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-   -   Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Game over, Atlantis wins) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=48650)

Soyweiser May 7th, 2012 10:16 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaskar (Post 803680)
Let it be known to all that Gath (Soyweiser) agreed to a NAP-3 with me and then attacked me without any forewarning.
Well well, three minor points. First you violated the terms of our non aggression pact first by using aggressive language, and clearly deploying an army not intend to take the single province, but just to attack me.

Second, I was under the impression the NAP3 only took effect after you took the agreed upon province. (Which invalidates my earlier point of course).

Third, you didn't seem to be using the provinces. Provinces with PD are free for anybody to grab.

Friends?

Executor May 7th, 2012 10:49 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 803799)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaskar (Post 803680)
Let it be known to all that Gath (Soyweiser) agreed to a NAP-3 with me and then attacked me without any forewarning.
Well well, three minor points. First you violated the terms of our non aggression pact first by using aggressive language, and clearly deploying an army not intend to take the single province, but just to attack me.

Friends?
Oh come on, if you're gonna make this into a public debate you need to elaborate on these points. What does that exactly mean? :)

Soyweiser May 7th, 2012 10:53 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
He made elaborate descriptions of how he would stop any of my invasions, and how he would invade me in turn. And look and behold, the treacherous Agartha then started to actually invade me with an army exactly as described.

Executor May 8th, 2012 02:44 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Amhazir, I've sent you an email also. Need an extension on the turn, 24 hours at least if possible.

Amhazair May 8th, 2012 03:30 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Added.

Balaskar May 8th, 2012 07:30 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Sure we are friends... just friends who want to kill each other.

1st. I did not use agressive language, but simply sent you a stern warning as YOU were the one massing armies on my borders. I had no armies close to your border except for the one that was waiting for you to remove your troops from the province you had promised me. My worries proved to be warranted as you attacked me 4 turns later.

2nd. This is simply a lie. When I sent you a stern warning about the armies close to my borders and also mentioned that you had failed to remove your troops from the province promised me you told me that you STILL considered (present tense) our NAP-3 to still be in effect.

3rd. Touché. I'm a newb and it was a good lesson. Can't blame Pythium for taking advantage... but it is still underhanded for someone who just a few turns before had confirmed a NAP-3 with me to turn around and stab me in the back.

Conclusion: 1.Untrustworthy 2.Untrustworthy 3.Untrustworthy. I will be wary of any future dealings with you.

PS MOST FUN I've had in a MP game in months, even though I am sure I am going to get my arse handed to me. Great example of how LOSING is FUN!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 803799)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaskar (Post 803680)
Let it be known to all that Gath (Soyweiser) agreed to a NAP-3 with me and then attacked me without any forewarning.
Well well, three minor points. First you violated the terms of our non aggression pact first by using aggressive language, and clearly deploying an army not intend to take the single province, but just to attack me.

Second, I was under the impression the NAP3 only took effect after you took the agreed upon province. (Which invalidates my earlier point of course).

Third, you didn't seem to be using the provinces. Provinces with PD are free for anybody to grab.

Friends?

Balaskar May 8th, 2012 07:33 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
When did I invade you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 803803)
He made elaborate descriptions of how he would stop any of my invasions, and how he would invade me in turn. And look and behold, the treacherous Agartha then started to actually invade me with an army exactly as described.

Amhazair May 9th, 2012 01:19 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaskar (Post 803948)
PS MOST FUN I've had in a MP game in months, even though I am sure I am going to get my arse handed to me. Great example of how LOSING is FUN!
Heh, I do like your attitude I have to say.

Without going into the details of an agreement I know nothing about and am no party of, for the longest time NAP's were considered sacrosanct in these parts, and breaking one, even when it made absolute strategice sense, absolutely not done. While most people still take it quite seriously those feelings appear to be relaxing a little bit, which I don't actually find to be a bad thing, as that attitude might be conductive to careless play.

Still, as you said, there can be quite some fun to be had in trying to frustrate your opponent(s) as much as possible, either by causing damage or just by costing them time, and, who knows, all may not be lost. Do not neglect your diplomacy, if you can convince the neighbour of an enemy that you're able tie up his forces for a long time, watch him trip over his own feet in his haste to take advantage of the situation. Hope you didn't neglect your scouts and knows who borders who. (And if you don't, people might be willing to trade that information too. Not that I'm volunteering of course. :p)

Executor May 10th, 2012 02:01 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Marginon AI???

Calahan May 10th, 2012 02:56 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Executor (Post 804037)
Marginon AI???
You guys should have organised this game on the other forum, as there are rules against this sort of thing there now.

Soyweiser May 10th, 2012 03:04 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Executor (Post 804037)
Marginon AI???
WTF. Really, one of the top nations goes AI. What a dick move. Good job Skymoon. AI at turn 18 without telling anybody.

Also, Like I said Pythium. Agartha is the vengeful type. How is invading who now?

Admiral_Aorta May 10th, 2012 03:26 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Nice to know that Skymoon is a wanker who goes AI for no reason. Another for the list.

Calahan May 10th, 2012 03:45 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Aorta (Post 804044)
Nice to know that Skymoon is a wanker who goes AI for no reason. Another for the list.
I'm pretty quick at attaching labels to people, but I'm personally holding off here as it might be a case of a new player having a RL emergency and, because he's new to Dominions MP, didn't realise that nation abandonment in such situations (when you can't contact admin, or just didn't realise you had to) is usually strongly prefered to nation AI-ing.

As I do know of what appear to be genuine cases where new players are simply not told beforehand that they should never turn AI without permission if they need to suddenly leave the game, as they may have experience from other online MP games where turning AI is usually the appropriate action when needing to suddenly leave. So I think some leeway should probably be given, in the form on not instantly labelling, in cases where it was not stressed in the OP beforehand (or by general forum rules) that players should not turn AI without permission. Regular players take this for granted these days (or at least I hope that's the growing trend), but new players are likely to be unaware of it for obvious reasons.

(and I don't see anything in the OP regarding such things for the new players in this game to know any different, unless they already know the etiquette expected of players from browsing otehr games threads. But that can't be taken as default or as a given IMO. Apols in advance though if it is mentioned somewhere, and my eyes are being temporarily blinded by kindness)

Admiral_Aorta May 10th, 2012 03:47 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Actually yeah he does appear to be new so I apologise.

Soyweiser May 10th, 2012 04:02 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...&postcount=104
The jury is in!

Calahan, well he is clearly in a superb position in this game. So there wasn't a reason for the player to go AI. Apart from, the game bores me kthxb.

Calahan May 10th, 2012 04:11 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Not sure that proves anything other than he quit two games at the same time. Which seems consistent with having to suddenly stop playing completely, and not being aware of having to notify (if possible) the admin(s) before doing so. (ie. a new player with a RL emergency).

(can't believe I'm taking the side of a bailzer?!?!? Is it April 1st or something?)

Amhazair May 10th, 2012 08:08 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Executor (Post 804037)
Marginon AI???
Eh, bollocks. I'll see about dealing with it later, got to run now.

dojango May 10th, 2012 11:17 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
unless you can unset someone from AI, we just gotta roll with it, I reckon.

Calahan May 10th, 2012 11:40 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
You can't undo naitons set to AI. What you can do if you can find a sub is rollback the turn, install the sub, allow only the sub to submit their turn, and then force host, which returns the game to where it is now. But that of course is entirely the admin's decision as it involves a rollback, and so has a major warning attached to it. Otherwise the only real option is to continue as is.

Amhazair May 10th, 2012 12:05 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Yep, this, exactly. With Marignon being one of the bigger players a rollback would be the lesser of two evils. (If anyone agrees or disagrees feel free to pipe in, if there's an outcry against it I won't do it, but I really feel it's the best option. I certainly know who I'll be attacking if Marignon stays AI...)

The plan, in the case of rollback would be the following:
1) Find a sub for Marignon.
2) Roll back the turn.
3) Have the new Marignon player - and only Marignon - submit a new turn right then.
4) Force hosting immediately. That way all of our previous turns will get used, no one benefits from hindsight, and we continue on as we are now with the only change being Marignon not being AI.

I'll go whip up a "looking for sub" post right now and add 24h to the timer for now to give us some time to get things in order. As said, if you think this is a bad idea, feel free to speak up. Up until the time the rollback actually occurs we can still refrain from it and go on as we are instead.

Valerius May 10th, 2012 12:40 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
It's tedious, but it may be worth having all the players confirm they have deleted all the old files in their save game folder before downloading the re-hosted turn as I think the main reason rollbacks have such a bad reputation is failure to do this. And of course the more players you've got the more chances for someone to not pay attention and use old files.

Oh, and hope the Marignon player didn't password protect their pretender. ;)

Stagger Lee May 10th, 2012 01:00 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerius (Post 804074)
It's tedious, but it may be worth having all the players confirm they have deleted all the old files in their save game folder before downloading the re-hosted turn as I think the main reason rollbacks have such a bad reputation is failure to do this. And of course the more players you've got the more chances for someone to not pay attention and use old files.
This is a very good idea.

Calahan May 10th, 2012 03:21 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
@ Amhazair - It's probably a good idea to make heavy use of the llamaserver "send message to players" option right now, as I've found that an excellent admin tool for both notifying all players that something inportant is happening, and also if the time comes, essential for conveying accurate instructions during the rollback phase. (as rollback disasters are always the fault of players, since they only occur when one or more players uses the wrong version of a .trn file)

Balaskar May 10th, 2012 06:31 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Not vengeful, just being proactive. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 804042)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Executor (Post 804037)
Marginon AI???
WTF. Really, one of the top nations goes AI. What a dick move. Good job Skymoon. AI at turn 18 without telling anybody.

Also, Like I said Pythium. Agartha is the vengeful type. How is invading who now?

Soyweiser May 10th, 2012 07:48 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaskar (Post 804100)
Not vengeful, just being proactive. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...
You must not like your cap than very much ;).

Balaskar May 12th, 2012 03:59 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
I don't see how sitting there waiting for you and Pythium to march on my lands is going to help me keep my cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 804105)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaskar (Post 804100)
Not vengeful, just being proactive. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...
You must not like your cap than very much ;).

Soyweiser May 12th, 2012 07:54 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
I possibly away till monday. Sorry to hold up the game until then. I might be able to do turns tonight or tomorrow.

Amhazair May 12th, 2012 10:20 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Stagger Lee will be taking over LA Marignon. I will be coordinating with him to time the Rollback so even players who would sneakily try to submit a new turn 17 with the knowledge they now have will have no chance to do so. :)

Amhazair May 12th, 2012 11:23 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Copy/pasting from my mail using the Llamaserver so all instructions can be easily followed by whatever means everyone prefers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amhazair


Hello all,

As you will have noticed, we’ve been experiencing a bit of a delay due to the Marignon player setting his nation to AI and disappearing. Luckily I have now found a sub, and will roll back the turn so he can submit a new turn 17 and we can then continue on as we were.

Rollbacks though are delicate matters, and require some care to execute properly without ruining the entire game. As such I’m sending you all this e-mail with the necessary explanations and instructions.
Before anything else everyone HAS TO delete their current 2h and trn files for turn 18. THIS IS VITALLY IMPORTANT. If any single player fails to do this it will most likely cause catastrophic crashes and ensure the game cannot be continued. I will say again: DELETE YOUR CURRENT TURN FILES NOW. You will get a new turn file for turn 18 when I re-host the game. Simply overwriting your current turn files with the new one you receive (like you do for all other turns) is NOT good enough, and will cause the crashes mentioned before, so please be good boys (or girls) and trust me on this, okay?

What will then happen is the following:
1) I will rollback the turn to turn 17.
2) Stagger Lee (the new Marignon player) will submit a new turn. No one else should do so! I’m serious here, anyone submitting a new turn 17 anyway will incur my eternal wrath and such more.
3) I will immediately force hosting. That way, the llamaserver will just use your previously submitted turns again and no one can gain any benefit from the knowledge they gained from seeing the turn play out
4) You will all receive a new turn 18, from which you can then play and submit a new turn as normal. I will say here again: make sure you deleted your previous turn files before saving the newly received turn into your games folder, and do NOT just overwrite it.

Sorry for repeating the same thing over and over again, but better safe than sorry. I would not like to have to abandon the game because someone thought I was just joking around.
As a final point, Stagger Lee has mentioned he’ll be busy over the weekend, and will probably only be able to play his turn afterwards, so the rollback will only happen at that time. Until then I hope you have fun doing other stuff.
What I forgot to add (But isn't terribly important) is that I will coordindate the rollback with Stagger Lee so he can play his turn immediately, to give any would-be cheaters as little opportunity as possible to quickly submit a new turn 17 anyway. Since no one would stoop so low though, it doesn't really matter, right? :)

Admiral_Aorta May 12th, 2012 11:04 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
So I assume we ignore this turn 19 that's just turned up then?

Amhazair May 13th, 2012 07:25 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Bollocks, Bollocks, Bollocks. How stupid can I be. Finally have everything in hand, ready to move on, and I go to bed forgetting about hosting deadline. Lucky most people didn't trust me and did submit a turn 18 before. ;)

With two rollbacks doubling the chances of things exploding in our faces though, as well as massively increasing the opportunities for everyone who wants to send in a substitute turn 17 or 18 (due to the time Marignon would need to turn in two turns at once) and, as others have said before, several newer players perhaps not quite getting what's going on (despite my - I believe - very clear explanation of what to do and what not to do) I'm going to have to take the executive decision to just move on now, so ignore everything I wrote in my previous post mail and just play on as we are now. We're still early enough in the game that a good dose of diplomacy and dogpiling should (hopefully) take care of anyone gaining too much of an advantage by swallowing Marignon.

With very big apologies to Bogarus and Midgard who trusted me enough not to send in a turn and thus staled, (at least I staled out too, so no one can accuse me of abusing my position to favor myself. ;) ) and also to Stagger Lee who was looking forward for taking over, as well as to everyone else for me generally screwing up.

Bollokcs.

Stagger Lee May 13th, 2012 07:34 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
I just PM'd you about this, Ahazair. Whatever you folks think is best is ok by me. If you choose not to go back two turns, then good luck with the rest of the game.

Amhazair May 13th, 2012 07:51 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger Lee (Post 804283)
I just PM'd you about this, Ahazair. Whatever you folks think is best is ok by me. If you choose not to go back two turns, then good luck with the rest of the game.
Yeah, I'm afraid rolling back twice with all the issues surrounding it is just too much of a risk this early in the game. Thanks a lot for offering to help out though, it's greatly appreciated.

Also, this is unrelated to anything else (and thus was definitely not worth a place in the serious thread above when I wondered about it) but I noticed I find myself saying (or, well, writing at least, since I hardly ever come in a situation where I actually have to speak English) 'bollocks' a whole lot lately. Anyone knows of a movie or a series where the/one protagonist use(s) that word a lot? I'm mildly curious why it's often the first swearword comming to mind these days.

Soyweiser May 13th, 2012 09:48 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
A rollback one turn is the same as a rollback 2 turns imho. Sucks to have spend a little time on turn 18. But not really a big problem. (Enterprising site searching players could have some bonus from the two rollbacks, but not that super much).

Amhazair May 13th, 2012 11:05 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
While technically that's true, it does double the chances of someone screwing up, and the fact that two turns were submitted without questions asked shortly after the game hosted again sorta shows not everyone is following allong with what's happening. I just don't see things ending well with a double rollback now.

Soyweiser May 13th, 2012 11:25 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Yeah, just send a message to everybody with that information. Sucks. But nothing much we can do about it anymore.

Amhazair May 13th, 2012 05:44 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
I've added a couple of hours so I can check before going to work tomorrow to make sure nobody stales with this restart.

Executor May 13th, 2012 05:58 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 804294)
Enterprising site searching players could have some bonus from the two rollbacks, but not that super much.
I wouldn't mind rolling back to get some help with site searching actually! Heck, I've site searched a dozen provinces for high level F/D and low level E/S and I only got (and quite a few) non gem sites! :mad:
I demand a rollback so I can site search properly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 804318)
I've added a couple of hours so I can check before going to work tomorrow to make sure nobody stales with this restart.
What restart? You mean this continuation?

One more thing, I don't tend to make public threats but if any of the leading nations tries to gobble up Marginon I god damn will find a way to attack you! I'm looking at you, Pythium, Atlantis, Midgard... :)

dojango May 13th, 2012 07:16 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Ermor is the one to worry about since Marignon is one of the best Ermor-counters... of course, we're all at war with him anyway, so that's not much of a threat.

Admiral_Aorta May 14th, 2012 12:05 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Hey, we're very friendly and were attacked first, don't be HATIN

Admiral_Aorta May 16th, 2012 01:54 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Feel free to kill off those cultists that have popped up in your territory Atlantis, I can't control where they appear.

Executor May 16th, 2012 05:23 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Hhahahahahha... I can't help but laugh, or cry maybe.
After site searching all my provinces I found exactly 0 death sites and 2 fire sites.

Admiral_Aorta May 16th, 2012 05:38 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Sorry, we have a monopoly on death at the moment.

Executor May 16th, 2012 09:27 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Hey, you could give me your gems? Everyone hates and want to kill you anyway. They're of not much use for you.

Admiral_Aorta May 16th, 2012 09:50 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
While that is a totally rad offer we're using them right now. Maybe later if we die horribly(oh wait we're already dead)

Executor May 16th, 2012 09:53 AM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
If you give me your gems I promise to backstab one of your enemies, of your own choosing too if you give me steady stream of them.

Soyweiser May 17th, 2012 02:38 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Jomon is AI. Suddenly.

Amhazair May 17th, 2012 02:58 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Good thing I have someone checking that for me. I still might not have noticed Marignon going AI otherwise. ;)

Next time I take up adminining I'll have to go through the Calahan-like dance of writing a hundredthousend words to spell out what is and what isn't considered cool. :re: I'd much rather use the time I'm writing down words to write something fun, but it looks like that's the way it must be these days. At least in the Faerun game I admined people "only" disappeared, and I was allready somewhat bumed out by that, but at least they didn't go AI without warning.

In this case, with Jomon not being a major power I think it best not to go through the rollback-and-find-a-sub-dance, but just continue on as we are. At least the people profiting from Jomon going AI should be different from those carving up marignon. (I believe? Not got a perfect idea about who Jomon's neighbours are)

And I suppose I'll put on my sternest boots (I hate putting on my stern boots. What do these people have me doing!!?? :cry:) and go admonish everyone to not go AI without letting me know first.

Admiral_Aorta May 17th, 2012 11:23 PM
Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 
Why on earth is one of the demon lords hanging out in an independent province?

Calahan May 18th, 2012 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 804690)
Jomon is AI. Suddenly.
What's that old Hollywood saying? Never work with Children or Animals or Newbs.

And you are welcome to try and copy my dance moves Amhazair, but I have to warn you that I'm capable of throwing down some pretty mean shapes :cool:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Aorta (Post 804725)
Why on earth is one of the demon lords hanging out in an independent province?
Hhhhmmm, can't recall any special Indy's that have a Demon Lord along for the ride. (I think that info is on the Wiki, but that's down so...). I've seen artefacts on special Indy's on very rare occasions, but never seen (summonable) uniques acting as Indy's. Are you sure it's one of the four Demon Lords? Does it actually name him, as in "the army is commanded by [name] he radiates power"? (or words to that effect). Attack/Probe the province when you can and that note of his unit id with Shift-I.


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