Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

All very good points, and I can't argue with any of them. Hell, I even thought of the negative maintenance=resource generation before I checked back here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif And I very much like the idea of ship-specific mounts (ala mQNP). So that is the way it will go. Of coarse, now I have to dig into the mounts text file, that I don't even know the name of (tells ya how much I've played in THAT file, huh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Of coarse, I was kinda fond of the crossover components that had other functions as well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Besides, it would have helped with the roleplaying... Hmmmmm... An idea is forming....

wait for it...

wait for it....

lost it. Oh well....

[ November 04, 2002, 13:03: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Well dumbluck just remember, when it's your mod you can do whatever you want. So it's not really neccesary for you to agree with anyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Ah, HA!

consider this:

All levels (corrosponding with shipcon levels ) of the mounts for Engineering Department gives a 5% reduction. It is the only component with a mount available to escorts.

Maintenance access tube mount is available from level 1 on up, and grants a 10% reduction for levels 1 and 2, and a 5% reduction for level 3 on up. The component itself is attained by researching Shipcon 2. It is the only component (besides engineering) available for Frigates and escorts.

Crew's Mess mount is available from level 3 on up, and grants a 10% reduction for level 3. Level 4 on up gets a 5% reduction.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

In this way, the lowest maintenance percentage a hull can achieve (without racial modifiers) is 95%. I think. Anyway, I gotta run.

[ November 04, 2002, 13:20: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">CompEnhancements.txt

And it shouldn't be too hard, just adapt the general format I gave an example of for the Engine-oriented mQNP mounts.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here's one: just lower the % reduction for maintenance for each part. Maybe give 'em 3 levels, and make the reduction 1% per level per part. Then, even nine parts, all at level 3, is still only a 27% maintenance reduction. That's a workable range, if you go up ... um ... say 3% per ship level, in maintenance PENALY levels ... and borrow SJ's maintenance model from P&N (higher innate maintenance rates, with each ship getting a discounted rate, etc, etc).

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

I haven't really dug into the guts of P&N, I just like to play it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif In fact, I've never really dug into the guts of ANY mod till now...

But I think I'm gonna stick with this model for now, at least until I find that it isn't working as well as SJ's... Why did he do that, anyway? Is that how he "fixed" the maintenance aptitude trait?

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Correct.

I set the basic maintenance rate to 100% of ship cost per turn.
I then added a 75% maintenance reduction to the ship hulls.

Since the maintenance reduction trait SUBTRACTS from the basic maintenance, a race that takes +20% to maintenance reduction would pay 80% maintenance per turn. The ship hull's ability then reduces that to 80% x (100%-75%) = 20%
A race that takes +60% to maint redux, will end up paying 10% maintenance instead of the normal 25%.

1) Race maintenace modifiers and the basic rate will ADD with each other.

2) Ship/base/component modifiers will ADD with each other.

3) The two Groups' totals are multiplied together for the final calculation.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd say ... no dice. The problem here is, what's to stop someone with a 200kT escort from essentially getting more maintenance -reduction-, than they get -maintenance- ... ?
The upper limit of maintenance reduction must not drive a race with so much inherent maintenance reduction they are already paying very little as-is, or their ship could be PRODUCING resources (and I don't know if negative maintenance costs gives the EXE fits or not). Possibly a maintenance model more like that of P&N could help.

But the main thing is, the "one per ship" components, won't have a minimum shipsize (unless you go with an mQNP style series of mounts for THEM, too. Come to think of it, mount-based Lifesupport and Crew Quarters and Bridge units sounds like an interesting idea ... the bridge of a 1600kT Dreadnought should be larger than the bridge of a 200kT Escort ... shouldn't it?).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, the protential problem is, ESCORTS with net NEGATIVE maintenance. An escort where you get, say, 25% of it's value back, every turn ... ugh! (120% racial maintenance trait, 3 maintenance reducers at 10% each, stock SE4 maintenance costs paradigm; your normal 5% maintenance costs, minus 30% from the components, gives you back 1/4 of the cost to build the ship in the first place).

The problem is, I don't believe COMPONENTS can be limited to minimum hull sizes.

Also, some of the medical-related and Pyschology-based facilities might do well as Life Support replacements, or else, a LS/Maintenance component especially for Organic-tech ships (a la Living Ships in P&N perhaps).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Check the SE4 Modder thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Or maybe PBW's Utilities downloads ...

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Regarding the maint reduction comp taking the place of the life support. You aren't by any means the only one to disagree with that. Although I can't for the life of me understand how anyone would disagree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It jsut seems totally natural and obvious to me that a comp that reduces maintenance would have something to do with life support and nothing whatsoever to do with crew quarters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Since I decided to call the comp an engineering comp, it made even more sense since nobody would sleep in engineering. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif IIRC my engineering comp didn't totally replace LS, except in the smaller ship, which would have less of a need for LS, but still need CQ, unless the crew would be sleeping in the halls. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now, to more of an on topic comment. Requireing additional components on the smaller ships? Even though they are small ones, wont that decrease the usefullness of an already small ship? And nine different maint reduction comps? It will certainly work, but personally I think it will make the ship designs a little cluttered. What about instead using a mount based idea similer to Pax's engine idea to limit each maint reducer to a specific hull size. Then each ship only has one new component to worry about.

Geoschmo

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Is the new Version of this mod ready yet, where can I find a copy.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Well, I have the mQNP mounts scripted, and need Dumbluck to send me a private message with his email address so I can send it along.

Dumbluck, d'you also want me to handle the vehicle sizes?

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

"Crew's Mess mount is available from level 3 on up, and grants a 10% reduction for level 3. Level 4 on up gets a 5% reduction."

Note that if you're doing multiple redundant mounts, the mount screen is going to get very messy very quickly. Mounts can't be obseleted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Then again, upgrading the component (which can only be added via the mount) might work..

Phoenix-D

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Hmmmm... That sounds simple enough. I'll try to do some number crunching/modding this weekend. Hell, if I'm real lucky, I might even get a new beta out...

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, yea, but that kinda defeats one of the main ideas of the mod...

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

No, I haven't had much of a chance to work on my changes this week. If I'm really lucky, I'll have time to get one out this weekend, but don't count on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ph-D: Actually, the components weren't necessarily going to be upgrades of each other, or they would become "obsolete". But I was hoping to have one mount per ship size that is applicable to all the relevant components.

Hmmm.... this might get interesting....

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Geo: Since I've followed your example and forsaken the AI, could you send me a copy of the no AI mod files, and a quick note giving the general idea of how to implement them? I've PMed you my email addy....

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

No, I haven't forgotten. my first beta is almost ready... But I doubt that it will include the mQNP. In fact, it won't be that different from what Geo put out. This modding is harder than I thought!

[ November 12, 2002, 15:17: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Ok. The files are ready for my first beta test. If the game doesn't crash, I'll post the beta for you all to take a look at, post comments, etc. For now, here's my To Do list. (Gee, do ya think I like P&N or something?)

o-Add mQNP (ships resized for now)
X-Add no-AI mod files.
X-Add TDM Formations
---Add most P&N mounts.
X-Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts;
X-P&N maintenance settings.
---Small racial armors. (ala P&N)
---P&N armors
---P&N shields
---Various weapons balancing issues.
X-Ground combat down to 3 turns.
X-Space combat down to 20 turns.
---Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (including sats and drones)
---Make new Turret and Heavy Turret mounts for each size of ship.
---Rebalance the tohit%/ecm%
---Add Manuevering thrusters.
X-Rebalanced # of Lifesupport and Crewquarters with shipsize.
X-Adjust ship hull costs to 1.2$/kt.
---9 levels of SY, researched thru ship construction, along with Temporal counterparts.

(X- = completed, o- = partially completed, --- = not started yet.)

Edit: Art of War v0.71 is here. Give it a test drive, kick the tires, then tell me what you think!

[ November 17, 2002, 14:59: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

"Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (including sats and drones"

Umm..why? Units do not take partial damage, organic regeneraiton won't do anything for them!

Phoenix-D

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Good Point, P-D. Silly me!

Edit:
to do list:

x-Add mQNP (ships resized for now)
X-Add no-AI mod files.
X-Add TDM Formations
---Add most P&N mounts.
X-Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts;
X-P&N maintenance settings.
---Small racial armors. (ala P&N)
---P&N armors
---P&N shields
---Various weapons balancing issues.
X-Ground combat down to 3 turns.
X-Space combat down to 20 turns.
X-Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
---Make new Turret and Heavy Turret mounts for each size of ship.
---Rebalance the tohit%/ecm% (increase costs of characteristics, ala P&N)
---Add Manuevering thrusters.
X-Rebalanced # of Lifesupport and Crewquarters with shipsize.
X-Adjust ship hull costs to 1.2$/kt.
X-9 levels of SY, researched thru ship construction, along with Temporal counterparts.
---Balance the Cultural Modifiers.
---Supply usage decreases with engine tech level.

[ November 18, 2002, 14:39: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Heh. Just realized that I never even checked the research costs of the new shipyards... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif No time now tho. Play my PBW turn, then to bed...

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Hey, are you going to include some leaky shields/armor for the first few levels of the appropriate tech?

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

SJ:

It's always about the leaky shields, isn't it?

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Huh? How can they "leak"? WHAT can they "leak"??? You totally lost me on this one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Oh, hey SJ. I guess I really ought to make this official: Do you mind if I use parts of your mod (P&N) in the Art of War? Some are being used as insperation, some as a starting point, and some parts are just being ripped from your mod and stuck into this one...

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Leaky Armor:
Allows some damage from enemy weapons to penetrate, and thus damage the internal components before all armor is destroyed.
Adding more and more armor to a ship will decrease the rate at which internals are destroyed by enemy fire.

Leaky Shields:
Allows some damage from enemy weapons to penetrate, and thus damage armor and/or internals before the shields are completely eliminated.
Depending on implementation, shield absorption rates can be set to 0%,20%,33%,50%,66%,80%. Or set to range between zero and any of the values above as the generators recieve damage.
In some circumstances, especially VS very low damage weapons, the absorption can be higher than the expected value.

DL:
I don't mind if you use parts of my mod, as long as you end up with something reasonably different.

CK:
Yes. Yes it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

SJ:

I think you should post how you get those percentages! Just so everyone can follow along and see what you mean.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

To Do list

+++Maintenance+++
X-P&N maintenance settings.
X-Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts
---Adjust maint. reduction of Crew Areas.
X-Rebalanced # of Lifesupport and Crewquarters with shipsize.
X-Adjust ship hull costs to 1.2$/kt.

+++Miscellaneous+++
X-Add no-AI mod files.
X-Add TDM Formations
---Add most P&N mounts.
---Balance the Cultural Modifiers.
---Add empty Racial Traits slots for future expansion.

+++Damage Allocation+++
---Small racial armors. (ala P&N)
X-Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
---Base shields and armor on P&N style.
---Various weapons balancing issues.

+++Ground Combat+++
X-Ground combat down to 3 turns.
---Make planet glassing with normal weapons next to impossible.

+++Space Combat+++
---Change space combat to 50 turns.
---Rebalance the tohit%/ecm% (increase costs of characteristics, ala P&N)
---Add Manuevering thrusters.

+++"Weapons or Butter"+++
X-9 levels of SY, researched thru ship construction, along with Temporal counterparts.

+++Engines+++
---Smaller vessels can mount more engines than larger ones (ala dreadnaught and baseship).
---Supply usage decreases with engine tech level ala P&N
---Reduce Capital Ship movement combat movement rates by 1/2. (missles, fighters, and drones(?) remain normal). Strategic movement rates remain normal.

Note: mQNP is out, for the time being. One of the reasons is that I've got too many other things I want to experiment with (heck, I'm still coming up with ideas!). Another is that it might restrict the number of players interested in the mod. Once I get most of the basics worked out, I'll add it in (or perhaps make 2 Versions of the mod, on with mQNP, and one without). Of coarse, if there is a large public outcry, I could probably be persuaded to put it back on the to do list... ;P

================================

So, has anyone taken a look at v0.71? Any thoughts? Version 0.8 is pretty much done, I just need to bugtest it first.

Edit:

v0.80
-Added 9 levels of Space Yard(facility) and SY(component), researched thru Ship Construction and Space Yards(tech), along with Temporal counterparts.
-Added Armor Regeneration ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
-Cosmetic bug fix on abilities displays for hull sizes.

v0.71
-Ship Sizes changed in preparation for mQNP addition.
-NoAI mod files added.
-TDM Modpack formations.txt file added.
-Added Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts.
-Added P&Nv3.1b Maintenance settings.
-Ground combat changed to 3 turns.
-Space combat changed to 20 turns.
-Adjusted ship hull costs to $1.2/kt.
-Rebalanced the number of Crew Quarters and Lifesupport with vessel size.

Second Edit: Here it is. didn't have time to test it though, let me know if it crashes!
AofWv0_80.zip

[ November 20, 2002, 12:45: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Hmm. The armor I can understand; just take away the "armor" ability.
But how do you do that with shields??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Edit: And to answer your question, I don't plan on using leaky armor or shields at this time. It might be neat for later (much later, at this rate), but I've got other things I want to put in first.

[ November 21, 2002, 12:34: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can anyone point me to some threads/mods that demonstrate how this is done? I vaguely recall that it involved increasing the damage to kill 1m population and increasing the damage of planetary weapons. But I'm looking for specific explanations/examples to study.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here is one. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=001062#000014

Basically though you have the idea with your comment above. Raise the damage to kill one pop to a very high level. High enough that standard ship to ship weapons have little or no effect. That change alone will make glassing planets almost impossible. Since planetary shields, weapons plats and other untis on the planet are damaged before any damage is applied to population, they will still be susceptable to orbital bombardment as normal. Then if you want players to have an option to glass the planet with specialized weapons, you raise the damage levels of the neutron bomb accordingly, or create some other weapon with the population only damage type. I do not suggest rasing the damage of other planetary wepons like the Napalm, cause that would make them extremely powerful against the weapons platforms. That's not what you want I think. You want the ship V Waepons platform combat about the same, but make it more difficult to glass the population once the planetary defenses are gone. Corrrect?

Geoschmo

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

The leaky shields are achieved with the crystalline ability.
Given a large amount of crystalline ability points, shots impacting the ship will have on average 50% of their damage absorbed.
0% = shield skipping OR armor skipping damage
20% = Quad to shields damage
33% = Double to shields damage
50% = Normal
66% = Half to shields
80% = Quarter to shields.

In some cases, such as vs very low damage weapons, the absorption percent can be higher that that.

If you make the shield generators "armor", or have leaky armor, you can have the absorption percentage fall as the shields take damage, and the crystalline ability value becomes important.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

A few questions from my to do list (Man, it just keeps getting longer and longer...)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can anyone point me to some threads/mods that demonstrate how this is done? I vaguely recall that it involved increasing the damage to kill 1m population and increasing the damage of planetary weapons. But I'm looking for specific explanations/examples to study.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I remember that someone did this, once upon a time. Would that person mind if I incorperate their work? Oh, and I'd need a pointer to that mod...

edit: One Last question: Anyone care to share their impressions of v0.80?

To Do list:

playtest v.80 !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

+++Maintenance+++
X-P&N maintenance settings.
X-Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts;
---Adjust maint. reduction of Crew Areas.
X-Rebalanced # of Lifesupport and Crewquarters with shipsize.
X-Adjust ship hull costs to 1.2$/kt.

+++Miscellaneous+++
X-Add no-AI mod files.
X-Add TDM Formations
---Add some P&N mounts.
---Balance the Cultural Modifiers.
---Add empty Racial Traits slots for future expansion.

+++Damage Allocation+++
---Small racial armors.
X-Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
---Base shields and armor on P&N style.
---Various weapons balancing issues.

+++Ground Combat+++
X-Ground combat down to 3 turns.
---Make planet glassing with normal weapons next to impossible.

+++Space Combat+++
---Change space combat to 50 turns.
---Rebalance the tohit%/ecm% (increase costs of characteristics, ala P&N)
---Add Manuevering thrusters.
---Ship/Fleet Training components ala P&N

+++"Weapons or Butter"+++
X-9 levels of SY, researched thru ship construction, along with Temporal counterparts.
---extend resource extractors down to 10 levels (9 researchable)
---Adjust Research Center and Intel Center points generation.
---Adjust Citizen Database and CCC bonus %s.
---change monolith research to be dependant on resource extraction research. (ala P&N)
---Adjust Robotoid Factory bonus %s.

+++Engines+++
---Smaller vessels can mount more engines than larger ones (ala dreadnaught and baseship).
---Supply usage decreases with engine tech level ala P&N, Exodus
---Reduce Capital Ship combat movement rates by 1/2. (missles, fighters, and drones(?) remain normal). Strategic movement rates remain normal.
---Extend tech tree (ala Exodus mod)

Note: mQNP is out, for the time being. One of the reasons is that I've got too many other things I want to experiment with (heck, I'm still coming up with ideas!). Another is that it might restrict the number of players interested in the mod. Once I get most of the basics worked out, I'll add it in (or perhaps make 2 Versions of the mod, on with mQNP, and one without). Of coarse, if there is a large public outcry, I could probably be persuaded to put it back on the to do list... ;P

[ November 22, 2002, 12:47: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Geo: Correct. Thanx.

SJ: Ummm... so what do you put the CA ability ON? The hull itself? Armor? Shield generators (that would have to have the armor tag as well, right?)? All of the above?

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

SJ never really explains how he comes up with those darn numbers.

Dumbluck:

You would give the ability to only the shield generators for leaky shields.

Leaky armor is created by getting rid of the armor's damaged first ability and reducing regular components structure size. That way, the armor is still most likely hit first, but not always.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Kwok: That sounds like a lot of work! It will most likely go at the bottom of the priority list, if it even makes it on to the list at all!

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

The components by default have pretty good hitpoint values for a leaky armor mod.

All you really have to do is alter the armor.
Make armor 1 be 1kt, 20 hitpoints, armor 2 be 3kt 50 hitpoints, and armor 3 be 7kt 100 hitpoints.
And of course, remove the armor ability.

That'll give you a pretty good start. If you do the division, you will see that the higher level armors have fewer hitpoints, but during combat they will leak less often, and overall will be better.

For shields, try dividing their output by 10, their size by 4, and adding a crystalline ability with the same amount as their new shield generation amount. 20-30 physical hitpoints would be good for the leaky armor effect.

As for getting the % numbers, 50% = 1 shot hits the shields, 1 shot hits the armor, boosting shields back to their original strength. Overall every other shot hits, averaging 50%.
If the weapon does quarter to shields, you need to hit it 4 times to drop the shields that you created when you hit the hull. Five shots per cycle, 4 of which are blocked by the shields. 4/5 = 80%

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Dormant, but not forgotten.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

So, how is the Mod coming? Gatta know!

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Doesn't that say it all? I've been too busy to touch it lately... And I'm actually (tentatively) planning on scaling back some of my planned changes, to keep with the intentions of the mod. Maybe someday I'll use this mod as the genesis for a mod that is distinctly my own, and add all those big ideas to it. Of coarse, by then SE5 will probably be out... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Guess so. I was just asking so if there was anything new I could report it. You know where.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

dumbluck, lots of really great things there! From now on I will keep very close tabs on your progress. Shoot if I post about what a great mod this is going to be. Maybe some outside stimulus will arrive! Nothing like that, for inspiration! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Like you actually need any.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Sure, here's my latest history file and to-do lists. I've been working on the "Weapons or Butter" decision balancing lately.

History:
to do: v0.81
X-Reduced the Robotoid Factory bonuss by 1/2.
X-Move individual resourse bonus facilities to their own trees.
X-Balanced facility costs for individual Resource bonus facilities (mineral scanner, etc.)
---Balance Robotoid Factory facility costs.
---Balance facilty costs for Resource Extractors.
X-adjust Crew Areas maint. reduction.
---extend resource extractors down to 10 levels (9 researchable)
---change monolith research to be dependant on resource extraction research. (ala P & N)
---Adjust Research Center and Intel Center points generation.
---Adjust Citizen Database and CCC bonus %s.

v0.80
-Added 9 levels of Space Yard(facility) and SY(component), researched thru Ship Construction and Space Yards(tech), along with Temporal counterparts.
-Added Armor Regeneration ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
-Cosmetic bug fix on abilities displays for hull sizes.

v0.71
-Ship Sizes changed in preparation for mQNP addition.
-NoAI mod files added.
-TDM Modpack formations.txt file added.
-Added Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts.
-Added P&Nv3.1b Maintenance settings.
-Adjusted ship hull costs to $1.2/kt.
-Rebalanced the number of Crew Quarters and Lifesupport with vessel size.

To Do list:
--Cut out some of the more extreme changes. Stick to the basics for this mod---
-- playtest v.81 ---

+++Maintenance+++
X-P&N maintenance settings.
X-Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts;
X-Adjust maint. reduction of Crew Areas to 8%.
X-Rebalanced # of Lifesupport and Crewquarters with shipsize.
---Adjust ship hull costs to 2.0$/kt.

+++Miscellaneous+++
X-Add no-AI mod files.
X-Add TDM Formations
---Add some P&N mounts.
---Balance the Cultural Modifiers.

+++Damage Allocation+++
---Small racial armors.
X-Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
---Various weapons balancing issues.

+++Ground Combat+++
---Ground combat down to 3 turns.
---Increase "damage to kill 1m population" setting.
---Increase damage rating of the Neutron Bomb.

+++Space Combat+++
---Change space combat to 20 turns.
---Rebalance the tohit%/ecm% (increase costs of characteristics, ala P & N)
---Add Manuevering thrusters.
---Ship/Fleet Training components (NOT facilities)ala P&N
--- ??? Change tohit size bonuses to 12% per 100kt.
---Correct tohit% size bonuses on non-standard hull sizes.

+++"Weapons or Butter"+++
X-9 levels of SY, researched thru ship construction, along with Temporal counterparts.
X-extend resource extractors down to 10 levels (9 researchable)
---Adjust Research Center and Intel Center points generation.
---Adjust Citizen Database and CCC bonus %s.
---change monolith research to be dependant on resource extraction research. (ala P&N)
X-Reduce Robotoid Factory bonuses by 1/2.
X-Move individual resourse bonus facilities to their own trees.
X-Balanced facility costs for individual Resource bonus facilities (mineral scanner, etc.)
---Balance facilty costs for Resource Extractors.
---Balance Robotoid Factory facility costs.

+++Engines+++
---Supply usage decreases with engine tech level ala P&N, Exodus
---Double combat movement rates for fighters, missles.
-??Smaller vessels can mount more engines than
larger ones (ala dreadnaught and
baseship).
OR
Add combat movement bonuses to smaller
hulls
OR
Make size-specific mounts for
manuevering thrusters; they add the
combat movement bonus.
---Extend tech tree (ala Exodus mod)

Note: mQNP is out, for the time being. One of the reasons is that I've got too many other things I want to experiment with (heck, I'm still coming up with ideas!). Another is that it might restrict the number of players interested in the mod. Once I get most of the basics worked out, I'll add it in (or perhaps make 2 Versions of the mod, on with mQNP, and one without). Of coarse, if there is a large public outcry, I could probably be persuaded to put it back on the to do list... ;P

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Is anyone besides mumbles following this? I could use some feedback on my "Weapons or Butter" modding (ie I think I might have been a bit too ... enthusiastic with some of the changes). I've got most of it planned out, I just need to go in and actually make the changes.

edit: One other question. Do you think I should include mQNP?

[ December 17, 2002, 10:57: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I tend to play more with the original movement system, but find the mount based mQNP to be intersting.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

That's it? ONE vote? I'm disappointed.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

I vote for mQNP, too.

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, come on. mQNP is my BABY. Did I even realy have to give VOICE to my vote ... ?

Well, just in case, it's YES. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Ok. Due to popular demand (relatively speaking), mQNP is back in. I was going to upload the newest Version (0.81) but after some playtesting I decided that some of the numbers need "jiggled" a little bit...

edit: Of coarse, I'll probably have to re-jiggle them once I get the population modifiers in...

[ December 21, 2002, 12:35: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Yeah, mQNP!

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

Woo hoo!

Re: New Mod: The Art of War Mod
 

A new Version! 0.81 is out, get it here: Aow v0.81.zip

This upgrade consists almost entirely of "guns or butter" decision work. You'll spend a lot more time in the early game researching infrastructure techs now. If you don't think you'll get rushed, that is... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Note: I haven't had much of a chance to playtest the changes to the resource/research/intel bonus facilies yet.

History:
v0.81
-Reduced the Robotoid Factory bonuss by 1/2.
-Move individual resourse bonus facilities to their own trees.
-Balanced facility costs for individual Resource bonus facilities (mineral scanner, etc.)
-Balance facilty costs for Resource Extractors.
-Balance Robotoid Factory facility costs.
-adjust Crew Areas maint. reduction.
-extend resource extractors down to 10 levels
-Balance component costs for Robo Miners.
-Extend RoboMiners down the 10 levels of resource extraction.
-Adjust Resource Extraction research costs.
-x-Re-adjust Resource Extraction research costs. (could still use some fine tuning)
-Expand research and intel facilities to 5 levels.
-Expand research and intel bonus facilities to 5 levels.
-Balance research and intel facility costs
-Balance research and intel bonus facility costs.
-Reduced the intel and research bonuss by 1/3.
-Reduce default build rate to 1000m/o/r per turn.
-Move intel and research bonus facilities each to their own research trees.
-?-Adjust Research and Intel research costs. (More playtesting required)
-Change space combat to 20 turns.
-Ground combat down to 3 turns.
-Add Eyecandy Systemnames, Events, Empire names, etc.

v0.80
-Added 9 levels of Space Yard(facility) and SY(component), researched thru Ship Construction and Space Yards(tech), along with Temporal counterparts.
-Added Armor Regeneration ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
-Cosmetic bug fix on abilities displays for hull sizes.

v0.71
-Ship Sizes changed in preparation for mQNP addition.
-NoAI mod files added.
-TDM Modpack formations.txt file added.
-Added Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts.
-Added P&Nv3.1b Maintenance settings.
-Adjusted ship hull costs to $1.2/kt.
-Rebalanced the number of Crew Quarters and Lifesupport with vessel size.

To Do list:
+++Maintenance+++
X-P&N maintenance settings.
X-Maint reducing components & ship specific mounts;
X-Adjust maint. reduction of Crew Areas.
X-Rebalanced # of Lifesupport and Crewquarters with shipsize.
---Adjust ship hull costs to 2.0$/kt.
---Add Base only crew areas, researched with base construction tech. (extra's like minor repair ability, etc.)
---Adjust Crew areas mounts so that instead of a fixed tonnage structure, CrA now take up x% of total hull tonnage structure.

+++Miscellaneous+++
X-Add no-AI mod files.
X-Add TDM Formations
---Add some P&N mounts.
---Balance the Cultural Modifiers.
X-Add Eyecandy Systemnames, Events, Empire names, etc.

+++Damage Allocation+++
---Small racial armors.
X-Add OA ability to all hull sizes. (excluding units)
---Various weapons balancing issues.

+++Ground Combat+++
X-Ground combat down to 3 turns.
---Increase "damage to kill 1m population" setting.
---Increase damage rating of the Neutron Bomb.

+++Space Combat+++
X-Change space combat to 20 turns.
---Rebalance the tohit%/ecm% (increase costs of characteristics, ala P&N)
---Add Manuevering thrusters.
---Ship/Fleet Training components (NOT facilities)ala P&N
--- ??? Change tohit size bonuses to 12% per 100kt.
---Correct tohit% size bonuses on non-standard hull sizes.


+++"Weapons or Butter"+++
X-9 levels of SY, researched thru ship construction, along with Temporal counterparts.
X-extend resource extractors down to 10 levels (9 researchable)
---Extend Repair tech down to 5(?) levels
---change monolith research to be dependant on resource extraction research. (ala P&N)
X-Reduce Robotoid Factory bonuses by 1/2.
X-Move individual resourse bonus facilities to their own trees.
X-Balanced facility costs for individual Resource bonus facilities (mineral scanner, etc.)
X-Balance facilty costs for Resource Extractors.
X-Balance component costs for Robo Miners.
X-Extend RoboMiners down the 10 levels of resource extraction.
X-Balance Robotoid Factory facility costs.
---Change population bonuses (ala proportions, P&N PBW
-x-Adjust Resource Extraction research costs.
---Change: increasing facility tech levels equate to increasing construction costs.
X-Reduce research and intel bonus %s by 1/3.
X-Expand research and intel facilities to 5 levels.
X-Expand research and intel bonus facilities to 5 levels.
X-Balance research and intel facility costs
X-Balance research and intel bonus facility costs.
---Reduce default build rate to 1000m/o/r per turn.
X-Move individual intel and research bonus facilities to their own trees.
-?-Adjust Research and Intel research costs.


+++Engines+++
---Supply usage decreases with engine tech level ala P&N, Exodus
---Double combat movement rates for fighters, missles.
-??Smaller vessels can mount more engines than
larger ones (ala dreadnaught and baseship).
OR
Add combat movement bonuses to smaller
hulls
OR
Make size-specific mounts for manuevering
thrusters; they add the combat movement
bonus.
---Extend tech tree (ala Exodus mod)
---Due to popular demand (relatively speaking), mQNP is back in.

[ December 26, 2002, 10:37: Message edited by: dumbluck ]