Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Not one to go back and forth to this wonderful video, here's the written companion to the video.
https://tankrecognition.blogspot.com...cognition.html

To the German offer of BMP-1 I can assure you Germany will not give non refurbished equipment to Ukraine if for no other reasons that it would both embarrass and cause criticism them.

And there are also international legal issues that could arise. And most important it might also adversely affect their foreign weapons sales.

That being said, they wouldn't have to offer to upgrade them in any way.

That will be the thing to keep track of, if they do.

As already posted KMW was offering from their private stock around 50-55 GEPHARPS SPAA systems, it was indicated they would update the radar systems and possibly the FCS as well. They of the latest version that last served in the BUNDESWEHR.

I would not be surprised if we don't see them in country within the next 3-4 months and 6 months (We call that "hedging your bet(s)") at the outside. ;)

And now we have this (I hope there'll be no reprisals but...) and BUCHA also.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...id=mailsignout

Makes me glad I served under the seas compared to some... never mind.

Regards
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Saw on Facebook that these BMPs are going to the Czech Republic and then to Ukraine. I am sure that they will be in wonderful condition and functional, unlike the MANPADs Germany sent.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Yeah, that was stupid and yes, an embarrassment. I wish I could still speck or read German to see if there was any fallout from that.

It goes against my "inherited" sense of efficiency and organization!?!

It'll be interesting to see within the next few weeks what other weapons get into the Ukraine such as those Czech Republic T-72M and S-300 systems from Slovenia I believe I posted already.

I've paid more attention to those videos looking very closely at the camo paint schemes on both countries armor. Well that Armor modeling site has absolutely got it right from what I've seen to date. That was a day or two ago.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

You computer guys might like this.
A little play on an Old School song "Hackers Delight" as they've very active in Russia of late...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...out&li=BBnbfcL

Also, since this was posted seems there's some unconfirmed stories Russia has shot down a handful or less of their fighters.

But the following is confirmed story deals with why Russia is using one of their best fighter bombers to drop "DUMB" bombs in Ukraine? Also how good is it's EW after reading this?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...0e4766abfb1bda
http://www.military-today.com/aircra...4_fullback.htm

I think I'm taking the rest of the day off, OK MAYBE!?!
Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I think the German BMP-1s are ex Swedish PBV 501s.

In the 90s Sweden bought discount ex NVA kit from Germany, MTLB and BMP-1s to give infantry brigades shrapnel protection. The BMP-1s were initially meant for use in northern Sweden IIRC but the narrow tracks did poorly in snow. The MTLB (Pbv 401 saw use, but have since been sold to Finland).

The PBV 501s were modified but never really used by any units. Eventually sold back to the Czech company that did the modifications. I heard some of them went to equip the new Iraqi army. I guess they had some left.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

This is for anyone who is Ukrainian or can read Ukrainian or has access to the kind of data apparently ONLY WE USE

How many troops in a Ukrainian platoon?

I think it is three sections of 8

crappy translation
Right now I have that as close as the game can be with 4 plt's in a Coy and a command and some support units but it is near impossible to find a breakdown at the company -> section level and right now I feel what I have in there now for the Territorials is " good enough" but if anyone knows of a source let me know where it is ASAP

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

This is "live" from these refs...
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...unded-26632401
Artem said: “We were in a reconnaissance group of about 35 soldiers, and we laid a trap, getting ready to attack them and then opened fire.

3 Battalions in a Brigade
https://www.ukrmilitary.com/p/ukrain...nd-forces.html

Went to their Defense Ministry and there's no help there.

Didn't do Wiki but pops on on my search variations.

Following though off topic came up on one or two of searches might be useful for a campaign builder.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...ukraine-crisis

Losing my light maybe a BRISK walk will clear my head on a different approach to the question.

Pat

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Some Observations
I think quite a lot of the Russian tanks are not fully equipped as in none functional ERA & pre Arena active defence systems are not very good.
Does it need to be looking in the direction the shot is coming from to work?
Reasoning for this.
During Chechenia some tanks were definitely deployed without ERA & I do not remember active protection systems being very effective then.

From photographic evidence two things tend to happen when tanks are hit.
Either catastrophic ammo explosion & flying turrets, seems to happen to virtually all tanks involved in that engagement.
I would postulate despite looking like they have ERA they are not functional.
The other result is the tank being penetrated or despite the fact its a flank shot surviving the first 1 or 2 attacks. These do not initially blow up though they might do so later but the crew often have time to get out.
These have ERA it can stop shots & if penetrated it absorbs a lot of the energy hence no ammo cook off. As they may explode later I would also say fire suppression capability is poor.
Game terms survivability should be less in tanks with no or limited ERA.

To me if you think about it both outfitting the vehicles & training suffer due to the size of the army. Your not talking about outfitting a couple hundred or even a few thousand tanks like Western countries.
The cost would be prohibitive as would training them all to a decent standard. Training rounds for example how many would you need to train everyone to a decent level, then of course there is maintenance costs.

Game terms you would need another OOB troop & tank quality could vary greatly in my view. Also I think Russia expected the Ukraine to just give up when faced with an army of that size, I would bet a lot of the tanks involved in the military exercise are lacking their ERA.


On APS I have only seen 1 tank equipped with a modern active protection system & that looked like it was destroyed by artillery.
Also ATGM use seems rare possibly due to the nature of most engagements. My guess RPG type weapons are preferred because you can pop out take the shot & run.

For me the jury is out I do not know if Arena on is effective or not.
Game terms we have 2 systems I think one should remain as is to represent things like Trophy & possibly Arena & the other should be really dumbed down.

These are just observations make of them what you will not researched anything.

As a side note the Ukraine air force seems to be surviving by using the roads & nape of the earth. Laughed when I saw the fighter that returned with a road sign attached, they are flying low.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Andy and I are of the opinion that, in Ukraine at least, Arena installation is NOT as common as was thought and I have, for the game AI anyway, made Arena tanks radio code 91 ( rare ) and introduced some versions without it that are radio code 92 (common ) which cuts down on the number of them showing up under AI control

What I had been lead to believe was the later gen arena launchers appear now to be just smoke grenade launchers

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1649151352

So it would appear the effectiveness or lack of in regards to Arena is more a case of it just not being installed in the majority

OR given most of the wrecks ***appear*** to have been made that way from attacks to the side it is just not that effective from that direction

OR

all or any of the above

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Never expected to see this in reality, but here is footage of something it's not that uncommon in the game.
An ATGM shooting down a helo.

https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status...UovUD7zvlfDdgg

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL2N2VX2PI

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

For the systems to work they need to be installed and if installed.... turned on. There are no reports ( we are seeing ) that indicated any attacking missiles were defeated by anti-missle systems and that could be for anyone of three reasons

• They just are not installed as extensively as assumed
• They just don't work
• They weren't activated

Any one of those or all three. Shora ( VRRS ) (it would appear) needs to pick up the targetting laser for the missle. If it doesn't have one and it would appear it's not being fired towards the direction the turret sensors are pointed it's not going to deploy

ARENA (it would appear)............"uses a multi-function Doppler radar, which can be turned on and off by the tank commander. In conjunction with radar input, a digital computer scans an arc around the tank for threat"

So it has to be turned on and it "scans an arc around the tank" an "arc" does not suggest 360 degrees

The bottom line here is there is much we don't know because those that do know aren't revealing the strengths and weaknesses of the systems

What we do appear to "know" that in the past month if it's on and working it doesn't seem to be doing anything . Certainly the growing piles of burnt out scrap steel would suggest this but again....... it's not a "fair judgement" of a systems performance if they are not installed as SEEMS to be the case

The final bottom line is we can only simulate these systems in a limited way. The game does not differentiate between targeting systems and in the case of Shora many "modern" targeting systems do not use laser and the sytem ( that we know about ) seems to rely on that

There have been adjustments made to both the availability of these systems based on what APPEARS to be the case in 2022 and their effectiveness in detecting and defeating ATGM but it won't be perfect because it can never be perfect

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I wonder how that deal is panning out.......
https://militaryleak.com/2020/06/28/...n-battle-tank/

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Not entirely sure what happened with this battle, but...wow?
https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/st...CURK9OqfBF1vsg

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

^Well, it's heavily edited, but at I see at least 2 BTRs totalled and prob a T72 damaged. The Ukrainian tank basically ambushed the Russian convoy from close range.

I'm sure I did have an encounter just like that in one of the scenarios/quickbattles in MBT.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

The drone footage from this war has been particularly informative. The "ID tags" was a nice touch

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Just a follow up on this it may not be true in all cases but it appears from recent photos I have seen that the Ukrainian Regulars tend towards blue and the Territorial units tend towards yellow but it is not always 100% clear who's reg and who's militia though the regs seem better outfitted and I have seen blue and yellow together on the same armband

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Seen the Stugna-P ATGM kill of a stationary hovering KA-52 yet?

Note how they put the cursor near the Ka-52, but keep it off the helo until about 3 seconds before impact, to avoid setting off laser warning sensors on the helicopter?

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Post #110 above

Yes. I wondered about that when I saw the video. That system has a manual and a fire-and-forget mode. Fire-and-forget provides automatic control of the missile flight using a targeting laser beam that does not require manual tracking of the target.

I may be wrong but in that case, it looked like they may have been using manual mode

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Scary how easy it is to fool the system. Good scary in this case, but still.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/send-swarm


I added Switchblades to the Ukrainian OOB a couple weeks ago along with drones using the light helicopter unitclass and the Switchblades will also be found in the USA and British OOB under the control of elite specialist units ( Ukraine Spetsnaz, US Ranger , British RM Cdo ) The spotter drones were added to 19 OOB's

....and yes, when used together they are quite effective


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidha...h=66b61c5a7e6b


I have not included this larger version of the Switchblade into the OOB's.........yet ........due to its very limited availability but one could easily be simulated by using the Israeli Hafiz / Spike NLOS coupled with a spotter drone

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Sudden urge to watch Ender's Game.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Bushmasters in Ukrainian colors.
https://www.ptisidiastima.com/austra...e-bushmasters/

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I don't know how accurate this "legion of Russians" is, but I thought to share this video.
I read about it a few more times, but I don't really have any facts about it.
It almost sounds like they are not going to fight inside Ukraine, but in Russia. I don't know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ61bjLhhww

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Overall sounds like the update will be ready when it's ready. I'll download it when it's done.

troopie

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Check back in a couple of weeks, by then we should have a better idea of a release date. FOR SURE it won't be next week

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

For a lot of reasons expect this year to be the last update for both games. If there's another one it's because something SERIOUSLY needs fixing or we both had brain farts and forgot what a massive PITA it is to do this every year.

24 years is a long time to do anything

Also do not expect the number of scenarios in either game like in the past few years. Neither of our main scenario / campaign contributors have had a good year in any way, shape or form.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Just wanted to give a quick thank you for the hard work you guys have done to keep this game going all these years. Hope we will all still be playing this for many years to come.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Thanks


So do we

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Who would have thought we'd see something like this a month ago ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE9finPXF3o

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Well though this is good news for the N/NE Ukraine, it will not be for the East. Several news agencies have for instance have shown a slightly over 8-mile column of trucks and 100's (unspecified number of) of various armored vehicles.

Russia is preparing for what they should've done from the beginning, strike on a concentrated semi-broad front out of Donbas region and Crimea with the goal to encircle a large part of the Ukrainian forces that have been defending the Donbas region for the last 5-6 years. .

If the Ukraine losses here and more so doesn't extract a large portion of those troops, it will lead to potentially opening up of the central part of the country and to major/substantial Russian territorial gains.

This upcoming offensive, somewhat underway now as the video Don posted shows, will determine the fate of the country and who'll be in the "driver's seat" at the negotiating table.

Some Generals (Ours) can see the upcoming offensive as being the largest battle in that part of Europe since 1943.

Of course, they would be speaking of the Battle of Kursk (or Battle of Prokhorovka, Kursk.)
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE


The big shift for Russia beyond their force deployment is that they've centralized the command authority by appointing Gen. Aleksandr V. Dvornikov who's a very experienced having served in the Second Chechen War and was Commander of Russian forces in Syria.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-calls-discha/

Government officials also reporting here that apparently Ukraine has/or roughly has, a 10:1 advantage in Javelins to Russian tanks committed in the Ukraine area. If even at halve that number that would be significant advantage.

Slovakia (Corrected.) as was confirmed this morning, has sent all their S-300 systems to the Ukraine they should already be there sometime today or tomorrow at latest their time.

We have sent them a full Patriot Battery I'm sure of course manned by our troops.

Need to verify which S-300 they operated which could lead to significant increase to performance capabilities.

Round 1 goes to the Ukraine hands down. Round 2 could decide the game.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

The Javelins are handy because they do not require set up time like the Skif but either version of the Skif will get the job done

The game-changer on a lot of levels will be if the Russians use their artillery the way they did "in the old days" which will create a lot of collateral damage but it will make setting up ATGM kill zones problamatic

The other change that might occur is more reliance on basic infantry to clear areas of AT teams before moving armour forward. Either way, it's gonna get ugly

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Yep and pretty much what they reported at the beginning of March as well

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/01/huge...hing-kyiv.html

That didn't pan out as planned......

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I can confirm this deal was under contract as the article indicates. What's at issue because of the Ukrainian War, what will be the "fall out" from this. As the article indicates this as well was a "power projection" move by China with this full 20 aircraft contingent arriving at the same in Serbia. CNN just reported Zelinsky to speak to the S. Korean National Assembly of the Republic of Korea, I wonder about what? They would like to send a message of their own to China. Material support to Ukraine could be it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...0ef01eacaa245f

Sweden and Finland pressing for NATO membership. Lots out there about this. What Russia didn't want to happen in Ukraine on their Eastern border will mark my words happen on its NE eastern border with Finland.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...5448bb845effbc
https://history.state.gov/historical...rus1949v04/d62
https://www.sps.ed.ac.uk/sites/defau...e_Handbook.pdf

Those above are part of the "spider web" around the center of it of course being the Ukraine and Russia.

This mission has quietly been confirmed with a variation of "I can neither confirm or deny" or "Speak to any particular operations" so I guess we'll never know if SAS, Green Berets or SEALS are taking pictures or video. This would provide some excellent battlefield intel. On the highlighted "blue wording" click on them for further information.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=10a7efb26710

Now this next I did click on the blue. You might remember that I was pretty adamant about my comments concerning the Russian "bird cage" over the turrets of their tanks and some APC's. I basically said they were crap and would not stop a modern tandem warhead top attack weapon. So, to make my point on that and Stugna-P multi-tasking.

YOU MUST FOLLOW DIRECTIONS TO SAVE YOU TIME FOR THE ABOVE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ENJOY THE REST AT YOUR LEISURE.

Scroll down to 5 APRIL AND START COUNTING...
Video #1 STUGNA-P taking a helicopter.

Video #3 2 T-72B3 just after top attack. It's FAST but in the beginning, you'll see one T-72B3 had a "bird cage" and like the rest of the tank what's left of it.

Video #12 Unidentified T-72 hit by a "pile driver" and where's the hull!?! Stay with it as he pans around the tank. Killed and buried at the sometime. I make no light of it.

Scroll down to 6 April, well you know as you just did it...
Video #2 STUGNA-P taking out a T-72 variant.

Video #3 T-72B1 "Pile Driver" Top Attack.

Video #9 T-72B3 "How about that cage" definitely traditional top attack. JAVELIN and NLAW like most other TA ATGW turret separation is a sure sign of them likely having been the cause of it.
https://twitter.com/BarracudaVol1/st...33247284527122

I'm just making an educated guess here and more so with 5 APR Video #12
and possibly 6 APR Video #3 I feel was done by a precision munition along the line of our EXCALIBUR 155mm munition. It is CONFIRMED that they both have and have used them. Note dates of and in the article.
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...rget-1647.html

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

What Happens to Russian Tank After a Shot from ATGM System

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...stem-2490.html

Ukrainian Stugna ATGM's Hunting on Russian TOS-1 Buratino MLRS. Detailed Video of System's Crew Work
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...work-2472.html

Russian Occupiers Lost 3 TOS-1A MLRS While Running Away From Kyiv Region
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...gion-2451.html


In the case of the TOS I have other info that claims the Ukrainians have now started using the captured TOS against the Russians ( and why it is now in the Ukrainian OOB )

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Javelin vs NLAW: Ukrainian Soldier Explains from Own Experience which of the Two is More Effective Against Russian Armored Targets

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...gets-2495.html

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Someday the new additions will stop but it's not going to be today

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ideo-2514.html

Expect a MUCH different Ukrainian OOB than the one you have now

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

The way things shape in the last years, I'd expect a different OOB for most of countries in Europe.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

There have been new units added in other OOB's but nothing comes close to Ukraine

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Ukrainian claims of Russian losses as of today

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/the_4...afts-2516.html

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Don,
Can confirm yours about TOS-1 as well through my sources.

I to have seen reports of units using both in a "combined arms" tactical situation. These guys (And I use this generically for both sexes as both are fighting hard.) are fighting a better tactical battle and plain "out foxing" the Russians.

I've said for years out here they are better than most-I'm leaving it at that.

Now another strand to the Ukrainian "Spyder Web" from the Polish Govt. earlier today their time.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...16bc79ff6545a2

Moscow didn't like him, or his policies and I remember that crash as it made world news and there were immediate suspicions then of assassination.

And the world keeps revolving.

To think this all started for me with OPLOT-M.

Looking back, I'm sure Don is thrilled about that!?! ;) :D (Morale booster for you know who!)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Pat there was talk about the Germans Selling 100 PzH 2000 to Ukraine

https://interfax.com.ua/news/general/822908.html

Great..... ANOTHER unit to enter. I have a feeling some of this is going to end up chewing on my derriere

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Don,
Seen that to just wasn't sure about it.

Well, I'm going to "hang my butt out there" to by SUGGUSTING the tanks might be the LEOPARD 1A5 POSSIBALY equipped with the 120mm/L44.

The LEOPARD 1A5 is the ONLY ONE in that series designed to mount that weapon. The weapon was tested on that platform and a further development of it came with the LEOPARD 1A6 which didn't get beyond the Prototype Stage due to the LEOPARD 2 fielding in numbers that the LEOPARD 1A6 wouldn't have made practical sense due to improvements of the former and cost. The following is USA TRACOC source both listed A15/6 at the bottom
https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...ttle_Tank_(MBT) .

I might've one upped you here!?! :rolleyes:

More on this later, got get someone lunch and to the airport!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

A wee problem but don't worry about it. I have an overflowing plate as it is

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

If you are really interested in Smolensk Severny 10.04.2010 aerodrome Air Disaster now rather word assassination is more correct. In the light of today published materials by Smolensk commission. Here you can check this yourself and create own opinion! Here is short video and summary about this in English
https://tvpworld.com/59571619/smolen...igation-report

And here biggest repository with documents data university publications in English about this
https://www.smolenskcrashnews.com/

Work about Smolensk was done by commission last 6 years to found the true in case of many lies by peoples inside Poland from Polish government at that time just from the beginning in 2010 and also that main evidence wreckage of aircraft is still in Russian hands and Russians will not give them in foreseeable future (probably never).

And, yes war crimes in Ukraine put new light on that event 12 years ago and debunk a myth that Russian state was not able do this because is just a normal state with normal "politicians". That also open question about "politicians" inside Poland and extent of their collaboration during that event with Russia?
Here https://tvpworld.com/59565788/memory...slaw-kaczynski

BTW. "Poisoned Fruit of Katyn Masacre" Genocides without punishment made perpetrators more brave and also people from next generations looks back and will said we can do the same. Here is opinion of Polish President that lack of "Nürenberg" style trials for crimes of Communism created this new genocides on Ukraine and we repeat our history again in circles. Video with English subtitles
https://tvpworld.com/59562999/we-mus...on-katyn-crime

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Seems like old times...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...a272d682e266a9

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

My favorite part was the last paragraph.
Basically the Ukrainians went on vacations, had gifts or whatever by the FSB and decided to not betray their country.
Hilarious.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Many of you will know about Russkiy Mir.

Posted for those that don't


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WEBwsuQf0

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

More on that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F7UQUsFQgQ


and what is said at around the 3 min mark may be true..... or not but that's all part of the "game". If the other side isn't already paranoid.... no problem.... just hint at things like that

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

That is true but that is only a theory :doh:
like on that paint from Tsarist times "Allegory of Russkiy Mir"
https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/co...sMiIY,w400.jpg

in practice Russkiy Mir is more like on this paint from USSR times:
https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/co...C7fhf,w400.jpg

"Prophetic" music video from 2020 by Red⭐Tide Russkiy Mir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFKNinBkq1I



but in reality is more like that:
- Russkiy Mir for ordinary peoples in Mariupol recorded in Zaphorosia evacuation centre their stories in english video 5min
https://www.wykop.pl/link/6595057/ru...ego-czlowieka/

- The villager who buried those he couldn't save from Russian occupiers english video 3min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-afNM-jlNlQ

- Sharing space with the dead - horror outside Chernihiv English video 4:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-afNM-jlNlQ

- Stories of sexual violence against Ukrainian women from Russian forces
English video 5:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgtXV9VBxEE

- How Russian soldiers brutalized a Ukrainian family (and they are probably the lucky ones :confused:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8mFjVp-ZPE

- They were shooting everybody, women and children: presbyter from Bucha
https://tvpworld.com/59601436/they-w...ter-from-bucha