Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

These are the following changes to the Pretenders v2.0

There are some things which are limited by the Modding Tools availiable for Illwinter. One of which is a redistricting of Pretenders, along with other statistical, auto-summoning, battle-summoning, certain unit modifications, global modifications and others. The Conceptual Balance series is my concept of Balance of the Game to allow *everything* to be a viable and game mechanical worthy choice not specifically for theme. While there is no "best" there are certain Pretenders with certain nations better suited to various strategies. With this in mind, here are the changes.

** denote changes from the Last Version

Weapons (weapon nbr / weapon name / changes)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(61) Fire Breath +1 AOE
(62) Bile +2 AOE
(254) Plague Breath +1 Ammo +1 AOE
(4) Lance +1 Length
(357) Light Lance +1 Length

New Weapons:
(999) Wing Buffet dmg -5, att 0, def 1, length 5, aoe 1 (flail, bonus)
(998) Roar dmg -5, att 0, def 0, length 5, aoe 1 (flail, bonus)

Pretenders (monster nbr / monster name / changes)

Monster:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(973) Ancient Kraken +50 PR, +50 CR
(779) Divine Serpent Pathcost: 30
(265) Dragon (blue) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(266) Dragon (green) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(216) Dragon (red) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(226) Great Sage (r. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, **+Mountain Survival, +Wasteland Survival
(267) Frost Father (b. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Sailing, **+Mountain Survival
(268) Master Druid (g. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, **+Swamp Survival
(644) Dracolich **Basecost: 150, +8 Prot, +4 Prec, +Immortal, +Wing Buffet
(645) Bog Mummy **+25 FR, +Immortal
(Dracolich 2nd shape)
(462) Manticore +8 Prot, +2 Att, +2 Def, +Wing Buffet
(294) Nerid Basecost: 75, +Mounted
(608) Phoenix +Fire
(334) Golden Naga Basecost: 90, -2 Enc, +Mounted, +Body Slot, Dominion: 2
(157) Naga Basecost: 90, -2 Enc, +Mounted, +Body Slot, Dominion: 2, Stealth 0
(655) Scorpion King +Mounted, +Body Slot
(661) Shedu +2 Def, -2 Enc, +Wing Buffet, +Earth
(978) Great Black Bull Pathcost: 60, -2 Enc
(979) Great White Bull Pathcost: 60, -2 Enc
(269) Wyrm Basecost: 50, +4 Def

(138) Medusa +4 HP
(383) Prince of Death +100 CR, +100 PR
(215) Virtue +Astral, -Air


Giant:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(501) All-Father Pathcost: 50
(955) Asynja Basecost: 100, -2 Air, +Astral, +Nature, +Glamour, +Stealth 25
(156) Cyclops **+20% Forge Bonus
(109) Dagon +6 Def
(385) Daughter of the Land Basecost: 75, +Earth
(606) Great Mother -1 Enc
(603) Father of Serpents +3 Def, +2 Prec, Poison Cloud: 6
(858) Jade Emperor -1 Enc, +2 Prec
(964) Lord of Fertility +Awe +2, +Nature
(957) Lord of the Desert Sun +3 Def, +2 Prec, +Roar
(388) Lord of the Gates **Basecost: 75, +Fear, +Astral
(604) Lord of the Night Basecost: 125
(812) Lord of the Wild Basecost: 125
(387) Mother of Lions +3 Def, +Stealth 0, +Roar, +Nature
(961) Son of the Sea **Basecost: 100, -Water, +Earth, +Mapmove
(386) Son of the Sun (red) +2 Fire Gems
(384) Son of the Sun (white) Basecost: 75, +Fire
(602) Titan (Male) Basecost: 110, +1 Att, +1 Def, +1 Prec, +Mountain Survival, +Mapmove
(600) Titan (Female) +Nature
(652) Void Lord -Head Slot, Dominion: 3


Immobile:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(958) Colossal Head +Nature, +Blood
(1025) Divine Glyph Basecost: 75, +Immortal
(656) Fountain of Blood Pathcost: 30, +10 HP, +3 Blood Slaves
(158) Oracle Pathcost: 30, +10 HP, +2 Astral Gems
(657) Monolith +2 Nature Gems
(472) Sacred Statue Basecost: 30, Pathcost: 20, -Astral,


Human (rainbow):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(401) ***** Queen +5 Prec, +Stealth 0
(402) Crone (BQ 2nd shape) -3 Enc, +3 Prec
(246) Freak Lord +11 HP, -2 Enc, +Nature
(245) Arch Druid +11 HP, -2 Enc
(248) Arch Mage (Water) +11 HP, -2 Enc
(244) Arch Mage Basecost: 25, +11 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 2
(509) Arch Seraph Basecost: 50, +8 HP
(249) Crone = Hag Basecost: 25, +6 HP, -2 Enc, +3 Prec, +Iron Crutch
(250) Frost Father
= Rime Mariner Basecost: 45, +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Sailing
(270) Master Druid Basecost: 45, +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Swamp Survival
(251) Great Sage Basecost: 25, +8 HP, -2 Enc
(485) Great Enchantress Basecost: 45, +7 HP, -2 Enc, +Ethereal
(873) Great Seer of the Deeps Basecost: 45, +9 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 2, +Water
(486) Great Warlock -2 Enc, Dominion: 2, +Quarterstaff, +Fire
(550) Master Alchemist +9 HP, -2 Enc, +2 Prec, +Earth
(857) Smoking Mirror +5 HP, -2 Enc
(858) Smoking Mirror (Jaguar) +16 HP, -1 Enc, +7 Prec, +13 MR
(500) Skratti = Elder Skratti -1 Enc, +1 Att, +3 Def, +Blood
(653) Serpent King **+8 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 3
(654) Serpent King (Serpent) +16 HP, -2 Enc, +3 Def, +2 Prec
(874) Divine Emperor -2 Enc, Dominion: 3


(872) Ghost King Basecost: 110, Pathcost: 30
(180) Master Lich = Arch Lich **+1 Death Gems, +Disease Cloud 6
(179) Lich +50 FR
(395) Lich Queen +50 FR
(320) Saurolich +50 FR
(643) Bog Mummy +25 FR



Unedited Pretenders:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(607) Baphomet
(1026) Carrion Dragon
(601) Lady of Fortune
(120) Moloch
(956) Mother of Tuathas
(499) Nataraja
(605) Son of Niefel
(159) Sphinx
(862) Vampire Queen
(546) Void Lurker

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

Comprehensive readme files for Spell mods 1.6 and 1.7 and Pretender mods 1.9 and 2.0 will be made available tomorrow. Right now it's too bloody late (0:45 am) and my gf will kill me if I don't shut the computer down very soon, is why the delay.

The readme's will have a major change of format in that everything will be displayed with the current modded values followed by original values in parentheses, instead of the previously used +/- x without reference to original value. I got too bloody tired referencing my own weapons and unit databases every time there was some minor change, and it will make the readmes more user friendly.

Edi

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

From the game this Sunday, it seems that the current elemental summoning spells may need tweaking - several of us thought that putting a gem requirement back might be good, because it's currently possible to really spam elementals. True, not with most national mages (albeit Atlantis, Abysia, Caelum, etc could manage it on a limitted scale) but a pretender going for a 9 or 10 bless winds up being able to churn out elementals every cast with almost no fatigue loss to limit it. Likewise, the elemental royalty and arch devils could spam elementals almost unlimittedly with a couple of boosters.

And, since the AI prefers to summon things more than almost anything else, it tends to continue to pump elementals after the script has run out.

Just seems a little unbalanced, watching a Moloch spew forth 15 or more full size fire elementals with his fatigue staying about 20 or 30. Said Moloch had a small army with him, but with just a dozen Mictlanish slaves would probably have slowed down 130 carrion creatures (or most other armies) long enough for the torrent of elementals to wipe out the opposing army.

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

actually caelum can't spam elementals, air ones still need gems, but you don't even need a level 9 bless to spam elementals, an earth 6 or 7 cyclops can cast summon earth power and keep the elementals coming the entire battle. I would recomend upping the fatige cost to 100-200, a very high level bless could still spam for a while, but would eventually run out.

odd_enuf

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

100+ fatigue cost will then add a gem to the cost, so...

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

I had heard that the fatigue cost was set low to keep communions from killing themselves off with elementals after script ran out.

Adding a gem would solve spamming, but result may be that that spell is just never used.

What about raising path by one, and raising fatigue from 40 to 60? Would that make the spell still used/usable, but not overpowered or deadly to communions?

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

Well, the original elemental spells mostly took 2 gems; if they were 1 gem apiece they might be used....

I think the problem may be that if a communion can effectively use the spell, an uber mage (pretender, elemental king, etc) can spam it....

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

You have a good point.

Would modding the elementals themselves to make them a bit weaker be a solution?

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

All right, here are the readme files for the following mods:
CB Spells 1.6 and 1.7
CB Pretenders 1.9 and 2.01

If you're wondering about the 2.01 Version designation, it's because I fixed a couple of minor typos in the mod file and rearranged the pretenders to the same order they are listed in the readme so that future readme updates won't be such a goddamn fukking pain in the arse. The 2.01 Pretender mod is naturally included in the package. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edi

Re: Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)
 

Crash, I think the best solution would be to up the fatigue cost for the elemental summoning spells to around 90 to limit spamming (you could still spam if you had relief casters or bards when playing Man, but it would mitigate the problem somewhat. Adding a gem requirement for the full elementals would work, but I suspect the result would just be a lesser elemental spam.

Edi