Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Here is another For the Record moment: For the record, most games do not specifically intend to operate like this (this being grudge's above post). Some games do, like this one. Most games with binding diplo don't tell you to post NAPs on the forum though. So if you do this in a normal game, don't be surprised if you're the only one ;). Even if you do that though, it could be awfully hard to prove that the person actually attacked you without ending the NAP properly first.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

I also disagree with this 10 turn no rush rule. 10 turns might not sound like a lot, but in a game like this that doesn't offer much room for expansion, 10 turns can be enough to get you stuck if you can't attack anybody but indies. also all of the "powerhouse nations" have been banned from this game, barring Sauromatia. so it's not like there is some crazy dual blessed jags/niefel giants/palashankas/etc to fear... moreover, such a rule is almost non existent in most other games out there, if you want this to be a learning experience you need to make it as close as other games, not impose tons of special rules that are very game specific...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

These are the rules he wants, it is his game and I have had conversations about them, some supportive some corrective.

You signed up for THIS game, so I guess the rules will apply to this game, If you feel you can't or don't want to play by them as you will not receive anything beneficial out of it, then I suggest politely that you withdraw and look for a more experienced game that will suite your needs.

The rules are there and the vote looks like it is in favor of a 10 turn no war start. I am just his spokesman, and as I said, I can take care of myself so I could really care less if I am rushed, I am more concerned with the other new guys in here to give them a chance.

This isn't directed at you specifically, it is just answering your post.

Look guys, this is a little different game, check the threads as EVERYONE is trying to make a game that is not the same old thing. Ysk is doing his best to accommodate everyone while making a fun game, give him a chance before judging this as it could turn out to be really fun. This isn't RTW or SP, and as you play this you will have to adapt because it is somewhat different.

I think this will make it easier to play the next 'normal'game. So, for those that want to continue, we start Friday, for those having second thoughts, we have an alternate list waiting to see if a spot opens up.

Just let me know if you have changed your mind. Thanks and I think you will get a kick out of this game if you give it a try.:up:

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

jeez Grudge, I was simply replying to this post:

he wanted everyone's votes, I put mine up... oh and so far those who voted on the forums are tied 2:2 so unless it was all via PMs, aka behind the scenes, than the votes are tied. well, I guess you 2 are for it but you guys are the admins...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

We are also players....and we vote also.

Admin simply means we are there as a courtesy to give you extensions, take holidays off, rollbacks (if needed), knowing you have not ever staled and are about to so we give another 6 hours and PM you so you WON'T stale.

And I am NOT admin...I am backup only because I am on the forum a lot and check the site so I WILL catch all those that ask questions, or extensions.

Please Understand...

These are the rules, this is how he set up the game and how it will be played unless you can convince HIM (not me) that it needs to be changed. He is out of the country without Internet access and will be back late Thursday. First turn goes out Friday, so you have about a 12 hour window to convince him of your preferences.

Vote on the forum is 4 to 2 FOR 10 turn No attack Nap to start turn (and 1 PM vote for as they don't want to be involved in all this drama). It was this vote when he left and I suspect it will stand when he gets back, so lets just get ready to enjoy ourselves and learn some stuff.:)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Just posting to remember you to send your pretender

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Thanks Swan....

YEP, tomorrow is Friday and first turn (we should be able to get a few turns in over the weekend (I know it is Easter) but we have to have all our Pretenders in to start the game...so look at them agian, redo them if you want...but get them in...PLEASE.

The vote was pretty overwhelming FOR the 10 turn no fixed NAP between all nations at the start (Hostilities can begin on turn 11).

This is pretty straight forward and common sense AND accidents will happen (such as 2 armies not seeing each other and both attack the same indie province that there is no remedy for).

The 2 most important things are...

1. No outright attacking of each other or provinces already claimed by another nation.

2. You can not attack a province that borders another nations Capitol. Agian, accidents happen as we are flying pretty blind at the start. IF that would occur the attacking nation MUST withdraw the next turn and leave NO PD in it. On turn 11 if it is still under your Banner you may fortify it and claim it as your own.

In order for it to qualify being next to your Capitol, you must be able to move DIRECTLY into the province from your CAP. Mountians and Rivers may block that movement and does NOT count as being next to Capitol, so use the button (I forget the number) that turns ON the lines that radiate out of any province you click on.

If anyone knows the number, feel free to chime in, otherwise it is in your manual.

If any questions, NOW is the time to ask...

Get ready gentlemen and lets all have an interesting and spirted game. Good Luck to all....:up:

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

It is "8"

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Ok people I am back!

RL statement:
A lot of things happen at the same time here and I am pleased to announce that while I was abroad we have received a new member in our family! My brother in law and his wife were blessed with their very first child. A boy named Sam and he weighs 3500 gr. Mother and child are healthy, although giving birth was a bit of a chore for the mother and they had to change from a normal delivery to a caecarean delivery.
She is recuperating in the hospital still, so that's where they keep the baby at the moment as well, but with a bit of luck both mom and Sam can go home tomorrow morning.
After I set all this up and fire up the game I go to take a first visit to meet the little one. I have become 'Uncle' for the first time!
I will be back tonight at the earliest to turn in my next turn if it would be there already, so there is not much delay -if any-.

Now for the game. I see the vote is in favour of the 10 turn no hostilities at the start limit. Grudge has lined out what can and cannot be done in these turns.
The reasoning behind this 'rule' is clearly put down here by Grudge so I do not feel the need to go over it again. The game will start in a few minutes.

I will focus on getting the game off the ground first now. So we are a go.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

Congrats on the new family member :)

Looks like we are still one short. I would love to stay up and kick off the first turn but its 22:16 here and I'm stuffed. I'll stay up for 15 more mins and then go to bed.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [full]
 

That's my pretender. It's on the internet highway as we speak.
First turn should be sent out in mere minutes.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Done my turn, emailed the .2h file back and off to bed.

Good luck everyone :)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

if i see it well, there are victory points on the map. thats something that is not in the description. are we playing for victory points? what are the parameters then?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

The default settings for llamaserver are a standard victory which means you have to eliminate all the other players. The VP's always appear on the map regardless but in a standard game they don't do anything

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

That is correct, last man standing will win:p

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

That's not quite true SciencePro - VP territories get a temple check for the VP.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

i thought i read somewhere that the VP spread only happens in a VP victory game?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Watched it happen in Landlubber - i saw dominion spread from VPs where I had no temples in the area yet.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

yup seems like you're right, squirrelloid. interesting...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

I have specifically told Llamaserver NOT to use VP's.
Grudge, do you have any input on this to clarify?

Does everyone have the game running properly? No issues so far?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

isn't beatiful realising you already made a mistake?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

If its managing your empire, alas, that's the pressure resting on the shoulders of a leader.

If it's of any technical matter, please elaborate. Maybe we can fix it?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

VPs are present on all maps regardless of victory conditions. They won't do anything that matters though, so don't worry.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Well as squirrloid pointed out they do spread dominion. They don't actually lead you to victory however. Victory can only be achieved by eliminating all other players.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Don't worry, it's the pressure resting on the shoulders of a leader

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Ok good. :)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

No I don't, if you turned them off I have no idea.

Squirrelloid is probably morein tune to this than I am.

I thought That unless you had a VP designated win rhen they honestly didn't matter if turned off.

Sorry so late in getting back to you, had a Rugby Tourney (day 1) today, just got home and headed for the shower (for about an hour).

good :rolleyes:

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

LOL, I have had a few of those 'GOOD' moments myself Swan...Hang in there;)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Wind Masters....

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Wind_Master

Don't know they are part of indies until the joules are leaving your boots...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Oh, I love those! I just recently experienced the joy of finding TWO groups of them right next to my capitol in a game... the hard way, of course. Those guys are strong enough to kill the vast majority of expansion parties a player would be fielding early on. Even the hinnoms and the niefels of the world have to be careful when tangling with the wind masters. And they like coming with items too! Like eye shields.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Its usually nice having strong indies close to your capital because once you beat them you will be able to recruit them yourself which can be a huge advantage.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Most mages you find w/indies are actually not recruitable.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Wind Masters are no exception to this :). Also Bloodhenge Druids.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Guess who was hanging around with 2 Blood Vines in the next indie province I sauntered into? :)

I'm learning the value of direct scouting in this game...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

LOL, sounds like some serious work needed to get your empire to expand.
One other question: when scouting the game tells you roughly how many units there are and of which type, but is there a way to check those units' stats in game?
I don't really have a clue, for example, wether 20 cavemen are able to slap the living daylights out of my 40 man army or not...

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

There is no way from the strat map if thats what you mean. However, you could just have your scout attack while set to retreat, then right click the cavemen.

Alternatively, you could look it up on the wiki.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Vines are ALWAYS accompanied by those guys in my experience. So if you see vines, assume bloodhenge druids. They also like to accompany woodsmen, so I always check woodsmen provinces to see if there are any vines or druids around before committing to an attack.

Cavemen! http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Caveman

But yes, if you want to check what's in a province, a scout set to retreat is a good idea. This also lets you confirm the exact numbers of units that are in the province. Of course, the scout needs a retreat route or it will die.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Ah, attack and retreat. I've never thought of that. Thank you!

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Of course there is the pressure to expand. Some nation guides I have seen say that by the end of the first year you should have around 10-12 provinces.

As to Blood Vines, I didn't send in a scout so on the map it looked just like a bunch of weakling forest dudes. Except in battle there were only about 8 of them and Blood Slaves made up the majority of units on the indies side. By the end of the battle this was not the case ;)

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

what "dominion" score means?
btw, i'm jealous of kailasa income

--edit
C'tis, land of the eternal sand, declare this: male beings of inferior races lock your mothers, wives and daughters because Niklatu, aka as "Animal kingdom's version of Chuck Norris" , is here.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

The dominion score is how many candles each person has (I think).

10-12 provinces should be fine for this game. In general it would probably be better to aim for 15-20, or just less than the leader if you want to ward off potential aggression. It's possible to get completely crazy, insane numbers (like LA agartha with 38, or MA ulm with 40) but that's never going to happen in an mp game and you shouldn't even try :P

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Is there any reason *NOT* to build a fortress in every province you own?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

fortresses are expensive but yes, building them all over can be a good idea if you can afford it.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Because fort will be prevent resources "sucking" from other forts and sometimes is better a single fort with a lot of resources than more forts with less resources

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

yes, the first is that forts are very expensive, so you usually can't afford it. the other is that forts have an admin value which controls the amount of resources and gold(I think) a fort can take from its neighboring provinces as long as those are fortless.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

How do you get so many in one year? Research Alteration and some Mages become indie crushing Thugs?

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

nah, that only works for a few specific nations... your starting army+whatever you can recruit on your first turn should be a solid expansion party for most nations. than you can and should form another expansion party and continue expanding with both. if your nation has solid sacred units than you can use a bless, which makes expansion even quicker as you don't need that many units to expand, but your scales will be weaker than normal and your pretender would likely be imprisoned. there are also regular units that can expand very fast such as elephants, chariots(mainly the large Hinnom ones but even the regulars), etc, which allow you to form quick expansion parties too, and without the investment in the bless.

generally some nations can expand better than others, but having less than 10-12 by the end of year 1 is generally considered very bad, unless the map is small, crowded, you suffered unlucky indy events, etc.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

Admin value does not cause a fort to grab gold from nearby provinces. It does, however, cause the province to produce a bit extra gold supposedly. I've not really noticed any significant increase in gold from building a fort though.

To achieve a ridiculuos expansion like the ones I was talking about earlier, you need an awake SC, the ability to make an expansion party each turn from turn 1, and a second fort coming out early in the year. It also helps to have a good start location, and you can't really afford to lose expansion armies if you want to hit a number like that. Seriously though, it's not even worth considering that you'll have more than 20 provinces by the end of year one in a real game.

Re: EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]
 

I must disagree with you here. an awake SC is needed for nations that have crappy starting/national armies and can't otherwise expand fast enough(10-15 provs) and hold off an early rush. a ridiculous expansion, 20+ even 30+ if map allows, requires a new expansion party every turn, usually a very economic expansion party. for example Mictlan/Lanka who recruit their H1B1 mage and 8-10(depending on starting dom) Jags/Palashankas every turn. they'll achieve quite a nice expansion by the end of year 1, assuming the map allows it. a more radical example would be Baalz's EK(Eagle King) expansion with Caelum, that starts on turn 5! but on turn 5 you get 4 provinces, on turn 6 you add 5 more, turn 7 you add 6 more, etc, as much as the map allows you to. and with MM3+Flying you can really cover A LOT of ground, hypothetically on turn 12 you'll have 61 provinces!

but obviously such large expansions are usually impossible, because maps usually allow 10-15 provinces/player, not more than that. so in order to get those 20-25 provinces by the end of year1 you have to beat your neighbors to their own "natural" expansion territories, and perhaps even start an early war with a weak neighbor.