Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

I get a nagot gick fel! error with CBM 1.84, Holy War LE, and mod pack 2 enabled when choosing any age (early, mid, late) in pretender design.

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

You shouldn't (just tested again to double check). Make sure though that you have the latest version of the Expanded Nations Packs, they changed yesterday to v1.01. And make doubly sure that you have no other mods enabled.

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

Thanks Llama, I had not seen your most recent update. :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

I'm going to try and find some time in work today to have a stab at the map, otherwise it might have to wait until late tomorrow, as I'm away for the night. Although I need either Dimaz or Sasooli to let me know if NooBliss's departure has changed anything regarding the nations in the game I need to know about to sort the map. And maybe confirming the final number of players would be useful as well :) (just in case I can't count, or one has unthinkably slipped off Amhazair's well oiled OP)

Although the game can be created (for Pretender uploading) without the final .map file, which might be an idea to speed things along (just remember to switch off the autostart until the map is done)


Edit - Oh, and attached is a slightly updated version of the map file, as I spotted two connections errors. (although still no pre-set starts of course). The image file is the same as before, so isn't included in this attachment. The .map file overwrites the previous .map file I attached (as I don't want to litter you harddrives with map files)

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

Here's the final nation list according to me:

Tien Chi
R'lyeh
Atlantis
Utgard
Mictlan
Patala
Ctis
Jomon (Broken Swords)
Ulm
Abysia
Arco
Bogarus
Marignon
Caelum

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

FYI I'm doing something very similar, for similar reasons profiling a game I'm in which is in its final stages (been working on it for months). Didn't want you to feel like I stole your thunder once you get dug in here. PM me if you're interested in collaborating on that, or by all means feel free to go forward on your own and I'll volunteer to participate on this one.

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

Thanks for the brillient reply folks. I got 3 PMs right away, so, barring a last minute veto by someone I will be going ahead with it. On the other hand, 3 empires is about the upper limit I am willing to faff about with and store on my machine, so your chance to put your name in lights is over, I'm afraid.

@ Baalz

thanks for the heads up and the spoiler on things to come. this is certainly an area where there is room for more than one contribution, and I will still have the distinction of being the first vets LP from a newbies perspective, which I am happy with.

If that is an offer to be a guinea pig, as I've said, three will be plenty, I'm afraid. I don't have as much time on my hands as that crazy guy on something awful who did an entire 10 player game:(. thanks for offering though.

--------------------------

So yeah, for the first 20-30 turns I think I will limit myself to gathering all the turn files, then have a look at writing something then. wish me luck...

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

@ All

A quick update on the map before I disappear for the night. I made some attempts to sort the starts out today, but I didn't get very far due to a stream of constant interruptions. (annoying people wanting me to do the job I'm paid for :mad:)

Although what time I did spend on the starts was enough to convince me that given the water distribution on the map, I'm going to have a hard time finding a spot for the lone water nation. As such I've taken a map editors decision to change the 2-province island (95+101) in the biggest lake to water provinces, so that R'yleh have an obvious and convenient (to everyone!) starting location. (it's marked with a ruin).


I will hopefully have time to sort the starts out tomorrow evening when I get home. Although if anyone objects to the changes I've made, please can you let Dimaz know so that he can inform me (I'm saying to let Dimaz know, as now that the nations are done, it's probably best not to post anything in the thread that doesn't have to be posted)


The new edited map is attached. I've also renamed it to reflect that the map has been altered specifically for this game.

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

I was about to put up the game tonight (After checking with Dimaz, he prefers me to do it and just give him the password.) so people could start uplading pretenders, but it looks like none of the 3 mods we're using has already been uploaded, and I'm way too tired to go about figuring out what to upload, let alone writing the fancy description and finding shrapnel post numbers and what not. (Damn you, Llama! Why are you so organised? If you hadn't written all that stuff down so nicely I wouldn't have known I had to go to all that trouble.) I'll put it up first thing after getting home from work tomorrow. (Early afternoon)

In the meantime, for people in the know: Do I only have to upload the dm file of a mod to the Llamaserver (Since the other part is 'just' images I believe.) or does the server need the corresponding folder(s) too?

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

The game is up. (Temporarily using a previously-uploaded version of the Riverlands map, will change that as soon as Calahan finishes assigning start positions.) Time to upload preternders. Hurray!

By the way... I hope I guessed right here: If not we might have a game running with 3 faulty mods. Feel free to correct my humble endeavours and/or mock me mercilessly if necessary.

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

I'm back a bit earlier today than I planned, so I hope I shouldn't have any problem getting the map sorted by the end of the day. But I do have two other problems though.

***Rant Warning*** / ***TL;DR Warning***

The first is in response to this, and regarding the Expanded Nation pack this game is set to use.
Sorry llama, but "does no harm" isn't quite correct, as the Expanded Nation pack creates a lot of new units and summons that can be wished for. (I've tested this to be correct)

And while I haven't examined every single nation in the pack, my instincts tell me that given "balance" isn't always a mod creators first instincts when their creative juices are flowing, there's a good chance somewhere in that mod pack is a nation with a "summon super-monster" spell that summons an uber SC that is completely OP, and which is probably well worth 100 pearls in this game. Or a similar monster added as a Pretender (as you can wish for them as well)

And I see no reason why being able to wish for "something" connected to one of the mod nations in that pack (and not in this game) should be an option in this game. Plus the ever present problem with mods of something being overlooked which screws up a unit already in the game by giving it weapons (for example) that it shouldn't have. (like the example of New Jomon having Blowpipe recruits and a Scout with leadership)

So I for one would prefer to use the New Jomon nation mod rather than the Extended Nation pack (since that adds who knows what to the game via Wishing). As that gets rid of the wishing problem, and minimises the chance of yet-to-be-discovered bugs.

-----

My second problem is again with the Holy Wars mod, since has anyone else noticed how the Holy Sites mod really disrupts site searching with all the new Holy Sites. Here's a sample of just one of them to demonstrate their awesomeness.

Distant Holy Site. - No gems, +20 gold, and allows recruitment of...

Pilgrim - Cost 5gp 2r
HP 11
Prot 1
Mor 11
MR 11
Enc 3

Str 10
Att 8
Def 11
Prec 10
Move 2/12

Weapon - Quarterstaff / Armour - Robes


Battle Pilgrim - 10gp 11r
HP 12
Prot 10
Mor 13
MR 12
Enc 5

Str 11
Att 11
Def 13
Prec 10
Move 2/10

Weapon - Broad Sword / 4 Parry Shield


Pilgrim Warrior Saint (comm) - 70gp 12r

HP 14
Prot 9
Mor 15
MR 14
Enc 5

Str 12
Att 12
Def 16
Prec 10
Move 2/10

Leadership 80
H1. Sacred. Standard (20)
Weapon - Enchanted Pike (magic) / 4 Parry Shield


So those 3 units are basically bog standard Militia and Medium Infantry, plus an expensive H1 Priest that can be a rubbish magicless thug to a bless nation (who likely have national commanders far better for thugging given that they took a bless in the first place) and a standard effect that can be reproduced with a few nature gems for a Sleeper or Horn of Valour. (and those don't take up a precious commander recruitment slot either)


In testing I found a fair number of these new Holy Sites, all of them pretty much as useless as the above one, with one stellar province I came across in testing having...

Dojo - +1E
Grand Temple - Allows you to recruit crap units
Distant Holy Site - More crap units and +20g
Theologian's Guild - More crap units

I'm sorry, but when I find 4 sites in a province, I do not expect to see results like that.


(IIRC) This is the exact same problem that was reported with the Underwater sites that the UWGIM mod added (before some were removed or edited, again IIRC). In that by adding lots of rubbish low level sites, that might indeed add "a nice bit of flavour" to the game, but in doing so caused regular sites that might actually be useful to players (ie. those that give gems) to become rarer, and thereby interfere with the amount of gems that players are used to finding in previous games. And indeed actually punishing players (due to it replacing a regular site) for finding one of these new sites. Since nobody should think of these new holy sites as being "extra" sites, as that's not how site distribution works in the game, as it is more accurate to view these new Holy Sites as being "replacements" to the regular site you would have otherwise found anytime you find one of these new Holy Sites.


It's too late to remove the mod now that nations are selected (almost entirely due to the new spells it adds), but I highly suggest that the section of the mod that adds new Holy Sites be removed from the mod for this game**. Since I can't see how anyone could be relying on these sites, or the units they give, as part of their strategy. And I for one have no interest in recruiting units like Pilgrims, Followers, Monk, High Guards, or any of the vast majority of rubbish that these sites contain. Please give me +1 gem instead any day of the week.

As if I want Indy-type troops like the ones 80% of these sites produce, then I'll recruit regular Indy troops like I do every game I want them. And as most players know, the "recruitment window" for almost all Indy troops is within the first 20 turns at best. And you will need a big bless to really use any of the sacred troops over regular troops, but in that case you almost certainly have national sacred troops anyway for your bless (unless you're a nut job who takes a big bless without any national sacreds to use it on). So all that these extra units from these sites really mean is you have about 10 turns to use them at most, and then for the rest of the game, instead of having a site that could have been giving you gems, it is in fact costing you gems (in lost gem income) by even existing in the first place. (as it took the place of a regular site you would have otherwise found instead of it)


I'll say this yet again, "more does not equal good", and the chance of finding more rubbish sites certainly doesn't enhance a game of Dominions for me. As I get my enjoyment from playing the game, and not from seeing "a nice new unit that looks pretty, but I won't ever use because it's useless". Mod creators do a wonderful service to the community, but sometimes in their excitement to add new things, they forget how the actual mechanics of the game works (ie. Site distribution, AI spell casting), and sadly as a result, their mods can sometime affect the game in a negative way. And creating new sites, even more so than creating new spells, is definitely a case of "more does not equal good". Especially if the new sites are rubbish, as in this case there's no such thing as "I know, I'll add a few extra low level sites for fun and flavour, since that won't do any harm :)", as it does do harm if you know how the game works :(


** (and the idea of new sites sent back to the drawing board for the mod itself. Maybe make sure that each site at least gives "something" rather than just new units. Even if it's just +1 gem or +50 gold. Players should generally be happy to find sites, not annoyed, and I was distinctly annoyed to find almost every new Holy Site when I was testing the mod).

-----

And I apologise for all the whining I'm doing, but when I plan to (potentially) invest several months into a game, I don't like the thought of that time and effort being wasted due to experimental mods, or mods that screw with the core mechanics of the game and alter how it plays (such as mods that add spells and sites). Since I'm afraid the more my competitive instincts are increased by the thought of playing a good game with a good group of hardened players, the more my willingness to be a mod testing lab rat goes down.

Anyway, rant over, please resume your day :) Map hopefully on the way in a few hours.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't upping parcentage magic sites in setup effectively deal with the 'sh*te sites' problem at significantly less imput effort than changing the mod? Would randomly boost blood hunting I guess...

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

1) From a quick glance through the dm file when the mod was first suggested I think about half of the sites had some gem income, allthough the main draw should be the recruitable units. Looking at it again though, the half with gems are mostly the uncommon sites. :( Wheter the recruitables are good enough to justify it is another matter though. I definitely did not go trawling through the file to (try to) find out, but the ones I encountered in my few test games ranged from decent (will probably recruit some, but won't alter my strategy) to useless. Which does indeed seem underwhelming, although sample size is small.

I don't think editing out the Holy Wars sites after nation choices is a good idea though, for the same reason it wouldn't be a good idea to remove it entirely. I don't know how likely it is, but I can easily imagine someone with decent but capital-only sacreds (Utgard, Atlantis, New Jomon, T'ien Ch'i spring to mind among the ones in the game) using the easy availability of independent sacreds to help justify going for a (somewhat bigger) bless than they otherwise would. I will say I briefly considered this before looking to select nations myself, before deciding that trying to figure out if the sacreds from the mod were worth it was too much effort.

If no one objects I can easily hike up the site frequency a bit though, (50? 55?) to compensate for the few gem sites lost due to new holy sites. That way you can have your "boring-but-useful" gem generators, and others will still have their "flavourul and well made but ultimately useless" new units and everyone is happy(ish?)

2) In all the mods I've looked at so far (which includes 3/4 of the ones in the nation pack) I haven't seen a single unit that's worth wishing for over the "usual suspects" (Seraph, Chayot, Mandaha,..) Allthough I definitely won't vouch for every single one. Easy to overcome with the blanket rule "no wishing for units outside of the Mods intended for use." (And there's definitely nothing worth wishing for in New Jomon nor New Ulm)

I won't say much on possible bugs as that's out of my area of expertise. I did go out of my way though to use all national spells and summons from both nations after the blowpipe scare and didn't notice anything else untoward, but best not to consider me an authority on the issue.) I definitely wouldn't mind using only the strictly necessary mods, but apparently uploading the newest version of Jomon, Broken swords on it's own isn't possible, so it would need someone going through the effort of making the combo mod. (If someone wants to explain to me in very, VERY small words how to do go about it I don't mind doing this myself, but it would probably be more work to explain to me how to do it, than to actually do it. :D)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

The wishing problem I see as minor, but I suppose you're right.

We could perhaps increase the magic setting to compensate for the holy sites?

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hah! I used way more words than you to say the same thing. You suxxors!1one11!

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Blood is overpowered as it is, so I really don't think it needs the boost that increased site frequency would give it. Not even sure why it was increased to 45 from the LA base of 35, but that was in from the start so....

Why not just edit the mod to make sure each new Holy site give at least +1 Astral, thereby making sure each new Holy Site is at least as good as the base game site "Ancient Temple" is, which gives +1S (as I suggested above towards the end of my novel)


And you could set a house rule for the wishing problem, but I must admit that this idea is really doing a number on the logic circuits in my brain. Since this would not be a rule to solve a hardcoded problem with the base game that we can't solve any other way (like copying Bogus orders). But instead a rule to deal with a problem that we are adding. So we ourselves are deciding to create this problem to the game with our choice of mods, and then making a rule to accommodate the exact problem that we ourselves are creating due to our choice of mods?!??! [:Calahan's brain explodes:]. I apologise if I'm the only one who finds that idea simply whacky.

I'm far from a modding expert, but nation packs have been used as stand alone mods in games several times before, so I have a hard time believing it can't be done again here so that we only use the New Jomon nation. Sure the mod might need editing, but the code is already in the Extended Nation pack (assuming that actually works properly, since it's never been tested either), so it should be just a matter of lifting the code out of the Expanded Nation Pack (which I might attempt to do once I get the map sorted).


Edit - Although I do agree with Fantomen in that the Wishing problem is a minor one. But it is a problem (that we are creating) none-the-less.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

keeping up my general stalking of your game, Byzantine Pythium has 7 unique archangle summons that might merit a wish, particularly the seventh

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ok, the map is more-or-less done. I'm about 80%+ happy with it.

The unhappiness comes from one or two starts being a little good/bad compared to some of the others. And while I was hoping to have several starts near the coast so that players can't just play the easiest ever game of "Where's Wally" with Marignon, in the end I only managed to have 4 coastal starts. Atlantis don't need a coastal start though, neither do they have a preference for one. So players will have a 25% chance of guessing where Marignon are. (in the test starts I did to bug hunt the starts, Atlantis often started away from the coast)

Each Land capital is at least 4 provinces away from their nearest Land neighbour. So that's X-1-2-3-4-X. All Land capitals have between 4-6 neighbours, with the ones having 4 getting at least 2x Mountain or Forest neighbours to ensure decent Capital resources. I had to put R'yleh in the smaller of the two inner lake provinces I created, as in the larger one they would share neighbouring provinces with Land caps. (which I really want to avoid)

I've also included a save game so you can see where the starts are (the location of the nations in the save game is entirely random apart from R'yleh.)

I'd also like to ask for some volunteers to create some test games on the map with the nations in the game to see if all the nations start in one of the intended start provinces. As I wasn't able to use the usually #start map modding command for some reason (guessing it was to do with Marignon). So instead of being able to indicate which provinces are to be a start location, I've instead had to go over the map making every other province a no-start. As such I might have missed one which could really screw thngs up badly. Although I have created half a dozen test games with the attached version, and each time everyone has started in one of the intended places. Which are....

1. 28
2. 41
3. 67 (C)
4. 69 (C)
5. 94
6. 128
7. 147 (C)
8. 150
9. 199
10. 185
11. 210
12. 237 (C)
13. 244

14. 95 (R'yleh)


I also had to remove a connection between 28-44, as I wouldn't have been able to get equal spacing without it (it looked a bit illogical anyway as it goes through a huge mountain). I think I've corrected all the connection and terrain errors. I also hope I've found and removed all the provinces tagged as many sites (although there were more than I thought, and harder to spot, so I could have missed some).

If I have generous amounts of free time between now and the start (ie. tomorrow) then I might have another bash at doing the map to increase my happiness level to 90%+. But if I don't get the time, I'm confident that the attached one will produce a balanced enough game.


@ Amhazair - Don't upload the map to the server yet in case I do have another attempt at balancing it.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Question for anyone with a bit of modding knowledge: Is combining several mods really as simple as copy/pasting the relevant parts one after the other? (Provided the ID conflicts had been resolved in advance) In view of the various minor issues we're having I thought I'd see if I could figure out how to do it, (In the expectation of getting nowhere and giving up after some frustrating tries.) and looking at some previous combo mods and it sure looked like this was the case.

So I tried it with the 3 mods we're using, and I did manage to start up a game without any explosions. (Also, al New Jomon recruitables are as they should be, and pretenders are the CBM version, but I didn't go around summoning all the possible summons or searching for (holy) sites or the like.)

So, behold: My first ever modding effort, (hopefully) combining CBM 1.84, Holy Wars LE and New Jomon, Brokens Swords 1.4, while fixing the blowpipe issue, and (again, hopefully) adding a minor gem income to all Holy War sites* I did not touch the Cur Scout's leadership, as I don't feel confident about it and don't want to screw up more than I fix.

*Mostly 1S, though I took any excuse given to me by the name of the site or the recruitables to use another gem type to not skew gem type balance too much. In 2 cases of a site with a very impressive name I added 2 gems.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: Someone look at it, test, do stuff with it. While I'm actually surprisingly confident about my effort, and I'll never claim I know nothing about modding anymore if this works, I still insist I know very little about it and thus need to be supervised.

Follow up question: Do people have to enable the combined mod to create their pretender, or doesn't it really matter since any pretender created using the separate mods will also be legal using the combo version?

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Well, since no one else dit I tested it out some, and it looks to work perfectly. Holy sites have their extra gems, and the Jomon summons are as they should be, as are the EDM and regular-but changed by EDM ones I tried. Unless someone else finds a bug I declare the Combo-Mod a-go. I will attach it to the OP. Use the version on the OP, I did fix the gem income from two sites in the OP version. (apparently they didn't show in my first try due to being on a wrong line or something.)

Llama comes back from his trip tomorrow, so I suggest we see about starting the game on monday.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

@ All

New version of the map attached. My happiness level approaching 90%.

Change Log

- Moved the start at 28 to 25, as 28 was a particularly bad spot.
- Moved the start at 210 to 202 and the start at 185 - 175 to accommodate the above change
- Moved the forest from 175 to 168 to ensure 175 has decent enough resources.


As before I've included a saved game that shows where the starts are.


@ Amhazair - I'll upload the map myself in a few hours, as I want to create a dozen+ test games with it first to make sure there are no rouge starts anywhere. And give it a final check over to make sure no other gremlins creep through the net (I'll post when I've uploaded it)

----------

@ Amhazair again - I'll try and check your mod out later if I get chance. Although as far as I know all you need to do is copy and paste the part of the code from each mod into one (which it sounds like what you did). Main issues when conmbining mods that I know of are the id conflicts, which should in theory already have been sorted by the PTB in charge of CBM, Expanded nation pack etc. But I'm sure llama can give it a once over as well.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

@ Amhazair - Sadly I didn't get a chance to test the map starts or look at your mod in the end today. (had a lot busier evening than I originally planned :(). But I will try and do both tomorrow.

-----

@ Dimaz - Will you be posting the rules for the game? As besides the usual turning AI stuff, there's also cheese issues such as attacking with lone commanders to block movement ("I wasn't blocking movement, I was in fact probing his army" "Yeah right of course. Bollox"). Most of the time this is covered in games with "don't be a douche", but I wouldn't mind some clarity from above before we start. (and what punishments are due to rule breakers. As "Oh sorry, I forgot" isn't an acceptable excuse in my books)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Well, I think this sort of things is mainly game creator/players responsibility. My job as admin, as I see it, starts with the game itself and ends with it. It includes supporting the game rules and in general supporting the smoothness of the game, but not declaring the rules, as I'm not actually participating in the game. Of course I can do it too, but it will require more time as I didn't think about it so I'm not ready to post such rule list immediately, and it's time to sleep here.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

@ All

One tiny tweak to the map (I noticed that 25 didn't have a forest tag). The attached version of the map will be the final one (unless anyone reports any errors).

I've started 10 games on the map with the nations in the game, and each time everyone is in one of the designated start locations. So the chances are slim that a rogue starting province got through the net (but I'll be able to tell if anyone starts where they shouldn't by the VP locations once the game starts)

------

@ Amhazair - I've uploaded the map to the llamaserver. It should be at the bottom of the map list. It's named "Riverlands for 13+1 (Andalusian Sun)".

I've also quickly looked at your mod, and everything seems fine at first glance (apart from not having an icon image, which makes it harder to know if you've enabled it.)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ok, lets try this again. Attached is another final version of the map, as there was still a few connection errors that I somehow missed up until this point.

For clarity, I recommend you delete any previous versions of the map you might have downloaded, as I've had to rename the .map file in order to upload it to the llamaserver.


FYI - The image file is the same as before, and has the same name.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

@ Amhazair - Found a few errors in your mod relating to the Holy Sites. The basic problem seems to be that each site can only provide 5 "things". With "things" being units, gems, scale shifts etc. So in the mod code for the sites, these "things" appear to be everything between the #rarity and #end commands.

(Edit- The game doesn't crash or anything due to this, it's just that only the first 5 "things" will appear in the site, and anything else is ignored. ie. Basically the gem income you've added to sites which already had 5 "things")

I've had a quick look through, and the following have more than 5 (think they all have 6)

849
843
832
829
828
827

Search the mod file for #newsite (number) to find them.

I can try and make some suggestions if you like for what to get rid off in each site to bring them down to 5. (I'll try and create a map as well for you to see all the new Holy sites, so that you can see first hand the changes without having to guess/hope the sites are working as planned)

--------

Edit

#newsite 849
#name "Dvaraka"
#path 8
#level 3
#rarity 2
#loc 256
#mon 573 (Amber clan warrior) --- 1
#com 575 (amber clan mage) --- 2
#com 576 (amber clan priest) --- 3
#gems 2 1 --- 4
#gems 4 1 --- 5
#decscale 5 --- 6 ***Problem***
#end


#newsite 843
#name "The Cathedral of the Tablet"
#path 8
#level 2
#loc 16607
#rarity 1
#com 3489 (HOLY TABLET)
#mon 3473 (HIGH GUARD)
#com 3475 (MYSTIC)
#gems 3 1
#gems 4 1
#decscale 0
#end


#newsite 832
#name "Fanatical Congregation"
#path 8
#level 0
#loc 81
#rarity 1
#mon 217 (FLAGELLANT)
#mon 3465 (FOLLOWER pitchfrok)
#mon 3466 (FOLLOWER torch
#com 3478 (RABBLE ROUSER)
#com 3479 (PREACHER)
#gems 0 1
#end


#newsite 829
#name "Large Chapterhouse"
#path 8
#level 2
#loc 85
#rarity 1
#mon 3452 (CRUSADER)
#mon 3453 (TEMPLAR)
#mon 3451 (TEMPLAR KNIGHT)
#com 3456 (TEMPLAR COMMANDER)
#gems 4 1
#res 40
#end


#newsite 828
#name "The Destination"
#path 8
#level 2
#loc 223
#rarity 1
#mon 3450 (PILGRIMS)
#mon 3467 (BATTLE PILGRIMS)
#mon 3451 (TEMPLAR KNIGHT)
#com 3454 (TEMPLAR MONK)
#com 3456 (TEMPLAR COMMANDER)
#gems 4 1
#end


#newsite 827
#name "Church of the Relic"
#path 8
#level 1
#loc 16465
#rarity 0
#mon 3473 (HIGH GUARD)
#com 3488 (SAINT RELIC)
#com 3487 (PRIEST)
#com 241 (HIGH PRIEST)
#gems 4 1
#decscale 0
#end


The above is the code relating to each site error I listed.

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Edit 2

Attached is a map and save file that acn be used to see the Holy Sites. If you edit your Andalusian mod, then the cahgnes will appear in the game after a restart.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Changed game settings to include the proper map, and turned automatic start back on. We're off as soon as all pretenders are in. Yes, but to include an image I'd have had to do something besides copy/pasting. :angel

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ahah, so that's why. My first guess was it had to do with the order in which the 'things' were listed. This seemed to be confirmed by a look at another mod I had lying around in which the gem income stood on another position in relation to gold as where I had originally put it. Thought moving it around would have fixed it, but didn't check anymore. (Due to having spent way too much time on it allready and hoping it would slip through unnoticed if I was still wrong. Should've known I couldn't fool you. ;))

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ah, I didn't manage to edit my post before you replied :)


I've attached a save game and .map file (Silent Seas map image required) to my above post. With that you can see the sites the mod adds, and use it to see how any changes you make affect the site. (so you can easily see if things are working as planned). (Edit - Select "Man" nation to see them)

I think some of the militia type units can be removed from the sites having problems. As I can't see anyone wanting a Militia unit (but it has stick+stones!!!) over gem/gold income.

Edit - There's also a naming conflict in the original mod, as there are 2 UW sites called "Laccadive", but I'm pretty sure only one is working, as the code of the first instance is overwriting the code for the second. (So changing the name of one of them should fix it)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Fixed by removing 3 units, (Follower with torch and pilgrim are quite poor, and provided by other sites too; priestess is nothing special and there's a H2 priest available from the same site) and changing gem income from W1 S1 and E1S1 to W2 and E2. Left the large chapterhouse as the only site without gem income. (Didn't want to break up the "tiered progression" from the site, and the units are quite useful anyway. One unit with no gem income shouldn't be the end of the world.)

Renamed one of the Laccadives to Lacadive. Since I don't know what the word means, misspelling it doesn't offend my sensibilities. :D

I'll update the OP in a minute.

Edit: Updated.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Does that mean that pretenders need to be recreated?- Hopefully the answer is no :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

I can't imagine it being necessary, but I'll let Calahan/Llamabeast/someone else answer for certain, since, as we've established, I don't know anything about mo... erm... I mean...

Since I'm clearly a master modder I've ingeneously made sure you do not have to remake your pretender and have nothing at all to worry about. (Pssst, Calahan: Back me up on this will you? So I can remove the small text before the editing time limit expires.)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

I'm 95% certain that you don't need to recreate Pretenders. Since as far as I know (regarding the cheat detection process for Pretender design), when the game is created it checks that each Pretender can be created for the game exactly as it is in the Pretender file that was submitted. If it can't recreate it exactly, and with the exact same remaining design points, then it reports a cheat message.

So unless Amhazair did something to the Pretenders (which I highly doubt) then all should be fine. As in theory, you can still create certain Pretenders in vanilla for CBM games (for example, I don't think CBM touches the Lich). But obviously don't do that just because you 'might' be able to :)


@ Amhazair

Good work sorting those sites out, and many thanks for your efforts. We'll get this game started yet :) (who needs llamabeast :D In fact, llamawho?)


I've also created an icon for your mod if you want to use it.

Just put the image in the same directory as the .dm file, and insert the #icon command near the start of the mod file, like so...

#modname "Andalusian Sun"
#description "No description"
#version 0.2
#icon "Andalusian.tga"
#domversion 3.26

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Wow. Seems there's been a few thousand words of concern while I've been away. Can't help but feel there's a degree of much ado about nothing (I particularly don't understand the worry about wishing), but much respect to Amhazair for taking up modding from scratch and getting it working - nice one.

I am not certain that the gems on holy sites was necessary - some of them are pretty strong actually I think - but I haven't looked into it closely or done the maths so I won't comment for now. In any case adding the gems will probably increase the fun factor, and I will look more carefully at the maths later to see if it would be a good idea to implement for the base mod. Quite possibly it's a good improvement.

The pretenders will be fine.

Anyway, definitely keen to get started as this looks like it will be an awesome game. Great lineup of players, and I'm also keen to get a chance to play with Burnsaber's mod. Plus this will be my first ever (R)AND game so it'll be cool to try out the concept.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

I mostly agree, in the sence that any issues were really minor and I would personally have been perfectly happy to ignore them and start out with the separate mods as they were. On the other hand, if a little effort can get rid of even the minor objections and make everyone a little happier, then why not?

Oh, my! We have a RAND virgin! I would suggest to be gentle with him, but unfortunately the anonymous nature of the game makes that quite difficult. ;) Chomping at the bit myself too.

Calahan: I actually really like the banner image you made. (Holliday, baby!) However I didn't want to clutter the Llamaserver, nor confuse everyone further with yet another new version of the same mod. Am I right in assuming that if I edit the mod with the banner in question people can subsitute the newest version for the old one, while the Llamaserver keeps running with the old one? (As the banner doesn't actually change any content.) If that is the case I will arrange it once we're we'll and truly underway so those who want a banner can use it, and those who prefer to live without extra hassle can ignore it.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

I added master pasword to the game, in case someone sends the password protected pretender and then disappear for some reason. Only one pretender left. Good game everyone, and let the most skillful win!

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

So the game finally started. Just a quick reminder: if you want to contact me, the best way is to use PM here, but if the speed is crucial, I think the fastest way to reach me is to write to gmail box dimazzz80. Also, current hosting time (2:00) will prevent me from adding last-minute delays, as I'm sleeping at that time. Please keep this in mind.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Can I please request that turn reminders be set to 12 hours (if nobody objects), as I find 6 hour reminders more annoying than useful. (in the sense that it's very annoying when they arrive whle I'm sleeping, and telling me that hosting is also taking place while I'm sleeping :mad: As that's like rubbing salt into the stale you've just woken up to :hurt:)


In fact @ llamabeast - Any chance you could change the default reminder on the llamaserver to 12 hours instead of 6? As it's very rare I see players saying "I like 6 hour reminders", but I often see players saying "I don't like 6 hour reminders". Please and Thank You :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Wee! Game On! I'm off to see which corner of Andalusia I'll be whiling away my days in for the next couple of months. (Hopefully)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Calahan - yes! Good point. That has been annoying me too but I haven't gotten around to changing it. I will try to do so tonight.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Reminders changed to 12h.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Excellent! Let me begin by thanking my many enemies, whoever they may be, for providing such an entertaining foil to my unstoppable forces.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

HA! Your mewling struggles continue to amuse me. If you surrender now, I will show you no mercy whatsoever, but will keep you broken and chained as playthings in my games of unspeakable torture.

Of course, when I conquer you utterly, shatter your inept followers, and ascend to the throne of all, I'm going to do that anyway. So it really makes no difference what you do.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 6 hours. The game will now host at 07:10 GMT on Saturday April 9th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Are those wails of despair I hear? Fret not, for when I have ascended to sit My throne, you will all be dead to joy (not that it would come up) and sorrow. The anguish that you feel now? That is but a passing thing, with time the coming nightmare will be normal.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

You are mistaken, those wails are naught but your own vain daydreams of glory. As blind as the mole ascended from earth, as blind the pretender pretending to know his future. As the cowards cower from the rustling wings of foolish thugs, true power matures in the shadows.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Is this what you tell your feeble, mewling underlings?

Psst. We're winning! But it's a *secret*, don't tell anybody.

You have done well, and earned yourself a place of honor - every other monday, I will trot you out of your cell to be my capering jester. Don't worry, you won't be missing out on any of the fun of our rivals - the missed 12 hrs of torture will be spread out over the remaining two weeks, in place of your nightly hour of sleep.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hm, looks like we have a problem. I've been informed by one of the players that he received an in-game message from another one asking for NAP. Obviously this is clear violation of game rules. Personally I think we can either find a sub for the player who sent the message or warn him and continue. Probably he missed the OP part about the game being anonymous. However, as no information about player's identities has been disclosed (only that one of the players doesn't like to read the game rules for the game he's joining), I think we should warn him (by PM, probably) and continue if he promises not to repeat this in the future.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

OK, after considering the fact that similar incident happened during YARG1 game and the decision was to remove the player from the game, I'm going to do the same here. The offending player will be removed from the game, and I'll try to find a sub soon. I'm adding 48h to game timer.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Yeah, I suppose this is probably the best solution.

Feel free to add some serious wrist-slapping on my behalf though. :)

Edit: Heh, great timing for my post. If it's a repeat offender I guess you're right (again) though. You may still feel free to slap...