Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Calahan was banned for his abusive signature.

chrisp and Bat/man have been banned for duplicate accounts.

Needless to say I was not involved in either decision.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Thanks llama.

That sounds somewhat fair, still think they could have given Calahan a heads up on that, or at least included the reason with the banning message instead of leaving it blank.

Chrispedersen reaped what he sow I guess, but there was some entertainment value lost there...

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

i took a quick look at callahan's sig once-you mean the link where he was trying to explain something, and the other person kept telling him he was wrong?

if this is why he was banned, i must say that far more abusive things than that go on.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Not that I'm trying to justify Calahans ban now that we know what it was for, but, Calahan, and a lot of other people have done far worse stuff without ever so much as a glance from the mods. But I guess that's an entirely different story.
As for this story, yeah, ban the guy for pointed out the guy with the double account. Once again, great decision.:up:

Oh, yeah, and hypocrites.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Wait, so what was the problem with his signature, exactly? Now I'm curious.

I also don't want to make the mistake myself.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Now I'm wondering how long it will take for someone to actually show up here and give some clear answer regarding this whole mess?
Clearly the mods know about this since Llama obviously corresponded with somebody.

-Why exactly was Cal banned?
-Why no warning but a perma ban after nearly two months?
-Why didn't you check up on the whole matter?
-Is it really harassment to report rule violations? (multiple accounts) If so, are you sane?
-If Bat/man is a double account, why isn't CrisP banned as well? Violation of your own rules again
-Did you only take someones word on it and ban the guy for no reason if he's not really CrisP?
-Do you even bother to check when someone reports something?
-Why are you such hypocrites?

My personal guess regarding this whole matter is that Shrapnel has no idea what in the hell they're doing, or how to handle their business.
Do you ever follow your own rules? Why the hell do you even have them than?

Is it an insult to call a hypocrite a hypocrite when you see one?

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Sometimes its not what is posted as much as how its worded.
Im curious also. But I suspect I would have to see the sig in a PM if the wording of it violates the desired feeling of the forum. Didnt Calahan himself post elsewhere that he suspected the sig was the reason?

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Uh, I don't really want to get involved in this (since, as I hope you understand, I have no power in the matter). But perhaps I should answer some of Executor's questions with *my understanding* of Shrapnel's actions.

-Why exactly was Cal banned?

I believe his signature was a direct insult of Bat/man. I don't remember it though.

-Why no warning but a perma ban after nearly two months?

The rationale is that it wasn't a slip-up, it was obviously a deliberate attempt to be aggressive towards another forum user. Warnings are apparently offered at Shrapnel's discretion when they believe users may change their ways.

As for the nearly two months - it's not really fair to expect Shrapnel staff to read the forums every day. Really that should be (for example) my job. But I am not much of an enforcer.

-Why didn't you check up on the whole matter?

I think they didn't think Calahan was likely to reform having so explicitly gone against forum rules.

-Is it really harassment to report rule violations? (multiple accounts) If so, are you sane?

Well I think Calahan called him a douchebag or something (not sure), rather than merely reporting it.

-If Bat/man is a double account, why isn't CrisP banned as well? Violation of your own rules again

ChrisP was banned as well, I believe.

-Did you only take someones word on it and ban the guy for no reason if he's not really CrisP?

Shrapnel did check - the two email addresses were the same(!).

-Do you even bother to check when someone reports something?

Yep, they do.

-Why are you such hypocrites?

Er...

---

I will repeat that this was not my doing - I'm just trying to explain my perception of Shrapnel's perception. Personally I'm very sorry that Calahan has been banned.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Nope, Chrispedersen is not banned: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=5693

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

chrisp != chrispedersen iirc.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Soy, I don't understand you. I can't find a chrisp listed as a member, banned or otherwise. Everyone here who played a game with him knows chrispedersen signed his (many, many) pms chrisp. Anyone referring to chrisp is referring to chrispedersen. What do you mean?

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Apparently the proof which caused the ban (or apparently the deletion) only applied to ChrisP being Bat/Man.

Im not sure if there was any overlap in the use of those accounts

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

I'm sure you have a far better understanding of Shrapnel than me Llama but I'm going to have to call bull**** on this one.
For one, Shrapnel staff have behaved in a much worse fashion than Calahan.
Take S.R. Krol for example. He clearly has a racist comment in his blog which at least two people find inappropriate there (frightlever, archaeolept). Let's not mention that half the people here think so as well, we're only stating the obvious ones. Than you have at least one person who actually reported that blog (though I'm sure other did as well), that person being me. And has there been any action regarding this? No.
On the other hand you have Calahan, who yes posted a sig that's a direct insult to another user. Calahan gets banned.
Explain to me has a personal insult deserves a perma ban while a racial insult merits nothing? So, yes, I say bull**** and hypocrites. And I won't except any rationale that it was a slip up since he obviously had two years to correct it.

As for Shrapnel reading the forums, no, I don't expect them to read every thread regularly at once. Though if they show up two months late I expect them to explain their actions. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

-Why didn't you check up on the whole matter?

What I meant here is once they found (or rather "someone" pointed out) the sig they should have also checked Calahans claim, however rude it was. It turns out he was correct after all.

CrisP is still not banned even after it was established he had a double account.

MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS:
Registering and using multiple accounts is not allowed. If we determine that you have more than one account (by matching IPs, etc), all accounts will lose their posting privileges.

Sorry Llama, I've got nothing but respect for you and this isn't aimed at you, but.., actually, Maerlande stated what I think perfectly at dom3mods (link below) and that's why this whole situation makes me slightly mad.
Lurkers be advised. BTW, Gandalf, there's no reason to hide the fact you follow at least some threads, if not all, at dom3mods. So speak plainly.
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...opic=835&st=15

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

2 houses not necesarily in the same block could have the same internet IP in some ISPs.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Yeah I was mistaken. My bad. Sorry, ignore that.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

They had the same email address. Unless it was a mailinator account (which most forums don't accept), it's a safe bet that they're socks.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

And apparently ChrisP and Bat/Man were banned (or deleted) since they dont show on the members list anymore.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

So...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=5693

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Exactly. If ChrisPedersen has a different mailbox then nothing.
Even if it was, under mitigating circumstances rolling all accounts into one would fit past corrections also.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Mods
 

That the other half is sane?

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Mods
 

Really nordlys, after the whole drama cools down a bit you want to start it again? This is bovine excrement!

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Almost makes me wish there was some sort of reverse thanks function I could use to express my disgust

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Click those scales on the post.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

ChrisP is a nickname used by chrispedersen, who has neither been banned nor deleted. Bat/man has been banned but not deleted. I don't see any evidence of a user named chrisp. I don't see any evidence of banned user accounts ever being deleted.

pyg, Sombre, Omnirizon, hell even Wikd Thots are all still here, long after their banning.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

???

The only thing that would make sense is banning all his accounts, just like they should have done when other dupes were exposed ;)

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Well if he had a reason and was contrite then rolling the accounts into one has happened in the past.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

You mean like with your old dual account wikd thots?

Well, then we have two cases where double accounts is obviously ok. They just ban the new account and lets you keep the old one, good to know. Bit inconsistent with the official rhetoric but whatever.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

You guys are really something about digging up stuff from years ago. That might be a couple years farther back than even the blog incident. Wow.

Actually I was referring to something more recent iirc altho still enough years ago that many here might not remember.
My accounts were blended at the great site conversion along with lots of other people. That was when they did a huge update to the forum software and a bunch of things broke for awhile. The account blending for me didnt go quite like I wanted since my usual account login gp1628 was blended into my name account. But I didnt want to lose my "joined" date to fix it. Its kindof a pain to remember to use my full name to login with instead of the way I do hundreds of other sites.

Most of the blends at the time were for people who remade for reasons like forgetting their passwords or wanting a space login for Space Empires and a fantasy login for posting to Dom3. They all werent mass-banned. Just asked why and it was fixed if they said they would comply from then on. Most got the "chance to volunteer to be banned" conversation that used to be pretty standard altho that was back when there was more staff.

I think the guy you said was already gone long before that.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Chrispedersen had no valid reason for his double, it was made deceptively to get a clean slate from his very bad reputation.

And I don't see how there was any valid excuse for wikd thots either.

Both of those were much more clear cases where a total ban was warranted than either Calahan or Sombre.

It smells.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Afaik all of TWs got wiped (I think there were 3)
If CP did it for a clean slate then that wouldnt rate on levels such as a temp account to spam sales without getting caught, or to post offensively from an anonymous account, or to multiplay in games that didnt allow it. Those are common reasons for all multiple accounts to be held accountable. Especially if CP didnt use both accounts at once. I think the only offense would be not having deleted the old one.
But I can see where hardcore MPers might feel it was the most capital offense. :)

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

It wasn't me, it was some other guy = the alt definition of contrite?

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Every time something like this happens, the other forum turns into a victim support group.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

That's a compliment I think. ****nel treats person x like **** - community turns into support group for person x, hard to see anything wrong with that.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

ChrisP is certainly getting a hard time of it. I've been told the general history and understand the animosity but you're really out to get him, Fantomen. You have a history with this guy personally?


I see "contrite" but I don't see how its misused. Am I missing another example..?

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Personally I don't think either calahan or chrispedersen should have been banned for the reasons they were. Both were pretty lame reasons for banning, in the scheme of things.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

That's my general feeling as well. Buy hey, we all know Shrapnel is in for all or nothing when it comes to these things.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

I wouldn't want any person banned ever, if it was up to me.

What I would require of Chrispedersen, Gandalf and other people who use alt accounts, is to be honest about it. Do I have a personal history with Chrispedersen? I've played with him and found him a very dishonest and generally frustrating player, but all that I can accept, it's only the part where he creates an alt account to avoid standing up for himself, then keeps acting like a douche, then won't fess up when he's exposed, that I think is really not ok.

What Stagger lee points out in his post is that Gandalf still pretends like he wasn't wikd thots, which was proven, a correct use of "contrite" would require a confession, no? Again, I don't care that he made alt accounts to fake flaming himself, I mean that's actually pretty funny and could be a good joke all around, but it requires that you stand up for what you do.

But the bottom line of all this is the hypocrisy in banning some of the most genuinely contributing members of the community, just because they don't bother to hide their less flattering sides. It's the inability and laziness in not actually bothering to see what's really there. I don't want anyone banned, it's a retarded system, but if you're gonna use it at least use it somewhat responsibly instead of actively harming the community.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Just noted that Shrapnel removed their randomly appearing Eat Electric Death -banner ad from the loop of the banner ads at the top of the site after this ruckus started. It is, say, 4 years since the game was unofficially abandoned? Are they waking up?

But last night you could still pick it up from the Gamers Front...

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

remmember, shrapnel doesn't really know or care what goes on here. they don't know the members. don't know who contributes what, who's a decent lass or lad, or who is a total d-bag.

they have what? 20 forums? while we all like dominions and have friends within the community(like callahan), they just throw it on a server and classify it "game support". so it isn't that surprising they might get it wrong now and then.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

And this is the heart of the problem. Shrapnel doesn't seem to realize this affects them, and not in a small way either. And this is also a problem which could have been easily solved with little to no effort from their part.
How they run their forums directly impacts their sales. If they run it badly (which I think they do), don't care about their members, threat them with disrespect, generally don't bother at all with anything and even manage to split the forum in half like is the case with Dominions, than those members will be less inclined to purchase more Shrapnel games and recommend Shrapnel games to others. Further more, the more livelier the forum is the longer said game will last, meaning, more people will eventually buy the game, more people will get involved in projects, be interested in a sequels perhaps, which that same company might publish, etc. Shrapnel doesn't really care about any of that so it's their own problem they are losing business.

A simple solution to this would have been to appoint several very active and appreciated members to supervise the forum they are active in, and leave those mods to handle internal matters regarding those forums. Help new members, organize new projects, intervene in situations like this where two members were pointlessly banned, etc. I'm sure many member would have been glad to help (people like Soy, WL, Frozen, Maer...) and those people would actually be able to promote harmony on the forums and help the company as well.
Is that really that hard to do? And yet imagine how much better this forum would be, how much more people would be here, how many more people would actively contribute and participate on the forums, and how many more people would actually buy this game?

So I can't really accept anything in defense of Shrapnel since it's their own incompetence that's the cause of all these problems.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

i was not really defending shrapnel. i was just pointing out why i think they made the wrong call here. many good points/suggestions have been brought up, but they are only applicable if someone is paying attention.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

I was wrong, it is still up :/

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

regarding the competence of shrapnel. The whole buying frontend could also use a huge makeover. The defaults are bad, and you have to perform a huge amount of clicks before you can buy something. This is very bad for business. Just improving that site would probably increase their conversion rate a lot. (Funny thing, for games that have multiple OS version, mac is chosen first. No auto-detection takes places. (Shrapnel, either pick windows as default (lets be honest, most games will be sold for windows) or get the browser version and make an educated guess.

I already pointed this stuff out before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...68&postcount=2

*crickets* ;)

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

I don't believe that is an accurate translation of what I said, but you're welcome to take it as a compliment.

I'm a little disappointed that you seem to be out to get Gandolf and ChrisP, which would give them 0 options for community since I am pretty sure you guys are not going to accept them with open arms.

I don't see any issue with the multiple accounts, even the ones the banned guys use to post here, I think banning people is kind of dumb anyway unless they have gone through an infraction system or they created an account to simply break the FCOC.

That being said, I love your avatar and that trumps anything you say on the forums that I would disagree with.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

What is an accurate translation then?

Gandalf is constantly referring to "other" mysterious dom3 communities, so unless he's lying he seems to have plenty of options. Chrispedersen has the option of going back to his old account, as well as joining other forums. And dom3mods welcomes everyone, including Gandalf and Chrispedersen, we just happen to insult everyone as well, if you can take some abuse you'll be fine there. In any case I'm not out to "get" anyone, I just want people to stand up honestly for what they do, and the moment they do all sins are forgiven. Besides, banning Gandalf would also be bad for the community since his server is great for setting up blitzes.

Calling them out for their multiple accounts is to show the hypocrisy in banning other major contributors thoughtlessly. If we can overlook the faults of some, and we should, then we could also forgive the faults of Calahan and Sombre.

Most of all I want Shrapnel to appoint mods from within the community to handle things, to avoid ****ing things up whenever they go on a crusade to promote "harmony".

Exactly, banning people is dumb, which is the whole issue in the first case.

I guess I'll take that as a compliment as well, since that avatar is me.

Different cases of breaking different rules by different people were treated differently. The difference seems to be that shrapnel value contrition over contributions. I agree this is not good for the health of the community but its not hypocrisy.

If you have something to say in Calahan's defence its best not surrounded by an argument that ignores everything shrapnel say and mostly involves attacking someone else.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

More accurately, I was just making fun of the people on the other forum because often it just seems to be a podium for them to disparage other people. Ironic I know.

Beyond that, I think we agree; I hate to see anyone banned from the forums, unless real life threats or attacks (releasing personal information etc.) are involved.

I thought your avatar was a picture of an actress from the black and white movie era. You have a very classic beauty.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

First, this story has a background over years, if you don't get what it is we see as hypocrisy i can't help you. Second, there is no contrition to value over anything else in any of the cases.

I appologize to the community for feeding this troll, he's skilled at it and I fell for it, **** like that always makes me feel dirty.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

As for contrition, that was the message I got from shrapnel (that they didn't think Calahan was likely to "reform" or somesuch).

Perhaps shrapnel will understand your position, but I don't. good luck.

I apologise for getting angry. I'm not helping the matter either.

Re: The Joys of Overzealous Moderators
 

Seems that my absence of a couple of months for various reasons has been supremely ill timed. I will need to check in on the whole issue before weighing in any more than that, but if anyone cares to point me in the direction of the relevant threads, please provide links.

I will get back to this tomorrow, it's past midnight here already and I've got to go to work in the morning.