Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I would say, that we need to plan for Atlantis, but we should not venture into the sea until we have contained the other land AIs. Right now they are an enemy of our enemies, and that makes them our friend. I plan on knocking them back into the sea when I see them on land, but I'm not going to divide resources between chasing them into the sea, (which would be an expensive venture for me), until I have secured my position versus Tian Chi.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

One thing of note: In my experience the AI tends to take it as a declaration of war if you take a province from them. I don't think the AI understands the idea of a limited engagement / regional conflict. If you take a land province from Atlantis, you'll probably find yourself at war with that AI, who will attack all up and down the coast. If you do this too early, you may be the only nation he's at war with. Granted, he might still pick a fight with you anyway, even if you don't take provinces from him, but if you do I think it's a near certainty.

BTW, re: Trolls, I finally got around to installing the Debug mod, and it's quite useful. Out of curiousity, I tried to model your fight with the Trolls, based on what you've said here about your bless, and using a standard summoned troop of trolls as the OpFor (2 Moosen Trolls, 5 War Trolls & 10 Trolls).

Good news: It looks like 19+ Unmarked (plus a handful of furbolg) can take the trolls, but not without a few losses.

Bad news: A dozen or so Unmarked cannot take the trolls - Unmarked got stomped.

The trolls, it turns out, are really buff (any veterans reading this are probably laughing at my awesome statement of the obvious). The part I forgot about earlier was the protection. The lesser, "crappier" trolls have prot 15 (on the body, don't recall what's on the head) - that's pretty tough for a high hitpoint, regenerating opponent. The buffer ones (the War Trolls, and Moosen) have prot 23!! Zoinks! Your dudes with their Str20 and Dmg3 spears are only doing ~23 damage (+/- due to contested DRN). Umm, Houston we have a problem.

Also, while your dudes have some reinvig thanks to your E4 bless, your dudes still pick up fatigue faster than the trolls in my tests. Since no side claimed victory (or even a significant advantage) in the first round or two, it became a grind, and after a few rounds fatigue starts to come into play. Fatigue means crits, which (especially against high damage dudes like Trolls) means dead Unmarked. Unmarked get some crits in on the Trolls too, but it's a huge grind, with attrition being the deciding factor, so the side with numerical superiority will probably win.

Conclusion: Overwhelming force, or buffs / evocations are probably a good idea for this fight.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Giants. I need some Giants for this.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I have been slow to get things back in order after my power went out but I'm reconnecting now.

I am sitting mostly pretty in the NE corner of the map slowly building up 3 elephant/archer armies. I've taken a few provinces but I just realized that the river here has blocked my progress. Lizardmen and Mammoths ahead... unfortunately option #2 is a defended Ramparts...

Option #3 takes me along the northern border of the map. I'll head that way soon but for the moment I am bringing 2 forces together to wipe out the lizards in order to bypass the Ramparts for now.

My pretender is a dormant rainbow crone...I think. I may haave opted for a mage before realizing that the riding pretender mage does not have a foot slot :(

My strategy is to expand with military for a brief time until I have enough income to support a hastened research path. Forts and site-searching for another short bit with a bit of forging thrown in. A few key items that I am shooting for and I will be much better equipped to explode outward.

Of course... the AI may have other things to say about that.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I'm back and have played my turns.

Sitting at 5 provinces so far. I aim to start building my second castle either next turn or the one after that.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Damn Doo, you are way ahead of me, I've only got 3 provinces, but I have issues. Taking on the Draco Lion this next turn, wish me luck.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Just finished my turn. Have 4 provinces besides my capital. But, money is SCARCE :{ I've got 3 of the sites searched with 4F/4E/4D/1W/1N/4Priest and only found 1 site so far but its an ok one with 1 air gem and 1 fire gem. I took that single lake by me. Big mistake. It has like zip for income and only one troop to recruit but its a 9000gp modded indy...arggh...maybe I'll find a free fortress in there if I can ever spare a site searcher. Just now seeing signs of Jotunheim nearby looks like he'll be my first conflict down the road. How effective is skellispam against the giants? I dont think my nationals are gonna be up to stomping them in the numbers I can field.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I gotta build me a fort too. Always so many things to spend the gold on... :P

Thanatus, I checked it's stats on the DB and I think you'll take that Draco Lion, assuming it isn't backed up by a surprise bunch of ?

Mauxe, once you hit evo2, are you thinking of doing the shock wave thing with your Eagle Kings? I've heard that some people like that as an expansion method with EA Caelum.

I don't how well skellispam will work on the giants. I've never tried skellispamming before.

Sounds like my expansion is in the same neighborhood as the rest of you (4 provs so far). Monkey arrow catchers have low morale and like to run off, even during a winning fight. It's par for the course, but it slows down expansion. And then there's me being cautious because of the random crazy stuff in some of these provinces. Of course, I did score some decent magic items off these guys already (earth boots, dusk dagger, shroud).

I'm doing an attack on a province w/ ~20 Ko-Oni this turn, and I'm going in without any blockers/arrow catchers. Just my Yavana flying solo (backed up by my prophet). I wasn't sure about the Yavana vs. Ko-Oni matchup so I ran a test w/ Debug Mod and All Ages Mod, and it turns out my blessed Yavana pretty much destroy Ko-Oni, so this should go fine (*finger crossed*). Of course I didn't do the scout / retreat routine beforehand, so hopefully there isn't some super scary surprise in addition to the Ko-Oni.

In other news, I need more scouts. I don't have a solid idea on how fast the AIs (specifically Niefelheim) are expanding. Lack of graphs can lead to blissful ignorance, or nail-biting depending on your temperament. :)

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I agree. I am worried about how fast the AI's are expanding as well. I hope their running up against the tough indie's as well or things could get ugly fast. Deep down I just know the giants near me already have 12 provinces and they all have gold mines and amazons. But, then I'm an optimist.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Only lost one Firbolg against the Draco Lion. I've decioded to not fight the Trolls right now and turn the army north. I think the losses even if I won would be crippling right now. I am going to wait until I research a bit more and can shock their asses and have a good amount of giants to thump them.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

With no graphs its creepy, not knowing how the AI's are going and wondering if you will come up against a Juggernaut.

I'm developing a real fear of the dark...

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I was the last to process on last turn so just letting everyone know I'm done. New turn posted as well. The NPC's just keep getting tougher and tougher. Found a celestial emperor with an 8 and a 9 in magic paths and a @$$load of magic items. Just a touch of curiosity is there ANY way to charm these guys? This Emperor would be worth gambling 10-15 charm capable units dying. Is there a tip or trick to do it for C'tis?

With any luck I'll be building my second castle soon. Seem to have found the -heim's Capital they have a Colossal Head. Money is soooo tight I really hope the AI's hold off on any rushes against me. Research seems to be going VERY slow compared to SP games. I've only reached midway in const 1 so far.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Dispossed spirits to paralyze yet not kill the target while nature mages are spamming charm. Also other units to keep him busy which won't kill the target such as vine men(not vine orgres).
However the tough part would be reaching level_7 Thaumaturgy before one of the AI opponents carelessly kill this treasure.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Thanks Jedi. With the number of really notable npc commanders I've seen in such a short time I'm fairly tempted to pursue this tactic.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

You might also add fly or blink (or those sandals) to a mage so they can jump to the back of the enemies forces and are more likely to target a commander with the spell.

But I find that Charm or Hellbind Heart are spells that work best in one-on-one situations. Scripted to a seducer, or an assassin, or used in the Arena.

You still might want to invest some army into knocking out some of his support units in case the spell causes him to do battle with his own troops. But I still get better results this way than trying to use such spells in combat.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 10 is up.

Endo, what magic paths did he have at 8 or 9?

The craziest indie province I've seen so far down in my neck of the woods is one to the NW of my capital. A lich leading ~50 undead (longdeads, ghouls, skeletons, etc) is the filler. There are 5 fossilized warriors hanging with that lich (size 4 undead, with prot 27 on the body, 20 on the head, MR15, Mor18, Att12, Str22). And along for the ride are 2 basilisks. Never encountered any basilisks before - that gaze is scary! A rg20 aoe5 attack, w/ prec 100, it does 15 AN damage! The good news is that MR negates, but still. Ow. So, I don't think I'll be attempting that province real soon.

I guess I should acknowledge the province w/ ~120 devils, amazons and fire elementals and fire snakes too. It's led by an arch devil and some demonbreds. I haven't even bothered to do a retreat scout on that province, it's too ridiculous for me to worry about yet. Also, no point in bothering with the retreat order for a province like this. Devils = dead scout on turn 1 of combat.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Just finished my turn but one more player left. That Celestial Emperor was lvl 8 astral and honestly dont remember the other, although I'm thinking it was nature.

Building my first castle this turn. NO money for anything else ...did find a nice batch of sites in my last province total of 5 gems produced from that one. Hit con2 so gonna load my pretender up with a horror helm, barkskin amulet, eye shield, errm and something else i think..cutting into my research for a turn but with how tough these indies are turning out to be, I really don't want to gamble him without some insurance.

I really want to work on the suggestions given for charming. So I'm gonna try and work out a plan for that. I don't think I can reasonably work my way into using hell bind heart due to NO blood access. Would very much like to trade for some blood slaves. Not sure what the usual gem per blood slave ratio is typically in trades?

I'm thinking a group of 10 C'tis shamans with boosters to N3 spamming Charm. With vine men as guards so as not to kill the lovely future slaves. Should I equip them with Vine shields as well? If I can get enough blood slaves I'll work on making BlackHearts, but rather hate the idea of "wasting" them on the shamans. Isn't there a Summon Succubus spell? Can't seem to find it in the manual.

Hmmm alot of mental energy on a secondary objective...lol need to focus on what will work against the giants when it finally moves to war.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I just took an indie fortress.
so that was nice.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Nice! I'm jealous! :)

Turn 12 is up.

Congrats to TNN for picking up the Renegade Sage. I guess I didn't bid high enough. :)

AI intel in the south:

Atlantis has made landfall - he's got a pair of provinces on the coast of the southern continent (on NE coastline - provs 65 & 68).

Niefel's southern fort (22) has so far only managed to expand into 5 neighboring provs (that I can see, moving scouts up to see if he has done more westward expansion crawling the southern edge of map); he hasn't done any northward or eastward expansion in the last few turns. Looks like he's blocked from expanding further north on the east side of the great north-south river by 2 provs: 1st is the province I previously described (fossil warriors and basilisks) and the 2nd is a troll province (~40 trolls).

As of turn 12, I've got 11 provinces. In a few turns I will have conquered all of the indies I reasonably can at this point, and the easiest expansion at that point will be through an AI. My choices are Abysia to the east or Niefelheim to the west. I'm just starting to scout Abysia; I've got eyes on his fort at 54 and he hasn't done any expanding south, not even the provs neighboring his fort. I think Niefel is the way to go, since he threatens both C'Tis and I. Atlantis has a pair of provinces along the coast to the north of me, but I have no intention of starting a war with him.

My first fort just started going up last turn (turn 11), but it's a hillfort so it's cheap and quick to build. My research has been really pitiful, but now that my income is starting to be decent, I should be able to crank out a few forts and pick things up. I'm stumbling along towards alt3 (once I'm done researching alt2, that is), and then I'll start on construction research so I can get hammer production rolling (and I can kit out thugs). And oh yeah, site searching. I should get on that. :o

Last turn the monkeys and the sacred yavana, along with their newly recruited human light infantry (arrow catchers!) defeated a province defended by several sages and a great sage. The great sage was an astral mage of tremendous power (s7, 8 or 9 - not sure if the path boost from communion or banner shows up..? he was showing s10 thanks to the gear), but the spells he chose to employ against my forces weren't all that effective (mindburn spam). The monkeys were pleased to relieve him of 3x slave matrixes, a crystal matrix, a starshine skullcap, a banner of the northern star and one pair of boots of the messenger. Not a bad haul. I suppose with enough research there might have been a way to turn him to the service of the monkeys and their god, but that wouldn't happen any time soon so it was decided to put him to the falchion and let the monkeys take his stuff. Slave matrixes are shiny. :)

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Atlantis has made landfall on my continent too. My growth has been slowed due to the Trolls on my doorstep, but in 2 turns, I will have researched Alt1 and Evo2, and will send in 3 giant kings spamming thunder and 15 giants and 15 unmarked to destroy them all.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Done my turn, new turn up.

Dagan was a priority for Astral, I'm recruiting Mictlan indy mages in my second castle hoping to get the 10% +1 Astral or +1 Fire types. If I get the Astral I'll let Dagan go without any fuss. Of course you could try and outbid me on him, not much I can do about that ;)

Niefelheim is sieging an indy castle at 77.

At turn 12 I'm at 9 provinces (including starting province). I was blocked from going towards Tien Chi by tough indies, now I see there is a port route from 130 to 159. I'll go that way.

Research-wise, I've done Alt 1 and Evo 1 and 2. I've found a 20% bonus Conj site for future summons.

My pretender has just awakened.

All is good.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 13 done. Posted turn 14.

Sigh kinda hemmed in by Niefel and tough indies. I have to choose between the dragon and his lackluster minions and a devils/scorpionman/chaff indie to attack all out. Dragon indie would allow me a narrow expansion area until Niefel hems me in...he's focusing very heavily along the south from what little i can see...50 unit expansion squad. couldn't scout it. I'll post exact numbers on the two indies next turn doing the retreat scout thing again to get the comparison. I've not taken a province in two turns and its starting to get worrisome. Have researched con3 though. YAY dwarven hammers..now if i just had the earth gems and not still using my pretender to expand/search.

I was reading the stickie thread regarding how to combat Niefel, and a specific mention of C'tis using Darkness and skellispam was mentioned. Was gonna focus on con6 and then Thaum7 for charm but now thinking I should go straight to Darkness. On a side note i saw mention of an amulet that was referred to as the skellispam amulet. Is it that week little one that only cast animate skeleton for one skellie? Is it even worth the waste of the gems? All my sauromancers can cast animate skeletons and that just seems to be a better way to go by far. But i could field some indie commanders with the amulets if they were considered to be helpful.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I'm sending socuts, and I think Tien Chi is moving toward Tir, not me. I don't see them expanding my direction yet.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I am just slowly expanding in my own little world up here to the NE. My Caelum has a little slower expansion method but then it gets rolling. Right now I am probably at about 9 provinces.

My pretender has awoken and I saw immediately that I utilized version 1.0 of pretender design. Currently my Caelum design is up to 2.0 which will be a set-back but should be fine.

(1.0 is the mage-on-a-horse who does not have any boot wearing feet to speak of - this puts a damper on my +E boot strategy. 2.0 uses the crone who is slower... but she gets there on her own two feet. I have a second method but it just takes a little bit of time. Luckily due to my starting location it looks like I have that.)

Also - now that my initial expansion armies are built up I am able to start my research spam - which is essentially Eagle Kings (with the occasional...uh.. guy I can'r recall but only costs 80 gold.. for when I need to bolster a few more troops).

Looking fwd: to how this plays out.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Tien Chi is in 108 and surrounds but not on 101 (a port to cross to the southern lands).

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

No worries on Dagan, Doo. You outbid me fair and square. I was just looking for more research, but there are better long term solutions (more forts!). I actually have lots of access to astral with the monkeys, so you can probably put Dagan to better use than I could. For some reason I thought he had some air. I think I was confusing him with Obscuro.

You found some indie mages! Nice! Maybe I shouldn't tell you this, since you're trying to crack into astral, but I have crystal sorceresses right outside my capital. Only just conquered that province, and discovered I can recruit them. They're a1s1. :D

Interesting intel on TC surrounding 101. Hopefully Niefel keeps possession of 77 for the time being, so we don't have to worry about TC crossing over to the southern continent and helping Niefel against C'Tis.

Endo, I've never given any of my guys skull talismans, but it looks like you get a single skeleton to start, and the ability to cast animate skeleton for a single additional skeleton per cast. That spell takes 30 fatigue, so on a non-deathmage commander who has no re-invig, you'll probably get 4 castings before he stops, so that's 5 skellies per commander w/ a skull talisman. Doesn't sound overwhelming. I guess if you have a large death gem income having 10 indie commanders with these (for 30 death gems, if you're using hammers) for 50 extra skeletons per fight could make a difference in some fights. I would think you'd still want some death mages along to cast the better skelliespam spells to fill out the ranks, but maybe the talismans mean you can leave one or two of the mages you would've brought at home so they can continue researching..? I've never played C'tis or tried the skelliespam thing, so this is all just me thinking out loud about something I have no experience in. :)

Atlantis attacked Niefelheim in prov 60. Niefel is laying siege to an indie fort there, and I guess Atlantis wants it too. Atlantis sent a pitifully small force though (4 coral guards & 3 deep one spearmen, backed up by 6 indie archers), given the Niefelheim force (a baker's dozen of living pillars, a gygja, and a niefel jarl). The living pillars are sz3 sacred amphibious units, decent armor and shields, and they seem to do well with Niefel's bless (a4f4d9e9n4), but then who wouldn't? Niefelheim won that fight easily.

In any case, it looks like those 2 have started irritating each other.

Which is good, IMO, because Niefelheim is actually pretty big. He still hasn't linked his 2 starting forts, but regardless, looks like his total province count is in the 15-16 area. And between his native jotun skinshifters and these sacred amphibious troops, he's got some buff guys stomping around.

Abysia's southern fort continues to wallow - no expansion. I have a scout pushing north to investigate how well he's expanding up by his northern fort.

On the monkey home front, my 1st fort is up, 2nd & 3rd building. My research is starting to suck less thanks to my pretender who is now awake and the new fort(s). I'm mobilizing for war with Niefelheim.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I'm finally going after those trolls. Wish me luck. Only 20 soldiers going in, bu more than half are Fomorian Giants, and the rest are unmarked. Prophet to bless, Giant King and Nemedian Sorceress to cast Aim and lightning bolt spam. Hope it works.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Done my turn, new turn up. Good luck with the trolls :)

I have Dagan, then remembered my pretender has 4S magic, still he has better stuff to do than spam Pendants of Luck.

I tried attacking two Sauromancers (with indie chaff) and they Skelli-spammed my army. I'm trying again but with merc archers (in White). With no chaff guard they should go down.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

The Trolls kicked my ***!

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Game summary for Tir na n'Og from turn 1 to turn 16:


It begins...

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...n1Itbegins.jpg

I'm not going to devote much time on reporting these early turns, here is a brief summary. Basic strategy is to recruit lots of these..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...dhewarrior.jpg

led by these..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...hechampion.jpg

For research I'm looking to recruit these when I can afford it..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...asorceress.jpg

but when low on gold I'll recruit these instead..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...0beansidhe.jpg

Expansion occurs, I avoid the tough looking indies, still run into some tougher indie leaders that cause some surprise..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/T5battle.jpg

To combat these tougher indies I recruit elite mercenaries to support my armies..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...lmercenary.jpg

What?!?!

At least I only spent 45 gold on this... guy? Lets say goodbye..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...mercleaves.jpg

Ha Tien Chi, he's missing seven of his fellow freaks!

Site searching we find many goodies including this..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/t11site2.jpg

Should I rush the Queens of Stone Age? No, Tir na n'Og doesn't have enough Earth access to rock out.

Turn 12 arrives and the hero of our game is found..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...hcommander.jpg

My first indie stealth commander, oh thank the gods! No wait, thank this guy..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...istheSheep.jpg

His back-story: Chris was a wizard who longed to be a sheep. Being a wizard is fraught with danger, you get sent into battles to be mere communion slaves. I have yet to see a single sheep in battle in the Dominions universe. Thus the desire to be a sheep. Unfortunately Chris was not of Mictalan, but he was no turkey when it came to the magical arts and was able to transform himself into a lich. His next transformation will be to a lich sheep, and then to his dream of being a sheep.

Also on turn 12 we win a bidding war..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...ganrecruit.jpg

and have..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...e/t12dagan.jpg

Astral access. I forgot Chris has Astral, but who cares when on his first turn of searching Dagan finds..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...aganscores.jpg

Totally worth it!

Such heroes attract heroes..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...ugharrives.jpg

10% forge bonus and fire access :)

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...me/t15lugh.jpg

We got stomped by two Sauromancers spamming the undead, these ladies are hired to help out..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...cherswhite.jpg

Which brings us around to turn 16. Graphs are off so no sneak peaks as to where I am compared with others, instead here is my gem income..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...6gemincome.jpg

research..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...16research.jpg

and map..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/t...ame/t16end.jpg

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Darn... I think my peaceful life might now be shattered...
I took a province the same turn that Abysia did and ended up spanking them.
Don't think the AI is going to take kindly to that.
Will the AI accept gems or something as a gesture of peace?

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Sorry to hear about the unsuccessful sally against the trolls, Thanatus. :( I think you said early on that there's about 50 of them, is that count accurate? What's the breakdown (How many Moosen? War trolls? Trolls?)?

No idea. Once things spark off, it may be impossible to dissuade the AI from waging war. If you send him gems, he may well use those gems against you.

In any case, if you're capable of spanking his troops, why not continue doing so?

FYI, he isn't doing anything currently with his southern fort. Doesn't appear to have been very successful in linking the two - the southern fort that he started with has to date done no expansion whatsoever. So you're basically just dealing with the northern instance of Abysia. Kick his butt.

How's your evo research looking? What's your army composed of?

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 17 is up.

AI news: The war between Niefel and Atlantis rages! Atlantis has kicked Niefel off of the siege of the indie for in 77, and is now sieging that fort (no intel on force composition at this time). Atlantis has also moved in behind Niefel's line of advance along the coast, and now surrounds Niefel's army which continues to siege the indie fort in 60.

The PD in Abysia's southern province finally noticed my scout and put an end to him. I am sending a new scout to keep an eye on them.

Kailasa update: I continue to prepare for war with Niefel. My army is forming up, and once my border fort is complete I intend to attack. I'm thinking that while Niefel's northern presence is being harrassed by Atlantis, his southern holdings are vulnerable and (hopefully) forfeit. I'm not particularly eager to take his norther stuff yet though, since I like having him (and those tougher indie provs) as a buffer between me and Atlantis.

Unfortunately, in my home province a foolish young monkey played with alchemical reagents he should not have and burned down my lab. The lab is being rebuilt, but this will prove an annoying delay in my research, which wasn't looking to set any records as it was.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 17 done Turn 18 posted.

Lost my prophet :{ But took a tough devil/scorpion beast province. Turn 18 saw me crank out 7 skulls and Im gonna rush madly to Darkness for some skellispam against Niefel. Hmmm just had a thought on how to solve a problem with my northern fort. Niefel is massing right next to my border. Fortunately I have strong heat scales, hadn't really considered a DOM push but now that I realize our heat scales are diametrically opposed I shall give it a definite go. I have strong H3,although expensive, they should do me a good turn preaching.

I've got a few spare fire, water, earth gems for trade/sale also if anyone has a dire need.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I'm low on man power, lost some troops fighting an indie that surprised me with some winter wolves. Atlantis is moving north on land, but I'm, not too worried. Third fort being built. I'm not in a lot of danger from the AIs as of yet.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Let us know how you go, I kinda feel that for some of us its getting to an exciting point in the game. Have you researched Skelli-spam yet?

I am on your side of the map now and will be ready to help against Tien Chi when the time comes.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 19 is up.

Turn 18 AI info:

Atlantis' bless:
f9 (att +4, flaming weap)
w9 (def +4, quickness)
e10 (reinvig +5, prot +4)
b9 (str +4, death curse)

War between Niefelheim and Atlantis continues. Atlantis took another coastal province from Niefel with the following raid force:

Atlantis Raiders (defeated weak Niefel PD + 2x Hvy Cav)
16x Ichtyid Warrior
10x Deep One Spearmen
3x Coral Guard

Atlantis also repelled a Niefel attack on 77 (the indie fort that Niefel had been sieging before Atlantis killed the siegers last turn). TC is in on the action as well, attacked that same prov 77 from the dock prov 101 right after Niefel, but failed to defeat Atlantis who continues the siege. The forces were:

Atlantis Siegers (victorious / continues siege)
12x Living Pillar
1x Coral Pr
1x Mother of the Deep
1x Basalt King

Niefel (defeated / repulsed)
7x Huskarl
2x Hirdman
7x Wolf Tr Archers
led by 1x Gode & 1x Skratti

TC (defeated / repulsed)
28x Horse Brother
21x Hvy Foot (Glaive)
6x Foot (Glaive)
6x TC Archers
10x Indie Archers
10x Jag Tr Warr
led by Indie Cmdr & Noble Cmdr (chariot)

Those living pillars are buff! They pick up fatigue at a crazy rate (10 enc in melee), but the high earth bless mitigates that a bit (half thanks to reinvig 5). They also have a crappy MR of 8, but after that it all looks good. Their prot is really high - prot 23, 26 w/ bless & decent shields, they have 2 attacks (bite, plus magic basalt spear), Str 18, Sz 3, 31 HP, morale 16 base (all these guys had experience). All that in a sacred amphib unit, w/ castle def, darkvision and cold & fire resist 50. Dag, that's some good troop. And apparently there's an indie province w/ them somewhere around here, because Niefel was fielding some of these earlier.

Kind of crazy, but the TC Noble Cmdr w/ his chariot killed a group of 3 Living Pillars via trample off in a corner while the main group was destroying his army - I wonder how he would've fared against the main group instead of that undersized squad of outliers. They probably would've torn him to ribbons. Amusing to watch the weak size 4 trampler take out 3 buff size 3 heavy sacreds. :)

Turn 19 AI info:

And so now Atlantis has taken 101 from TC, and defeated the TC attack on 77 (meaning the TC army of a dozen or so Horse Brothers and small handful of infantry was destroyed when it routed for lack of a place to rout to).

Atlantis attacked Niefel at the indie fort in 60 again.

Atlantis (defeated)
16x Reef Dwellers
19x Deep One Spearmen
5x Coral Guards
handful of Indie Lt Inf & Archers
led by Mage of the Deep, Mthr of the Deep, 2x Coral Priests & 2x Shambler Chiefs

Niefel (continues siege)
13x Living Pillars
4x Skinshifters
1x Niefel Giant
1x Coral Guard
led by a Gygja & a Niefel Jarl (who is now blind)

At the start of the fight in 60 Niefel's Skinshifters rushed in with the Niefel Giant (unblessed) and the Niefel Jarl while Niefel's Living Pillars waited to receive blessing. While the Skinshifters started killing, the Atlantis Mage spammed blindness until he scored on the Niefel Jarl (ouch!). Then the Living Pillars arrived to claim victory. 2/3 of the Atlantis army was destroyed. On Niefel's side, only one Skinshifter survived, and his Niefel Jarl is now blind; otherwise a clean victory.

All these fights are proving that in brief fights at least these Living Pillars really do some good work. But aren't those native Atlantis troops? Where did Niefel get them from?

Abysia scouting up in the NE - my scout can see Caelum territory on the border w/ Abysia. Abysia really is small - he has only the provinces surrounding his fort in the north; has yet to cross the river next to his capital in 99. When last seen, the southern fort still wasn't expanding. Confirmation will be had in the next turn or two as the new scout arrives.

Atlantis has likely made landfall on those eastern shores, but no confirmation of that.

Niefelheim has shown up on my NW border by defeating one of the 2 tough indie provs there (the 2x basilisks w/ 5x fossilized warriors plus small horde of undead chaff). I haven't begun my war with Niefelheim yet - will he preempt me?

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I've yet to see Atlantis on land south of me.

Interesting Abysia is doing little.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Tien Chi is moving toward me on my eastern front. They are one turn ahead of my expected schedule and might cause a disruption in my plans. A disruption!

Atlantis is moving north on land, still not worried, they will just make my expansion south easier I think.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I am pushing south into Abysia now. My expansion army should make short work of the provinces I can currently see - and it sounds liek there isn't much more to worry about. (I don't have a good scouting network with Caelum).

I lost two back to back battles with some indies with my northern expansion army - along with my commander. I whittled them down to just one wraith lord (I think) - but I need to mount another force there soon.

I am in a nice spot in the NE where there are enough rivers and mountains blocking passage that my entire stretch of provinces only has 3 access points.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I saw that province with only one wraith lord, I am one province away.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

You can go ahead and take it if you'd like.
I'll redirect my northern force down to Abysia.
That fight proved tougher than I anticipated...

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 21 is up.

Hows everyone going so far?

I'm intending upon doing this type of game again and would appreciate some feedback about how your finding the pacing, level of AI threat (perceived and/or real), the slower research and anything else worth commenting on.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Well killed an Atlantian scout at my castle in province 56 so their a very aggressive AI and I don't doubt I am on their very near future hit list. Just took province 10 which Niefel had expended ALOT of troops on prior turn so I met typical normal troops and only 1 devil this time. Then they attacked me, soooo not sure if the AI will take it as war or not.

Really, and I mean REALLY starting to hate this mod. The new province I just captured only has two barbarian units and both 9k to recruit.

Building my third fort in the extreme south. Having to waste some death gems on summoning some black servants. But have one equipped with bane venom charm and I'm going to use him to weaken Niefel's capital. My second keep is isolated from my main province keep so hard to get a decent recruitment of mages started there but hopefully next turn i should have a sauromancer there to build a lab. Seriously considering an all out push into Niefel's territory considering his fight with Atlantis.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I don't like the better independents mod either.

I'm scared of the AI. I'm Scared of the independents, lol. I have yet to clear the independents around my starting point due to how hard they were, that kind of blows. Otherwise, I'm having a lot of fun.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Mauxe, I saw that fight you had with Abysia a turn or two ago - the one in which your elephants turned and routed through your Spire Horn Archers. It looked rough. :(

You haven't solicited any advice on this, so feel free to tell me to go stuff it (maybe you already know this stuff), but I noticed something and thought I'd share. That army you sent againt Abysia had a decent chance of stomping them, or at the very least doing a lot more damage. Mammoths are great for cracking heavy infantry (if you send enough of them - in small numbers they can still be mobbed). However, there were 2 problems with that army as I see it:

1. Too many archers.
2. Starvation.

1. Archers aren't likely to perform very well against Abysia. You're going to see a lot of heavy infantry from Abysia, with prot in the mid teens and many of them have shields. These kinds of guys will largely ignore archer fire. Sure a lucky shot will get through here and there, but in general those heavily armored boys aren't going to be much hampered by the arrows bouncing off their armor. Your mamoths are a different story. Their protection is down around 10, isn't it? That's low enough that they could take some serious damage from your volleys, and since tramplers get right in among the enemy, the arrows will be falling all around them.

2. Starvation is an army killer. It looked like all the guys you had in that fight were diseased, in many cases with additional afflictions besides. Starvation causes disease, and also lowers morale by 4! Your mamoths and all your archers were in single digit morale (what was it - morale 6 on the archers, 8 on the mamoths?). No army will give a good account of itself with morale like that.

That area where you're fighting has a lot swamps, which are really low supply. Best thing would probably be to forge some bags of wine or cauldrons of broth. I have nature mages and can forge some for you if you need.

Overall, I'm enjoying myself so far. :) More specifically...

Semirand: The tough indies from semirand have been amusing, but my feelings on them are mixed because I think they've really hampered AI expansion. Usually at this point in a non-semirand game (Winter of 2nd yr), I'd be in a fight to the death with at least one AI, but as it is it seems like they're still sorting out their borders and dealing with indie provinces. Obviously Atlantis and Niefelheim have both done reasonably well in expansion (I don't have intel on TC), but Abysia seems to have been really hampered. This is all really a feeling though. As buff as NTJedi apparently made these AIs, they may yet come out bigger than I realize (and I do expect dealing with Atlantis to be tough), but at this point my confidence is high. Net result, thus far I think semirand has entertained me greatly, but also helped me in keeping the AIs at bay while I get my research up to spec. So don't take this as a complaint, having to be careful / creative during expansion has been interesting. However, I think it may've messed up the AIs a bit.

Hard Research: No complaints. I don't have a feel for the level of research by the AIs, but I feel like it is slowing down the players in becoming uber. I think the pain of this would be more acute on a non-semirand map.

Graphs: I think graphs on would be a good thing, just in terms of measuring the state of things / how well the AI is performing. I can scout out their province growth, but I don't have a good sense of how they're doing in other respects. In a game where you're doing experiments and trying to gauge how well things come together, it'd be easier to see how well this stuff is working if we had graphs.

Better Independents: BI can be a pain for Kailasa. The monkeys are seriously vulnerable to archers, and so more archers is never good news. On the other hand that can present a challenge, and I knew to expect it from the word go. I haven't actually experienced the mega archer horder yet, though, since I'm not yet at war with the AI. BI also means that it's harder to find indie chaff that's recruitable. Some nations don't care about that because their national troops are so much better than indies, but I think Kailasa likes to recruit indies for niche uses. IMO, indie light infantry with their shields make better arrow screens than any monkey troops, but BI makes about half of these unavailable (you can only recruit the ones with javelins - the no javelin types cost 9K). Finding a province with the right kind of light infantry that has enough resources to recruit a decent number (especially with my sloth scales) isn't easy. I lucked out on finding a prov that yields a decent number, but I could just as easily still be hunting for them.

On the other hand, anything that weakens the players while simultaneously improving the AI is probably still worth doing for a game like this. The worst is when you stomp the AIs with no difficulty at all - game over. If the game is presenting us with a challenge, BI probably deserves some credit for that.

Exactly. Scared of the AIs is a thumbs up for the AI buffing. Scared of the indies is a thumbs up for semirand. Scared is good. :) Frustrated is bad. I haven't been frustrated yet - and there has been some fear. That's an overall thumbs up.

AI Buffing: Thumbs up to Doo and NTJedi. :) I haven't been able to measure the full effect of this yet, but in the scouting I've done and battles I've watched, I think the tailor-made AIs are much better than the random AIs you normally get in SP (at least Atlantis and Niefelheim look pretty kick @**). I think all the AIs would've fared better without semirand, but that's just my impression at this point. We'll see how it goes...

AI Numbers / Teams: I know I'd be sweating things more if we had another AI or two on this map, and/or all the AIs were teamed (ie. if Atlantis wasn't distracting Niefelheim). Don't know how the other players feel about this, but Kailasa is actually getting a lot more breathing room than expected since the AIs are busy messing with each other instead of me.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

I do appreciate the feedback. I'm still fairly new to the game and a lot of things still elude me...

Generally I get that "starving" message right after conquering a province. Is the only way to prevent that having supply items (or a smaller army)?

Is there a way to reverse the diseased troop process?

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

If your army eats more supply than what's produced by the province you're in, you get the starvation message. Insufficient supply for even a single unit will give you that message, but how many units actually suffer starvation (and get diseased as a result) I believe to be related to how much the needs of your army exceed the available supply. In other words, if you're only a couple of points over the supply limit of a province, you're probably OK (just don't dawdle there). If your army wants double the available supply, you're in trouble. The exact ratio where it becomes a serious problem - that I'm not so sure about.

Here's a thread that talks about starvation:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35873

The short answer is no.

The global Gift of Health removes afflictions on all friendly troops within your dominion. The unique artifact The Chalice heals afflictions of units that reside in the same province as the unit that holds it. And some units in the game have the healer ability, which allows them to heal units. Some nations have healers as recruitables (Arcoscephale & ?), otherwise if you have high level nature mages and a lot of conjuration research you can summon Faery Queens.

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Faerie_Court
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Priestess

With the possible exception of Gift of Health (and that only when you're operating in friendly dominion), in general if your army is heavily diseased, it's toast. Most human sized troops don't have enough health to survive long enough for you to do anything about it once they become diseased. 10 HP goes away really quickly.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Once they get diseased they automatically rack up other afflictions as well.

Its not uncommon for a diseased unit to have its arms fall off. Disease in the world of Dominions is rough.

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 

Turn 23 is up.