Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Huh... I don't know how that could be done without help from llamabeast, and anyway, the message from the server claims that reusing the old files will just reproduce the crash. But communication concerning these problems is murky enough that I will err on the side of asking Septimius about it in a private message, just in case.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

All right, well I'm not waiting for that. If Septimius has a magical solution it will have to be applied the next time one of our games crashes.

I'm rolling back the turn. Please handle your .2h files appropriately! Do not resend your old .2h files!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Oh hm I'm trying a strange new thing (you'll probably get another turn file unexpectedly).

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

WHOA I guess I fixed it?

Apparently after you roll back a turn, LlamaServer will say it's waiting for everybody's moves. And whatever new moves people send in during that time will be used, as you'd expect. But it still keeps the old .2h files in the background, and supplies them for any players who haven't submitted new ones, which is a little weird but the server tells you it does this when you do the roll-back thing.

So you can just roll back and immediately tell it to host the turn again, and it won't actually be certain to crash again, for reasons I don't understand (probably the random number generator produces different values every time so the turn doesn't run the same way?) and yet for some reason people don't just always do this? I don't know. I guess it's fine now though?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Sorry just now getting your PM. Right, that is how we handled it. A rollback and a force host.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I'm confused, which turn does the server think it is?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I received two turn files. Turns 34 and 35. Which one am I supposed to be playing and submitting?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I wrote all that stuff about rolling back and moving .2h files, thinking you should play 34--but then at the last moment I discovered the solution Raiel was talking about, and produced a proper 35.

So, play turn 35. That should be the latest one you've received, and the only one of the lot that actually reflects the moves you made on turn 34.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

A thousand apologies!! I had a pretty big pc problem and just got everything up and going. However, I don't have my copy of Dominions right now but I also know my situation as Ogre Kingdom is pretty bad, if I haven't been eliminated already. Should I post a new thread looking for a replacement or have the admin set me to AI?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Well, you haven't been eliminated... 900 defence on your capitol will make that a slow proposition. I may actually have to starve your entire force just to get the walls down. It might be a good idea to go AI or find a sub just so turns process more quickly for everyone.

BTW... I did notice and appreciate your compliments earlier; I thought I had acknowledged that post, but it seems I spaced it. Thank you! It was good playing with you.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm I guess a person could pirate a copy to you? Well a substitute would be nice... but who would want to do that. Maybe you still have a significant chance of recovering somehow? I don't really want you to come out and say whether you do, because part of trying to win is hiding some of your plans, but if we made you AI then it wouldn't matter anymore anyway, since any chance you have now would be squandered by the AI. So I guess I'll leave it up to you. If you want to go to the trouble of taking a copy of the game from me, then I am willing to try to send you one (I am assuming here you still legally own it and will come back into possession of your game disc or whatever at some point). If you want to try to find a substitute then go for it. Otherwise I'll make you an AI. Even the craziest dedication to hardcore play of whatever sort must make the occasional allowance for acts of God (the true god that is--not any of yours).

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

As much as it pains me, I say go ahead and set me to AI. AFAIK, playing with a 'pirated' copy of the game will wreak ten tons of havoc on the game so I'd rather not do that. And honestly, my position is quite horrible so any kind of sub would essentially just be clicking 'End Turn' until Bandar (Raiel) takes my cap. I've almost no income, diseased armies (damn you gluttony!!!) and can only rely on blood summons for new troops.

I'll pm you my nation password so you can set them to AI. I really am sorry for this and desperately wanted to finish out to the bitter (VERY bitter) end.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Really? How? Do they encode CD keys in .2h files somehow??

Anyway Ogre Kingdoms is AI now.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Honestly, I'm not sure Bananadine. I just seem to recall several posts a few years back when people were having issues playing MP games and they admitted they were using a pirated copy and that turned out to be the issue. Thanks for setting me AI and again, very sry to everyone for holding everything up.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Thanks for playing!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Hm I finished my turn but Gmail is down.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Send more vandrotts, Vanheim, my PD is hungry =)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Understood.

What will you do with your strong new income of fire gems? Let the nations of the world hold a vote.

Vanheim votes that they be transmuted into gold and used to feed the poor of Arga Dis (to the rich of Arga Dis).

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Ummm... yeah, i noticed that. Really not excited by fire gems... even *a lot* of fire gems.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Hey vanheim, you've got 5 hours. Problems?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Nope, just put it off for a while!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

The nation of Eriu is looking to acquire death gems, and is willing to trade earth and fire gems on a 1:1 basis. Please PM with the number of death gems you're willing to trade, if any.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Bump - trade offer still viable.

Also, if the game is going to be delayed, could that fact be announced in the game thread? I just noticed the turn wasn't due till the 14th...

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I didn't delay just this turn--I increased the hosting interval. My turns take two hours now and I am busy!

Others are free to request interval increases too, though I have the impression that most people prefer lower ones than I do. I don't plan to increase the interval again for a long while--not for my own sake, anyway.

Of course we still won't always wait through the whole interval. You may place some hope in quickhost....

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Apparently my total inability to take a single Van fortress still qualifies me as becoming too powerful. Hilarious. I might ask the nations of the world to do some better scouting - my 'power', such as it is, lies mostly in being annoying. And make no mistake, if you intend to invade me know that you will capture nothing but savaged and pillaged land that I will do my best to reduce to ashes. At the same time, my forces will do their best to harass you guerilla style before disappearing again and reappearing elsewhere. To attack Eriu is to fight a continuous war which ultimately you cannot win, and which will merely sap your resources and leave your nation a similarly burnt-out husk. Just ask Vanheim.

On the other hand, the nations of the world might be interested in knowing that TC has achieved level 9 alteration, and is running around with at least one mage capable of casting army of gold. Eriu has nowhere near that kind of research prowess. Instead, Eriu is a wartorn realm that has never been allowed the chance to develop in peace, ruling tribes of foreigners we will have no qualms about putting to the sword in front of ravenous invaders. So please, invade us. Victory, should it present itself to you, will be pyrrhic indeed.

Edit:
I am of course implying that TC is becoming too powerful, rather than Eriu, as research is far more valuable than gold at this point.

I should also provide some incentives i suppose. I am offering a 50e bounty to the first nation who is not at war with me and captures a TC fortress. Obviously, TC need not apply. Anyone who has declared war or the intention to war, but not acted on this threat, is eligible to rescind their declaration and become eligible for the 50e prize.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Vanheim cordially invites the mages of Eriu to dedicate themselves fully to research.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

I am unconvinced there are terms of peace that could be agreed upon by both sides at this point in our conflict. Otherwise I might be making such an offer.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

The balance of power among the nations is difficult to assess. While statements outlining some of the strengths of T'ien Ch'i are true, its weaknesses are underplayed as well as Eriu's advantages. Similar strength can be found in Bandar Log and likely Arga Dis. I imagine that Vanheim has some as well.

I would like to list some advantages I perceive that Eriu has over all the nations.

-2 Globals currently up (Mother oak has been up for a while)
-Vast amounts of territory
-Very large gem income (assumed from the territory and Mother Oak as well as Skaven's capital gem income)
-Amazing recruitable thug chassis
-Atleast 3 hammers pumping out items to kit out these thugs (I have personally supplied 2 of these)


I'd rather not delve too deeply into my nation's weaknesses as I may soon find other enemies exploiting them, but consider the following:

-T'ien Ch'i has likely the least amount of territory (this is easily verifiable)
-T'ien Ch'i has no good recruitable thugs
-T'ien Ch'i's gem income in some areas is severely lacking; I have been extremely unlucky with some types of gems.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

TC might do well to remember that as this game is playing with non-unique gem generators, territory is a poor rating of power. The real rating of power is how many bloodstones, fever fetishes, and clams a nation has. And Eriu is willing to disclose that our water gem income is rather anemic, a gem type that is important in such a game setting. Especially as we have other valuable uses for water gems besides. We also have not engaged in the barbaric practice of hunting blood slaves, nor are we known for our fire mages. As such, Eriu can virtually guarantee we are *not* winning this game and are not a power to be reckoned with.

And taking the Skaven capitol took *3 years* despite having effectively won the war year 1. Time during which resources that might have gone to site searching and indie expansion were wasted trying to tear the rat's walls down. That particular gem income was dearly bought.

Given the national magic paths of their mages and summons (as both are well suited to clamming), Eriu rather imagines TC and BL to be competing for that title - perhaps they should fight each other? Especially TC since they've mostly turtled behind strong castle walls and sat out of any real warfare - plenty of time to dedicate their cash to research, and their gems to gem generators.

On globals: Mother Oak is a weak gem generator, nothing compared to Earth Blood Seep owned by Vanheim. And you're seriously going to hold Fata Morgana against us? Its perhaps the worst global in the game, bar none. It was merely convenient to cast.

Edit: It probably shouldn't even need pointing out that Eriu is exceptionally weak in the endgame, whereas BL is a strong end game power and TC is no slouch. And as a seemingly strong blood nation I imagine Arga Dis is pretty good too. My neutralizing (not defeating, just neutralizing) of Vanheim should be seen as a public service since they're arbitrarily better later compared to Eriu.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

You've obviously never cast Ghost Ship Armada then :)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

What if no one has any? Power is left unmeasurable!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Arga Dis would like to declare their abject nuetrality. We are to weak to make a differance on any offensive war and as such rescind any promises to take any castles. Also, in the interest of peace it should eb remembered that while without great offensive copacity we can still make any invasion a bloody affair.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (awaiting pretenders)
 

Whoops forgot my turn. Well, there's still time.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

I'm having trouble with llamaserver; it seems to not be receiving my 2h file for turn 56. Anyone experiencing the same problem?

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Yes. Note:

"Last updated at 10:55 GMT on Tuesday October 20th
Current time: 22:56 GMT"

But it seems to have taken our turns.

(I mean, it took your turn for Redwich, and my turn for another game--I haven't submitted my turn for Redwich yet.)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Thread about LlamaServer being down: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44190

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

It's up again so if you don't have your turn then tell LlamaServer to resend it!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Hm I thought the turn was due Sunday? Maybe this is the delay that llamabeast added after the server's troubles. Oh well, I'm taking my turn tomorrow morning probably.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Wait, I guess that's today morning (important distinction everybody check your watches quickly now quickly)

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Woo a power outage at a bad time! I almost had to call long-distance to get somebody to delay the turn.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

LlamaServer down for fourteen hours now? Hmmmmmmm well it's pretty good about picking things up properly when it awakens... I guess Bandar Log's turn submission (supposing it has occurred) is probably gonna be okay. And anyway, anything I tried to do about it would also fail to take effect until the server awakened.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Arga Dis would probably prefer not to stale. :(

unscheduled Life Day delay for Arga Dis

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Problem resolved!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

New problem (or possibly offshoot of prior problem): Mithras needs to send in a computer for repairs and won't be able to play for something like a couple of weeks. That's pretty long in Dominions time (though not as long in a 3-day-turn game as it would be in a 2-day-turn game etc.), and my default response is to hunt for a substitute (suggestions welcome).

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Honestly, I'd be happy to conceed to whom I believe the game winner is going to be. But for the sake of not altering gameplay dynamics, I won't announce who this is. (If he would like to step forward and ask for our submission, I'd be happy to oblige).

Eriu has no endgame. Having run out of steam at about the same time I had to fight a bunch of people, I've sort of become resigned to being annoying but not especially threatening.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

I perceive that you're giving up on following the rule of always trying to win, not because you're unwilling to fight but because you perceive it to be impossible to win. Is that right?

Awareness of the possibility that someone will do this will alter my design of future games of this type.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Yes, I believe it impossible for Eriu to win at this point. I mean, I'll play it out, but I don't think anything I do matters all that much (aside from the capability of being annoying). Its rather hard to 'play to win' if there's no feasible 'means of winning'.

I think the number of required VPs is set far too high - the game will have been long since over in any real sense by the time someone achieves that goal.

I also have a vested interest in seeing *you* (bananadine/vanheim) lose because you stabbed me just when i started to recover. But that's really my only remaining motivation - nothing else appearing to be achievable.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Although it may be wise, rational, or otherwise potentially good to believe at some time or another that your somewhat powerful nation can't possibly win, it would never have occurred to me (due to my own personality and quirks) to believe such a thing. So, as I say, the Squirrelloid/Redwich example is educational for me!

But what if everybody is still having fun right up to the end? They are free to do that, even if they aren't winning, and I think that is a pretty "real" sense in which the game could still be said to be progressing!

But of course people are just as free not to be having fun then--we'll see what happens.

Yes, I'd noticed that the barbarians were starting to receive better treatment from Eriu than the people of Vanheim were. Those barbarians seem pretty comfortable!

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Alpine Joe is Arga Dis for now. I don't know whether Mithras told Joe about the nation's diplomatic situation, so if you had an understanding with Arga Dis, it may be in need of refreshment.

Re: Redwich - a dramatic game (in progress)
 

Hm half an hour left and Arga Dis hasn't sent in a turn. I've delayed the hosting, since we just changed a player and something strange may have happened.