Re: Height Maps
 

I would strongly suggest trying this its very simple, no need to make perfect maps just get the right topography for the area if you are into making scenarios.
Takes time to fill in hexes correctly but can just do a quick approximation based on google maps satellite & or the map the app uses.

Very simple to do once you have done it once its second nature.
Remember you can turn the map to suit your needs before generating.

Wont cover using this app as covered already but here is a few simple steps to select some suitable terrain.

1)Use a latitude longitude website such as http://latitudelongitude.org/pl/plock/
2)Do one of the following
Select a country then city if that's what you want or select tools - address to latitude longitude.
3)Second option either type in the address or scroll around using google maps satellite view is available if desired & its fast.
4) Once you have an area of interest press the marker to centre button.
5) Cut & paste Lat & Long into this app in another tab & generate the map.
6) I suggest using "save as" so you can move areas slightly in either tab & save another one.
7) Once you have done a few load up the map editor & see what you have.
8) Remember you can crop the map to suit your needs once you have saved it.

Attached are 2 maps showing different topography.
One is a local hill in New Zealand, not a quick climb which dominates the area & yes its well represented with 2 peaks.
Second just a random grab of Afghanistan hills as they rise from the flatter terrain in the bottom left corner.

Different countries / areas produce different types of terrain as they should so let the app help you out or inspire you.

Re: Height Maps
 

Howdy! Hope I'm not intruding in on things, but you (DMNT) mentioned satellite mode in an upcoming version. If this gets pushed out (Which I hope it does--I only have one screen so I can't have SPMBT, Google Earth, and the program all up at once) reckon you can add the ability to flip the colors of the hex grid and such? Being able to flip it from black to white and back again would be awful swell, considering how much of a b* it'd be to load up a satellite view, only to be unable to see the hex grid thanks to the color of the terrain. Just throwing the suggestion out there, and thanks for the lovely map. Can't believe my question turned into all this. Well, by that I mean I can't believe the thread is now about the best editor to ever be in this game.

Re: Height Maps
 

Apart from doing the far left of the map its not much of an issue if you only have one monitor.
1)Open map editor & slide half of it off your screen to the left.
2)Open internet program with the map or google & resize it to fit in the other half of the screen.

Tip before generating the map have a quick zoom in & look at major long roads. If needs be adjust the angle slightly to match them.
Picture shows adjusted remembering while its a bit of a pita to do you can draw roads horizontally & vertically.
Can also consider when doing map if its for general play so rotating makes a more user friendly map.
i.e. Rotate town so edge runs roughly top to bottom & check it falls on one half of the map, as in edge of town is behind centre line so defenders can set up in all of it in a generated battle.

Re: Height Maps
 

How does it look now? The new hex button (lowest right) toggles between white, grey and black hex grids. Opacity is still set at static 30% value, but it could also be adjusted.

Re: Height Maps
 

VERY nice. That allows for a number of ways to display the hex grid to suit the map that's produced

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

Looks fine though prefer original black, thanks for continuing with this its a great little app.

Just my view but contours are fine you have got this to a level where it is very efficient.

Now this is just a thought & aimed more I think at Don & Andy, would it be possible to add the following feature to the map editor to aid with visualising terrain filling.

Auto fill text on the WINSPmap for the coordinates listed on the map.
i.e. from top right 0,0 4,0 8,0 etc.
After the map is completed by my understanding pressing # will clear all the text strings.
This could therefor be implemented if its possible by a key stroke or even SHIFT#

The other pie in the sky question dmnt is you can obviously read & extrapolate the contours data, can you read the terrain data?
If so can you extrapolate main details as in woods, marsh, built up (use red earth or some such)Big question then is can the Camo boys create something that auto populates this data. Guessing that's not how things are set up unfortunately.

Dang anyone know how to set windows transparency?
I used to be able to individually adjust window transparency on my old system with an aftermarket tweak.
Load up map & WINSP map editor
Set map editor window to 80% approx. transparent & just copy the map through it.

Said it before but I would really like to thank Don & Andy for there continued support of this game along with the many other people like yourself dmnt that contribute whether it be with scenarios fact finding or great little apps.

Re: Height Maps
 

I assume you would want that to match game map hex with map hex ?

The game map will display the hex co-ordinates when you mouse over the hex but game maps will NEVER be 100% " earth like" so use a print-out of the map as a guildline in building your game map. There is no point in trying to be 100% as it CAN NEVER BE 100%. What this allows a game map maker to do is already is akin to " Scotty, beam me up" compared to what the original SSI game offered. What Tuomas has created here would have been pie-in-the-sky science fiction in 1997

Re: Height Maps
 

I understand this what I was after if its possible is a key press that adds the cords as a text string as circled in red on the attached picture.

It would just aid with visualization to save time when filling in.

If really wanted & possible could be a key specifically for loading maps from this app.

As in press that key
Sets fill to 250, fills following contours, adds text strings every 4th hex with cords.

As you say map making has come a long way we can even mess with obstacle height & density if we wish. This idea is just the icing on the cake if its feasible.

Only other changes I can think of that might be practical would be to change pavement so it works like other terrain & follows the contour rather than depressing it. Using the same basic tile shape as say impassable terrain would work well bordered by roads etc.

Re: Height Maps
 

Pavement originally flattened the terrain to 0, and was used so that patches of city grid were absolutely flat. So you got that SP1 and SP2 effect of a little sunken village of 2-3 houses "buried" in a ridge...

We let pavement flow over terrain as part of our freeing up of fields etc (They only could be laid on level 0 flatland in the original SSI games).

Pavement still serves the same function of smoothing off an urbanised area, if not as markedly as it once did (it as I said, follows terrain contouring now).

Re: Height Maps
 

Andy doesn't make maps and he's confusing pavement with fields which used to be level 1 only but we added slopes to fields years ago and now they follow contours

Pavement and both types of cobblestones clear terrain to zero which is why I used gray sand as a stand-in for pavement on the Goldap map

--this is why posting at 3:30 am can be a problem:D

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

Yep - doh!:doh::doh:

Re: Height Maps
 

I could also try and see if the generated map could come with the text fields for those hexes. However, I'm not that keen to jump in the binary format without documentation.

I'll try to add the satellite view this week as well as the "donate now" button where people can chip in - but it's not expected, just appreciated. The paypal account is in the name of a dotcom ltd (of which I own part of the shares) where my personal site resides as well, so don't get confused about the recipient of the donation. I have already signed up for billing, but not expecting anything major from there.

Don: The server should be heavy duty enough to cope with the map makers (it's already hosting a fairly popular site), so adding a link to the game manual is not a problem.

Re: Height Maps
 

It's too late for this year but next year I will. At the beginning, I recall there were traffic restrictions and I didn't want to post a link and see it get swamped with people curious about it, but I think now there just isn't the flood of game map makers I thought there might be.

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

Thanks! You are absolutely correct that I requested people not to flood the map creating system as at the time the API access was restricted (limited to free account restrictions) and the implementation was more CPU intensive than the current approach and I didn't want any negative effect for the main site from this hobby of mine. Anyway now it should be able to handle the traffic from the general public.

Re: Height Maps
 

I need step-by-step instructions on this map making utility.

I inserted the following coordinates into the WinSPMBT Map Tool: 31.5178
and 64.1142. Hit the download link and I got my spmap999.dat.

Problem, map does not show in Map Editor. I only have the dat file and not the cmt (not sure if that's a problem as nobody else seems to have reported more than the one map file.)

So, by the numbers, how to get the map into the Map Editor and how to get a winSPMBT map (pictures would be nice too for hard heads.)

<br>

Re: Height Maps
 

1) I stopped using the coordinate system and just press go. It will take you to the eastern Atlantic somewhere.

2) Zoom out.

3) Point and click your way to where you want to go.

4) Zoom in.

5) Use the + centre hex grid function (found in the upper right corner) to set the map.

6) Download the map.

7) Place the map in the game map folder. You might want renumber it otherwise it'll be 999.

8) I also use the link funtion and email the map link to myself. Then open the venhola map program link on my other computer.

9) Load the map in the editor. It will have no name and appear blank - but it isn't. Use grass or some other terrain that does not change heights and fill in the entire map and the differences in height will show. (There is also a way to fill the map with the basic green/winter/desert terrain - but maybe we can learn that part next class...)

10) Fill in water, roads, towns etc. Save early, save often.

I have my older computer set up next to my newer one. I open the map program with the link function using my older machine and work and edit on the gamemap itself on my newer computer. It saves time. I guess you could use two screeens to get the same sort of result. Often I use other map sources for additional information...

Re: Height Maps
 

Load the map in the editor
Select fill following contours of map, first button on second page
Set the fill range high so it covers the whole map, solid or your preference.
Wait a few seconds for terrain heights to be filled in then save the map.
Now edit as normal.

Saving the link is very important especially if you have adjusted the angle as you now have the infomation to fill in the map.

Being able to adjust the angle from the map screen would be a nice feature so you can adjust it a couple of degrees to see the results.
Look at long straight roads runways etc & adjust the angle to best depict them or some other major terrain feature before generating the map.
Keep in mind left right works best for deployment when rotating the map top does not need to be North.

Re: Height Maps
 

Please explain, "saving the link," how is it used? What information is available to fill in the map?

Thank you

<br>

Re: Height Maps
 

The link provides you the opportunity to return to the Map Tool and accurately recreate your hex map you downloaded (Including the rotation of the Map Tool map you may have done). For me, when I'm working on a map it will take me hours until I can get the basic road system, town layout, streams, etc done.

The map tool gives you the terrain, filling in the rest from the linked page is up to you. Having the link saves you from what I used to do, which was multiple screen print the Map Tool page and then refer to those prints to draw in the other map features. I can reload the Map Tool map complete with the rotation I may have put in, and return to generating the game map I am working on any time I choose.

One thing I learned from the latter, is I stopped using exact hex numbers to draw entire roads, etc. I set key waypoints counting hexes, then eye the roads and towns in from there. It may not be as accurate, but due to the scale difference between the Map Tool and the game graphics, it will save you many Tearing Out Your Hair moments. Also, you can soften the generated Map Tool Map to better fit road alignment, etc.

Finally, I use the same map coordinates I fed into the map tool, then go to google maps and look to man made features (fields, farms, etc) to mesh that into the map.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Re: Height Maps
 

I make a screen shot of the map area then print it out and use it for reference.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1510748725


IDK exactly what he means by link as the link that shows when you make a map does not bring me to that same map

Re: Height Maps
 

There is an option to save the link in the map tool which works like the favorite button in your browser, could use favorite button if you prefer.

Open the map tool with the link & it opens on the location you saved to your favorites folder in your browser.

Unfortunatly I dont have mine anymore but if you have a windows 7 machine & if its still available download from Stardock free their version of windows aero mode you can adjust individual windows transparency.
Set map editor to aroud 70% place it over the map link in your browser & trace the details showing through from underneath.

Re: Height Maps
 

<br>

Re: Height Maps
 

Yep.... The L button.... just found it myself even though I've looked at it dozens times......

Re: Height Maps
 

Map Lebanon Litani River 33.338918, 35.250556 at the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea.

Resources: Google Earth, www.gps-coordinates.net, WinSPMBT Map Tool.

According to Google Earth and the GPS-Coordinates mapping tool, the generated map in WinSPMBT should not contain the resultant elevations evident in the generated in the Extended Mapping Tool.

Using the coordinates found in the WinSPMBT map tool, the Litani River meets the Mediterranean Sea at 33.338, 35.250. These coordinates do not appear to align with Google Earth or the GPS-Coordinates tool.

I am at a loss to resolve the apparent discrepancy.


<br>

Re: Height Maps
 

Some things like that you just have to edit in manually

Re: Height Maps
 

Yeah, I can understand that, having to edit in manually certain features like rivers, roads, buildings, even the ocean and coastline as well.

I reported in an earlier post: "According to Google Earth and the GPS-Coordinates mapping tool, the generated map in WinSPMBT should not contain the resultant elevations evident in the generated [in the] Extended Mapping Tool."

The high elevations DO exist in Google Earth inland from the coast; my mistake.
<br>

Re: Height Maps
 

I'll have a look at it. However if the data from google API is wrong there is no way to have a correct result in the produced map file.

Meanwhile I'm moving the stuff to a new server and expect possibly a small break in service close to the end of month.

Re: Height Maps
 

At least https://www.google.fi/maps/place/33%...5.250556?hl=en
shows that it's not that leveled and judging by the attachments here I can't see any obvious faults. Is there a specific point where you think the terrain map fails bad? Or is it just feeling too mountainous in general?

Re: Height Maps
 

I haven't said it lately but again....this is a wonderful tool you have built for the game

Re: Height Maps
 

I now understand that I have to insert the coastline and river into the game map. Yeah, I expected, incorrectly, that at hex 68,100 the Litani river's inland path would begin. But the tool does not depict bodies of water, rivers, or roads.

Thanks for taking a look and the kind response.

<br>

Re: Height Maps
 

Good news, everyone!

I recently did a change so that whenever you place the grid on the map the URL on your browser location bar changes and is copy/paste compliant. What's even better is that it doesn't break the old url scheme but redirects to the new one.

The URL is now like http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#...780275752547,5

where the first value in the comma separated list after hash sign (in this example 24.87101620780233,60.22780275752547,5) is longitude, second one is latitude and last one is rotation (in degrees).

The link providing "L" button still gives out the old URL format but as explained above, is turned into this new user friendly format. Enjoy, folks!

Re: Height Maps
 

The link I use is
http://www.venhola.com/maps/

and it brings me to the
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Input coordinates in WGS84

Latitude (decimal, negative = southern hemisphere)
0.0
Longitude (decimal, negative = western hemisphere)
0.0
Rotation (degrees)
0
Go!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
screen and it still functions normally for me and it seemns a bit easier for anyone to see the coordinates to enter

Re: Height Maps
 

BTW... it was your program that inspired the changes you will see to the load map screens for next patch..

Re: Height Maps
 

A problem has developed. I tried to generate a map this morning and got an error message. I thought perhaps it was because I was using my original link but I just tried the one you provided in post 131 and the same message appears


What is ........" the JSON module " ?

Re: Height Maps
 

Looks like I forgot to install the required modules on the Google api script. It is lacking the JSON data format handling module on the new server and can't download the contours.

I'll try to fix it right now.

Re: Height Maps
 

Should be fixed now.

Re: Height Maps
 

Not quite yet.........

Re: Height Maps
 

Yeah right, forgot to put that google API key file in place. :doh:

This time it works, I promise! (at least it did download for me) :D

Re: Height Maps
 

Confirmed now working again

Thanks

Great program.......

Re: Height Maps
 

Seems like I'm having a problem downloading the .dat file. I get an error message "spmap.999.dat couldn't be downloaded". I've tried to open it in explorer as well as Edge and get the same error. It saves to my download as an IE icon file but won't open. Any ideas?

Tom

Re: Height Maps
 

Never mind....I got it working. I've been working in computers for over 40 years and it has been a Love-Hate relationship!!!

Tom

Re: Height Maps
 

Question to dmnt:

I assume that the SP map files are like many other things, RLE (Run Length Encoded) -- I've looked at them myself over the years.

Is there a specific format they follow for their RLE compression?

Re: Height Maps
 

As far as I have figured out the format they're not - at least the parts I am poking. The height / tile / slope stuff there is just variable length data. Adding water to the mix has proven to be quite a challenge with the amount of time I can invest in it.

Re: Height Maps
 

Mind if I ask a question of my own?

Do you think we'll have satellite view in the foreseeable future? I've only got one monitor, and boy howdy it's a pain to switch between three different views (Game, Earth, map) to get everything down. Thanks for this masterpiece, by the way. It's already sped things up enough as it is!

Re: Height Maps
 

I have 2 work arounds for making the maps with 1 monitor.

The first is simply to zoom in to where the grid is legible but covers a good sized area and print ou the screen image.

The second is involves using Photoshop. I open PS and create a new project (paper sized) and then I open my browser and go to the map maker website. When I have my location set I start in the lower left hand area of the 'map zone' and zoom in to a level that the grid appears legible. I then 'Print Screen' and switch to PS. I 'Paste' into the new document the screen shot, trim off the none map zone area of the image and print it out.
Reset view with a slight overlap and repeat.
Using a new layer each time I can sometimes get multiple zones on a single sheet of paper.

The second method (PS) is simply to reduce the amount of printing and paper shuffling. The first method is quicker but will take a lot of paper with a relatively small strip of the map on each page.

This way I can be in WINSP making a map and have a paper reference of the area I am making. I may not be an ideal work around for everyone and Sometimes I need a magnifier glass to read the details but it enables me to stay making the map and not constantly exiting WINSP to check the grid details with 1 monitor.

Re: Height Maps
 

I've thought about it, a lot, but the problem is that the good quality satellite view doesn't seem to be available outside of google maps and that does not work outside of google stuff - so I'd have to write a separate web app for that. And it's not the simplest thing ever.

If people have better ideas I'm all ears.

Re: Height Maps
 

We're lucky. Since I last checked things have progressed and now Google provides an API to get the actual satellite map tiles. It's not as straightforward as it is with the openstreetmap tiles we're currently showing, but still manageable. I'll add them as an option when I have some time.

Re: Height Maps
 

Had to go with Bing Maps API as Google requires "a contact to sales" before allowing the API. That means I should have a well defined use case and pay something for the privilege. This time Bing map tiles should be good enough.

Try http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo2.php#64,26,0 for early testing. Downloading maps won't work at this url as it's a work in progress.

Re: Height Maps
 

Very nice! That's an excellent resource just as information alone. It's quick to adjust the location and the resolution and clarity seems better than Google.

Re: Height Maps
 

Awesome! Agree with Don seems much faster and clearer.