Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

part of it is that when i played in the maptest game ShaBay2, it was with 5 players (one water nation) and it worked fine. using the same map for 2 seems like a lot. i'd vote for vfb's map.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I agree with Baalz, having a smaller map will tilt things (a bit too much)in the direction of bless/rush tactics. I vote for Sha Bay.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Yeah I vote shabay

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

what about silent seas? 47 lands (2 isles), 15 seas

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

68 is simply too large. This could easily turn into a 70+ turn game should one nation go fort building, which would push the conclusion of the tourney into 2070.

Additionally, with easy research this strongly tilts the game.

Smaller maps will tilt it toward rush nations - but thats ok - we all know it and can take whatever precautions we feel are necessary. However it also has the salutary benefit of making shorter games.

I'd look for a map of ~40 ish territories, max. I'd vote for vfb's or silent - and I do think there should be map choice involved so as to make the water nations viable.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I'd be willing to practice duel with some people on a couple maps to see if sha bay is to big, or if vfb's map or silent are too small. i'm willing to be convinced that i am wrong

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Yeah, Silent Seas might be better than Sha Bay and also covers what I had in mind. I do think it's kinda silly to be too worried about 70+ turn games. Obviously the outliers might be absurdly long if neither player takes the imitative, but that's the case regardless of map size. I just played a duel on Sha Bay (with 2 AI players, admittedly) and we were fighting in year one and the game decided by turn 20.

The thing is, in a duel you don't have to siege all the castles while your opponent stalls - pretty much whenever you're to the point that the only thing your opponent can hope for is to cause a lot of casualties going down the game is over. I've played dozens of duels and honestly can't think of a single one that even required a capital to be taken, just for it to be shown that it was all but inevitable that it could be.

In a duel there is nobody who is going to save you. There is no diplomacy. There is no point in playing 100% defensively. There is no point in actually fighting to the last man. When you can't mount an offense and don't foresee being able to the game should be called.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I agree with what baalz says about duels and such, and sha bay is great for 4 people. Silent seas works for me. and with 15 water, it might work for having a sea nation too

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Baalz, my points are actually rarely silly, regardless if you agree or disagree with them.

With 64 players its the outliers you have to worry about; and which are virtualy guaranteed to happen with this many players.
Additionally, with this number of players you are virtually assured of getting matchups some of which will feature two 'slow' nations.

This is why I favor restricted nation choices: You can guarantee you wont' have to have abysia fighting LA-Ryleh.

You are going to lose a lot of players due to attrition if you have 50 players waiting around for 14 nations to finish, so keeping the game length down is is important.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Why would you have 64 players waiting on 14? Just start the next round up for everyone that has an opponent, there's not really any need to keep the rounds synched up.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

BWHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

....

*looks again*

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

:rofl:

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

If the choice is to go with a smaller map, I'v vote for vrb's (and retricting sea nations) over silent seas for the balanced locations/geography.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

My vote is for Silent Seas. It's the most balanced land/sea map of the desired size, and, it's a very good map.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I too would like to vote for Silent Seas (the unwrapped one; because the wrapped map gives a too huge boost to nations who can sail).

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Silent seas is ok but I think an all land map would be better suited for the tourney.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

If we're using Silent Seas, can i request fixed starts? Because random starts can lead to *really* close placements on that map.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

second that.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Pashas Dogfight map is nice I think.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I'd rather have an all land map of about 40 provinces.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I'm curious why you feel that was as I feel the opposite. No water reduces strategic options and removes one of the native advantages of several nations skewing the power even more towards those nations with first rate straightforward ground troop - Neifelheim, Mictlan, Lanka, etc. Having water is going to give a bit to Agartha, Atlantis, Patala, Marignon, etc. who are generally much lower on the power curve, and with the ratios its not like you could win without also winning on the land. If the matchup is between two nations poorly suited to water it'll probably mostly be ignored, though any nation could consider the water when designing their pretender. It just seems like the presence of water would lend itself to richer strategies.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I agree completely.

I really wish that each round the tourney god could say it will be between EA-Mictlan and LA-Mictlan, Sauromatia and Ctis.

Or give 3 nations choices for A, three for B.

Then whoever choses a or b, the opponent choses the map out of maps 1,2,3,4.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Do you mean Dawgbiscuit? Or does pasha have another 'dawg' map I am unaware of?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Ultimately, It's just a feeling.

Clearly there's a fine balance between the two extremes of equalizing everything or allowing all the nations and varied terrain map. I'm not advocating for either of the extremes but I feel like all land is a compromise that can be made towards making the duals more robust while keeping enough options open.

One situation I'd want to avoid is for a water nation to turtle in the water while the land nation is unable to achieve victory condition.
Another is taking away from the power of LA Ermor who is already very strong as it is.
So yes, Agartha and Atlantis would suffer from that but who'll take them anyway?
As for LA Mari and Van I'm not so sure. Van probably has enough going for it that it can still be viable w/o sailing.

It is most likely that many lessons would be learned during this tournament so I don't mind either way. We will all know better after.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

First of all, CBM 1.6 has made entering the water easier than ever.

Second of all, I support some small number of water provinces on the map even if we ban water nations. Some nations want coastal starts and won't follow fixed start placements unless they get them (eg, Fomoria, LA Atlantis). And water provinces can give the map more interesting shape than just land provinces everywhere.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

i don't see why to turtle in a duel.
it may be my first MP fight but to me seems that you gain nothing to turtle, you already survived untill the last enemy and a duel is too quick for gem massing, especialy without gem generator; also your enemy will crush you sooner or later as he will have more lands.
plus, the game organizer can just say"you there, you are not playing, you are eliminated"

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

If we get to 64, I still think we need more viable nations, that water allows.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that LA-R, MA-R, arent viable.

As for Atlantis, with water in the game, LA-Atlantis is a perfectly viable nation - one I like a lot.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

La atlantis should be viable also in a land only map, underwater they just gain troops designeted to kill r'lyeh

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I mean this one: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44132

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

... and access to astral magic?

LA Atlantis without UW provinces would suck. Also, without a coastal province they won't follow fixed starts, which is problematic for a duel because you really want to have fixed starts.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Awesome. Another great Pasha map I didn't know about.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

ok, I guess a few UW provinces wouldn't hurt :)

I have a clarification question, just to make sure I got that right. The nations assignments are unique per all the players right?- Not per dual. I mean, if two players or more choose Niefel they'd have to roll the dice to see who gets it. right?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

That's a nice little duel map, that I had never seen before. It even has a little water. And the games would god a lot quicker than on Silent Seas, which is actually a fairly large map for this sort of thing.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

so do y'all think we've got all we're going to get? or are we going to wait and see if one more joins for Graeme Dice?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I already stated my interest but my post seems to have been overlooked

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

several have added since then I dont' think aoe has updated

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I vote for Dogfight. Seems perfect for the job.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I am in! EA Nifleheim, LA Ermor, LA rlyeh, EA Helheim, or Random for my picks please, if random isnt an option, then EA Gath

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Like the weak nations, do you?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Good luck choosing the right number.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I'm not greedy, I will just take MA Ashdod.

Oh, and number 27.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Shouldn't you guys be PMing your picks privately? If you go around telling people your numbers they don't help a whole lot.

Unless you are just fooling around in which case you may proceed to ignore me.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Huh? I thought that AoE wasn't accepting picks yet.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I think he accepting picks by PM. At least, that is how I intend to send mine.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

I'd like to start thinking on it but it would be nice of AoE to confirm to those coming after the 32th that they CAN start thinking.
Are we alternate or will we play from the start?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

If you are still accepting I'd like to participate.


I think someone mentioned Swiss system for pairing matches? Its how they sort out pairings when I play in chess tournaments - I remember there was some simple program that did the pairings automatically after each round; I can try and look it up if AOE is interested.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Swiss system is only useful if we plan on not eliminating participants who lose.

People posting their picks in this thread are silly.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Why are people stating nation and number?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

What's the count at now? 33? Or something higher?

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

AoE seems to be AWOL.

Re: Mega-Dueling Tournament - Rules, Settings, Check List, and Sign Ups
 

Considering he mentions in the first post he plans to get the game running sometime mid-January, I wouldn't go to too deep conclusions quite yet. One would almost believe from AoE's post he won't be much around before mid-January, you know, as he spesifically mentions it :)