Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I'm adding 24 hours to the current turn to allow time for any more players who need to patch and to honor a delay request by Chrispedersen.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I don't know where my team is... don't suppose they could be given 6h or something, if Sept is watching this.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Ok, I'll throw another 6 hours on the clock and see what happens.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

We suspect that the turn hosted early. I am sending a message to Gandalf and Sept.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

It most certainly did not - I was watching the timer.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

When the timer on the page said 5 hours to go, that corresponded to 1:30am for Grudge.

Grudge got up at 12:30 am and sent the turn. And was staled.

The current turn was sent March 17, 17:28.
The last turn was sent March 13, 12:27.

Since 6 hours was added to the time, it *clearly* shows it hosted an hour early.

March 13: 1227
March 14: 12:27 (24 hours)
March 15: 12:27 (48 hours)
March 16: 12:27 (72 hours)
March 17: 12:27 (96 hours)
March 17: 18:27 HOSTING TIME.

And since it hosted at 17:28 IT HOSTED AN HOUR EARLY.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The timer never says time to go. It gives an absolute time, and an approximate countdown in hours. Which I have always said "sucks".

But testing it at the moment, it says
The game last hosted on Tue Mar 16 22:27:33 PDT 2010
And should host again on Fri Mar 19 22:27:00 2010
The NaV.cfg is set for 72 hours, approximately 34 more hours.

I have 12:22
plus 24 hours would be
12:22
plus 10 more would be
22:22
For an approximate countdown its not looking too bad.

And everything on my system from timer logs and including a pretty clear sequence of emails, seems to show that you missed the stated hosting time (not the countdown) by one minute. I have no idea what the countdown timer was.

Everything I have on it has been sent to Septimius

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Gandalf;

Just look at my previous entry in the thread. I listed the time of the previous turn, and the time the current turn.

They hosted 101 hours apart, not 102. Ie., an hour early.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

That might have been because of daylight savings time in my area. The clocks rolled back an hour.
Im not sure how. But it still would have reflected plainly on the webpage.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Just in case there is a doubt...is there any way I can copy my 'sent turn' file and post it so it shows I sent it in BEFORE 12:30 AM CST (lol, well 2 minutes before, but before):confused:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Daylight savings time rolled forward not rolled back 1 hour, and that could be the loss of the hour... but that still doesn't account for the fact that I actually SAW the time as 1:30 AM and then when I was setting it up noticed it had become 1 AM. This isn't a figment of my imagination. And Dr. P, if you where up watching it, you would have seen the same thing (unless of course it only happens in CST).

Now that I have p*#@*d off everyone, I will retire from this conversation as I have dona all I can to explain it to everyone.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

You can post the headers but that only says when you sent it. Not when it was received. There tends to be a fair difference in that on the net (in fact, internet rules allows for 5 hours). But I will accept the fact that you meant to send it minutes before hosting.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Players, Gandalf simply cannot fix the issues regarding the accuracy of the countdown timer as displayed on the nav_chk.cgi page to his satisfaction (the part that says "approximately x more hours").

When this became known, I warned players about relying on it and waiting till the last minute to submit turns, and left the countdown timer in as a courtesy, because without it everyone must do their own countdown math. But I did ask for a disclaimer, so Gandalf chose to put in the word "approximately".

So going forward, you have your choice of either

1. No countdown timer (you will all have do your own math as to how many hours to go)

2. Or keep the countdown timer and add a more descriptive warning and disclaimer to the effect "the countdown to the next host is approximate and not to be relied upon, it is provided as a courtesy, and the admins will not be held responsible for anyone who relies on it or stales because of it"

If I hear no responses, the countdown timer will be removed as it appears people are relying upon it despite the warnings that have been issued.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

OK at Septimius request the game has been rolled back.
the force timer is off. awaiting arcos

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Ah, you're right, daylight savings time.

It still hosted *five hours late* and you *didn't request an extension in a timely fashion*!

My team has already started to do our turns and may not have time to redo them, even and aside from my complaints about the timing. I've never been pleased about the rollbacks but this one is over the line, at least for me. I'm going to check with my team but I think we may have to bow out at this point.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I am inclined to agree with you DrP. Players had plenty of time with two extensions and were warned about the accuracy of the countdown timer. The countdown timer has been removed as a result and therefore cannot be used in the future as an excuse to claim server error or request a rollback. If all teams agree I am more than happy to call the game at this point (as an alternative to sequential concessions) and declare a winner based on preponderance in the score graphs. This must be agreed to by all team captains though.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Dr. P:

To be technical, last a recent previous turn, Septimus added hours because caelum hadn't had his turn in by hosting time. No one requested it- or complained when it happened.

In this particular case, I had previously advised Sept I would be travelling, and I asked for an extension - and sept granted it. Squirrel asked for an extension- and sept granted it.

So actually, yes, the extensions were properly requested.

As I showed in my previous post, the game posted an hour early. Forget all the talk about the countdown counter etc.

I will note that in fairly identical circumstances on 2-25 when two of your team members staled due to an early hosting you were all in favor of a redo.. and in fact politely insisted.

"I don't really think we can let this stale stand. The 3 stales are Sauromatia (yeah!), Niefelheim (boo!) and Caelum (double boo!).

I haven't looked at the turn, but it's 10 vs 4, and 2 of the 4 staleing vs. the scariest of the 10? It could be worse for us, but really..."

Despite the fact that it was advantageous for your team, I supported your request for a rollback. Additionally, on 12-07 your position was:

"We certainly cannot make exceptions based on specific tactical situations in order to be "more fair". Either don't do rollbacks at all (which works), or, if you do a rollback, for technical glitch reasons or whatever in the future, let everyone resubmit turns before the rollback goes through."

So it seems that your position changes according to whether it benefits your team.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I will try and make myself clear 1 more time...

I have to get up and train every day at 4 AM for 3 hours to play a game that lasts 80 minutes. I say this because I understand if we don't take the field at the appointed MINUTE, that game time is forfeit time. Car trouble doesn't count, family doesn't count, illness doesn't count.

Game time is forfeit time.

However, if the official would say "ya know the game is around a certain time and I'll make the decision based on how I feel so live with it," and you end up forfeiting a number of times,then you have to make a decision if all that training is worth it.

I could care less if you roll this turn back or not, whether Dr P and his team wins the game or not, or if I play in another one of these games or not. I was only trying to say I ACTUALLY saw the dang timer change and I set my alarm to account for the fact that it could change agian. I never asked for it to be rolled back, I was only (and rightfully) upset that I did everything I could do and it STILL made me stale and I let my team down.

And then was told that someone was watching the timer and it didn't change....Well, it DID change, and I am also tired Dr P of spending a good portion of the few hours I have free trying to get this turn in and not have a fixed deadline, so I understand your frustration.

Congrats to the winners!! Good game to the losers!!

Thanks Chris and Squirrel for teaching me a number of things I didn't know. Game over gentlemen

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Chris...clean out your in box please

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

That's true, I did take one rehost. When the game hosted I believe *6 hours* early, after we had requested an extension *days* ahead of time.

Your team requested an extension, what, 3 hours before the game hosted?

Anyway, I'm sympathetic with Grudge Bringer, but everyone else is also busy, and if we're going to do rollbacks all the time, then everyone else will be unable to meet deadlines.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I have one question then i will retire from this conversation...

Does it matter if you request an extension 2 days in advance or 2 seconds in advance...as long as the admin says yes?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Actually DrP, I requested attention to it (and an extension, before the previous turn was in, on Tues of last week, saying that I was going to be out Thursday - Sunday night, and wasn't sure I would be able to turn it in monday.

Bringing up timing is rather specious - as other requests -including some of your own - were also done with 2 hours notice. Check the thread.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

To answer Grudge's question. Generally, players should allow as much time as possible for the admin to act when making delay requests and should both post on the thread and PM. I have honored requests whenever I've been able to get to them, sometimes lucky enough to catch them at the 2 hour mark sometimes not, sometimes without both a PM and public post. Doing all I could to make sure as many players are as happy as possible. As DrP noted, many other people are busy and contrary to what may be thought, your admin has other things to do as well.

This rollback was one I regretted doing more than most (though I regretted all of them). Frankly I found the determined, unrelenting, insistence on a rollback for a single turn stale to be just going overboard (a hint as to the importance of Arco in ACGHHS strategy perhaps). It was authorized largely only due to the inaccurate countdown timer still being present without a full warning and disclaimer to accompany it (which was partly the fault of the admins) even with the warnings that were issued in the thread.

Arco seems to have staled a few times in the past, don't quite know why, so I am guessing this is why Chris felt the need for the extraordinary hoopla. The rollback was done using the old Arco .2h that was sent in after the server hosted to minimize any cheating attempt.

Gandalf's experiment at Dom3 PBEM hasn't turned out exactly the way we hoped (which is why direct connect will be used in the future) but I believe he and I have done our best to satisfy players, as it is ultimately your game people. I am not interested in who wins or loses, just that people submit turns on time, the game keeps moving, and people are enjoying themselves.

So captains you've got three choices:

1. Shall we just move on at this point (and put in a no rollbacks for the remainder of this game policy regardless of any server issue)

2. Should we reverse the rollback (which may be possible I still have the old 13 .2hs)

3. Or shall I call the game now and you will be forced to accept my ruling on the score graph analysis?

#3 will only take place if all agree. PM me your decision. Talk it over amongst yourselves and your teammates. Silence or indecision will result in #1 happening. If you find your team members are quitting it is best you choose option 3. Option 3 will also be pursued if I see mass stales without any agreement. Just to let ya know. These choices will be PM'ed to captains.

Good luck.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

"Undoing" the rollback only works if we still have the old homeland file, which will be needed if Pyg and Frank are to reuse the turns they already did. Generally I think that'll just lead to Chaos, although I can hardly complain.

Frank wants it called - Pyg and Illum have been making noises about calling the game for some time.

For future reference - am I the only one who likes VP accumulation? My suggestion for future team games would be:
* 2 VP in each team captain's capital
* 1 VP in each other player capital and in each AI capital (if there are any.)
* Things should be called after the late game has started but before it has dragged on forever; that is, about now. This'd be 50VP total for the team, I think, to claim victory.
* VP accumulation discourages turtling.
* No rollbacks, even if the server catches fire or the admin maliciously deletes .trn files. If you allow any rollbacks at all, you get rollback creep, where in the spirit of fairness you have the give rollbacks.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Sept,

Again, even if you had ignored the countdown timer, the game hosted an hour early (or two if you count DST).

Arco sent his turn in 1 minute after (according to Gandalf) the turn hosted. Or 59 minutes before it should have been due.

I don't see how anyone can regard rerolling to let a player get his turn in is 'unfair'. There is no preknowledge. I would think everyone would want players to get turns in as a matter of sportsmanship.

And yes, Arco staled a few recently; and when it became clear it was his mistake I dropped it. But when its *not* his fault, c'mon!

Going forward, I will play with whatever rules you want to set. But I think going forward with no rollbacks is a serious mistake.
There have been a number of issues with the server. What are we going to do if the game hosts with half the players unsubmitted?
Change the policy again?

I think the standard is and ought to remain that we do rollbacks on server error or serious bug.

As a suggestion, I think that if you think you might declare a winner in the future from the graphs, I suggest you determine the formula now so there is no argument or subjectivism.

You might base it on capitols, gems, or provinces. And I'd say you'd have to list what you consider a winning margin to be. So for example, if it were based on capitols - would having one more capitol be enough? Is having 10% more gem income enough.
I'd also suggest you *not* make it on income.

So to formally answer:
Yes, go forward. I don't see how using the first turn without arco is more 'fair' than using the turn with arco.

No, I think we should continue the policy rollback upon admin discretion.

And no, I think the game is interesting, hotly contested, with fun options for most players and with the number of players available on each team I think we should continue, finding players if necessary.

And as I was ninja'd by Dr. P somewhat, I am think using accumulated VP as he suggests is perfectly fine.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

DrP, I do have the old fatherlnd file and all the old turns and .2h's, if need be, I assume that is what you meant by homeland. Activating or using VP's? Never really felt the need, but I will consider it as a possibility.

One thing we instituted in one of the venerable NvV games was a moratorium on globals. I forgot about it this time. This allows teams to focus on regular tactics without major things hanging over them, evens out the experience level gaps (may not be as strongly pronounced in game 2), and gives teams an equal chance to make inroads before things like arcane nexus and astral corruption come on line. I am strongly considering it for say 50 or 75 turns.

Chris, I would have prefered a PM from you, but your post is sufficent. It is not strictly unfair that we allowed a staling player to resubmit, but as Gandalf noted (countdown timer aside) he did miss the mark by 1 minute. Gandalf has not said anything regarding any irregularities due to daylight savings time and the server. We simply cannot make it a regular practice to do rollbacks just because of that, there's a time limit and turns need to be in on time.

Regarding the score graphs (gotta love em) they make it easy for me to determine a winner without any VP's (why I like them in). Don't care whether people think they are flawed are not or don't tell the whole story. It will be noted that when the Mysterios came in against the Deva's back in the 30's, the Deva's were the leader in the majority of the categories. The Deva's then lost ground but have recovered somewhat. If I need to do a score graph analysis it will be like the first one I did. The leader in the majority of categories (not counting VPs) will be the winner. Plain and simple, like it or don't. No formula, no nonsense.

So I've got 1 vote, for option 1 (there will be a no rollback rule like it or not for the duration of the game, you deal with it or concede). I've got one vote for option 3, which is apparently nixed unless someone changes their mind.

2 votes still outstanding from Agema and Algae.

On a side note, I have a great deal of respect for Grudgebringer. A reliable sub, and a stand up player. Though perhaps not the most computer savvy (by own admission), if Grudge says a thing happened, I am inclined to believe it, but no one is questioning that, just wanted to say it.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Thank you...thats all I wanted....

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Personally I would probably just call it a draw if you quit. I'm not really up to date on how the game is going, but it seems like no one can quite manage to finish anyone else off (even yomi, which has been struggling for a long, long time).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Rdonj, the Mysterios and Blesseds at 2 nations each are basically out of the running (they'd likely not stand a chance against either ACGHHS or The Deva's). It is pretty much between the Deva's and ACGHHS at this point. If option 3 is selected, and I haven't looked at numbers yet, one of the two will likely be leading in the majority of categories. It will be noted that if the Deva's lose, it was largely due to the alliance of the 3 teams. Thanks for the input though.

Yes Grudge, no one is questioning your honesty. Just wanted that known.

Awaiting word from Algae and Agema.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

It's primarily an issue with timing.

Secondarily, I do feel a bit cheated - I tried a major gamble which worked, and then failed on the rehost. This is one reason I hate rehosts - I don't enjoy having a gamble work on the rehost but feel strongly cheated when it worked on the original and then fails on the retry. If the rehost were immediate that would be one thing, but with 24h to plan on followup, we have to redo not just the entire turn, but the strategic discussion that *followed* this most recent turn. So if we're going to play another turn we need to turn the timer off and I have no idea how long it's going to take us to figure out what to do next.

As for fairness: at this point in the game, time to do turns is the main issue. It's unfair to use the rehost *because we are busy* and because if you give people 101 hours to do their turns, they ought to be able to do them. Grudge bringer is not that much busier than the med students, HIV researchers etc. on my team, no offense, and we managed to get our turns in on the original deadline.

So -
* If we roll back the rehost, I've *done my turn already in the 24h it took for the rehost to go through* so we might as well keep playing.
* If we don't roll back the rehost, personally I'm willing to concede. We can call this a win for Chrispedersen et. al. as far as I'm concerned.
* Regardless, if we keep playing, my teammates and I are not interested in dealing with any rehosts at all any more. If we don't have a no-rehost policy (regardless of server glitches) we're done.

For the record, I don't accuse Grudgebringer of any dishonesty either.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Dr. P:

It wasn't a question of having the turns done, or not done. Grudge had his turn done more than 5 hours in advance.

Since we are separated by 19 hours of time zones, we were trying to get time for Squirrel to sign off - that everything was ok.

I specifically asked grudge to act as gatekeeper: to hold off on his turn till an hour before it was due. Despite the fact that it was due very late at night he agreed to do so.

Both he and I noted the timer, noted the time the turn was due - agreed when he was going to submit. Show me where the flaw is here!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Arrrrggghhh, LOOK, I only said what I had to do to emphasize that this isn't life, and while I am disappointed if I lose a game on here, it isn't like I just lost my dog or something.

I am a busy person, no busier than anyone else that has responsibilities, but busy. I don't run to my computer and see with great anticipation if the 'turn' came in so I can sit down and do it right then. Or for that matter talk 4 hours of strategy with my teammates, but that's just me.

I DO however manage to budget my time, and the couple of stales that I had before 1 was the timer (agian) and 1 was told to my team that I would be out of town playing.

I schedule my time so that when things settle down I can try and get my turn done, and honestly, this is usually towards the end of the time we have. MY problem with this is that there is no definitive time...its approximate, or around etc. Try working that schedule with your Med students and see where it gets you (about the same place it gets me with my employees I would suppose).

The timer failed...cut and dried, end of story. If you feel you got cheated, hell..re roll it agian until your happy with the outcome. SOMEONE is going to get the bad end of the stick, why should it be you. When I got in this thing, I got in it to learn from very good players that had been around a long time. Instead, it seems I blundered into a game that reputations are on the line, or egos are going to be hurt.

Yesterday, DrP and the boys where going to bow out, I was done, and Sept was going to use his ultimate wisdom to declare a winner.

Bad Blood is forming here guys, and it will last beyond this game if we are not careful. It is not that important to me who wins if I learn something I can use later.

JUST LET IT GO GUYS, the game is screwed and let Sept declare someone a winner. Me, I vote for the AI... the only one with no axe to grind.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Nah, Grudge isn't quitting. He's just hot headed = ).
Edit: Hmmm I may be wrong = )

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The flaw is that this is not how any of the other teams have done things and I don't think you should be allowed to request extra time for this.

I haven't "vetted" a single turn from any of my team-mates, I just advise them and let them do what they choose to do. Occasionally we look at each others turns but I don't think we've ever handed around .2h files.

They've made a couple of mistakes that I would've caught - also tried a few things that I wouldn't have thought of which worked - but I've been handling this as a team game, which means everyone does their own turn.

SO my revised position is this: I no longer have any sympathy for your supposed time constraints. You guys shouldn't have gotten the extension in the first place, b/c your violating the spirit of the game with your entire turn handling pipeline. This sort of thing is impossible to police, let us be clear that I'm not accusing you of cheating, but if this is your procedure for handling turns then you should be forced to fit it into the alotted timeframe or you should stale.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

3 votes received. No response from Agema.

2 votes for option 3.
1 vote for option 1.

All four captains must agree to option 3. This has not happened.

Option 1 it is. The game continues at least for now. Until all 4 captains agree to accept my ruling or teams concede.

A. The countdown timer has been removed.
B. The delay wording on the main post has been revised from 48 to 24. Request your delays in 24 hour intervals.
C. There will be NO more rollbacks for the remainder of the game, I don't care if the world explodes. :) A message to that effect will be posted in the opening post and I will instruct Gandalf to display it on the turns received page to make sure you DON'T forget it. If you don't agree, you may concede.

Now submit your turns, stale, or concede. Those are your options. I've been too indecisive this game (though I get accused of being dictatorial), my mistake. Lets have a nice fast moving, no nonsense, end to this game. I've still got a lot of work to do on NaV II, and I'd like to get to it.

(If you need more time for the current turn, please formally request it).

Good luck.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I think that we are conceding but give me time to poll my teammates.

I'm formally requesting that we turn off the host timer at least until we decide what to do next.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I'm not going to turn off the hosting timer. I will grant you a 24 hour extension? (I may grant another one afterwards). Do you want that? Speak up now or send me a PM and post when you decide.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Honestly, I have no idea what's going on anymore...

That said, the server has been remarkably buggy and this is no way to run a reasonable game. People need to be able to know and plan on when the turn is going to host. The way they do that is by an explicitly posted deadline - which we sort of have. Except then the timer does weird things, or it hosts before that time, or other weirdness occurs, so the posted time (as read at time X) isn't accurate half the time.

This is a huge issue. If people fail to get turns in despite submitting before what the posted time was, that is a problem.

Honestly, for non-llamaserver games (whose timer seems to be accurate), I vastly prefer what pashadawg does - sure, it requires hosting by hand, but it always hosts at the announced time and never early for any reason.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I'm not that familiar with Pasha's games, I assume by looking at the recent rand game that he manually hosts them himself on his own computer or something similar. Don't know how regular the schedule is or anything.

Automatic hosting as used on Llamasever or in Gandalf's server via direct connect seems to be fairly accurate and reliable. So that will not be an issue next game. Direct connect also actually facilitates team play more than PBEM, as a team can use a common password (or post their individual password on their forum) when creating their pretenders enabling the advisors, captains, and all team members to easily view and in some cases submit turns for all team members (the equivalent to what Chris is doing with his common team e-mail box). Direct connect should also result in faster and an in-game accurate timer. No files to move around, get lost, get confused, etc.

I am putting in a 24 hour delay on the current rolled back turn (the last turn in your inbox) to allow more time for decisions, submissions, concessions, etc, as per my last post above:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...postcount=1485
Lets get it on, or get it over with please.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Yes, we are conceding.

Well played, all!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Well, I wish you wouldn't Dr. P. Its been fun matching wits with you and your team. Whether its Phoenix pyring hinnom giants... stone sword weilding gargoyles, or seemingly endless hordes of Niefle jarls, you each played them to a T.

But, if thats the way its to be congratulations on a game well fought.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Thanks for playing everyone.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I learned a BUNCH of things I had never even thought about before!!!

One good thing that did come out of this game is that Sept now has a grasp on how he wants to handle turns and he won't face that problem agian.

It seems to me that the other team games where settled a lot quicker than this one was ( I subbed on the Noob side against Baalz and his minions). As this game went on it became more intricate than anything I have ever been involved in. I think everyone (lol, except maybe Chris as he thrives in this environment) was getting just a little burnt out as the game could hinge on EVERY turn, It takes it's toll.

I just want to say, in all honesty I respect AND admire all of you guys on all teams. You are all so much more knowledgeable than I am that I felt like I was running just to keep in sight of your dust.

I am certainly not mad at anyone, I just felt like I was getting blasted for getting my turn in at the last moment and the machine kept faulting and made me look more incompetent than I am/was.

Thanks for everything, I have no idea who won except me for all I learned!!:up:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Hats off to DrPraetorious and his team. I will look into VPs or just setting a possible final termination point though not sure VPs by themselves would have helped us much here in keeping things from grinding on. Seems both sides were struggling to make any lasting gains and few if any human capitals were taken. Did having having open diplomacy help or hurt in dragging things on? In this case, it probably saved ACGHHS, the Deva's clearly dominating without it. Neither the Blesseds nor the Mysterios really stood a chance without the ability to ally due to their collective inexperience versus Chris and DrP.

Unless I hear from the remaining three captains that they wish to play on, for perhaps learning purposes (as I don't believe what's left of the combined Blesseds and the Mysterios would be able to beat ACGHHS, though they might have fun trying) I will call the game and declare ACGHHS the winner. Exhaustion having settled in for many. PM to be sent for confirmation.

There should be no bad blood between anyone in any game for any reason. We are a tiny obscure community, ultimately all we have is each other. Corny but true.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

If there is interest in continuing on, I am willing.

I'm also willing to switch sides.. So for example if Squirrel wanted to captain Achoo and I take over Devas

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Correction to my above post. There should be no bad blood between players in any game except for instances of confirmed, deliberate, repeated, and willful cheating. Rare but such things do happen, although I don't believe this has been the case here and would not have significantly altered the outcome if it did occur, though attempts may have been made. I wasn't expecting the intensity of the rivalry between Chris and DrP. You would have thought their very lives depended upon it. Though I do believe Chris, the more "adamant" of the two. ;) Not that it is necessarily a bad thing.

So yes, if any captain and their crew, or any individual players wish to continue, you may do so. Provide me with the details and I can turn anyone AI. Let me know before this turn is up or for those of you who have become "mute", your turn submission may speak for you. As for myself, while I wouldn't mind steering my remaining forces into ACGHHS (I do so love attacking players) for the fun of it , I'd probably much rather concentrate on finishing up work on the next game and attempting to ensure that I can provide a much smoother experience for all. I've no doubt this will be the case.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

The way I read this Sept, you infer that there MAY have been attempts to cheat in this game.(see below) I think that is a pretty strong statement considering the gentlemen that played in this particular game. Being competitive is one thing...outright attempts at cheating is a completely different ballgame.

While I don't think this was directed at me (I don't have the knowledge to change anything), I do take offense at the statement in general unless you have more than speculation to back it up. The people who played in this game deserve a 'Hearty, well done' for fighting through all the problems, subs, and time taken to play it. It doesn't deserve a 'Dirty Death'.

My opinion of course:sick:


There should be no bad blood between players in any game except for instances of confirmed, deliberate, repeated, and willful cheating. Rare but such things do happen, although I don't believe this has been the case here and would not have significantly altered the outcome if it did occur, though attempts may have been made.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I wouldn't mind if you attacked Sept.. laughing in a way I know you've been looking forward to it.. but I don't want to do another turn unless we know we have a significant group that want to continue.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

I would rather stop if the Devas are withdrawing.

I'd like to congratulate Dr. P on a game well played. There was some intense back and forth combats there, i certainly had no reason to think we were coming out on top. (I'm sure the rest of his team played well too, but I mostly saw Niefl activity).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Running.
 

Nah Grudge, I was not inferring your team or anyone else cheated. Was just speculating. Certainly couldn't stop and can't tell if anyone looked at any new turns during rollbacks or not. I really can't guess what people have or have not done. Only the person knows. But as I said, don't think anyone here engaged in anything inappropriate (stuffing labs, etc). And I did everything I could to ensure a fair game and would not allow it to be any other way.

As for yourself, I've always said you were a reliable player, though I think you may have been a bit overburdened timewise with the number of games you were in and your outside commitments. Can't speak for others, but for me, my max is 2 games (especially team games), I don't usually have time for more.