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-   -   Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=8357)

Ed Kolis May 9th, 2003 03:05 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Say, how about if Magic races got Kobold Warheads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron May 9th, 2003 07:38 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
You really like those Kobold warheads, don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ed Kolis May 9th, 2003 11:30 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Too bad you can't create warheads with boarding party or crew conVersion type damage... or can you? Just imagine an explosive warhead which propels hundreds of rabid half-starved Kobolds into an enemy ship, ready to tear apart the enemy crew and take charge of the ship!

god and I've never even played Dungeon Keeper and I come up with these evil schemes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Lord Kodos May 10th, 2003 12:00 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Dungeon Keeper...I love that game, still have it both part one and two. They where working on a part III but when Peter left Bullfrog to make Lionhead I think the project was abandoned...

Fyron May 10th, 2003 12:41 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Version 0.11.00 of Adamant Mod has been released.

1. Added - Chameleon Armor and Active Chameleon Armor, which are the Organic equivalents of Stealth Armor and Stealth Shields.
2. Fixed - Tech reqs of Stealth Armor and Stealth Shielding.
3. Added - Darklight Armor and Illusiary Armor, which are Magic equivalents of Stealth Armor and Stealth Shields.
4. Changed - Mines no longer have built in cloaking abilities.
5. Added - Cloaking devices for mines.
6. Fixed - Family numbers of mine warheads used to all be 2026, which caused them all to be obselete.
7. Added - Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles, which are essentially tiny drones with no strategic movement.
8. Added - Computer cores for organic and magic satellites.
9. Fixed - Tech reqs of several Magical engine and armor types.
10. Fixed - Set start level of Gauss Gun Engineering back to 0.
11. Added - Taera, Puntherraian, and Zanar'ri races to the mod.
12. Added - Drone engine mount that makes engines cost 50% less.
13. Added - Reinforced weapon mounts for ships that give weapons 50% more hitpoints.
14. Changed - Reorganized TechArea.txt
15. Added - Organic long range scanners.

[ May 10, 2003, 08:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron May 10th, 2003 06:55 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Sneak peak at what's coming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Version 0.11.01:
1. Changed - Physical ships now increase by 70 kT per level, get -5% to defense and have 12% maintenance penalties. Magic ships increase by 50 kT per level and have minor speed bonuses. Organic ships increase by 40 kT per level, get +5% to defense and have 8% maintenance bonus.
2. Changed - Ships from Crusier size and larger get increasing 4% maintenance penalties per level.
3. Changed - Increased size of Physical bases.
4. Changed - Colony ships are now 3300 kT, and Colony Modules are now 3000 kT.
5. Changed - Physical LS and CQ are now 15 kT. Organic LS and CQ are 8 kT. Command and control comps take a base of about 22.5% space on Physical ships, 20% space on Magic ships and 19% space on Organic ships (based off of Corvette class ships).
6. Changed - Ship Construction now has a base research cost of 14000, compared to 10000 for Organic Ship Growth. Spelljammer Construction now has a base research cost of 11000.
7. Changed - Renamed some Magic ships.

[ May 10, 2003, 06:49: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron May 10th, 2003 09:29 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Version 0.11.01 of Adamant Mod has been released.

1. Changed - Physical ships now increase by 70 kT per level, get -5% to defense and have 12% maintenance penalties. Magic ships increase by 50 kT per level and have minor speed bonuses. Organic ships increase by 40 kT per level, get +5% to defense and have 8% maintenance bonus.
2. Changed - Ships from Crusier size and larger get increasing 4% maintenance penalties per level.
3. Changed - Increased size of Physical bases.
4. Changed - Colony ships are now 3300 kT, and Colony Modules are now 3000 kT.
5. Changed - Physical LS and CQ are now 15 kT. Organic LS and CQ are 8 kT. Command and control comps take a base of about 22.5% space on Physical ships, 20% space on Magic ships and 19% space on Organic ships (based off of Corvette class ships).
6. Changed - Ship Construction now has a base research cost of 14000, compared to 10000 for Organic Ship Growth. Spelljammer Construction now has a base research cost of 11000.
7. Changed - Renamed some Magic ships.
8. Fixed - AI research files no longer generate errors about colony techs and such.
9. Fixed - All AIs will now have a racial colony type trait.

Fyron May 10th, 2003 10:41 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
The change to ship sizes is a massive change, and feedback on it is necessary. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron May 11th, 2003 12:38 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
A new page detailing the Magic view on the nature of the universe has been uploaded to the Adamant mod web site (in the Outline section).

StarBaseSweeper May 13th, 2003 08:20 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Imperator Fyron, I check your website and your mod, but I am not sure to understand the following:
- You describe the leaky shiel as "taking half of the damage, instead of all or 0". But to my understanding your shield still take 100% of the damage, until depleted. What am I misunderstanding?
EDIT: I describe more in "emissive shield" thread.
- About leaky armor, are you sure that the small armor has a lower chance to be hit? I agree that each individual small armor has a smaller chance to be hit than a bigger one, but if you put 10 small armor (size=1kt) there is the same change than an armor will be hit as if you put 1 big armor (size=10kt), isn't it? The only difference is the total cost and the total structure, and the easiness to repair (the smaller number the better). From what you say it seems to be better to have many small armor for higher structure.

Sorry if I just misunderstand things.

Also about colonization tech, why don't you use restricted trait for ICe/Rock/Gaz colonixation, the same way you use it for race type?

Hope it helps.

[ May 13, 2003, 07:29: Message edited by: StarBaseSweeper ]

Fyron May 13th, 2003 08:30 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
- You describe the leaky shiel as "taking half of the damage, instead of all or 0". But to my understanding your shield still take 100% of the damage, until depleted. What am I misunderstanding?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The difference is that standard shields absorb all damage until they are depleted, and then no longer provide protection. Leaky shields continually provide protection because some points are added to the shields every time the ship is damaged (as the shields use the Crystalline Armor ability).

Quote:
- About leaky armor, are you sure that the small armor has a lower chance to be hit? I agree that each individual small armor has a smaller chance to be hit than a bigger one, but if you put 10 small armor (size=1kt) there is the same change than an armor will be hit as if you put 1 big armor (size=10kt), isn't it? The only difference is the total cost and the total structure, and the easiness to repair (the smaller number the better). From what you say it seems to be better to have many small armor for higher structure.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which component is hit is based off of the hit points of the component, not its size. Heavy armors are likely to be hit first becuase they have a huge number of hit poitns. Using just light armor, there is a much greater chance that internals will be hit because each light armor component has fewer hit points, and so is less likely to be selected to be hit.

Quote:
Also about colonization tech, why don't you use restricted trait for ICe/Rock/Gaz colonixation, the same way you use it for race type?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I copied the colony traits from EKolis' Colony Tech Mod, which did not use them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

StarBaseSweeper May 13th, 2003 10:00 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">- You describe the leaky shiel as "taking half of the damage, instead of all or 0". But to my understanding your shield still take 100% of the damage, until depleted. What am I misunderstanding?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The difference is that standard shields absorb all damage until they are depleted, and then no longer provide protection. Leaky shields continually provide protection because some points are added to the shields every time the ship is damaged (as the shields use the Crystalline Armor ability).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I understand now, thank you for the explanation. I was surprise to know any damaged component would create shield when hit.
Quote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">- About leaky armor, are you sure that the small armor has a lower chance to be hit? I agree that each individual small armor has a smaller chance to be hit than a bigger one, but if you put 10 small armor (size=1kt) there is the same change than an armor will be hit as if you put 1 big armor (size=10kt), isn't it? The only difference is the total cost and the total structure, and the easiness to repair (the smaller number the better). From what you say it seems to be better to have many small armor for higher structure.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which component is hit is based off of the hit points of the component, not its size. Heavy armors are likely to be hit first becuase they have a huge number of hit poitns. Using just light armor, there is a much greater chance that internals will be hit because each light armor component has fewer hit points, and so is less likely to be selected to be hit.).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Still, then the probability for teh armor to be hit depends on the ratio struture/size.
Small armor: size,struct = 1kt,2kt
Big armor: size,struct = 10kt,7kt

Then for a size of 10kt you can have:
10 small => struct of armor=10*2=20
1 big => struct of armor=1*7=7
So the small armore have 3 time more chances to be hit that if using big armor.

Am I still wrong?

Quote:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Also about colonization tech, why don't you use restricted trait for ICe/Rock/Gaz colonixation, the same way you use it for race type?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I copied the colony traits from EKolis' Colony Tech Mod, which did not use them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron May 13th, 2003 10:09 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Still, then the probability for teh armor to be hit depends on the ratio struture/size.
Small armor: size,struct = 1kt,2kt
Big armor: size,struct = 10kt,7kt

Then for a size of 10kt you can have:
10 small => struct of armor=10*2=20
1 big => struct of armor=1*7=7
So the small armore have 3 time more chances to be hit that if using big armor.

Am I still wrong?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your numbers are wrong. Actually, those armors would almost never be hit before other components because they have fewer hit points than nearly all non-armor components (as most have 10 or more hit points). You'll have to get the actual calculations from SJ though, as he is the one that came up with the leaky armor system. All I know is that it works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Go try it out in the combat simulator.

[ May 13, 2003, 09:11: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

StarBaseSweeper May 13th, 2003 10:37 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Your numbers are wrong. Actually, those armors would almost never be hit before other components because they have fewer hit points than nearly all non-armor components (as most have 10 or more hit points). You'll have to get the actual calculations from SJ though, as he is the one that came up with the leaky armor system. All I know is that it works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Go try it out in the combat simulator.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, I guess depends on umbers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
If it works...I just gonna try it then

Wonder if SJ has time to answer newbees http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron May 13th, 2003 10:41 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
You won't find a guy more willing to spend his time answering newbies than SJ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It is possible that I do not have the numbers exactly right to create the optimal effect I was planning on, but it is certainly close.

StarBaseSweeper May 13th, 2003 11:17 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I remember reading SJ first Posts about P&N, full of ideas.

When I see what it became... quite impressive.

I was wondering, would, by any magic, the emissive ability have the same property as Create damage from shield, meaning that if an internal component would have emissive value, then the whole ship would have?

Krsqk May 13th, 2003 03:40 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Components with Armor ability: Smallest structure values tend to be hit first.
Components without Armor ability (leaky armor): Larger structure values tend to be hit first.

These don't seem to be influenced too much by numbers of components. In P&N, for instance, a space yard (~200 structure) will still most often be hit first, even if the ship has 10 Buckytube Gel comps (~30 structure).

Suicide Junkie May 13th, 2003 04:59 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I don't have exact statistics available, but when you compare a small number of large-hitpoint components and a large number of small-hitpoint components, with the same total hitpoints, the larger-hitpoint components get hit more often than randomly by component, and even more often than the 50% by hitpoints.

The example I used for testing was the B5 light, medium and heavy "Inert Armor".
I don't recall exactly what they were, but take it as:
10 hp/1 kt for light armor
50 hp/10 kt for heavy armor

I designed identical ships, except for armor...
6 guns, and 6 engines from standard SE4, minimum requirements for equipment.
The light armor ship ended up with 6K hitpoints, while the Heavy armor ship ended up with 4K hitpoints.

Guess who wins? 60-70% of the time, it was the heavy armor ship. Even though it had fewer armor components and only 2/3rds the number of hitpoints, it usually won the battles.

Tactical combat, and watching each hit showed that the heavy ship would win because its heavier armor got hit more often, and less damage leaked through to destroy weapons.
The light armored ship would lose firepower, and become unable to fight back.

On the occasions of the light armor ship winning, the heavy ship would suffer bad luck on its own shots; failing to damage enough weapons on the light ship. Trading blow for blow, the 4k heavy armor hitpoints simply ran out first.

Fyron May 13th, 2003 06:45 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
The abilities that various armor types have are not directly tied to the armor ability. Emissive ability works on all armor components when it is on a component that has armor, and it works on all components when it is on a component without the armor ability (just like shields from damage).

tesco samoa May 13th, 2003 06:59 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Fryon.... can you mod restrictions or are they hardcoded ?????

Fyron May 13th, 2003 07:02 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
No you can't mod the restrictions (assuming I understood you correctly).

Suicide Junkie May 13th, 2003 07:06 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Some restrictions, such as the "one spaceyard per vehicle" are hardcoded.

On individual components, you are free to change the restrictions.
The ones I know are available now:
- None
- One Per Vehicle
- Two Per Vehicle
...
- Ten Per Vehicle

Fyron May 13th, 2003 07:19 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I think he meant, "can you mod what the restrictions are?", which you can't do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron May 13th, 2003 08:06 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I'm thinking of getting rid of the tech grid idea and going with open-ended tech levels instead. Projectile Weapons alone has 21 tech areas and 10 x 10 x 10 components (well, actually, more like 5 times that amount)! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I could then easily add a few areas like "miniaturization" and "ship hardening" or whatever, and not worry about conflicts. And, less math involved! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thoughts/opinions?

Phoenix-D May 13th, 2003 11:30 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
As long as you don't go insane with them, tech grids are fine.

Missiles might work well with that- one tech area for the launcher/projectile, another for the warhead.

Fyron May 14th, 2003 06:14 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Yes, well, not going insane with things isn't gonna happen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

StarBaseSweeper May 14th, 2003 08:28 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The abilities that various armor types have are not directly tied to the armor ability. Emissive ability works on all armor components when it is on a component that has armor, and it works on all components when it is on a component without the armor ability (just like shields from damage).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Incredible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
very interesting, I was thinking wrong all along.

Would that happen also for Regenerate Armor?
Like if Regenerate armor put on armor component, regenerate all armor component with regenerate armor ability (even if 0), and if put on a non-armor component, regenerate all component with regenerate armor ability (evebn non armor) ?

Fyron May 14th, 2003 08:31 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Regeneration doesn't care whether it is armor or not. I think a comp might need a regen ability of one to be able to regenerate though, but I am not sure. You could always test it in a jiffy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

StarBaseSweeper May 14th, 2003 12:44 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Thanks for all your clarification, I'm gonna heavy test now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

But I got many new concept.

Maybe I can go something original/different that make everything worth it.

Fyron May 14th, 2003 09:00 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Sneak peak to wet your appetites:

Version 0.11.03 - :
1. Added - Fate Talismans, which are 50 kT components that give +5-20 ECM bonus and require Fate Ethos 3-6.
2. Added - Organic and Magic SDDs.
3. Added - Pandoran, 8472, NuWam races to the mod.
4. Changed - Attempted to make AIs be able to design and use Colony Ships.
5. Added - Space monsters, from Devnull Mod, with Rollo's permission.
6. Added - Endemic Wastefulness, Naturalists, Unlucky, Trans-dimensional racial traits.
7. Added - Basic Bridges, Basic Life Support. Added Spartan and Luxurious Crew Quarters.

Fyron May 14th, 2003 09:43 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
8. Added - Mecenary Contracts technology for use with mercenary ships. Used a recolored Version of Terran ship set found on PBW as a temporary mercenary set.

Fyron May 15th, 2003 06:14 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Ok, it's out!

Version 0.11.03:
1. Added - Fate Talismans, which are 50 kT components that give +5-20 ECM bonus and require Fate Ethos 3-6.
2. Added - Organic and Magic SDDs.
3. Added - Pandoran, 8472, NuWam races to the mod.
4. Changed - Attempted to make AIs be able to design and use Colony Ships.
5. Added - Space monsters, from Devnull Mod, with Rollo's permission.
6. Added - Endemic Wastefulness, Naturalists, Unlucky, Trans-dimensional racial traits.
7. Added - Basic Bridges, Basic Life Support. Added Spartan and Luxurious Crew Quarters.
8. Added - Mecenary Contracts technology for use with mercenary ships. Used a recolored Version of Terran ship set found on PBW as a temporary mercenary set.
9. Added - Stoic Race racial trait, which allows crews to live in Spartan Crew Quarters without any combat penalties.
10. Added - Dozens of Expansion Slots to Racialtraits.txt for ease of empire file updating in the future.
11. Added - Neo-Expansion pack.

StarBaseSweeper May 15th, 2003 06:48 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I don't have exact statistics available, but when you compare a small number of large-hitpoint components and a large number of small-hitpoint components, with the same total hitpoints, the larger-hitpoint components get hit more often than randomly by component, and even more often than the 50% by hitpoints.

The example I used for testing was the B5 light, medium and heavy "Inert Armor".
I don't recall exactly what they were, but take it as:
10 hp/1 kt for light armor
50 hp/10 kt for heavy armor

I designed identical ships, except for armor...
6 guns, and 6 engines from standard SE4, minimum requirements for equipment.
The light armor ship ended up with 6K hitpoints, while the Heavy armor ship ended up with 4K hitpoints.

Guess who wins? 60-70% of the time, it was the heavy armor ship. Even though it had fewer armor components and only 2/3rds the number of hitpoints, it usually won the battles.

Tactical combat, and watching each hit showed that the heavy ship would win because its heavier armor got hit more often, and less damage leaked through to destroy weapons.
The light armored ship would lose firepower, and become unable to fight back.

On the occasions of the light armor ship winning, the heavy ship would suffer bad luck on its own shots; failing to damage enough weapons on the light ship. Trading blow for blow, the 4k heavy armor hitpoints simply ran out first.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe I got it.
Do you think it could be for the following reason.
2 ships:
Ship A: 150kt total struct, including 10*5kt "armor" (not defined as armor, just as decoy).
Ship B: 150kt total struct, including 1*50kt "armor" (decoy as well, no armor ability).

On the first hit, let's say 5Kt damage, we have for each ship:
Ship A: each "armor" has 5/150 chance to be hit. As there is 10 such components, the chance that armor is hit is 10*5/150=1/3. If the armor is hit, then it loose one armor (9 armor left).
Ship B: 1 armor, has probability to be hit 50/150=1/3. It will loose 5kt struct, but then it will draw fire until destroyed!

Second shot: let's say the first shot damaged armor. 5kt damage for second shoot.
Ship A: each armor has 5/150 chance to be hit. 9 armor left, so 9*5/150 chance to be hit. If hit, one armor destroyed (8left). We can see the probability of armor being hit is decreasing. Moreover, it will redo the random targeting everytime an armor is destroyed, making it more likely to hit other components.

Ship B: 5kt to armor. No other componant can be hit as armor is already damaged.

Would that be the explanation for the test you did?

Fyron May 15th, 2003 08:17 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Just so you know, if the damage to the ship is not enough to destroy the randomly targetted component, then that damage is stored up and added to the next shot's damage, which is randomly assigned to a component. There is no partial damage for components.

Phoenix-D May 15th, 2003 08:36 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
And the damage is sometimes lost completely, if shields regenerate (crystal armor, shield regenerators)- if the next shot doesn't penetrate the shields, the partial damage is IIRC lost. Either that or it goes into the shields.

Fyron May 15th, 2003 08:38 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I believe it goes to the shields. It is converted to the damage type of whatever the next weapon is. So if the next shot is from a Tachyon Projection Cannon, it does all the damage to weapons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

narf poit chez BOOM May 15th, 2003 09:20 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
another trick for micromanagers. is all the hassle worth it?

Fyron May 15th, 2003 09:23 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Huh? It has nothing to do with micromanagement, just a note on how the damage model works.

narf poit chez BOOM May 15th, 2003 09:46 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
well, you could have major damage stored from a big weapon and put it all in weapon damage. i'm not sure how, but someone might figure it out.

Fyron May 15th, 2003 09:52 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
That only works if all components have more hit points than your weapons do damage (a lot more). Otherwise, it is such a rare occurance that it does not matter.

Fyron May 15th, 2003 10:05 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I have noticed that noone has as yet said anything bad about my mod or anything in it. Is it because everything I have done is perfect and there are no problems (esp. balance issues and such; is that comp way too powerful?) at all? I doubt it! I am sure there are some dumb things I have done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Point them out! Don't worry: egos are fictictious, so there is no possibility of crushing mine (or inflating it either).

Ruatha May 15th, 2003 10:07 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
About the Adamant mod:
I haven't tried it but I like the name http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

StarBaseSweeper May 15th, 2003 11:11 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I have noticed that noone has as yet said anything bad about my mod or anything in it. Is it because everything I have done is perfect and there are no problems (esp. balance issues and such; is that comp way too powerful?) at all? I doubt it! I am sure there are some dumb things I have done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Point them out! Don't worry: egos are fictictious, so there is no possibility of crushing mine (or inflating it either).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To say something good:
I like the idea of leaky armor. I may one day ask you for permission of using the idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

To say something bad:
It seems from the file that there isn't such big difference between the 3 races. I means that you could imagine that the organic would not have big ships, only fighters and carrier. Or thing like this to make them really very different. Currently it seems you can "basically" do the same with all of them, just the name change and the caracteristic are a bit different, but no really big change (to take bad example, like in starcraft, when the 3 races seem a bit similar to your idea but are very different in strategy).

But of course as I currently cannot play, my opinion is not worth much...

I will trty as soon as I can play again...

Fyron May 15th, 2003 11:18 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Ah, finally a real response! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

My goal was to work up a basis for each race, and then differentiate them from there. Weaponry is going to be one area where they are quite different, though I have not gotten around to it yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

A lot of things have to be looking like just duplicates of each other because that is necessary for the basics. How many ways can you make a ship bridge, after all?

Have you looked at the latest Versions? The races now have vastly differing ship sizes, so that is going to make a difference right there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ruatha May 15th, 2003 03:23 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

A lot of things have to be looking like just duplicates of each other because that is necessary for the basics. How many ways can you make a ship bridge, after all?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not very many, you can call them different things though.
A "Central Nest" for some kind of insectous creatures.
And perhaps some race wouldn't need a bridge, only "crew quarters" and "life support", a telepatic race that can oerate it's machinery from anywhere on the ship.
A race that doesn't need life support, I mean thake the Thermolians, they are dead, isn't life support wasted on them?

Small creatures could have many small bridges and crew quarters.
Making it easy to take out some but then some might survive, is it possible to make a ship have half movement points if half the bridge components are taken out?

(Not directly Adamant oriented but some ideas perhaps..)

[ May 15, 2003, 14:26: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Fyron May 15th, 2003 08:31 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
You can only ever have 1 bridge on a ship. You can have as many "auxiliary control" components as you want though. You can not mod the effects of losing C&C components; they are hard-coded.

I have indeed given them very different names. But the complaint was that they still accomplish the same things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

How about sensors? ECM? There is really only one way to implement them. Sure, I could give the different kinds different rates, but they still boil down to the same thing with different names.

Fyron May 15th, 2003 08:53 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Mephisto has given the go-ahead on using the TDM AIs as the base for the AI in the mod. So JLS, go ahead and start from the TDM AIs instead of the unmodded AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Suicide Junkie May 15th, 2003 09:02 PM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by StarBaseSweeper:
Maybe I got it.
Do you think it could be for the following reason.
2 ships:
Ship A: 150kt total struct, including 10*5kt "armor" (not defined as armor, just as decoy).
Ship B: 150kt total struct, including 1*50kt "armor" (decoy as well, no armor ability).

On the first hit, let's say 5Kt damage, we have for each ship:
Ship A: each "armor" has 5/150 chance to be hit. As there is 10 such components, the chance that armor is hit is 10*5/150=1/3. If the armor is hit, then it loose one armor (9 armor left).
Ship B: 1 armor, has probability to be hit 50/150=1/3. It will loose 5kt struct, but then it will draw fire until destroyed!

Second shot: let's say the first shot damaged armor. 5kt damage for second shoot.
Ship A: each armor has 5/150 chance to be hit. 9 armor left, so 9*5/150 chance to be hit. If hit, one armor destroyed (8left). We can see the probability of armor being hit is decreasing. Moreover, it will redo the random targeting everytime an armor is destroyed, making it more likely to hit other components.

Ship B: 5kt to armor. No other componant can be hit as armor is already damaged.

Would that be the explanation for the test you did?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, as I tried to note, the light-armored ship had 50% more hitpoints on its armor (6k vs 4k)
If the hits were chosen as you said, then the light-armored ship should have had a tougher armor, and have lost weapons slower than the heavy armored ship.

Rather, in this case, the ship with much FEWER armor hitpoints, but larger hitpoints per armor component had its armor hit MORE often.

Ed Kolis May 16th, 2003 03:52 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Wasn't that Fyron's intent - the heavier armor provides fewer hitpoints of protection but still manages to absorb a higher percentage of hits? It does say so right in the component description http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron May 16th, 2003 05:52 AM
Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Yes it was. SJ was supporting my components against the concerns raised that they might not work as intended. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


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