001% event with an upper bound around .01%.

Edit: I didn't take into account more than 2 hits. The third hit events adds another .6% (irrelevant for ballparking, its not an OoM). The fourth+ hit events add insignificant amounts. So consider the P(2+ hits|55 attacks) = ~.246

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Definitely very unlucky, slight comments on risk assessment:

Am pretty sure failed attacks still reduce your defence.. so the chance of getting past your defence is very high for the later attackers, ignoring ethereal/fear/awe

Did you have any fatigue?

Lastly, chance of improbable failure MP >>> chance of improbable failure SP


Lastly for real - why did a retreat make your pretender die? Why didn't you just return to home province if routing?

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

The little buggers still hadn't routed to fear, and were faster than me, so chased me down (and managed to hit me again, which I suppose is also incredibly unlikely in its own right)

No more than 5 fatigue from casting Twist Fate.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I don't believe you really ran it 60 times, without losing.
Nets are dangerous - but even more than that, lack of dominion in the target province will cost you hp, strength, and MR.

*Plus* if you attack with troops, you will lose the morale bonus.

A few comments:

A. Multiple attacks still negate defense. *you* don't know etherealness is going to kick in - so you still flinch.
B. When you route, you have -4 (iir) to your defense, so it is much more likely to hit - plus your opponent gets a free attmpt for you leaving the Zoc.
C. For them to break from fear, they have to not only take morale losses, but they have to take casualties (wounds or deaths) to *prompt* the morale check. So essentially, until some of them are wounded, (or receive a morale check from other sources, like wailing winds etc) there is 0% chance.
Additionally, they get the +1 home territory, perhaps.


Thats why you can see a whole squad of 0 morale troops still attacking.

D. Units of 4 or less, (including gods) are subject to the rule of 4: Ie., if you take *any* damage you are subject to route. (pg 80) via morale check.
And remember that you were lower on hp; to get the wounded modifier you only had to lose 25%. But more importantly, once a morale check is called for the

morale roll (squad morale + DRN + 5) >? 13 + DRN. As the DRN's are open ended, more or less every round you take damage you're subject to an open ended roll.

E. Finally, fatigue was probably a factor. After turn3, you were (possibly) greater than fatigue 10, reducing defense, and (possibly) increasing a crit chance.

I'm fairly sure against 30 opponents.. twist fate actually increased the chance of someone hitting you (one turn earlier than it usually would have happened).

The gods roll dice. Sorry yours came up 00 this time man.

The good thing is LA-R Freespawns will call God for free = )

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

amen on the editing time limits;

"Once one net hits, all the other attacks will hit, due to the tanglevines spell effect. I also don't know whether you were subject to repels. Again, even 1 pt of damage is enough to enable the morale flee.

I'm fairly sure against 30 opponents.. twist fate actually increased the chance of someone hitting you (one turn earlier than it usually would have happened).

That really does suck man- but theres only a very few pretenders I'll attack blind with. I'd figure your chance of losing at maybe 5-10%. "

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Well, I didn't get hit while netted, so that wasn't even really a factor.

They did get wounded (or slain) every turn i managed to attack. So i guess i only provoked 2-3 fear checks since 2 turns i had to shrug off nets. But their morale was lower than 13 at that point...

And I had no source of fatigue except casting twist fate. Reasonably certain it's a 0 fatigue attack since GKs don't wear armor. You only aquire fatigue from attacking as i recall - maybe i'm wrong, but i don't recall units gaining fatigue from being attacked (barring special attacks), and i've looked.

No, the unrecoverable part is the loss of magic paths - there's no way i can come back from the severe neutering of my pretender and the cumulative lack of expansion his death implies. Yeah, he'll be back at some time i'm sure.

As to attacking blind - i'd have attacked 30 ichthiids knowing they were there. The only thing i'd hesitate about is large numbers of trolls and/or krakens. And that's both rare and also an expected win. (Its just the potential damage is high enough to be worrying).

...How does twist fate increase the odds of an attack hitting you anyway? By giving you fatigue?

Failing a check vs. 30 morale is kinda ridiculous... but eh.

Also: I thought you counted the province you were attacking *from* for determining hp.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Yeah the fatigue - the lowering of attack and defence at 5 fatigue is minimal, but it gives a slight chance of a critical and thus ignoring your protection

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Oh, you did this with a GK? I thought you had a kraken. There's no way in hell I'd do it with a GK. They're fragile.

Essentially, all you have to do to lose with a GK is get hit for 50% of your hitpoints. Which you're probably talking is somewhere between 5-15dam.

After that, you're going to take a morale check every round - and again the tyranny of the DRN is two chances for an open ended 6. Every round for 50 rounds.

PLUS with a GK - and hit that occurs is going to have a significant chance of afflicting you.

PLUS even if you weren't hit while netted, you have to use your attacks to become unentangled - so you're not causing damage, aka inflicting a morale check.

PLUS - the chance of attacking a hydromancer blind is too high - since the hydromancer will cast water strikes which will bypass ethereal.

Water adds encumbrance for poor amphibians, but I do not remember if it affects undead. Battle replay would show that = )

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Well, all has been said. It's up to you, Squirreloid whether to leave the game, of course. Obviously, it is no good. But I might add from myself that you will learn sooner or later why attacking blindly on the first turn is... unwise. Kraken is probably the safest for this but I do remember slayed Krakens as well.
Chris said everything. GK is really fragile, has no regen and once he gets hit, he has a much increased chance to root. Ichtyids, OTOH, are really dangerous with their nets that severely lower defense. Also, they have wonderful morale and it is well known that they're dangerous for early SC's. So, I'm not surprised here.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Oh, I'm sticking around. I'm just pretty sure I'm hosed. But I'll die to another player.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Hmmm, that's strange. I'm not receiving a e-mail from Llama server that my turn was received.
Llama server shows that the turn was received.

:confused:

Its okay, but kinda disconcerting...

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

It happens. Mail problems

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Ah, I just found out what was wrong, I was sending the turns to Llama himself. My bad... Bwaha...:D

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I'd keep playing too. I alway learn even when I'm on the downward slope. Fun to try some crazy angles... and if you do end up winning with a start like that it would be legendary. ;)

-ssj

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Whew. What a day. I started a tear out at 08:00, finished at 13:00. Fired a subcontractor, and finished a bathroom after that.
I'm beat. ;)

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Oh dear god, someone just put me out of my misery.

There isn't a water province I can see with less than ~70 inhabitants (except for the sea trolls, kraken, and hydromancer one...). While my pretender could have taken the 70 triton province, or the *120* triton province, my regular armies are not up to the task and won't be for a *long* time...

And of course half my freespawn are tritons so I'd even have a hard time gobbling up the easy land provinces I can see (trust me, all the land provinces I can see look easy by comparison).

I don't think i've ever seen a start with so many defenders, much less for such crappy provinces. (Seriously, 120 tritons for a 15 gold province? What the hell is that?) Where's the 20-40 tritons/merfolk/atlantian militia defenses?

Still in, really not doing much.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I can tell you that it was quite long ago when I had such an unlucky start. Not only my starting army that won in all tests ran from militia and lost 19 units but I also lost early mercs to Pythium who bid exactly the same amount for them. Add unlucky events on top and all this makes a perfect start. Thanks god, no plague in my capital by now..:)

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

Ano im in a game right now where I had two half pop plague events in my cap on turns 2 and 3 with luck 3. Anything better than that now seems like a great start :)

But you are not alone as my luck in this game could also be called relatively bad.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

I'd probably leave immediately after that
IMO, plaguelike events should be prohibited for the capitals for the first, say, ten turns.

Re: Nox. MA+LA. Started.
 

All events should be prohibited from the capitol for like the first year. The good events for balance reasons (no risk, no reward). The bad events because too many of them are just reamful. Even getting a brigands event turn 2 horribly destroys your opening.

.................

I might have a chance this game if we were on easy research. But even getting a research engine to the point it'll do anything is going to take forever...