Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Just a heads up for anyone using this program:

If you open an existing mod that has several differnt components or facilities with the same name (such as P&N) SE4 modder will not view them correctly. ie in P&N only one Research Center I will appear in the treeview and when you click it what will be displayed is the first one in the txt file. I also encountered some problems if I made component that had the same name as a group. (Ie Creating a component called 'Weapons')

Due to the nature of the Treeview control I don't plan on fixing this so if you are using SE4Modder you should use start with a base that has unique component and facility names.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

For modding in general - I think it would be practice if we all avoided using duplicate component/facility names. I believe it can cause some messed up things in game as SJ has mentioned earlier in the P&N 1.78 thread.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

typo:

Hold your mouse over the "modified maintenance cost" value 1 area, and a popup box displays this message (emphasis added): "Percentage of normal maintenance (10%=110% of normal, -10%=90% or normal)

Not that this is a program crashing bug or anything.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Edit: found another one. No matter which mount I edit, then save, it always says: "You have edited < the Last component I had in the edit window>. Do you wish to save?"

[ November 17, 2002, 10:19: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm going to have to blame that one on MM since that line is extracted from abilities.txt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I have noticed a lot of times it asks you 'do you want to save' when it shouldn't although I can save a mount in ver 1.53. ??

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Anyone like to help me with this:

One thing I've added to my new Version is an ability to filter out abilities that do not apply. So when you are viewing a component you will only be able to select abilities that will work on a component. You will be able to toggle this filtering on and off since I know occasionally modders knowingly add abilites that don't work for good reasons. I added this feature by editing the abilites.txt file and adding a "type :=" line with 3 options: Component, Facility, or System. (for Vehicles I assume if if works on a component it works on a vehicle) I was hoping someone with some modding experience could look at the new file and tell me If I've got anything wrong.

AbilitiesNew.txt

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For me, I consider a component or facility obsolete if:

1) If a component or facility will be upgraded by use of the "Upgrade" feature under the ship construction window, or "Upgrade" button under the planet construction window
2) If a component/facility will no longer be displayed when the "Latest" button is actived either under the ship construction window,or the planet construction window.

What I mean is a new feature that would allow you to could enter a certain tech level (perhaps under your current tech tree setup, but with a "Latest" button), and the Modder would display only those components/facilities which would be shown by the SEIV engine as "LATEST" in the construction windows for design ships or facilities.

Only those components/facilites which do not have another component/facility at this particular tech level, or better yet, combination of tech levels , which makes them obsolete would be displayed. It would allow a snap shot of what a race will be upgrading to and utilizing at a particular point (tech level) in the game.

It would be sharp if this could be done; it would easily allow you see if your upgrade plan in a mod was broken or not. Allow you to see if your modded components will surplant the right other components at the right time, and if "this" will really ugrade to "that", when you finally hit the proper tech levels.

CombatSquirrel

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just an easy print out list:
FAMILY #: COMPONENTS IN FAMILY

9007
BaHa Agur Atomizer Compartment
Uniform Repair Room
Captain's Private Theatre

9008
BaHa Agur Weapons Locker
Ships Armory

And something similar for weapons families and facility families.

CombatSquirrel

[ November 17, 2002, 15:40: Message edited by: CombatSquirrel ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Well what can I say I got bored with all the testing so I just decided to post a new Version before I added some of the features I planned. (hoping some brave soles will do some of the testing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) This Version should look pretty much the same although it is radically different internally (due to some bad initial program design)

Some new features area

- Editable Intel projects

- Should be much better for 800 x 600 Users. Part if this is that the treeview is now sizable.

- Fixed the bug mention by PaladinX so you can now create new Groups. (this was a lot harder to fix than I thought it would be)

- Abilities can now be filtered (see post a few down) so you can show only Component abilities when editing a component

- other misc bug fixes that I really should keep track off.

- possibly various undocumented features due to radically different program design. (some people call these bugs)

As always feel free to post or e-mail me any bugs or suggestions

DavidG

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Could you expand the pic scrollers to beyond 900? I downloaded the official pic set, and it has more than 900 components. Maybe you could have it just go to the EOF. Also, could you possibly make a "no picture here" kind of thing for pic numbers that do not contain a pic?

[ November 18, 2002, 00:17: Message edited by: Instar ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

My bad. No text here. EOF

[ November 18, 2002, 00:29: Message edited by: Instar ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just tested this and here's how to get around it:

Double click on the image. This will open up a window of little pics you can pic from. It will also reset the maximum value of the slider bar. The 900 value looks like it was just a default that I neglected to reset untill after you double click the picture.

PS Good idea with the 'no image' thing. Just added it. Will be in next vesion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 18, 2002, 01:13: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

I dont know if I am doing it right but I am occasionally getting some wonky stuff. Ill try to figure out what I am doing wrong

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

I think I got it figured out.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

This is the place.

mlmbd http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, you say this can be toggled on and off, but I don't see how to do it. I know of one mistake. There are probably others. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type := Component
Phased Shield Generation
Value1 = Amount of phased shields generated.
Value2 = </pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This ability can be used for facilities as well as components.

I seem to recall at one point finding out that there were abilities in the game that are not listed anywhere in the abilities file. I can't confirm that at the moment, perhaps someone else can help with that. Maybe cross checking the components and facilities files with the abilities file will turn something up. If there are some then you are going to want to either add them to your modified ability file, or allow manual entry and not just selecting from the drop down list.

Geoschmo

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Under the file menu you will see 'Filter Abilities list" It can be checked on and off there. I'm sure there are a few mistakes in that list scince I really have spent much time modding myself.

The only ability I know of that is not in the Abilities.txt is 'Launch Drones' This item is added to the list. I wrote a little prgram that scanned the abilities mention in components.txt and 'launch drones' was the only one not found also in abilities.txt. I really should check the facility and other files too.

Thanks for looking it over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit: I noticed another one wrong: Component Repair. I also noticed that that the ability gets listed wrong if it is not correct in the new abilities file. ie when clicking Ship Yard facility the 'component repair' ability is not in the list so shows up as 'change bad event chance' even though it is ok in the txt file.

I suggest anyone useing ver 1.6 leave the 'Filter Abilities list' unchecked untill I perfect it a bit more.

[ November 25, 2002, 23:19: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

So I wrote a little program that compared my modified AbilitiesNew.txt file to the components, facilities, vehicles and systemtypes files. The only ability missing was Launch Drones (which my program adds anyway). A couple errors in the file include: Cargo Storage and Component Repair should be Component and Facility items and Stop Open Warp Point and Close Open Warp Point were omited and should be for facilites.

I tested the new file with Stock, P&N and Proportions. Things seemed OK with stock and P&N files with the exeption that SJ uses the Star - Unstable ability to add notes. Proprotions did not fair so well. There seem to be a lot of abilites added to facilities that seem a bit strange to me. (ie like Boarding Attack for a Research Center. There may be a reason for these I dont know about. Anyway here is the updated file

AbilitiesNew.txt

Edit: here is the explaination for the unusual abilites in Proportions: Proportions question re: abilities

[ November 26, 2002, 11:53: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Just checking...do you make allowances for abilities which have more than one use? I.e., the component repair for components and facilities? Or do you need to turn filtering off for that?

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea. I added lines to the txt file that say for example "Type := Component, Facility". Values can be Component, Facility, or System. For vehicles I assumed that if it works on a Component it works on a Vehcile.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

DavidG,
What does the "Use new sounds" actually do? Weapons components spedify a sound file, so by selecting "Use new sounds" is it going to a different directory?

I really like the program, I tend to make all the changes with vi, but the total cumulative cost and the leads to list really help when trying to get an overview or balance things.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup that is it exactly. If you look in the SE4 sounds directory you'll see another folder called 'New' with a similarly named set of wave files. Somewhere in the game there is a setting that lets you use the new sounds. No matter which you use the components.txt file will be the same.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

The new sounds are much better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Each weapon has a distinct sound (including small weapons), and I think they are at a higher sample rate, too. The only bad sound is the plasma torp in my install--I saved something else over it, and now it's the old standard CSM sound. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Not worth a full reinstall.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Dan C. I think I realises now why you wondered what the 'Use New Sounds' option does. Because in Version 1.60 it does nothing. DOH! I think I must have somehow broke this feature in ver 1.60

< Edit > Correction it does nothing if you are viewing the stock files. It works when viewing a mod

[ December 14, 2002, 14:43: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

I just posted something on another thread about the SEModder too. My question is are you going to develop an updated Version, 1.60 has been out for some time and was it ever designed to work with gold? I had to stop using it becouse of the number of crashes and errors it kept having when I was working on my Personal Mod.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

David, would it be possible for you to include a view like in my techviewer (see screenshot/source code below) in your program?

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Yeah! then we could edit techlevels graphically.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it should work with Gold. Actaully I only test it with Gold. I do have a minor upgrade that is almost ready. But I don't think it will solve you problem as I havn't heard anything about a serious problem with crashes and errors. Can you give me some details?

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess anything is possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Looks like a lot of work though. I'll have to give it some thought.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

DavidG, I noticed that the leads-to seems to have a built in limit of 20 items/techs/facilites for each level of a tech. Is there a reason for this restriction?

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a hardcoded limit.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ooops sory forgot to respond to your earlier message. Yea it is hardcoded and no there is no reason for it. ( I don't think SE4 has a limit here) Just seemed reasonable when I fist did it. Since it is obviously too low I've bumped it up to 50 for the next Version. I could probably make it unlimited but that's a lot more work.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Is anybody else having serious problems with error Messages and crashes like Shang? If I get some details I may be able to fix them.

P.S. I know ver 1.6 introduced a bug were if you open a new mod the se4modder screen would go all black. Closing and reopening the program lets you view the mod)

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Bump.

So anybody else having major crashing problems?? I'd really like to fix this if it is common.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Sorry for the critics, but it's very unclear how a certain (new) item is saved. I tried to make a component (weapon) and save it. I wanted it to be saved under the specific weapongroup (Pointdefense), but the program said I could either save it at the end of the file of after a certain weapon family. I didn't fully understand.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't appologize. I love the opportunity to explain my program or fix bugs

The question you are being asked just refers to where in the ".txt" file you want the new item saved.

When you create a new component or facility etc. either by clicking the New button or editing the Name you will be asked were you want to save the new item. The options are to either save it after the Last item you were viewing or add it to the end of the file.

You may wish to save your new component after the Last item you were viewing if you are for example adding to a sequence of items ( IE if you edit Capital Missle V to add a Capatile Missle VI component)

If you are creating a brand new item then you may want to just save it at then end of the file.

P.S. If the above makes no sense please tell me and I will try to clarify. Due to my just having come back from my office x-mas party, with at least a bottle of wine carefully concealed in my stomach I suspect I may not be explaining things too clearly

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Hahaha... LOL!!! Good work with the wine DavidG!
That's ought to teach the wine. Sitting all day long in that cozy bottle mocking everyone from behind it's safe glass barrier. No, he won't do that again.
It's somewhat clearer now. Thanks. I have a few questions more.
1) How can I change the input files (component.txt, facilities.txt, etc...)?
2) I want to start a brand new mod. I want to create EVERYTHING from scratch. So I don't want anything to be copied from the previous mod I used. How do I do that?

The program you wrote is very cool. The graphics are very nice and the incorporation of the soundfiles is even better. Although somewhat slow, that's not very annoying. Yes, it's a true gem. Be proud DavidG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Edited for typos.

[ December 22, 2002, 10:45: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Haha... no not everything. I just want to add a few weapons and buildings to the B5Mod. But I don't want them incorporated in the mod yet. They have to be approved by Val. So, I want to makeonly those weapons, but nothing else.
Wow, Version .61, I'm waiting. Thanks for the swift answer.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Version 1.61 now posted.

This a a fairly minor update. Features/fixes as follows:

- Ability to make printouts (see Combat Squirrel suggestion below.
- Finally did the reorder components and facilities bit.
- Added some info to the Weapons damage page as per suggestin from Pablo. I'll let hime explains as I'm not really sure what you'd use this info for: " Add "value at range" boxes below each weapon's "damage at range" boxes (value = Damage/(reload*Weight)). And you can also add "Alpha Strike at range" (AS= Damage/Weight). This is A MUST for weapon balancing."
- Made some fixes so Treeview better reflects the families in the data files (ie Families like armour and multiplex traking and the unusual ones in Poportions will now be grouped together)

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EVERYTHING??! Do you realy meant that? Even like SystemTypes? I'll Assume maybe you want to start with a bland. Components, Facilities, TechArea and Vehicle file. Do do this I'd suggest you use the "Ceate New Mod" option and then edit the files in a txt editor (ie pick them from the 'Source Files' menu And then delete everything in beteen the *BEGIN* and *END* ie It will look like this:

================
*BEGIN*
================

================
*END*
================

To refresh the Treeview click your mod name from the file menu. And now for the MOST IMPORTANT PART: Use Version 1.61 of the program which I plan on posting latter today. (1.60 craps out with a total empty file)

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

I put it through it's paces, and it is beautifull! It works like a charm.
DavidG, thanks for the help on the other questions. I figured them out.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Very sweet, the program has come a long way since the first edition!

The damage ratio is useful because it tells you how many damage points the weapon will punch out each turn per kT of space it takes up on your ship. (the calculation takes the reload time into consideration so the damage/kT is reported as if the weapon fires every turn)

The Alpha (First) strike value is useful because it tells you the ratio of damage done by the weapon on the first round of combat*. This is cool, because some weapons have a long reload time.. so their damage ratio as calculated above might suck. HOWEVER if the first strike value is really high, you can cripple your opponent on the first volly, and then the second, third and even fourth rounds cease to be a concern 'cause the other guy is either dead or close to it!

These two values are very important (IMHO) for making sure the weapons are balanced.

EDIT: Just one thing that I noticed when using the modder. When more than 4 abilities are attached to a component or facility, there is no scroll bar to allow you to look at the additional abilities. This is of course most important when lookin and editing things like the B5 mod, where some facilities have 7+ abilities.

EDIT #2: Is it now possible to define what ship type will be found in a specific location within a fleet formation?!!?

Edit #3: Oh, and I think that the program reports the ability 'star unstable' as armor. Would it be possible to change this, as many mods use this non-sense place holder for descriptions, etc.

* well it's not just the first round of combat, but every round that the weapon fires. I just said first round for the sake of simplicity.

[ December 24, 2002, 20:06: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

The Formations editor won't add a ship 99 or 100.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Man, I really ought to get around to switching to the new Version....

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Think is caused by having the 'Filter Abilities List" under the file menu checked on. This was designed to make it easier for rookies to tell what abilities worked with components, facilities. etc. However if you open a mod that has a non standard ability like you mentioned it will show it wrong. To fix unclick the option and then select your mod from the file menu (this will force the abilites list to be refilled)

As far as the scroll bar for abilites there is one! Can you tell me what mod you were view or what you did that caused it to not appear?

[ December 25, 2002, 21:58: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As far as I know it has always been possible at least in gold. (except in gold all the postions are like "Position 1 Type:= Any) I know the TDM mod formations use them although I haven't tested it extensively enough to know how well it works in game.

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gees who knew someone would actaully want a 99 ship formation! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

DavidG, <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You know Fyron! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gees who knew someone would actaully want a 99 ship formation! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know someone that would! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I can add the 99 and 100 ships to the formations file manually, and the editor will then be able to read and use them. But, it just won't add anything after 98 in the editor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

David:

Okay, thanks for the help on the 'Abilities Filter Setting'. That's all better now.

As to the scroll bar, I'm an idiot! My screen is only 15" and I didn't scroll over far enough to see it! Sorry for any wasted time that you may have spent wondering about that...

Re: SE4 Modder Ver 1.76 (updated for ver 1.91)
 

Hmm. I got that damn sound thingy again. It was run-time error 11 "division by zero". I still can't imagine how that happens. I mean, I know how it happens, but... never mind. Is there some way to turn sounds off completely?

If it helps, I hit the error on the small anti-proton beam I.