Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I added the Babylon 5 engines and reactors posted in the B5 mod thread.
They seem to work fine with the custom ship sizes I had made. Still have to try the "useless ability" solution to the large sized engines proposed in that thread.
Sci-Fi Crossover Mod

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Hey, do you guys want me to generate a population modifier scheme for you?

In the B5 thread, I posted a 350KB file (SE4 handles it no prob) to paste into Settings.txt

What it does, is:
a) Plantary construction starts at 10%, and increases by 1% every 50M people. Homeworlds get about 400% Production, while new colonies are very slow builders. (Fear the Sphereworld!)
b) Resource production rapidly increases to 200% production, then fades back to 50% as the population grows into the multi-billions. The actual curve is a streched sine wave.

Any simple pattern you want can be done, and I can generate previews for you to compare.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Once we add the 'useless abilities' to the engines, you'll be able to cut and paste it over http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hoping to have weapons done in the next week or three...

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Those population modidifiers seem to be meant to give more importance to homeworlds. That sounds realistic for B5 and ST, but not for SW where a single planet as unimportant an in SE4. Too bad settings.txt affects all races.
Sounds interesting, but it's not one of my priorities. And even if it is we could just use the same modifiers you posted there.

Yep I was considering making engines of similar sizes for SW races. Maybe they should use the same "useless abilities" to make patching easier.

I'm slowly working on SW techs, and the B5 mod seems to be progressing well.
Now we need someone able to work in Star Trek technologies.
Atrocities? anyone?
Come on I know there are a lot of trekkies out there!
Even if you don't have experience modding you should be able to discuss and give your oppinions here.
I have a few trek weapons copied from that Babylon Trek Wars site. Just need someone to revise them, divide them by race, order them in a tech tree, and add a few more if necessary.
Add Trekkish engines, shields, sensors and other miscellaneous techs.
Many races have too few ship sizes. Some have only 1 or 2.
Propose more sizes to make races more functional. (That doesn't mean giving the Federaion, SSD sized ships. Contrast between races is good.)
Also I had ordered ships by size, but some are supposed to be small and advanced, reorder the techs and give those sizes some advantage such as to hit bonus, speed bonus (less engines per move for their size or mov bonus) or some other built in ability.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

What kind of spread do you have on weapon damage?
If its not too great, you could try the crystalline effect for trekkie shields.
Get them to deflect 90% of the damage of most weapons back into the shields, but make the shield generators "armor".
When you make ablative armor, it should have fewer hitpoints than the shield generator "armor", so that it gets hit first... that means the ablative components must be smaller in order to maintain a good HP/KT ratio.

PS: regarding the pop modifiers, my point was that I can easily change any of the parameters. If you want SY rate to increase rapidly and reach a max early, no prob. Any function that I can type in to the computer is fair game.
The big thing here is that I can generate 2000 modifiers, so you get smooth production increases.
Only a 1% change between any two modifers if you want.

[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Has there been any thought of adding stuff from other scifi universes after the babtrekwars stuff is compiled?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Honor Harrington: Puke was talking about this at one point, don't know if anyone is working on it though.

Starfire Universe: Pres Elect Shang was talking about this boardgame (if I remember correctly) that was the inspiration for SE IV, would be fitting to be added at some point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif No work on this as far as I know.

Battlestar Gallactica: Cyclons and Colonials are both viable, though there aren't any special weapons for them as of yet.

Andromeda: Someone mentioned this in passing, but nothing has been said about it since.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

"Honor Harrington: Puke was talking about this at one point, don't know if anyone is working on it though."

That would be.. hard. HH shields/drives are fairly bizzare- the front and back are *totally unshielded* while the top and bottom are invincible. Plus the laser-head missles (drones?), and of course the dual-FTL system- warp points *and* hyper drive FTL.

EDIT: that and the difference between ship sizes (a dreadnaught has *40 times* the firepower of a destroyer)- at one point, a single dreadnaught kills four battlecruisers in a single broadside. Ow. That was pure firepower, no manuvering..

Not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be difficult. Especially since SE4 doesn't have weapon/ship facing effects.

Phoenix-D

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Adding Wing Commander stuff shouldn't be hard.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Sounds good. Adding anything is possible if someone is willing to help creating the mod.
We need ships sizes, weapons, engines, sensors, shields or whatever other components they use.

No one has voluntered to help with the Star Trek part so far. I thought there were many Trekkies around.

Maybe we get to add Honor Harrington, Starfire, Battlestar Gallactica, Andromeda, Robotech, Flash Gordon and Wing Commander before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Here's the starwars Version of ECM.
Since it also works against yourself, it explains (and includes) the "targeting penalty" of sw weapons.
When both sides have jamming sensors, stacked Sensor interference can be quite large.
To prevent abuse of stacking I made it available only to ships and bases and added the One Per Vehicle restriction, so you can only have heavy jamming when large fleets are involved.


Name := Jamming Sensor I
Description := Device used to fill nearby space with static and random signals, blinding combat sensors, however they also work against yourself.
Pic Num := 13
Tonnage Space Taken := 20
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 600
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 400
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Sensors
Family := 19
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Sensor Countermeasures
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Sector - Sensor Interference
Ability 1 Descr := Makes targeting 10% harder in the sector. Be careful when using many jamming sensors in the same sector since their effect stacks.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 10
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

We've already discussed about propulsion, most of the other techs are pretty straight forward weapons, shields, ect.
But there are a few techs I'm not sure how or if to add

Ion Beams (and Ionic Torps)
Normal damage against shields, disable unshielded ships (can't move, can't shoot). Used to make boarding by a relative vulnerable shuttle a piece of cake.
Large ion cannon emplacements are the only "weapon platform" weapon seen in star wars.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

You can't have multiple damage types on one weapon, so having ion beams do all of that is impossible. The only way to accomplish that would be to have an Ion Beam A, Ion Beam B, etc, (or some other, better naming device), where each type does one of the damage types you want Ion Beams to do.

I'll try and do some Trek stuff.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You can't have multiple damage types on one weapon, so having ion beams do all of that is impossible.<hr></blockquote>Assumption is true, but the conclusion is false.

Use "Only security stations" as a damage type, and add 1 point of security station "boarding defense" ability to any components that should be disabled by the ion cannon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

So then I could make a self-destruct device that is specifically destroyed by a specific weapon just by adding "1 pt of boarding defence" to the self-destruct component?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Not specifically, since any other defense components, such as defense turrets (and possibly crew quarters) will be destroyed as well.

And the shields will absorb hits from that weapon before the components get wrecked.

I say crew quarters, possibly, because they have an innate 4 points of boarding defense. They don't have the ability listed, but they have the effect.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Realistic ion beams should do no real damage. They just negate energy to systems rendering them inoperable but leaving them intact. Basically the ship is left completely helpless but intact and will be fully working again once energy is restored. It should maybe be disrupt movements and weapons reload, destroy supplies or something like that.
I already knew that such a damage type is impossible.
The idea of destroying boarding defense and adding that ability to other comps is interesting.
When you destroy what vital component, movs and fire are delayed. Life support? crew quarters? bridges?
It would do some damage but if you can only destroy only one or a few comps you can shoot with ion without fearing destroying the enemy and also disabling it.
Most ships will carry something with repair ability anyway so that limited souldn't be a problem.
There would be no point in having hardly trained stormtroopers tough if anyone that could fight against them would already be dead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


Some other techs

Interdictor
The interdictor is a specialized ship that generates an artificial gravity well or interdiction field. That field is used to prevent nearby ships from jumping into hyperspace and is one of the few ways to intercept a ship moving throug hyperspace.


Super techs (if ever included they must be extremely hard to research and build)

World Devastator
Normally used against planets, but can also be used in space.
Ships equipped giant with vacuum cleaners powered by miniature black holes that absorb ships and structures and turn them into raw materials they use in their on board factories to build units, and enlarge the devastator itself.
Short range weapon with negative supply use?

Sun Crusher
Small 6 men ship not only capable of destroying a star and everything inside, but also with a molecular armor strong enough to survive the explosion.
Can't make it survive but a small (maybe built-in) star destroying ship is possible.

Galaxy Gun
Giant space station that shoots hyperspace cruise missiles that can move faster than ships and carry a warhead capable of destroying a planet. Could proably be somekind of special drone.


Centerpoint Station
Not sure about this. It shoud never be buildable but maybe existing in some scenario.
Built eons ago by a forgotten culture, this station is located in the center point between the twin planets of Talus and Tralus in the Corellian system.
It's powerful gravity manipulation components were used to build the corellian system dragging planets from other systems.
It was used lately to create devastating gravity disruptions in far away systems.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I was actually having similar problems with the ElectroMag weapons in the B5 Mod, I wound up making some Shield Only, some Engine Only and some mess the ROF delay.

I like SJ's idea about the "Only Security Stations", though it might be better to make it the "Only Engines" (since one of the things the Ion cannons did was disable the ship without damage) and add that to components that should be effected - thereby translated "Only Engines" to "Only ElectoMag/Ion". This way you can add the ion effect to the game without taking away from the boarding parties http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Problem is that IIRC only engine damage type bypasses shields.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Plus, you can't add propulsion ability to components that you want the ion cannon to disable without having them count towards your engine limit or push the ship around.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Aha, hafta think before I speak...

[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Please remind me what’s the difference (if any) between having all your life support, crew quarters or the bridge destroyed. Both during combat an after it finishes.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Losing bridge (& aux bridge) in combat: lose half your movement.
Lacking bridge outside combat: lose half movement.
Losing crew quartes: lose half movement.
Losing lifes support: lost 75% of your movement.

These are all multiplicative, so losing bridge and crew quarters has the same effect as losing lifesupport.

If a ship has lost all three, 32 movement points get reduced to 2 MP. (anything less than 32 leaves 1MP)

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

How does this sound,
Ion Beams can damage:
*Life Support
*Bridge
*Aux. Bridge
*Shield Regenerators (or shield generators that include regeneration ability)
*Point Defense Cannons
(Different races and Groups may have their own Versions of these comps, and all of them will have to include the boarding defense ability (unless they are specifically invulnerable to ions, eg living ships). Not sure if hide it or make it look like an advantage.)

The "disabled" target will be dramatically slowed down and unable to raise shields or shoot down fighters.
Then a slow and vulnerable assault shuttle (fighter) can safely aproach and board it.
The target woud still be able to fire its main weapons, but their chance to hit a fighter are low.
Boarding parties would still have to overcome crew quarters innate defense to be succesful. (And big ships will have many crew quarters, making them harder to board)
After the battle, (boarded or not) total damage of the disabled ship would be relatively low and could be rapidly repaired.


What about making Interdictors warp point manipulation ships. Not sure if make that a comp or built-in to restrict it only to Interdictors.


BTW I've been looking at the damage types listed in the componentes.txt heading. I couldn't find any other dam type we could use, but I have an OT question. What's the difference between Increase Reload Time (Mental Flailer) and Disrupt Reload Time (Energy Dampener).

I'm working on the propulsions tree, it will be divided into Sub-Light (engines) and Hyperdrives (emergency pods) that will be researched separately.
I want ships to have 4-6 normal movs (no Movement Bonus to any engine) and then use hyperdrives to give them 5-10 emergency movs. So they have 2-3 movs in combat but when using hyperdrives can have 9-16 strategic movs. (they will compensate their low speed in combat and short range in weapons with fighters and longer range tractor beams)
I'll probably use max engines in their hulls to restrict normal speeds. I know I could decrease efficiency of engines or increase eng per move of hulls, but in known ship schematics engines are a small portion of total size.
I like the complex propulsion tree in the B5, and like how you made ships depend on reactors.
I want to make something similar in sizes and the way reactors work, but simpler in tech trees so primitive Atomic Drives and then Implosion Drives are fastly replaced with Hoersch-Kessel Ion Drives (each type with their respective reactor) that only gets slowly better in time.

This would also make starwars sub-light propulsion inferior to others propulsion. HK Ions may get cheaper (and lower manteinance) than any other engine since that's the explanation why they are the the most used engine in the galaxy even if other techs are available.

I was thinking about making Atomic Drives 1.5x price and size, Implosion Drives 2x in price and supply usage and HK Ion Drives equivalent of standard Ion Engines and get cheaper at higher levels.

To give some consistency, it would be nice if Atomic Drives were similar to B5 Fission Engines and HK Ion Drives similar to standard Ion Engines.
You see the problem, Fission Engines in the B5 mod are not only equivalents of standard Ion Engines in performance but also cheaper in price.
That's probably because in that mod Standard engines are still avaiable and they needed a reason to make them worh using, but would you be willing to change / let me change this detail?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

If No One did Star Trek right now I'll add some ideas. (This is for Federation)

Weapons:

Pulse Phasers: Meson BLasters with about 5X damage but crippled accuracy.

Phasers: Anti-Proton Beams with No damage loss with distance.

Photon Torpedoes: Anti-Matter torpedoes with added range and damage.

Quantum Torpedoes: Added range.

Tri-phasic Torpedoes: 2X the quantum torp damage.

Tricobalt devices: 1.5X damage of the QTorp but heavily crippled fire rate and range.

Armor & Shield:

Ablative Armor: Crystaline armor with slight added damage resistance but no shield energy.

Metaphasic shields: Phased shielding with slightly added strength and slight recharge rate.

Ship Systems:

Transporters: Serves as Mine Bay, Satelite Bay and cargo bay with storage area of 50 Kt and can load cargo from ships and planets 1 sector away.

Tractor Beam: Can be used to tractor all spaceborn made crafts to range 1 from the ship.

Replicators: Able to repair damaged/crippled ship in space without the help of space yards or rapair bays, Only effective for engines, weapons and command. Engines recieve half of the storage capability, weapons only 75% effective than original. Half of supplies are used for replication of needed materials. Requires Engineerings.

Warp Core: Quantum Reactor but this generates supplies up to 80% of the original supply capabilities rather than make it limitless.

Computer Core: 1 more movement added to engines. 80% accuracy in weapons. 2 range boost to all scanners inside ship. Size should be ridiculously large to compensate for the tremendous bonuses.

EPS Conduits: 30 Extra shiled strength. Decreased hull strength due to the volatility of the conduit.

Shuttle Bay: Serves as fighter bay but if engineerings is installed, can build fighters ONLY for 50% extra build time rate.

Engineerings: adds ability to repair and build craft without the help of repair bays and space yards.

Deflector Array: Can enter harmful sectors, warp gates, and systems with half the consequences Except black holes. In Black Holes Deflector array can help hold the shields together.

Holodeck: Increased Crew Experience.

Security: Doubles as Boarding party and Security Stations but half the effectiveness of both.

Scanners:

Scanner Array: Long range scanners with boosted range.

Command:

Battle Bridge: Auxillary controls but with added size.

Captain's Yacht: extra 10% combat bonus to ship.

Engines:

Ramscoop: Generates 50 supplies for every storm or sun. Adds 75 supplies to the generation of supplies if Warp core is installed.

Impulse drives: Jacketed-Photon engines with extra supplies capabilities and extra movement bonus.

Nacelles: Adds movement bonus. (Size should be large)

Ship Classes:

Escort: Scout
Frigate: Nova Class
Destroyer: Defiant Class
Light Cruiser: Sabre Class
Cruiser: Intrepid Class
Heavy Cruiser: Akira Class
Battle Cruiser: Sovereign Class
Dreadnought: Galaxy Class

Space Station: Drydock/Regula Starbase
Battle Station: Spacedock
Star Base/Base Ship: Deep Space 9

Light Carrier: Curry Class
Carrier: Yeager Class
Heavy Carrier: Akira Class

Light Fighter: Class 9 shuttle
Fighter: Delta Flyer
Heavy Fighter: Danube Class

Sattlelite: Midas Array

Drone: Genesis Device

Weapons platform: Phaser Turrets

Race Emblem: Federation Combadge Late 24th century
Race Picture: Federation Combadge
Human
Race Flag: UFP Flag

Structures:
Starfleet Academy: Doubles as a ship training facility and Fleet training facility.
Starfleet Command: Extra combat bonuses for every ship fighting in the system.
Starfleet Communications: Extra 10% experience for fleets. Extra 10% combat bonuses for satellites.

Well thats it...

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What's the difference between Increase Reload Time (Mental Flailer) and Disrupt Reload Time (Energy Dampener).<hr></blockquote>At a guess, either nothing, or:
Increase reload stacks over multiple hits, disrupt does not.
...just a guess.

Re: Trek shields & armor.
I reccommend making both the shield and armor components like the B5 armor mentioned in the other thread. The shields should have a moderately powerful crystalline effect, allowing breaches on most hits, and weakening as the armor & shield emitters are stripped away by damage.

I'll whip up some example components for you guys...

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

TerranC,

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Nice ideas. Looks like the Feds will be fun to play. The only thing I can think to add would be Dilithium Crystals. A very small component that is ultra expensive in radioactives. Somehow this should make the ships faster (move bonus? Emergency speed?)


Some comments on your many many ideas:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ablative Armor: Crystaline armor with slight added damage resistance but no shield energy.

Metaphasic shields: Phased shielding with slightly added strength and slight recharge rate.<hr></blockquote>

I'd guess they would have vanilla shields prior to metaphasic shields in the tech tree.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Transporters: Serves as Mine Bay, Satelite Bay and cargo bay with storage area of 50 Kt and can load cargo from ships and planets 1 sector away.<hr></blockquote>

You can do that!


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Replicators... Only effective for engines, weapons and command. Engines recieve half of the storage capability, weapons only 75% effective than original. <hr></blockquote>

Is it possible to specify which components are repairable? Is it possible to repair weapons partially (only 75% effective)? Perhaps have the Replicators repair just one or two components (see organic armor I think) but use a ton of supplies.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Warp Core: Quantum Reactor but this generates supplies up to 80% of the original supply capabilities rather than make it limitless.<hr></blockquote>

I'm guessing that 80% is for the advanced Version. Maybe the early Versions of the Warp Core would have a lower %?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>EPS Conduits: 30 Extra shiled strength. Decreased hull strength due to the volatility of the conduit.<hr></blockquote>

Very cool. I like the idea of the fragile hull strength... very accurate I think to the Star Trek realm. ONce the shields are down.. yur ded!
Super vulnerability to shield bypassing weapons, which I think is just fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'd guess that this would be an integrated component (ie. type of hull) rather than the plug-n-play type of component.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Holodeck: Increased Crew Experience.<hr></blockquote>

I'd just suggest making this an energy expensive component to make, and that it would gobble up supplies like crazy.


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ramscoop: Generates 50 supplies for every storm or sun. Adds 75 supplies to the generation of supplies if Warp core is installed.<hr></blockquote>

Very nice. I'm not sure you can set supply generation per storm, but a great idea!


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Nacelles: Adds movement bonus. (Size should be large)<hr></blockquote>

I always thought of Nacelles as just the plating that shielded the warp engines... sort of a "don't cook the crew" structure.


I love the ideas, and please just take my yammerings as constructive discussion. If you can make these techs, components and ship types happen, I guarantee I'll play the Feds.

jimbob

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

TerranC: You've got some good ideas, but no implementation experience. For starters, read the ability.txt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

- The tri-cobalt you describe would never be used. Make it 7x the damage, same size launcher, but one shot per combat, and there will be some use for it.
- All the "one sector away" things will never happen, and you can't tractor you own ships. however, the multifunction abilities can easily be done.
- Also, stay away from any construction ability on minor components. You can only have one per ship, and will be able to build full size ships, not just units.
- Repairs are always perfect. Components are all or nothing in SE4. Anything you can build can be repaired anywhere, except for emergency propulsion & supplies, which are hardcoded to require a full-fledged space yard.
- For the warp core, I would suggest letting it store a year's worth of supplies, rather than generating supplies. Describe it a package deal with some antimatter pods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
- Computer: everything but the +2 is possible.
- EPS: can't reduce hull strength unless you give it negative hitpoints, and Last I checked, SE4 chokes on stuff like that. Try this one out yourself with the latest Version
-Shuttle bay & engineering: spaceyard dealy as above.
- Deflector: harsh reality time.
- Holodeck: that ability would spread to other ships in the same sector, unless you mean a fixed, one-time boost. In that case, make it a 3% bonus for to-hit offense & defense.

Mostly great stuff, I just had to point out the problematic points. Very impressive overall.


+++++++++++++++

These should be a good start for the trek defenses:
Obviously, shield tech should be cheaper/faster improvement than armor tech.
Also, note that having lots of trek shields does not make you invincible. Once the initial 100% resistance is worn down and the crystalline starts to kick in, then the shields only block 50% of the damage. This then rapidly decays to zero as the generators get smashed for being "armor".

Name := Ablative Armor I
Description := A multi-layered material designed to selectively vaporize during weapon impacts, carrying energy away from the hull.
Pic Num := 211
Tonnage Space Taken := 1
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 30
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := All
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Armor
Family := 5301
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 0
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Armor
Ability 1 Descr := Is hit before most other components.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Trek Shield Generator I
Description := Generates an intense, but localized gravitational distortion, disrupting incoming weapons fire.
Pic Num := 211
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 25
Cost Minerals := 100
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 300
Vehicle Type := All
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Shields
Family := 5401
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 0
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Shield Generation
Ability 1 Descr := Can withstand upto 50 ADU before weakening.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 50
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Shield Generation From Damage
Ability 2 Descr := Can withstand upto 20 ADU impacts without significant damage.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 20
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Shield Regeneration
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 20
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Armor
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 0
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Edit for clarity.

[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Hey TerranC good to see your enthusiasm and someone thinking about the Star Trek part.
Some things:
*Think of wich of these technologies should be shared with other star trek races.
*Be careful with balance!!! All what you're suggesting looks super-powerful. It doesn't need to be better to be worth researching since they will not have access to standard techs. Most technologies should be custom variations with their own advantages and disadvantages.
*You don't have to copy the engines+emergency pods model I suggested for starwars. Star Trek ships are fast both in strategic and in combat. Or you were refering to the mov bonus ability used in engines and solar sails?
*I already made a set of custom ship sizes for the federation. Note that tonnage of some ships is scaled because they were too big or too small. Please revise it and suggest changes/more sizes. I'll update my trek shipset to match with not included pics for those sizes later (or allow someone else to do it for me).
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/files/sc...ci-ficross.zip

[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: Andrés Lescano ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Andres:

You mentioned using the Assault Shuttles to capture ships, can you put boarding parties on fighter class ships? I know you can't do cargo (had tried that). I thought I tried this in the B5 mod (made a breaching pod class fighter) and it didn't work correctly.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Trek ship engines:

Most Trek ships should be able to have 3 "engines". They should have a Warp Core, which would be one per ship and give from 4-6 movement points. The Warp Core should store 10,000 suppplies and should be large. Then, add Warp Nacelles, which make from 1-3 movement. Ships will have a Core and 2 nacelles. Some ships, like the Heavy Destroyer, will have 5 "engines", allowing for 4 nacelles. Add Impulse Maneuvering Thrusters, which generate from 1-3 combat movement.

Add a Fusion Reactor/Anti-matter Storage Pod that stores 500 supplies and generates from 50-150 per turn. Add Bussard Ram Scoops that generate 100-300 supplies per star, and add some stars to the Nebula Systems.

I'll type my ideas on Trek ECM in the afternoon.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

For B5 I split it up into Reactors and Engines (thrusters).

The engines/thrusters were only for movement and held no supplies, the reactors handled all supplies. Kinda sim to IF's idea for trek.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Well I really don't have experience as a MODer... They were just ideas that I sorta put together from Star Trek Canon info.

Thanks for the "Positive" input http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have some ideas about Klingons and Romulans but I think Ill read some technical info before I post them up.

edit:
Now... Based on everybody else's part, I take back My idea of Transporters and Tractor Beams and Deflector... at least the ideas that are crazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess my ideas seemed too strong because most federation ships have "all eggs in one basket" doctrine. I'll think of some penalties.

Holodeck Idea is dead. I guess I was being to vague with the idea of Replicators.

Replicators can only repair First 3 Priority components, if that is possible, that you have set, And it should use a LOT of supplies.

Engineering is also scrapped. Deflectors also... But for warp points only... Frankly I think it should give some bonuses in fighting in storms. (Just to put some Canon facts in)

And Suicide_junkies idea of Tricobalt devices sounds better than My idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Weapons and Shielding could be shared, along with transporters, Since all the other races seems to have phasers, torpedoes and transporters in the Series.

And I didnt copy off your ideas. If I did, Mucho sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And I'm not so sure what you've said about the ship sizes andre.

And Imperator... In Trek facts Bussard scoops were only designed as an emergency measure so it could limp back to a starbase. I guess the amount of supplies it generates could be increased but no more than 100.

Ok... whew... That was one heck of a rant.
Thanks for looking over my Ideas.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: TerranC ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Add a Fusion Reactor/Anti-matter Storage Pod that stores 500 supplies and generates from 50-150 per turn. <hr></blockquote>Is there any reason why a "fuel tank" would fill itself up?
Last I checked, there were no perpetual motion machines in StarTrek http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>And Imperator... In Trek facts Bussard scoops were only designed as an emergency measure so it could limp back to a starbase. I guess the amount of supplies it generates could be increased but no more than 100.<hr></blockquote>

That's true, but if they don't generate enough resources, then nobody will use them.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is there any reason why a "fuel tank" would fill itself up?<hr></blockquote>

I typed this in a hurry this morning, so I didn't think enough about what I was writing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I should have called it a Fusion Reactor/Dueterium Storage Tank. The component is supposed to represent both the reactor and the fuel storage compartment for that reactor. They could be separated into a Fusion Reactor comp and a Dueterium Storage Tank comp, but that would just be silly. You can't fuel a reactor without some fuel, and storing fuel without any reactors would not get you any power.

Adding a separated Anti-Matter Storage Tank that gave some supplies would be fine, cause the anti-matter is used in the matter/anti-matter fission reactor that powers the engines. The dueterium fusion reactors are used to power other on-ship systems.

The warp core should eat up a moderate amount of supplies, and the nacelles should use tons of supplies and have 0 storage. That way, people would be more likely to use some reactors and storage tanks on their ships.

And now for ECM:

In Trek, ships hardly ever miss. When they do miss, it's usually because the target out-maneuvered the attacker. ECM devices don't seem to be useful or in existance. You can't get rid of ECM in SEIV, however. So instead, lower Trek ECM devices effectiveness, and add some "ECM" to the warp nacelles. About 5-15 should be good. Then, give the Impulse Maneuvering Thrusters 10-30 ECM. This does create the problem of Trek ships getting extra ECM in the beginning of the game. Any suggestions on how to balance this?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
ECM devices don't seem to be useful or in existance.<hr></blockquote>

I Heard somwhere that Defiant Class use ECM generators against the Borg.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ 01 February 2002: Message edited by: TerranC ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Fyron:
What exactly are you trying to do with the supplies here?

Way back when, me and Magnum came up with a nifty Trek propulsion emulator for SE4.

Impulse drives give combat movement.
Nacelles give 1 standard movement.
The M/ARC (aka warpcore) provides 4-7 "bonus" movement.
Escorts & frigates require 1 Engine per move
Most ships upto say Battleship size require 2 engines per move.
Battleships take 3, dreadnaughts take 4.

- Any ship with too few functional nacelles is dead in the strategic water, no matter how good their reactor is. (bonus movement is useless without at least 1 standard movement)
- Putting four nacelles on an LC is fine: you get 1MP more, and backups incase of combat damage.
- Include an "internalized" nacelle design for ships like the defiant, where the nacelle is more expensive, but much more resistant to damage (or is perhaps not counted as "armor")

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I've started work on a Battletech mod while I wait for SE4Gold (unlike TechMod, I don't think BT will use many, if any, of the new stuff).

So, should I try to make it mesh with this mod as well? If so.. is there anything I can download to get an idea on what I need to balance against? I don't have a heck of a lot of information available, so I can be decently flexible..just trying to get the feel of it down, not the numbers.

Would it even add anything to the mod? BT focues more on ground invasions, so strong troops. Good fighters as well, and if I can figure out a way to model them, dropships (large shuttles, esentially- they do all the lifting to and from planets).

Other characteristics:
-No shields
-Ablative-type armor (the troop armor can be damaged by rifle fire, yet take direct hits from hypersonic slugs..the warpship armor is similar)
-Fairly slow on a strategic scale, middling speed in combat (hard to do, seeing that afterburner abilities don't stack)
-Weapons are powerful but fairly inaccurate

More later..

Phoenix-D

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

There is also all the stuff in BattleSpace - gives a bunch of ships to move the troops and stuff around as well as slug it out.

There are also a lot of (aerospace)fighters in BTech.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

SJ:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What exactly are you trying to do with the supplies here?<hr></blockquote>

I don't really know at this point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I was throwing out some ideas to get the Trek part of the Mod jump-started.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Way back when, me and Magnum came up with a nifty Trek propulsion emulator for SE4.<hr></blockquote>

Did this ever get past the drawing-board? Do you have a text file with some sample components? If not, don't worry about making a new one, I'll do it. What was the max number of engines you let ships have?

TerranC:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I Heard somwhere that Defiant Class use ECM generators against the Borg.<hr></blockquote>

Where did you hear that? I've never heard it before.

P.S: How do you make the quote tag say who originally made the post (short of manually typing in "posted by...")?

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

RE: quote author thing:
If you click the double-quote button, you'll see:
[ quote]originally posted by Mr X.
[ qb] quoted stuff
[ /qb]
[ /quote]
I suppose those stand for "quote body" or something.

+++++++++++

With the supply thing, either go with the Standard SE4 "unmeasured reactor power and limited supplies", or convert it to "limited reactor power and unmeasured supplies" by making "reactors" store supplies and have the ship's supplies maxxed out at the beginning of each turn.
You can't really go halfway, 'cause then it dosen't make sense http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In this mod, the races are different enough to make using both methods acceptable (as long as a particular race only does it one way).

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Did this ever get past the drawing-board? Do you have a text file with some sample components? If not, don't worry about making a new one, I'll do it. What was the max number of engines you let ships have?<hr></blockquote>All the datafiles have been lost to the mists of time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif , but not the memory...
The engines would have no hardcoded limit.
Their limits would be set by combat and economic worthyness. Spending 50kT on two nacelles to get one more MP is not usually worth it, but can be used in certain situations for a tactical advantage.
The economic limit is the minimum required, but you could design a really fast 6 nacelle Frigate if you really wanted (+5 movement, no room for luxuries) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
(did I mention I hate arbitrary limits? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

"There is also all the stuff in BattleSpace - gives a bunch of ships to move the troops and stuff around as well as slug it out."

Right, but I don't *have* Battlespace.. I'll have to ad-lib it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Sithspawn!!!
You're right Val, assault shuttles don't work. When you give it the order you get a "This vehicle cannot capute." error or something like that. Not sure why.
I already knew that transport fighters wouldn't work, something carring cargo inside a another cargo bay sounds pretty werid.

Ion Cannons seem to work fine though. So unless I make some small shuttle sized ship, capital ships will have handle the boarding (maybe I can describe them as short range fast shuttles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

Hyperdrives are working fine, to repair them I made a 0 building 1 repair space yard called "Hyperdrive Motivator" and I also gave it an armor because it always seems to be damaged first.

Ok basics of these mod are:
Most standard techs are moved into a "Standard SE4 tech" (that once all races get their own techs should never be selected) and every race has acces to exclusive techs via for example a "Star Trek tech" plus a "Federation tech" racial traits.
That's why I asked wich techs would be shared with other races, those go to the "Star trek tech".
If necesary we can add a racial trait to add techs shared by a sub-group but not all Trek races.

About shipsizes:
One of the technologies only available to races with the "Standard SE4 tech" is Ship Construction, so each race gets a set of custom ship sizes under their exclusive techs.
That's also one of the few techs I already started for all races, since I want it to increase the contrast between races.

For example the Federation gets
Saber Class Starship (310 kt), Defiant Class Escort (355 kt), Norway Class Starship (622 kt), Miranda Class Starship (655 kt), Intrepid Class Starship (700), Excelsior Class Starship (2022), Akira Class Starship (2066), Sovereign Class Starship (2075), Nebula Class Starship (2082), Galaxy Class Starship (2156)
Peregrine Fighter (27), Danube Runabout(83)

Note that tonnage was made using known tonnage or estimations and scaled up or down using a variable scale to make logical SE4 sizes.
(I used the same variable scale for ship from all races, big federation ships like a GCS are half of its real size, but bigger ships form other races such as Earth Omegas or Imperial Star destroyers to a 10th part (~5000kt), and bigger ships are even more reduced, so don't complain)

It needs to be revised to correct:
1- I had ordered ships by size not by tech, that need to be corrected and add some penalty to big low tech ships and bonus to small high tech ships.
2- There are many some needed sizes missing, including stations missing. Some other races have only 1 or 2 starships.
I'll update my ST-Fed shipset to include all needed pictures once revision is finished (using neo-standard names if necessary, like I'm doing with THE Empire).

At least I'm trying to make things balanced with original SE4 techs, so you are not in a great advantage or disadvantage when playing against someone with the "standard SE4" racial trait.

I had posted a link to an old Version that includes all racial traits and ships sizes. I'm revising the starwars size and added sw and b5 tech, but the part that concerns startrek hasn´t changed.
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/files/sc...ci-ficross.zip
I'd post an updated Version but I'm having a little FTP problem with my site and I'm still awaiting for my host's reply. And I'm too lazt to post it here or somewhere else.


Some ideas that may help:
Torpedos can be different from standard SE4 topedoes.
If you make beams like APB (wich is very strong among SE4 weapons) but better, compensate it with some disadvantage like bigger size, or longer reload rate.
Giving Transporters fighter/sat/mine lay/load abilities sounds like a good idea, but I'd make it small and just let it put the cargo in normal cargo bays.
Unless it stacks, it't ok to have Holodeck training bonus in all the sector, crews beam on board to use the it.
ECM can be replaced by just making their ship hulls have lower to-hit chance compared with ships of the same size of other races.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I Have Some ideas about those Ship scales.

Sabre - +40
Defiant - +95
Norway - -122
(The fact is Norway is "classified" as a diplomatic frigate... thats what the writers at Star trek says.)
Miranda - -55
(Old ship.)
Intrepid - 0
Excelsior - -522
(Also OLD ship.)
Akira - -16
Sovereign - +25
Nebula - -38
(Since its a Kitbash (Shipkit + Bashed-up) of Galaxy and older than Sovereign)
Galaxy - +44 (144 if you are thinking of using Galaxy Refit)

Peregrine - -7
Danube - -13

Now these are merely an IDEA. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I'm not sure about all of TerranC's modifications, but I agree with decreasing the Excelsior's size. It is an old ship. And besides, you have a HUGE 1300 point gap between the Intrepid and the Excelsior/Akira. You need something to fill in that gap.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Why would you need to reduce the size? If it is available early, but requires more crew and has a poor ECM hull rating, no worries.

I don't think you need to name the hulls that strictly, either: "Excelsior" is a class of ship, not a hull size.

You could encourage the use of hulls with newer images just by continually reducing the crew requirements, improving the base ECM, and basic supply/cargo storage.

Even if the ship is smaller, players will choose it for the side-effect advantages, and just build more of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

That's what I suggested order them by tech and give big early ships some dissadvantage such as more life support/crew quartes more engines-per-move than other ships their size, to-hit penalties , ect. and go the other way giving some advantage to small high tech ships.
The sovereign can still be smaller than the galaxy but have advantages to make it better, or even have more usable space inside by using less crewq/lifesup.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Right. What about getting the AI to choose the best available hull from among the big old hulls...
Would a separate design for each hull, listed in the proper order in the AI_design_creation.txt work?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Leave that problem until we want to patch the AI.
BTW, we still didn't try the "useless ability" for big engines.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

BTW, There are some sites on the web that offer schematics, graphics and specs of Trek universe ships.

One of them is:
www.ditl.org

Just to let y'all know.