Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Greetings.

I've posted an update for BM Small Systems here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod-extras.php

It speeds up ships in combat and adds in the v1.18 data file changes.

To upgrade a v1.17 game, apply the BM v1.18 patch and then the small systems update.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I like the 'extras' but I really like the promised AIs. Can you do some others besides 'Trek' races? How about some Babylon 5 races? Even better would be if someone would do shipsets from some other games, like Star Control or Master of Orion, and we could then get AIs for those.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I'll probably do the Empire and Rebel Alliance next, then perhaps some of the nicer looking custom sets. I don't know much at all about Babylon 5 races though.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Greetings.

I've posted an updated for the Pollution and Random Research event scripts.

http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod-extras.php

There was a bug that resulted in an incorrect amount of research points being applied/subtracted from a project with the Random Research Script.

I added a small happiness penalty for pollution in the v1.01 of the Pollution Events script.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

This bug in the random research script, was it present in the original scripts that SJ and I wrote, or is it something specific to your version of it? If the former, SJ and I might want to fix it too ;)

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The error was restricted to this one.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

'Balance mod' seems to be slowly becoming an actual mod.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

There was a bug with the AI sometimes surrendering to other races when it wasn't intended. It's been fixed with the v1.18 patch available at the website. You can go and re-download it if you want to avoid the bug. :P

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I can't seem to get to point defense weapons in 1.18, they don't come up after military science is researched? :confused:

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

You've likely started a game using a saved game setup that was made with a pre-v1.15 version of the mod.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Greetings.

I've posted v1.19 of the Balance Mod. Version 1.19 makes some significant improvements to the AI's starting technology selection, improves its handling of warp point defenses, plus the usual assortment of fixes and tweaks.

It's savegame compatible with any Balance Mod v1.15+ games.

You can download it here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

As usual, thank you very much for your excellent work.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Thanks Q!

Just a quick note to Small Systems users, they'll be a quick update tomorrow to bring some of the component data changes in the mini mod up to v1.19. Nothing that will interfere with savegames etc., and you can continue using the current Small Systems v1.01 without problems with BM v1.19 until the v1.02 update is posted.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I've posted the v1.02 of the Small Systems mod. It includes the component updates from v1.19 of the Balance Mod.

Find it here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod-extras.php

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Besides the (usual) minor troubles with the AI behaviour (I'll get to that later, after more testing), I'm really having trouble with migration - did you change anything else in your mod than:
Actually, the problem I'm having is that I have too few troubles, crazy as it sounds :rolleyes:
Migration movement outwards from the homeworlds is so strong that I don't need any pop transports in the first 10, maybe even 20 turns or more. I started with 3 evenly sized homeworlds, and only those with "good" conditions barely keep their pop level, the other is slightly draining away with only 3 additional colonies founded in the starting systems.(no racial reproduction modifiers, no med labs build, "+12" means coloniser send out on that turn):
I have never noticed such a pronounced effect of migration in SE before. Maybe because I normally go for medical tech/centers very early, and the added +1% growth overcoming the problem? Anyhow, homeworlds depleting on their own ain't that great IMHO.

edit: PS - Thanks for this mod, keep up the good work !!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Migration to newly founded breathable colonies is strong at first and then they level off and start to rely on their own reproduction for further growth.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I've been playing two games... large maps and lots of AI opponents(17 and 18). It seems they show very little interest(almost zero) in building research facilities, which seems to be one of the most important buildings. As a result I have 4X their research each turn. I've only played two games... so maybe it's just bad luck.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Approximately how many systems are in your quadrants? Often a crowded galaxy stunts AI growth because there's a lot of early interaction between players and fewer colonies per player, which doesn't always allow for an AI to get a good distribution of their facility types.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

It's a large randomly generated map with approximately 125 systems.

Half of the AI opponents have the same research as when the game started. Here are the settings I've used: The year is 2406.0 (60 turns?), everyone started with one planet with good equal conditions, medium AI difficulty, starting racial&technology&resource starting points were low, and balanced starting setting for planets.
I did include neutral opponents so perahps they are the ones not building research facilities??

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Are you using any custom ship sets?

How many colonies do these races with stagnant resource totals have?

You can send the savegame to contact at captainkwok.net and I can take a look at it to see if there's any issues.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

No custom ship sets.
The number of colonies range between 2 to as high as 24.

2 seem to be doing good researching levels
7 seem to be doing average researching levels
8 seem to be doing poor researching levels

I'll be sending the savegame soon... perhaps I just had bad luck.

I bet this is to blame.
I started at least 3 games with high difficulty/low bonus and paradise quadrants, and never noticed any "main nation" AI turtling in any deparment.

In fact, I had to go in settings.txt and reduce the AI bonus from 2.0 to 1.3 to make the game more sensible - AI was just "pouring all over the map", those with a good start developing an expansion speed that left me no choice but to restart (I'm playing with simultanious move, so there's no way to "manually" beat down fleets of 5 times mine's size ...).

As I'm always trying out new mods with master password enabled and all scores visible, it's easy to look into it if something really goes wrong. Yet, the AIs are doing quite well .. notice the Abbidons are completely out-researching me (again), despite having only 2 planets more then me !!!
Just in case somebody wonders - player 13-17 are obvisouly minor AIs which do not leave their home systems. Yet No17 seems to have gotten a lucky draw ... .
While looking at this - would it be possible to make shure that minors build intel centers?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Some notes from my "test" games:

- AI uses up to 10(!) light organic armor in FF
- AI uses 1 main gun on Troop Transport, but no PD (e.g. Ukra-Tal 1x Acid Globule)

- AI offers nonaggression in all systems with 5% ressource tariff upon first meeting, even if they're rated higher
- minor AIs still offer intersettling treaties, now even "bribe" to get them offering tariff or tech levels (which they normally don't have)
- in general, AIs are still much too eager to do intersettling treaties
- AI asks for military assistence for a mere trade alliance treaty (trade 15% / non agg. in all sys. / share maps / share minef. codes / share medical)


- would it be possible to edit the default TF/fleet formations? E.g. have TFs flee in formation to give them better PD coverage, or have ships abort attack at 5%-10% (internal) damage ?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

There's no implementation of difficulty levels in SE5. I also haven't added any difficulty features yet either in the mod. :P

If an AI only has a handful of colonies, their colony type distribution might be skewed towards whatever the planets it has are best at.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Oh, really? I guess the following options are purely cosmetic, then?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...2&d=1240929832

I'm not sure 'bout the AI difficulty level which was turning off ministers in SE4 and supposedly is in SE5 as well, but I'm pretty sure the "Computer Player Bonus .." lines in settings.txt do work, e.g. while the doubled research points do not show up in the comparison screen, they do show up on the research screen if you log into an AI position (but they're gone as soon as you hit "end turn", for obvious reasons)

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

During new game setup, under empires there's a computer player difficulty level... which I setup as Medium.

Based on my current game it seems the AI opponents need 8 or more planets before investing within research facilities.

I see... I was using medium difficulty with no bonus for the computers. Thanks for the suggestion, these first two games are mostly allowing me to learn the game since there's so much to learn. I'm expecting my next game to have increased difficulty settings.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I know there are difficulty settings that exist in the game setup menu, but I'm saying they don't do anything.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Wow, I had no idea... thanks for the heads up. :)

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Kwok: in your page says that the Small Systems mod increases turn processing time... any idea by how much? if it´s less than 50% i´ll try SEV again with your balance mod and small systems mod...

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

On average, it cuts down the time of the movement phase by about 50%. Overall, I'd estimate you get about 25-30% savings depending on the frequency of combats.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

So your mod decreases turn processing time? Then you must change the description in your page, as it says there that the mod increases turn processing time...

I´ll definitely reinstall SEV this weekend and try your mod(s)! Thanks!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Oops!

The Small Systems mini-mod does decrease turn times and increases performance. :P

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Minister Oddity
Lately, I had 2 pop transport (small freighter hull) which simply sat there when turned to minister control: the pop transport minister simply didn't touch them.

When I switch the troop minister on, they started gathering troops!

And yes, I double-checked their type - said "population transport". I even did a new design with type "pop transport", and refitted one of them - no change.

Then it dawned to me - the 2 ships started out as troop transports, but where retrofitted to the pop transport class. Normally, I don't have any trouble with this, but the troop transport design got obsoleted and deleted from the designs list, and this may be causing the troubles.

I'm not sure if this only occures with the BM, guess this might happen with the vanilla game as well.
I wonder, though, if the AI (in BM, or in general) does this cross-retrofitting as well, making it's ship useless, and if something could be done 'bout it, if it does?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

There's two design type designations attached to a ship. One is the external ('player') design type and the other is an internal ('AI') design type. Based on your observations, it appears when a ship is retrofit to another design type, it's internal design type doesn't get changed. Unfortunately I can't do anything about that for individual ships (only actual designs).

The AI occasionally cross-retofits, but only between the combat design types. For orders, those ships are lumped together so there wouldn't be any tangible effects as there would be specific design type orders like Troop Transports etc.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Some more remarks from a 1.19/1.77 game:

AI Diplomacy

- AI asks for military help without having a corresponding treaty: 1st time it (can't remember which one) asked for ships in some system , while we had only 15% trade / non-aggr. in all systems/share mine codes / share medical; 2nd instance was the Xi'Chung, who had only a "neutrality pact" with non-aggr. in all systems - nevertheless they send "We immediatly request any and all military assistance ..."

- AI is (still) too eager to offer intersettling treaties, preferably as an update to an existing treaty after relations have become good.

- AI "updates" basic treaties (non-aggression etc.) without changing the treaty name. Having "non-interference treaties" which in fact are intersettling treaties is slightly confusing, IMHO.



AI shipbuilding
I checked several AI nations in my ongoing game (turn 142 with standard research), where everyone has shields, some emissive armor, ECM etc.:

- generally, the AI uses to few PD guns, sometimes even none at all, e.g. missile ships of the Sergetti (crys.), and therefore are easily killed with missiles on warppoints.

- mixing beam/missile weapons on attack ships generally doesn't really work out with "optimal range" in my experience: they either stay away too much, and never use the gun(s), or they get too close and fried by a bunch of fast-firing short range beam weapons. Yet the AI seems to be set up to do exactly that ... . So my suggestion: go with "shielded missile boats" based on FF/DD hulls, as those have too little tonnage anyway for armor/shielding, ECM, sensors etc., what you all would want for a beamer ship that goes toe-to-toe.

- AI is overly fond of armour, at the expense of PD, offensive weapons and -at least on smaller hulls- shields/rechargers. Having 1 gun, 1 PD, a single shield, but 3 heavy/ 2 light std. armours on a DD doesn't make much sense to me: 2 shields, 3 guns would win any time ?! Likewise, a medium transport mine-/satellite layer does not really need to carry 11(!) heavy armours, I guess.

- AI builds Kamikaze Ships with order "Optimal Range", what does not work. I saw such a ship wander right into a space station, but no ramming occured, and the warheads didn't go off. Results against ships wheren't any better.



component balance

- CSM damage seems to high, what is especially bad considering the low PD usage (suggestion: ~80%)

- Small Rocket Pods: are the ultimate fighter weapon; due to very high damage and long delay, the fighters swoop in to deliver tremendous damage, then retreat back to relativly safety at roughly max PD range. Fighters with "real guns" need not only more time to deliver the same amount of damage, but tend to stay in the PD envelope and get killed pretty fast. Compare to "Fighter Kamikaze Warhead" - it's the same size, similar damage, but the warhead fires only once, and the carrying fighter is destroyed as well. On ground troops, SRP are absolutly devastating too. My suggestion: damage down to 50-67%, and make them unable to target e.g. fighters.

- especially bad seems to be the "Small Ripper Beam", which is essentially useless, unless for some reason one manages to get his fighters un-hittable (maybe because the opponent does not use combat sensors), which is unlikely ..



Minister

- the "Renaming Minister" (or however you called him) does rename even ships after they've been given a "special name", without any retrofit involved. As not the complete name is overwritten, the result is somewhat ... remarkable, e.g. "SpecialTransportShip" turns into "Pop Trans IV 0009hip". Guess there ain't much what could be done 'bout this - or would it be possible to check if the first 3 letters of the ship name correspond with the type name, and only rename if that's true, so a "Pop Trans III 0009" would become a "Pop Trans IV 0009".
That would come in especially handy for Base Space Yards, which I tend to name after the planet they're orbiting ...


Happiness

- pop gets unhappy because of "ship losses" if you lose some troops conquering an enemy planet in the same system .. oh, wait, maybe that's realistic, must check the society settings ;)

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Add.: Kamikaze Ships

- it seems it's only a handful AIs which designs kamikaze ships at all (Sergetti, Xi'Chung, etc), and all seem to use the type "Kamikaze Attack Ships" with "optimal range" order, which does not work.

- I tested a kamikaze ship - with "kamikaze attack" order, it even was able to successfully ram a fighter !

- but for the player, there's only "Kamikaze Fighter" design type, not "Kamikaze Attack Ship" available.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

It seems I've left out the 'Kamikaze Attack Ship' design type in DesignTypes.txt and also missed it for giving it a proper default setting in the AI's design creation file.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The first issue I think I could fix myself (can I, or are there any pitfalls?),
but I'm at a loss with the 2nd one ... .
Any hints ?

edit: ... !! Found it myself:
www.captainkwok.net/files/BalanceModScriptsv119.zip

:cold: :envy: :( :mad:
... I added
"Kamikaze Attack Ship":
call Sys_Set_Vehicle_Design_Strategy(sys_long_Player_ID , design_id, "Kamikaze")
to the end of the "Set_Design_Type_Strategy" list, but Script_AI_DesignCreation.txt does not compile ... :


Btw., I did thank you for your excellent mod, did I ?
:)

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Some more remarks:

- Why do you keep Kamikaze Ships from being resupplied and retrofitted? They are set to join fleets, therefore they would "drag down" all other ships if running low on supplies, and Kamikaze Ships with outdated engines will less likely be able to ram an enemy ship ...

- Is there a special cause for having beam guns on troop transports? This makes them close in with enemy ships if the fleet is attacked - something that is not really helpful ...

- likewise: recon sats have "don't get hurt", but they can't move .. "max / opt. range" ?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

You should use the design type name 'Kamikaze Attack Ship' to match the AI's current usage.

You do not compile the file Script_AI_DesignCreation, please refer to the Wiki on which files actually get compiled and where they need to go:
http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.p...t_Editing_(SEV)

(You may need to cut and paste link due to forum cutting off parenthesis)

In the end the one change you'll be making will only help out individual Kamikaze ships outside of fleets. The TF strategy will always overrule the design type strategy. For effective fleet usage of kamikaze ships, they need to be in a TF with the kamikaze strategy. I'll add this behavior in the next version of the mod.

AIs give Troop Transports a weapon to keep them together with the other warships when they are approaching a planet to capture it. It sometimes helps to avoid accidental glassings of the target or protect the troop transport.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Can you remind me which file to edit to change the default maximum number of ships allowed when a game is started? :confused:

I started a game and played for hours and suddenly bumped into the 200 ship limit because I forgot to change it. :doh::(

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I don't believe it's possible to change it once the game starts. You can try though, the values are set in Settings.txt.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Thanks Kwok, found that and adjusted the minimum numbers. You're correct, changing it has no effect on an already started game.


Is there a text file that determines the Game Options settings (Max ships, units,etc) the game selects for "default" on a new game, or is that hard wired?

Appreciate your help and work on your mod!

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

The game always seems to stick with the default value (200) even if it's not an actual available option.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Besides all the good advice Arrlaen mentioned on the previous page I recommend increasing the Score Factor - Empire Research Points Available within the ScoreWeighting.txt file since research plays one of the biggest roles within the game. I believe late game comparisons with multiple players which own large pieces of the quadrant would also validate increasing this value from .1 .

Also I recall you mentioned the Mega Evil Empire percentage was 170%, but when viewing the settings.txt file within the BM mod it appears to be 200%.

AI Human Mega Evil Empire Score Percent := 200

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I really hate to say that - but BM is broken atm ... as the AI is all to eager to offer intersettling treaties.
Especially "bad" are the Abbidons, which in my current game offered 30%trade/intersettling/full tech exchange(!) upon meeting them on turn 25 (+/- some). Judging from the score graphs, at least 1 AI got the offer as well, and accecpted it - what keeps them from becoming the MEE very effectively, while "in reality" they are! :o

Any way to fix this?

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

What is the described mood of the Abbidon? In order for a treaty of that nature to be proposed, they\'d have to be brotherly etc. I\'m at a loss on how they could have an anger level that low on first contact...

Can you send the savegame to:
savegame at captainkwok dot net

Please let me know if you\'re using any custom shipsets (and which ones) in your mail.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Sadly no savegame available from that turn, as I've played on a little bit ... .

IIRC, it was the very turn after I met them, and mood was "indifferent"

Sergetti behaved odd as well - we already had "Non-Agression" (non-agression in all systems), and they several times offered me a treaty change where they added "Sergetti give 5% tariff" but nothing more ?!

Not that odd, but annoying are the incessant requests of other AIs for intersettling treaties, which basically go "non-agression", then "we want some treaty change: 15%trade/colonisation in each others systems/share minefield codes" .. always way before they become "brotherly", but at least not that insane like the Abbiddon one ...

Only thing I changed from basic BM1.19 was
Max Warp Points per Sys := 6
Min Angle Between WP := 51
.. for Paradise Quadrants, as I feel this gives maps more like those in SE3/Se4 which I liked more.


Started a new game now with autosave enabled (was anyone able to use those autosaves up now, btw.? I always get some error message, and after that ALL saves from that game are unusuable..). Will 7-zip up the whole folder everytime something strange happens.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

Ok, here we go :

large quadrant (as before), high tech cost (instead of normal), high number of AI (as before), no neutral empires (changed that)

Abbiddon where the 3rd or 4th race I met - sadly, the very next turn I ran a scout over one of their colonies, accidently glassing the planet. Mood was "indifferent" the whole time, but maybe that kept them from offering another insane treaty proposal. (Somehow they must have gotten hold of rock colonizing tech around turn 27, thouhg. Either from a ruin or as a gift from someone else. They don't have a tech exchange treaty in turn 53, at least).

I offered them a gift (50k/20k/50k) ressources on turn 48, but relations didn't change ... ("indifferent")

Now, 5 turns later (turn 53), relations suddenly jump to "receptive", and I get a intersettling treaty suggestions ...

Note - relations in this game where much "cooler" up to that point than in the game before. Looking into the AIs turns, not many treaties have been signed up to now, while in the game before (where the Abbiddon made that insane suggestions) most nations which met had a treaty within several turns.

Does changing the tech costs or leaving out neutral empires make a difference here?


Everything is 7-zipped up and emailed to above adress.

Re: Balance Mod Available for SE:V
 

I took a look at the game and it appears mostly on target with the exception of the 5% tariff offer to you. It really should be to the Abbidon, but that's a known outstanding bug.

Regarding the setting allowing colonization, that's intentional. It generally works out better for the friendlier AIs to get more planets.

I was more concerned about the 30% trade level, full tech trade, or migration elements being offered too 'early' in relations. If you have a situation like that again, be sure to send me the game.