Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A couple of levels in Point Defense Cannons will make those moot as well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Essentially right.

But IIRC, there is a hard coded 1% chance to hit, in which case it would not be impossible to hit, only nearly impossible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

and then the talisman guy screw you completely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Considering how much research is needed to get to talisman, you should have other edges on him by the time he comes out with shrine-ships.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Considering how much research is needed to get to talisman, you should have other edges on him by the time he comes out with shrine-ships.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The guy I'm facing is Deeply Religious... But I doubt he's got talisman yet. If he does, I'll just ignore the chance-to-hit stuff and go for bigger, well armoured ships.

If he doesn't, this sounds like a good route, especially since half this stuff is necessary if he does have talisman anyway.

I'm right now racing up the PSychic weapons paths to get AS ASAP.

Oh and, woot! 100+ replies! =)

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

"Yet again, I blame the confusing wording on the component "ignores all damage of 10 or less." does not mean the same thing as "subtracts 10 from inbound damage.""

It didn't always work like that and it -does- ignore all damage of 10 or less, not subtract (else you'd be healing with <10 hits)

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> [quote]Originally posted by Pooka:

Quote:

Originally posted by Loser: [qb]The guy I'm facing is Deeply Religious... I'm right now racing up the Psychic weapons paths to get AS ASAP.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Religious? This guy probably has a War Shrine, which will drop the 100% defensive bonus down to 95%, maybe even 90% http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ...Sure, having him miss 9/10 shots is good, but having him miss 99/100 shots is so much sweeter http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

So, the uber-defense ships (if you finally get around to making them) ought to get some training...your Psychic Ship training facilities (which IIRC, train all ships in the system) should do nicely.

By the way - what are your Culture, Traits, and Characteristics, and what are the Culture & Traits of "Hippo"?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

The discussion here about defensive bonuses seems a little misinformed. All offensive and defensive mods on both sides are added together to determine the final to-hit chance. The minimum 1% is then applied. By the time you can make a ship with a +90% defensive bonus, your enemy can typically come up with a +65% offensive bonus. The more the merrier of course, since they add and the values are quite high in the unmodded game, so it can and does get lopsided quite quickly.

PvK

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, in most cases...but this newbie Pooka's fighting doesn't use shields, so I doubt they'd even use Combat Sensors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, in most cases...but this newbie Pooka's fighting doesn't use shields, so I doubt they'd even use Combat Sensors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">he's got combat sensors I. Just found that out when I stole a dread with 'em and waxed two of his carriers.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

"but this newbie Pooka's fighting doesn't use shields,"

Watch it..that might not mean newbie. I don't install sheilds on ships until I get up to Phased III or so. Too vulnerable to PPBs otherwise.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Well, any update on how the game's going? It would be nice to see if all our advice worked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

I found a new dirty trick....

Role play a race of dogs...
when your attacked,
call the enemy "Puppy Killers"

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Or don't shower for a month before fighting, that should be dirty enough!

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bwhahahahahahah! Too bad it won't save your empire! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Espeically when you've killed more of your own puppies than we ever killed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 17, 2003, 22:55: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

To Quote P.K. Fyron:

"It's not whether you win or lose that counts: it's how much pain you inflict along the way."

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Trying to go down in flames in style, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, not to go into too much details, since I know atleast one of Hippo's roomates found this forum (he's trustworthy though, I doubt he's spilling anything.) But I'm still marching up the psychic weapons path, waiting to find Alleigance subverter.I've got the TK projector and make-you-shoot-slower-ray but no AS yet. The first wave of 10 sweeper ships is ready, but will they get to sweep for mines before they are destroyed utterly by the enemy's fighters? The cloaked shipyard BC is ready to go as soon as I'm sure there aren't any more mines. In fact, I have an entire cloaked strike fleet ready to slip through and start making havoc in his rear quarter.

Two of his "allies" are getting nervous now after I managed to com-mimic him into war with one of them. I then took advantage of the fact that he missed his turn to convince them that he's using missing his turns as an excuse to have the comp declare war for him. (That way he can always try to take it back later.) They ate that up, hook-line-and-sinker. The war didn't materialize but the damage to their confidence has been done, and they're talking to me a lot more now.

He's got something headed my way, it'll be arrived by mid next week. I don't know what it is, but 30+ dreads remain a possibility. I've got intel projects ready to roll, and am poised to consume as much of that fleet as I can before it hits my blockade. My fleet training centers have just about finished maxing out my ships/fleets to the best of their ability.

Things are progressing well, basically. I just neet to have the time to let these plans develop to fruition.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well. Well, it sounds like you have the 'dirty' part pretty well down...

Everything that deals with mines already spaced happens before anything else. When you send those sweepers though, they _will_ clear the mines (and get hit by them if there are any mines left) before they engage in combat with the enemy. Remember to set them to RAM (set the whole class to Ram) so they do some damage before they're slaughtered.

Then send your troublemakers through the very next turn.... Maybe you should only send on through, at first, just in case he has Sensor Satellites somewhere. It would be good to know before you send the whole fleet through.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, since this just cost me my fleet, it should be noted that sweepers get to sweep /after/ combat occurrs. I've been stealing his minesweepers and they just get shot by his fleet. Since every other ship I had ever claimed had only been attacked by a fleet, never a minefield, (infact I didn't even know what the 'struck a minefield' dialog looked like.) I figured he hadn't deployed his mines yet. (I found ship after ship with mine layers, but with it's full compliment of mines on board, etc. I figured he'd forgotten to deploy them.)

Lost my entire fleet to his minefield. Fortunately he's bored and likely done with the game now, but still, there needs to be a series of documents on how to use minesweepers, specifically on blockaded warp points. Otherwise it looks like it's just a matter of an invincible defense winning the game.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Sorry your fleet was destroyed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I'm interested to know exactly what happened. Are you certain that the mine sweepers went in first? Movement of ships occurs by day... that is to say, if you have a sweeper fleet with a movement rate of 10, the fleet will move one sector on day 3, then one more on day 6, 9, etc. If the other fleet (say your battle fleet) has a faster movement rate, lets say of speed 15, then it will move one movement point every second day.

It may not have been apparent to you, but unfortunately this means that the battle fleet will warp through the warp point before the sweeper fleet = mine detonation!

Now, did your battle fleet have a higher movement rate than the sweeper fleet? Or maybe the battle fleet was closer to the warp point than the sweeper fleet? I'm pretty sure that the sweepers would have done their job before combat was enjoined if they had warped through ahead of the battle fleet... this is why I always put the sweepers in with the battle fleet... sorry I didn't tell you this before.

Lastly, regarding his miner having mines on board still. I'm willing to bet money to donuts that he had put out his maximum complement of mines already, and those onboard mines were surplus. Once you went through and swept the mine field, he would be ready to erect and instant minefield again. If he was smart, he was sending "deploy mines" orders every turn, so that if you came through and destroyed a few mines, he wouldn't have to wait a turn before deploying replacements!

[ May 23, 2003, 17:56: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Did you send in minesweepers or just send in your fleet because you didn't think there were any mines?

The mine sweepers you stole from him wouldn't sweep mines because they were already in the sector. Mine sweepers automatically sweep mines when they move into a sector, but if they are in a sector with mines in it, you have to use that little sweep button. Of course, you wouldn't get a chance to push this button when there are enemy ships in the same sector.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Use the ship movement replay button to see which ships went in in which order, then report back!.
Now, dismissed, carry out your orders Private Pooka.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This was the problem. I figured minesweepers swept mines. My sweeper fleet never even got deployed. I held them back because I figured, why send my minesweepers, when I can just use his?

The documentation, as I have said, is very poor on this subject. Regardless, I have a minefield of my own, plethora of fighters, and collection of starbases. I also didn't send my cloaking SY through, so I still have that. I'll set it to building some other stuff while I rebuild a fleet. Very frustrating lesson, though.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Don't just leave it there... send the sweeper fleet in to die and pop that SY throgh the turn after... or maybe with them.... but cloaked.

But if it's in the same fleet as them, even if it's cloaked, I think it still ends up in combat... I think...

Well, when you make that work, you build your Drone Factory in some obscuring Storm and start raining hell down on his unsuspecting population with your cloaked drone fleet. yeah

Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom....

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

[edit: double post, sorry]

[ May 23, 2003, 18:52: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sadly we're playing v1.49 right now (I just created a Gold game to use as a sequel since folks are starting to get bored and decide that 1.49 is too buggy). So no drone fleets, but cloaked troop-dropping ships are on my list, and covert recon is my friend. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sweeper fleet will go through next turn, and I'll try to set it up so that my SY goes through on the same turn, but not the same day. How would one set this up?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, not the same turn, in that case it will die.
If it is at the same sector as the sweepers at the same day it will enter combat even if it's not fleeted with them (If cloaked it will decloak).
The turn after he will propably have a minefield there again, see Jimbob's post below.

Any fleet you have must include capacity to sweep 100 mines, never move that fleet without supporting sweepers in it!!,Never!

[ May 23, 2003, 18:38: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have sweeping ships now, but it takes 10 destroyers, yet, to sweep 100 mines. How do you slip a cloaked ship through this mess?

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Use transport hulls for minesweeping. Two medium transports with Minesweeper component 3 can easily sweep 100 mines.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have sweeping ships now, but it takes 10 destroyers, yet, to sweep 100 mines. How do you slip a cloaked ship through this mess?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You don't even try, sorry.
Save it for when you take your next fleet with those additional 10 sweeping destroyers with you, or better yet, research larger hulls!

[ May 23, 2003, 20:47: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How are you going to do that? If you select a medium transport hull in TDM/unmodded SEIV, you have to fill it for 50% with cargo bays. Doesn't leave a lot of room for minesweeper components.

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

Whatever happened in this game? Did you end up beating up? I need some closure!

Re: Fight Dirty?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sadly the game died as a result of some of it's players being unable to take it as a game.

He begged me to stop the war since he apparently was aiming for a peaceful resolution to the game, I declined and continued my intel programs unhindered...

then things got ugly between us IRL.

The game was cancelled shortly thereafter as a result of lack of interest.