Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Okay, it is poll time. One of the players, considering using a phoenix as a pretender, found out that they still have the bug where they can die permanently from being trampled to death. They were wondering if an altered version of CBM could be used in which the phoenix was size 6, to avoid the possibility of getting killed off stupidly that way. Wraithlord is a bit against the idea, but is willing to open it up for discussion. So please vote, for size 6 phoenixes, or against?

Both will be need to be uploaded to the server, since you have created a new image file. When you try to upload one, it will ask for the other. At least if the name is different from the version currently on the llamaserver.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I say yes. I'm not worried about Phoenixes with boots of the behemoth.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

If the name is not different then I'll change it manually (and in the .map) before ULing it.

As for poll, I'm against this b/c I can't foresee how it will effect balance. It seems trivial but go figure, it's not like the change was tested or was part of CBM so that ppl would have time to consider the ripple effect it may have. We are that close to starting the game and I personally would like to keep changes to a minimum. I am all for Calahan's fixes to the map but would like to keep the changes at that and nothing more.
In short. I vote no.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I'd generally be pretty easy either way on the Phoenix vote thing. Although I do think it would be a bit harsh if someone lost their Phoenix Pretender permanently (ie. Immortal tag being ignored) due to a game bug, as that is something out of a players control. So seems unfair to punsh them because of that.

But I never fence sit, so I will vote yes for allowing a size 6 Phoenix (based on it fixing a game bug that in a perfect world wouldn't exist). I can't see what imbalance is caused by the Phoenix being size 6, apart from making them trample proof. And........

The Phoenix doesn't have any feet :shock: So they won't be wearing any fancy footwear from this years summer collection :(

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I think immortals can still be killed by other funny things like Votd, so adding one more makes little difference, and I'm with WL here on less changes - less trouble point. So, no to modded Phoenix.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I'm confused. Are we talking about the phoenix' immortality being ignored, or the prospect of a dead god who can't be called back?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Ignored immortality.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I'd vote against. everyone knows the bugs with immortality. they die on retreat, VotD, and i guess trample too.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I vote no to the Phoenix size 6.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

No to size 6 phoenix, even if it would be fun to hit it with a hero's blade that way.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I vote no.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Size 6 Phoenix automatically gains immunity to Wind Ride, which is a perfect way to get rid of immortal being.
I ran several test with trampling Phoenix and can say - not a single bird was hurt in the process, they all were carefully (not without a couple of affictions though) placed into capital after death. But I had few incidents with multyplying Phoenixes as a result of trample instead, and I thought recent patch was fixing this.
My vote is no to size 6 Phoenix.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Also, wouldn't size 6 Pheonix gain sort of immunity to trampling?
It seems like this bug needs to be fixed by IW. Give it size 6 is kinda like fixing a wrong with another wrong.

vote, for size 6 phoenixes, or against?
Yes: 2
No: 7

I think the current votes are sufficient to give rdonj the player's answer - no.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I think that's the whole point of making the Phoenix size 6 isn't it? Since it is the trampling that is causing the bug to trigger.

It's certainly a bug for illWinter to look at, but if bugs can be worked around via a mod, it's sometimes worth doing IMO (until IW get around to it). Of course it all depends on what the bug is, how much it affects games etc.


WingedDog does make a very good point though (as is his usual habit) about size 6 making an immortal commander immune to Wind Ride. I certainly failed to consider this before when I said that I couldn't see what imbalance it causes.

Guess it's just another occasional bug that creeps in now and again with Phoenix Pyre and/or immortal units. But at least those who are thinking of taking the Phoenix for this game should now be aware of the problem (and so have less course for complaining about it if this bug hits them during the game).

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

It's sort of hard to complain about something after the game starts, given RAND post rules.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Calahan, the suggestion is to "fix" a bug in which the phoenix may die to trampling by giving it trample immunity. Trample immunity is not that trivial. It is valuable to have an immortal trample immune pretender when you get rushed by elephants. Such a trait should come with increased cost.

This is out of scope of this game. I (or rather - vote) say, let IW and/or CBM handle this.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Anyway, yes, it does seem like there is insufficient support for the idea to put it through. So there will be no size 6 phoenixes this game. Carry on, then.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

There are many bugs with phoenix [that trampling thing, mirror image/glamour giving immunity to pyre explosion, sudden explosions without reason etc]. So it's generally not a good idea to pick phoenix if you want to win the game. It's great on defense of course, but not for winning wars and games. It goes rather well with C'tis though.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Attached is the final version of the map. I sadly didn't find the time in the end to do the visual alterations I would have liked to do if I had unlimited time (adding a new forest for every forest start mainly).

I did manage to balance a few of the starts out a bit though by adding and/or removing a few 'large' or 'small' province tags. In particular there were 3-4 starts that were adjacent to a large farmland province, which usually meant on average a +20k population province next to home. Thought that was a bit much, so I removed all the large province tags for these farmlands, which seems to have reduced them to a more acceptable average population of around 13k. (all the farmlands not adjacent to a capital are as they were)

Also added a few 'large province' tags to the start locations that seemed to be struggling for gold a bit. Mainly some of the mountain starts with mostly mountains as adjoining provinces.

Finally, I added the 'fresh water' tag to the provinces that border the two new rivers I put in. This is so the map is consistent with all the other provinces that are tagged as 'fresh water' (ie. All the provinces that border a river).


Think that is all from me on the map front folks. There is no way the starts are completely balanced, as some are certainly better than others. But like I said previously on this, that's generally just part of the game. Hope I've gone some way to having the starts in vaguely the same street as each other though. Even if some of the starts are at the posh end of the street :) and some are in the slums :(

Attached are two files. The smaller download is the final version of the .map file, which you will all need to download. The larger download is the .map and .tga file combined (which I hope WraithL will also attach or link to the OP for convenience).

***NOTE - If you downloaded the previous .tga file I posted two days ago, you only need to download the .map file attached to this post, as the .tga file is exactly the same as the previous one.***


@ WraithL - I've uploaded the map to the llamaserver (I think. I hope), so you can create the game now for Pretender uploads. The map should now be selectable from the "User-added maps" section, which starts about half way down the list of maps when the llamaserver asks you to select a map. This map is listed as "Alexander No Sites - For the YARG 2 game". (Edit: Having just checked, the map is currently at the very bottom of the list).

Also, can you attach the complete map file (ie. larger file) I've attached to this post to your original post for easy access and retrieval. As it'll save players having to trawl through the thread to find the map later on if they have to do reinstalls etc. Or just provide a direct link from the OP to this post (since uploading large files can take bloody ages :()

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

I cannot extract the tga file neither with windows integrated zip archiver, nor with winrar. They give me an "unknown compression method" message. What did you use to zip it?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Apologies to those who can't extract the large .zip file I've attached above. I forgot to mention that I used the "7-zip" program to compress the files, as it was the only compression program I could find that would pack the .tga file down from 37Mb to below the 23Mb forum limit for .zip attachments. And I'm not sure how compatable the high compression options on "7-Zip" are with other compression programs (but I'm guessing perhaps not very compatable)

You can get the "7-Zip" program here --- http://www.7-zip.org/

Please post if anyone still has problems unpacking the files, and I'll find another solution. (or a more widely recognised compression program/option)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Calahan, many thanks for the impressive work with the map.

Do you know how I could add a link to your post in the OP. I seem to vaguely recall something to do with adding the post # to the URL but don't recall the details.

I'm heading off to start the game on the server. I'll update once it's alive and then pass the car keys to rdonj and try to enjoy the ride with the rest of you :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

@ WraithL - This should be the link to my post with the map. Just copy it all into the OP, and remove the spaces between the u r l at the start and end of it (so it becomes url).

[u r l]http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=738553&highlight=#post738553[/u r l]

Maybe make a mention about needing the 7-Zip program to unpack it as well.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [full, nations assigned, test your builds!]
 

Game created. Start sending your pretenders. Those who aren't familiar with the procedure please read the guide.

Hurry now, so we can get the game started soon :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

@ WraithL - Have you turned renaming off? Just checked the game settings page on the llamaserver, and can't see any reference to renaming apart from where it says "All other settings on default", and when starting a new game on the llamaserver, renaming appears to be on by default.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

You're very observant. I did turn off renaming. I also double checked in the game settings and it says it's turned off.
It would seem like a glitch in the game settings page that neglects to mention renaming settings changes.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

WraithLord
Thank you for creating a game. I have a suggestion. Unsigned players join created llamaserver games from time to time, not of ill-will, but because they are newbies and unaware they need to sign the game before joining it. Placing a message like: "Please don't join this game unless you signed for it on shrapnel forum. If you want to play - visit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com , games are created regularly. Good luck. :)" on the game page could add an extra level of protection.

to @ll
Please make sure you created your pretender under CBM 1.6 and double check pretender file you are going to send. I haven't played a single game which wasn't restarted because someone messed up with his pretender, and I would really like to have an exception. :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

How do I add this message?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

:) A few games from last year taught me the lesson of triple checking the settings and map of every game I play to avoid hassle and surprises down the road.

Wonder if llama knows that specific info about the renaming settings doesn't appear during the "waiting for Pretenders stage"?

- Game settings and admin options.
--- Change message on game page.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Maybe I can send an email to llamabeast re. this. Perhaps later when I have some spare time.

Oh and thanks for the instructions and tip. I posted your message WingedDog.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

10/24 pretenders sent. Common guys, let's get the game started :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

It's a big game. 24 players. It will take a while for everyone to get their pretenders in. But, indeed, I would hope for an early week start of the game.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

18/24.
last six players, please send your pretenders.
Take your time, there's just 18 players waiting for you ;)

reminder (thanks WingedDog):
Please make sure you created your pretender under CBM 1.6 and double check pretender file you are going to send.
Also make sure you got a confirmation email from the server that it got your pretender.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Later today I'll send out reminder PMs to anyone who has not already sent in their pretender.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Where do we find the correct/final version of the map?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

TwoBits
In this post, I believe :
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...&postcount=119

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I can't get the alexanderyarg2.tga file to extract from the zip file

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

ghoul31
Here's the explanation:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...&postcount=121

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

21/24.

1, 2, 3 and the game can start :D

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

two last players are missing pretenders.
Send them today and let the party begin.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

One player is holding up the game.
:tough: Yeah, you :pointright:, that's right, I'm talking to you - send your pretender plz ;)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I have sent this player a message. One player has commented to me though that really none of you guys should be talking publicly about the holdout, and he's right unless you have a particularly funny sense of humor :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Hey, you're right. My bad. Thanks for pointing this out.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Hahaha, I've so done that before... just made misleading statements in a rand game to make people crazy.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Im having problems unzipping the map. Not sure how to make the program provided by Calahan's link to make it unzip it.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Rytek
Right click on archive -> 7-Zip -> Unpack

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Okay, so the person whose pretender is missing hasn't logged onto the forums in a few days, and is therefore very unlikely to have seen my PM. If you are reading this, and you haven't logged in and checked your messages lately, please do so or it is very likely you will be kicked from the game tomorrow.

This leaves us with a few likely options, since at this point I doubt we're going to hear back from the missing player. Either calahan redoes the map, you play with one missing player, or I look for someone willing to play TNN in the game. I expect the third option is the most preferable so unless told otherwise I will make a thread looking for another player tomorrow morning.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

So you're saying that we all need to gang up on TNN?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Let's just go. He's had enough time. A game of this size always has a holdout. 23 is enough. One hold out is no big deal. Just set TNN to AI from the beginning, or go with 23 players.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Quote from OP:
Having no AI at all is the whole point of this game. In original YARG only 2 players out of 19 ever switched to AI (and their actions weren't approved by other players). Having so little AI opponents made the game superb comparing to other games I participated, and I beleive all players from YARG have the same feeling and expect the same no AI policy here. So placing AI on the map from the start is not even an option to me. Calahan made a hard work balancing the map, and I don't think it would be fair to make him to do the rebalancing.
So, I would prefer to find a sub.