Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

You're going to have to work for your meal, pangaea!

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I just checked the server and Pangaea isn't listed as one of the nations. Could one of you please confirm that Pan has been set AI (Statistics --> Pretenders of the world)? If so, that was very inconsiderate of CarlixTomix.

Having one of the main nations in the game go AI is very unbalancing. If we keep playing with Pan under computer control it basically provides easy provinces for any neighboring nations. OTOH, in order to reverse the AI command we'd have to roll back two turns, which also has obvious drawbacks.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Ya, it says AI ingame. Not sure why he went AI, as he's in the lead in multiple categories and has been slowly but surely tearing me to pieces...

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Now this is.. extremely disappointing, to say the least. I'm sure he had a good reason to stop playing, but he should definitely have said something before simply going AI! Having Pan as AI would indeed be extremely unbalancing at this time.

I'm one of Pan's neighbours so I would in theory be set to gain much. However I feel very strongly that we should roll back as much as needed and then find a sub for Pangaea. As long as there is no threat to game stability (?) I think that would be best. Even if it would be a major inconvenience and change some events.

What does everyone else think? I propose that we postpone hosting if necessary until this has been resolved.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I think a sub needs to be found. I am not certain about a roll back, the last several turns have been significant in the Shinuyama-C'Tis war. I supposed if C'tis is willing to replay it I am but I know he surprised me and anded me some setbacks I may be able to avoid if they are redone (of course he has also learned and could hand me worse ones too).
Ragnoff

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Wow, how very rude!

We certainly need a sub. I don't understand the mechanics of a roll-back so I don't have a comment on that.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

As far as I understand, the command to go AI cannot be reversed. Thus it would be necessary to rollback to a previous turn, where the nation in question is still under human control. However I'm not sure why a two-turn rollback would be needed, as I think Pan went AI this last turn. In any case getting a sub to play Pan would only be possible via a rollback. I think there might also be additional problems if Pan had set a password, I don't know if it's possible to check that before deciding. (I may be wrong on all this but this is my understanding)

I'm also not entirely sure of the details of a rollback, but I'm sure Valerius can enlighten us, if it is decided that a rollback is preferable to having an AI Pan. A rollback would entail very little in-game hassle to me, as I'm not currently engaged in any real conflict. The situation is of course different for those who are in a decisive war action (Shinuyama and C'tis at least). My preference for a rollback stems mainly from the fact that I would possibly be getting a big advantage which I feel is unfair. (Of course it's also possible that AI Pan would kick my behind :P )

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Well the situation for C'tis is pretty straightforward, I may have bloodied Shinuyama quite heavily the last few turns - but it has cost me almost all the troops I have left. The war was decided early when Shinuyama won a couple of major victories. All that is left is sticking it out and being as big a pain in the b*** as possible.

This also opens up an option - C'tis wont last long. And I've really enjoyed playing with all the people that are left in the game. So instead of joining a new game, perhaps I could take over Pangea? Even if it's Manead micromanagement hell, I would really hate to see this game go haywire.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Yes, exactly. I'm not one to give someone a hard time if real life circumstances change and they don't have time for the game or even just lose interest - but if you are a major power at least show the other players some consideration and let them know they need to find a sub.

Anyway, it looks like everyone supports finding a sub for Pan so I am going to roll back one turn (Avari is correct that the command cannot be reversed). BTW, I was mistaken about needing to roll back two turns - I was thinking in terms of a player being eliminated, not one going AI. We may well only have to roll back one turn. And if that's the case then we can re-host using the same turns everyone already submitted last turn - the only change would be sending Pan's turn without AI orders.

Just to be clear: when I roll back you will be sent a turn file from the llamaserver - please ignore it. There won't be any need to complete your turn again.

Also, how about Drog taking over Pan's position and we set C'tis AI? This seems like a good solution.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Drog is to be commended for his willingness to fight to the last man, err.. lizard, instead of dropping when he lost a big battle. I'd be happy to see him pick up Pan.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Yes, drog is the lord of last stands in cbm_retold.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Honestly I think an AI pan would give you such an advantage as ULM that we either group to oppose you or concede. Mostly I say this because C'Tis and bander before him have played VERY well, taught me a lot by the ideas and rearguard actions they fought (and I paid for those lessons in troops, mages and position) that I will be a number of turns getting reorganized if/when I defeat C;tis, which as well as he has played could still be a while.

The fact that all three opponents who are defeated or close to it fought till the end until there was nothing left to fight with was great! And the level of sportsmanship is well above what I have read happen in some other games, truly a great first MP game so far.

Now as a newbie game I want to state this has been a great experience whatever happens next. If a rollback is needed to continue I am fine with that.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

If Drog wants to that would be great, he has been one of the reasons this was a great learning game for me and a very honorable opponent.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I have no objection whatsoever to Drog switching to Pangaea. I think it is an excellent idea.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I'm very glad to hear that! :)

It looks like we'll be able to fix this problem with minimal disruption. I rolled back the game and quickly completed a turn for Pan and then rehosted. You should all receive a new turn 36 shortly.

I think the safest thing to do is delete your .2h and .trn files from your Trinity folder and save the new .trn into that folder and then play that turn as normal. This way we avoid any issues with the old .2h file mistakenly being sent in, which can definitely cause problems.

Then, if there are no objections to Drog taking over Pan I'll switch it to his e-mail address and then send in the AI orders for C'tis myself.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Just to be certain, the turn 36 file I received for C'tis, should I play it and submit? Or just wait for the coming Pangaea turn?

I might also need a slight extension to get a grip on my position as Pangaea.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

No, please ignore the C'tis turn. I will submit that turn with orders to go AI.

But please send me your e-mail address so I can make the change on the llamaserver.

Of course; just let me know how much time you'd like. Thanks for taking over the position!

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Ok, I changed the Pan/C'tis e-mail addresses and resent the turns. Once the C'tis turn arrives I will set them AI.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Worthy opponents, Pangaea is under new management. Now I can guess that i'm war with the winged ones, but frankly the notes of the previous administration is somewhat lacking. Please PM me any deals that you have with Pangaea and I shall honor them.

Sincerly Drog

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

We've reached turn 40, so as per the game description I've changed the hosting interval to 72 hours.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Drog needs a bit more time for this turn so I've postponed hosting 24 hours.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Sorry for the stale turn 47, we had company and that caused the problem. I am back and running again.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Drog, you need to submit this last turn even if you got murdered by that monster, ulm. Or else it's gonna wait another day and a half for you. :(

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Just saw this. I'll send in Pan's last turn myself in case Drog doesn't check the forums before the next scheduled hosting. Drog, thanks again for subbing.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I see your next hosting is scheduled for the 25th. If anyone needs extra time over the holiday weekend let me know and I'll postpone hosting.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

As a precaution I've postponed hosting 48 hours. If you end up not needing the time, no harm done.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Sorry for the delay folks, I had done most of the turn and then must not have saved it!

Anyway turn submitted, and Merry Christmas..

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Hylobius, are you still playing? I saw that you have staled the last two turns...

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Hylobius last logged in just a few hours ago so I sent him a PM asking about the game.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I'm back. I was on a little island in the Caribbean over Christmas and I knew that I would not have frequent access to internet, but I was not expecting power outages as well :doh:

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

We seem to have a problem, we are PAST the deadline, I do not have my turn in, the turn is not processing!

I am finishing my turn, because no warning messages have been sent I thought I still had time (been very sick the last 2 days).

I will get my turn done, working on it now, but this is a CRITICAL turn. I hope it is accepted! I hope it does not process while I am finishing it....

If you get a chance please delay the hosting, even though it has past...

(Confused)
Ragnoff

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Ok, My turn is done and the system says it is accepted!

If JotunHeim can get his turn in we can see if the game will host...

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

It looks like we got lucky. When the llamaserver has problems (like not sending out reminders) it postpones hosting as a precaution. I think that's what happened here (which is why the hosting is now set for Sunday though I didn't delay it), which helped us avoid a very bad stale.

But this brings up the question of hosting interval. This game is kind of unusual in that once Jotun is eliminated there will only be two players left (usually there are still other nations around when games end, though they may not be in contention for the win). Do you and Avari want to continue with 72 hour hosting or increase the interval?

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I just sent Hylobius a PM since without reminders being sent out he's probably not aware the turn is due.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Hehe today was indeed quite confusing, with the turn timer overrunning and all. I don't know whether that was working as intended or not, but most importantly it appears that everything is fine now. This is indeed arguably one of the most critical turns in the game for Ulm and Shinuyama, as our game-long NAP is ending and the long-anticipated final war is about to begin :D

About the hosting interval, I had also thought about whether to increase it. Of course it depends also on how Ragnoff feels about it. For me the current 3 days is usually enough, but occasionally I feel rushed and I fear it may get worse as our two superpowers start clashing.

I would thus be in favor of increasing the interval if Jotunheim is eliminated, perhaps by a day or two (or even more?). This would be of much help with cases of major real-life stuff intervening etc. With quick hosting on, most turns would probably not take longer than thus far, as I'm sure both of us will be eager to see the game moving forward.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I can agree with this, I too think most turns will be 2-3 days, but just in case we can lengthen once Jotem is gone.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I'm not dead yet :D

Turn is in sorry about the delay. There was a message on the server a couple of days ago about a delay until a patch was installed and that we would need to patch our games, so I was on hold until we heard more.

Jotun

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

A new turn has arrived so the server seems happy again.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Ok, so after Hylobius has made Jotun's last stand I'll increase the hosting interval by two days. As mentioned, you won't usually need this time but it will help avoid stales, which would be very costly at this point. And with you both motivated to bring things to a conclusion we won't run into the usual problem of extending hosting intervals (where people wait until close to the deadline, meaning the extended precautionary hosting time becomes the effective hosting interval).

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I see the game hosted and Jotun has been eliminated so I've changed to a 120 hour hosting interval.

Hylobius, please send in your last, blank, turn as the server will expect it sent in (after the next turn hosts Jotun will no longer appear on the list of nations). Thanks for playing and for fighting it out to the end!

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Thanks for the game guys and thanks to Valerius for hosting.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

So, how is the grand final battle progressing?

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Several elemental royalty, a few tartarians, a few other lesser SCs and a bunch or troops have died. So far with the exceptions of a few quickly reclaimed remote attacks the war has been exclusively on Shinu soil. Ulm has also knocked down a few of my Globals and has about a 75 gem/turn lead as well as over 1K lead in gold. I do not think the issue is in doubt, I believe I will lose.

However in the 2 biggest battles we have had I have killed a great many troops and this last time 35 mages with few losses, so a few more battles like that and things could change..

However, I believe the gem lead is insurmountable, especially as the only time I had gem parity was when I had all 5 globals.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Yeah, I've learned a lot from the last few turns, for example that normal troops in general, and Ulm's heavy infantry in particular, are indeed quite worthless at this stage of the game :D Apparently when faced with a few dozen water elementals (thanks Caelum ;) ) and Grip of Winter for good measure, the only thing they can do is keel over and die. Losing that number of mages would make me very queasy if not for the fact that Ulm's basic smiths are not only cheap and numberless but also not very effective. Of course it could also very well be that I just have no idea how to use them effectively.

I have also learned that sometimes the random number generator is your friend after all, with my sideshow of a few Mind Hunts sniping two Water Queens (if I'm not mistaken) on the first turn of the war :) Naturally all subsequent Mind Hunts have been completely useless.

My gem lead is substantial and I have a few tricks up my sleeve, but so far I've been pretty much stumbling ahead so we shall see. In any case I hope this will be an excellent learning experience and as fun as possible for both of us :)

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

I figured I should leave some sort of legacy, and vengeance by proxy seemed appropriate.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Congrats to Avari!

This turn he killed over half of my Sc, including my god, none of whom are now replaceable. With a better than 2 to 1 gem lead, huge gold lead, 3 or 4 to one SC lead and the only one of us now able to summon and equip SC's, and 4 or 5 to one active forts he has achieved a solid victory.

I was just never able to come back from Jotunheims attack, and could not convince Jotunheim that Ulm was the bigger threat! Although I eventually defeated Jotunheim, he crippled my development in the midgame

I had a great time a learned a good deal. I do hope that there is some answer to Tarts I will learn, it seems that once Ulm had the Chalice and GoH in addition to the gem/province lead there was nothing I could do, it was just a matter of time. Avari did a great job with the initial attacks, and despite several early victories on defense, Avari pressed me in enough different places that those victories could not be exploited and became meaningless.

Great Campaign Avari! Very well executed, and a well deserved victory!

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Thank you very much for your praise :) Although I'm not sure that I would credit my campaign strategy as much as my admittedly huge lead in resources. I do agree that after the events of the last couple of turns, the outcome seems pretty clear.

As we have agreed here and in private correspondence that the game is over, I suppose Valerius can end the game on the server unless Ragnoff has second thoughts in the near future. Thank you very much to everyone for playing and to Valerius for hosting. This was an excellent intro for Dominions MP, and of course the outcome is a huge positive surprise for me :)

I think I'll write a bit about my game in case someone is interested. I struggled with my start, with poor neighbouring provinces and one of them held by independents that I couldn't figure out how to beat at that stage (blood vine druids). When Bandar Log rushed me early on, I was almost sure that I would be the first to fall. Indeed his elephants advanced all the way to my capital before I managed to research Blade Wind and destroy his army. He also killed the blood druids for me, which was nice of him.

At that time I also entered into the Ulm-Shinuyama alliance that was to last for almost the entire game. With Shinu assistance I conquered the Bandar lands relatively easily. After that it was smooth sailing for me. When C'tis attacked Shinuyama, I harassed C'tis for a bit but otherwise I had a long stretch of peace in which to build up.

I had decided to attack Pangaea, as he was big but seemed to rely on maenad hordes which I anticipated would be a soft target. Just as I was about to attack, Pangaea switched hands in the infamous AI-going scandal. I delayed my attack a bit but went ahead with it anyway. To my surprise Pangaea could not put up any resistance at all and I conquered all of the Pan lands in a very short time. Only in the very end did the new Pangaea ruler inflict a serious loss on me. His last marauding stealthy army of Pans managed to paralyze and soul slay my Earth King with Ember, Barrier and other assorted expensive gear.

After that Caelum attacked me, no doubt realizing that I would attack him anyway. His icy mountain lands fell quite rapidly as well, as he had been fighting Pan for the whole game as far as I can tell, and I was much stronger.

By this time I knew that the game would end up with me and Shinuyama duking it out, just as we had planned in the beginning ;) The only other nation left was Jotunheim, who to my relief decided to attack Shinuyama instead of me. I agree with Ragnoff that Jotun's choice quite possibly decided the game, giving me time to build up while causing great attrition to Shinuyama.

When I finally decided to break the NAP with Shinu and attack, I had a considerable lead in gem income and was summoning and equipping tartarians consistently. I had much difficulty at first with my conventional armies, but then I realized that SCs are the definite way to go. As the game now stands - and as it will end, it seems - I have snatched Gift of Health with a huge number of gems, killed the Shinuyama god and have 10+ tartarians who are making their way into Shinu territory when they are not freaking out in various ways.

In summary, I would guess that I managed to come out top in this game because of diplomacy first and a good pretender second. I had read many people say that MA Ulm has to take an awake SC pretender to survive early rushes. Despite that I chose a rainbow pretender with moderately high astral. My rainbow pretender helped in early research, and later on it made possible for me via boosters to forge and cast almost anything in the game. I reached Const8 first and got all the good artifacts. In the midgame I also conquered a site from Pan that allowed me to recruit A2S2?1 mages, which was a godsend as I was most lacking in just those paths. In the end they weren't game-changing but did help against Shinuyama with mind hunts, arrow fend and assorted other A/S goodness.

I also think I made relatively good use of Ulm's only real strength (forging). In the end I had about 15 hammers and the Hammer of the Forge Lord in constant use, although it didn't seem to me to be nearly enough at times. I also had two pairs of Rings of Wizardry and Sorcery, the +3D artifact sceptre, the Chalice, Magebane and Aegis (which were never used), a ton of assorted boosters; and of course a crapton of Lightless Lanterns, which coupled with dozens and dozens of smiths gave me a big research lead in the crucial midgame. I didn't get to cast Forge of the Ancients at any time though, as I always had more pressing needs for earth gems. I suppose putting that up would have been much more cost-effective, but such is the way of the newbie.

Well that's my perspective of this great game. It was really fun and I didn't get too worn out at any point, but I never thought it would take this long for me, and I am happy that it is over. Thanks to everyone again for a great intro into Dominions MP!

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Congratulations to Avari on the win. I think Avari is correct that it was diplomacy that won the game for him. When C'tis was defeated I had to decide whether I should attack Shinu or Ulm. I knew that I had no chance to win the game, and that whoever I attacked then the other would probably win the game. I had a NAP with Ulm and Ulm had been in constant communication with me, particularly when Pan had attacked me with a NAP in place. Shinu I had little contact with, no NAP, and when I contacted him after Pan jumped me through the NAP I received no response. Also Ulm's forging was keeping my Skratti thugs geared and it did not seem right to turn on him with weapons that he had produced for me.

Thanks to Valerius for hosting, I learned a lot in this game.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Thanks everyone for playing (and for the AARs - interesting to find out how things played out) and congratulations to Avari on the win! Based on your comments it looks like this game illustrated just how important diplomacy is in the game - probably even more important for a weaker nation like Ulm.

Also, just as with the recently concluded FirstBlood, I have to say you're a good group. Actually, I feel I've been very lucky with the quality of the players that participated in my trio of newbie games. :)

I'm glad it was a fun intro to Dominions MP and a good learning experience and I look forward to seeing you all in future games.

Re: Trinity - Newbie game - Running
 

Congratulations Avari, it was fun playing Bandar Log against you even if you got the upper hand!