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Re: MBT's
No worries Pat. I will do what I think is best based on the info I have when we do the final assembly then in a year or two everyone can tell me what's wrong based on documented hindsight that IS NOT currently available
IOW..... same as always Funny ( NOT ! ) story I "discovered" a bit of conflict between sabot penetration data we had for a particular round and info I found online so I went digging for more sources for info and the more I dug, the more the answers came back different 532mm @ 2000m 300mm @ 2000m 740mm @ 2000m all for the same APFSDS round at the same distance This is why I know no matter how hard we try to "get it right" and no matter how many sources of data we use there WILL ALWAYS BE DIFFERENCES and as a result, there will always be things someone thinks what we have is wrong |
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I hope everyone realizes that the picture of the LEOPARD 2A4 on the road with the ERA is an artist's rendering, right!?!
I just had a chance to read this ref. as earlier today someone had to get ready for work. I'm kind've getting a sense that the thought is it might be a real picture. From directly over the picture is this... "With modern graphic design software, even the concept images began appearing of how it might look in reality. Here, for example, is how one of the designers imagined a Leopard 2A4 covered in ERA modules." From directly under the picture is this... "Leopard 2A4 in full reactive armor / Rendered by unknown author" Now the next picture below the rendered one, looks real and if so, those ERA blocks look too small to be Kontact-5 in fact I'd be willing to bet that it's Kontact-1 The whole article is nothing more than an "abstract" of what some of the options are and not what it is now in any reality, yet. https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and..._was-6248.html (It makes for OK reading.) Should the LEOPARD 1A5/1A5-DK have ERA? Yes, it's an option but so is Applique Armor or a combination of both. And you can't rule out Ceramic Armor either of which the German LEOPARD 1A5 has an early version of made of a LEXON composite panels, which is why I made the changes to that tank in the last submission. We're getting ahead of ourselves here just a little bit.. The only way to resolve this quite frankly is to delay the release and see what "pans out" over the next two or three months. I realize though I'm the "lone voice in the woods" and that's OK. Anyway... Spain: First 6 of 10/or 11 LEOPARD 2A4 due to arrive sometime in the beginning of this month. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...rly_april.html Germany: Current list of German Armor being sent to the Ukraine updated to March 30, 2023. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...h_30_2023.html Getting more stuff... https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html DU AMMO 101: I DID SAY 101. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html Time for some sleep. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
Quote:
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As I have already said, whatever Andy and I do with the OOB data we will be hindsighted when better data is revealed and all we can do is go with what we have and what has gone on in the past and we know the Ukrainians like to put ERA onto their tanks and SO FAR we have one that appears to be workshop photo of ERA being put on a 2a4. What we have not seen is any photos of the tanks near the front and that will tell us more than handwringing over sketchy data. What I DO KNOW is I can put on and take off ERA on a vehicle in seconds and there is at least 3 weeks to get better info....... that no doubt will turn out to be half right |
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Peachy lol
Russia is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/s...68031491678208 |
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Ahem.......that was posted April 1 :D
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LMAO....Russia needs to give up on this war! It's lunacy for them to continue. Ukraine will win this war just from the extreme logistics in war material supplied to them continuously from Nato partners. Eventually Russia will not be able to sustain this war at rate of war material they are losing.
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I agree with Fastboat Tough. The update should be delayed maybe a few months so Andy & Don can get the most realistic equipment added into the next patch. Thanks for all they do!
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A "few months" will make little difference because a few months after that newer info will be available that will require adjustments. We could delay this 2 years and not get all the data we need. I am NOT going to sit on this waiting for all the info to come in because all the info will likely never be available or change a month or two after we release the delay
Also...... it's not like players who are interested in "accuracy" have to wait. We have put all the tools we use in every release and you can make all the changes and additions you want |
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Quote:
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/01/world...ntl/index.html Quote:
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Don,
I as well pointed out the second picture was probably real in the sense it's from the Ukraine... "Now the next picture below the rendered one, looks real and if so, those ERA blocks look too small to be Kontact-5 in fact I'd be willing to bet that it's Kontact-1" Now I know a little more about the ICON process-thank you! If the current timeline is 3 weeks, I'll be watching as I would anyway. We're for sure probably not to know about the LEOPARD 1A5 units until after the release but, as I've already stated a couple of posts ago "we just add the ERA" or something very close to this last. Moving on... My next is using "open source" data to track Russian tank loses of which I'm sure ORNX is one of them (Some of those pictures look very familiar to me-HMmmm.). They say they'll update this weekly with a "brief" bio of each tank. Tank loses (#) is next to the name of the tank. This is Week 1. https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra..._war_2022.html Poland has signed the agreement to produce the K2 export (K-2PL) tank, this obviously this will not happen overnight but will more than likely take 2-3 years to build and procure the manufacturing equipment. In the meantime, South Korea will be suppling I believe the first 200 tanks or so. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe..._k2_tanks.html I think this Thread is fairly caught up on. In my first Submission that was focused on the Russian captured tanks I had shown the original number captured when I was putting it together. Just before I posted it, I went back and reviewed the ORNX captured numbers. If there was a change, I updated the number to reflect that as follows from the submission...T-80BVM (32) +) , When the patch gets released and as part of my normal admin cycle when I "bounce" the submission list off the patch I will update those numbers to see what's changed since it was posted. It's a FREE SERVICE with "No Contract to Sign!!" :D Regards, Pat :capt: |
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@DRG,
Ok...You're the boss. I'm just looking forward to the update & anxiously waiting on it---:D. I say nothing but good things about this game & encourage other people to play it. The realism in this tactical war strategy game is unparalleled by any other. No other war game keeps me immersed like this one. I don't know of any other game that has the amount of dedication thru the years to keep it relevant as this one has had. Thanks for all that you & Andy do....:up:! |
Re: MBT's
Well, it looks like the first of that Heavy Armor is just starting to arrive in the Ukraine.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/l...ivered-to-kyiv Still sticking to my timeline ("Crystal Ball") and the reasons for it my from Post 1600. I would highly recommend you read the following. https://www.port.ac.uk/news-events-a...closer-to-nato https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/27/europ...-ml/index.html And yes, I did already. Regards, Pat :capt: |
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I hope the link will work below.
If NOT, the story is dealing with Australia conducting a test of their M1A1 tank rounds. "The 120mm KEW-A2 round is primarily used for anti-tank engagements at ranges out to 4000m. Its projectile is a tungsten penetrator that accelerates to a muzzle velocity of more than 6200 km/h. “Muzzle velocity should be of a specific rate that offers little margin for variation,” Sgt Mavall said. “We were looking to see whether there was any shift in that, and there wasn’t.” EDIT: The link worked; however, it took you to page the above was part of but also allowed full access to the rest of the paper. I think I better send them an email to see if I can post this fully for other than my personal use as I have a subscription. You gotta make sure they work. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
The following have been on the ORNX list from when I began Patch Post #1 which covered BOTH Russian tank issues as well as the Ukrainian captured Russian tank submissions.
I outlined that I wasn't going to add any Russian tanks where the Ukraine already had or have better versions. But unlike the T-62MV/T-62M which were the first to be addressed on that submission that needed to be fixed, I completely forgot to go back to address the Russian T-64A/T-64BV tanks. I just checked my notes and the above is right where I wrote down before my work started. :doh: So, the T-64 is fighting in the Ukraine. Second from your Post in the APC Thread I've not seen or heard of either side using a T-64 "APC". Third if you're wanting to make adjustments to the Russian T-64 I would draw your attention to the last of the type by END Date. T-64A UNIT 063 END 12/1984 T-64BV UNIT 838 END 12/2012. The following report for LAST KNOWN DATE IN EACH CATAGORY: T-64A 2 DESTROYED LAST ONE AUG. 21, 2022. T-64BV 40 DESTROYED JAN 23, 2023/4 DAMAGED FEB 23, 2023/2 ABANDONED JUL 4, 2022/5 CAPTURED JUL 7, 2022 (CLICK ON #5 NOTE WHAT APPEARS TO BE IMPROVISED SIDE SKIRT https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...equipment.html https://www.armyrecognition.com/ There were some reports to suggest they were withdrawn because as we know a T-64 is nothing more than a mobile "Roman Candle". Well so I was to be in the shower to get ready for the range instead it'll be back to the Dr. :sick: 1hr. of sleep and this is what I'm doing!?! I must really be :sick: :p I'd rather be shooting! :cool: Time "drag" my you know what into bed. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
I have extended the end date for both ......that said that list, If I read it correctly, does not differentiate "Russian" losses from the breakaway areas so these could ( maybe) be coming from there which means they started and ended in Ukraine because IIRC Russia had been shipping their old T-64's to the breakaway areas .
It's a moot point though if these are Russian stocks sent to Luhansk and Donetsk they are still "Russian" |
Re: MBT's
There is some info about Russian T-80UM2 Black Eagle which is a prototype and was destroyed in 2022 during fights.
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/cont...c2ae2ce7bf.jpg other model is T-80UE-1 which Russians have a battalion 40 tanks https://en.defence-ua.com/media/cont...c2b053dc6d.jpg https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...tail-6290.html Destruction of T-90 https://en.defence-ua.com/news/spect...ails-6313.html |
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There is a photo of an IS-3 on a flatcar.......:wave:
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/cont...b38a17dd9.jpeg |
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You have right not all this info propably are real :doh: that was a good point with IS-3 :D
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Well, your T-80UE1 does exist.
However, they seem to have only made a few of them. Whether or not they had enough for a Brigade "might be" a matter of conjecture. But I can provide the following. "Around 60 Russian T-80BV, T-80BVM, T-80UK, T-80UE1 and T-80U Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) have been visually confirmed captured during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine as of 26 June 2022, with some put to use by the [b]93rd Mechanized Brigade (In March they operated a mix of the T-80BV & T-80BVM. Going into the Fall of 2022 I'm sure I read they went to only the T-80BVM. My understanding is that the T-80BV tanks they had along with other captured ones went to another Brigade." http://<b>https://www.armyrecognitio..._army.html</b> "T-80UE1 is an upgraded version of the T-80U, fitted with a Plisa thermal sight and improved fire control system. This version was officially adopted by the Russian Army in 2005. Only a small number of these tanks were built. These tanks were used during 2022 invasion to Ukraine and some of them were lost." https://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80u.htm https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-russia...e-sumy-region/ (Stand-alone ref.) What say ORNX? 6 Total: 1 DESTROYED FEB 26, 2022 (Here ORNX declared this tank as destroyed. However, my Ref just above (Same picture but a different angle.) described this same tank as damaged. Both ORNX pictures. https://postimg.cc/TpZb0ptQ 5 Last Captured APR 30, 2022. https://i.postimg.cc/fb0m5nJQ/4388.jpg 1. From "THIRD" Patch Post #1/Page 1 it did not meet my requirement to Field 2 Platoons plus 1 Reserve or if you from the same "2+1". Ukraine operates with a "Light Platoon" w/4 tanks or "Heavy Platoon" with 6 tanks. 2. There is no upside to enter this tank when we have both the T-80BV and T-80BVM (Which in the submission was improved upon based on "newer" references.) Both these tanks are much better overall. 3. And the Russian OOB is tight though I requested deletion of about 2 T-90A tanks equipped with ARENA APS which that tank never had. We still have a "bit" to go yet. And I'm currently holding some info on that now for possible new equipment. 4. And this might be the most important "observation" of all. The gap between the 4th captured to the last above is about 5-6 weeks. And if that's not enough look at the gap from last captured to now, that's almost a year for any sighting no matted the "condition". That logically implies the rest were withdrawn or less likely destroyed. My first tank posted in this Thread, the BLACK EAGLE if it was in combat the whole world would've heard about it by now. This tank garnered a lot of attention at the time and the speculation by the West if we would have to fight it. Of course, this was followed by the vaunted T-95. Neither of the two saw the light of day. Regards, Pat :capt: |
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New vehicle concept dropped.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ronkainen...27192946688000 The ACT3205 RCV-H unmanned tank killer concept proposed by the US Army GVSC. ACT3205 features an automated 120mm cannon, a 650hp hybrid electric drive, hard-kill APS, and costs only one-sixth of M1A2 SEPv3 per unit. A C-17 aircraft can carry two ACT3205s and a control vehicle. https://i.imgur.com/a1bfNTw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/785mXuK.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mcPCHxk.jpg https://i.imgur.com/xxMN3C4.jpg Not ready now, but by 2030 I think this will happen. |
Re: MBT's
We did some work to bring these "Up to Speed" a few years back.
I have to do some rechecking but, I thought I read somewhere in the deluge of refs that the UK was going to supply these also besides this Crowd Funding effort. I don't think they've been used in combat since Iraq/Afghanistan now maybe in the Ukraine I'm just going to pull one item from the ref. "It holds the Guinness world record for the fastest production tank with its Diesel engine, recorded doing 82.23 km/h (51.10 mph) at the QinetiQ vehicle test track, Chertsey, Surrey, on 26 January 2002. (The original Jaguar engine enabled the vehicle to reach 100+ km/h!)." Irelands are apparently more powerful and reliable with a different engine. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe..._vehicles.html Also, the Scorpion FV101 CVRT is being brought up again from earlier posts I've seen. The last version the British Army operated was the SCORPION 3. All were retired in 1994. A couple of other countries still operate them. https://www.armyrecognition.com/unit...icle_data.html I'm going to see if SIPRI has released their 2022 arms transfer list yet, like us they've pushed back their normal release date as well. If I find something there, I'll post it. If not I'm sure, you'll figure out which 2 options prevented me from doing so. 0550 EDIT: SIPRI is updated through 2022. The above are not included when I checked Suppliers UK and Others (Which include Crowd Funding & similar.) and Recipient Ukraine. There is actually a Crowd Funded Equipment exchange shown. Back to bed for 4 more hours. :cool: Regards, Pat :capt: |
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https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...on_system.html
Russia to equip T-80BVM and T-90M tanks with Arena-M Active Protection System Funny......... we already have a T-80BVM with an active system from 2020...... I guess I'll change that T-90M in game has a passive system..... we'll just wait and see what happens with that.... |
Re: MBT's
I don't think you need to change anything on the T-80BVM.
Patch Post Thread PAGE 30/POST 298/SCROLL DOWN PAGE 4/T-80BVM UNIT 046/ These tanks per the refs below this entry represented the first 31 Production Models w/o AREANA due to costs at the time, which is why it was equipped with VIRSS. T-80BVM UNIT 046/From ref 1... "However in 2017 Russian MoD signed a contract to refurbish and upgrade a total of 62 T-80BV tanks to the T-80BVM standard in order to keep them in operational service. In 2018 a first batch of 31 T-80BV tanks was upgraded to the T-80BVM standard. These operational tanks were first publicly revealed during a military parade in 2018. However these initial tanks lacked some features of the T-80BVM demonstrator, that was revealed in 2017. Upgrade of the T-80BV tanks to the T-80BVM standard continued in 2019 when another 31 tanks were delivered (So they are saying 62 tanks built with VIRSS.). In 2020 a contract was signed to upgrade another 50+ T-80BV tanks to the new standard." (TASS ref below said 2019 on the Contract.) ("new standard" would mean UNIT 048 with ARENA.) Ref. 2... Under DESIGN. "Some elements of the T-80BVM prototype are missing (Refers to the 2017 demonstrator as noted elsewhere.), but could be added at a later stage. These include remote weapon system and active and passive protection systems." (This refers to the original 31 or as the the above suggests a total of 62.) Ref. 2... Under PROTECTION. "There are reports that Arena-M active protection system is to be fitted in the near future (UNIT 048) ." T-80BVM UNIT 048/The funding would become available in 2019 that allowed the Russian to fulfill the expectations from the 2017 Demonstrator built with it. They were added in late 2019 through at least 2020. My ref from submission... https://tass.com/defense/1098733?utm...apnelgames.com Now let's take it apart... Date: 12 DEC 2019, 08:08 Title: "Defense contractor completes delivery of upgraded T-80BVM tanks to Russian troops" As it relates to UNIT 046 with VIRSS not upgraded. Para 2: "The upgrade allows enhancing the vehicle’s basic combat properties: its firepower, defense capability, mobility and crew’s control." Continues. Last Para: "The T-80BVM is an upgraded version of the T-80BM tank. It features an improved 125mm cannon and an enhanced 1,250 hp gas turbine engine. A multi-channel gunner sight, a mechanic-driver’s vision device and an armament stabilizer are also mounted on the upgraded tank. The combat vehicle is reinforced with slat armor and a modular active protection system." Other than I submitted: https://www.army-technology.com/projects/t80/ Date: March 25, 2022 Last Para: T-80BVM The advanced T-80BVM version features 125mm cannons and an improved 1,250hp gas turbine engine. Reinforced with slat armour and a modular active protection system, the upgraded tank is mounted with a multi-channel gunner sight, a vision device for the mechanic driver, and an armament stabiliser. Then we have a math problem. First 31 built without AREANA but equipped with VIRSS. Now we go to ORNX. As of this writing they have verified thus far that 75 are in the Ukraine in all manner of condition (32 Captured.). Assuming the first 31 built with VIRSS were in the Ukraine that still leaves a difference of 44 tanks equipped with what? Answer: ARENA Here's the "rub" so below is your source. https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...on_system.html Let's start here... Para 2... "The modernization of various Russian tank models is progressing, despite concerns voiced by Ukrainian officials regarding Russia's ability to maintain its production capacity amidst numerous sanctions. According to these officials, Russia is currently producing several dozen tanks daily." (This is about economics the sanctions really didn't start to impact the Russian Govt. until about 3-4 months into them. The affects were pretty devastating when they did. Since then, what has happened Russian Gas and Oil. Well on Dec. 5th the EU Cap of $60.00 per barrel also Russian Oil to the EU via pipelines as the ban excludes some landlocked refineries in eastern Europe. EU is still buying at a reduced level. However, India has more than doubled their imports of Russian Oil and China is still their now #2 importer. And what happened at the beginning of this past week? Our friends in Saudi Arabia along with Russia agreed to both cut exports by 1.1 Barrels a day. https://www.reuters.com/markets/comm...ia-2022-10-12/ Business is about money and money is needed to fight wars. The next is the link from the army recognition article from above concerning the T-90M afterall by that article the T-90M is also going to get the AREANA. Well along with the T-80BVM UNIT 048 improved tank it's NOT TRUE here either. SAME WEBSITE Posted on 07 APRIL 2023 Lead Para cuts: "According to a statement released on April 13, 2020, by the Russian army press service, the first T-90M Proryv Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) have been delivered to the 1St Guards Tank Army of Western Military District deployed in five regions of Russia." "On January 12, 2023, the Russian State Defense company ROSTEC announced the delivery of a new undisclosed number of T-90M tanks to the Russian army." BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER ALSO THE IMPROVED T-80BVM ARE STILL IN PRODUCTION ALSO. This is what this ORIGNAL article is referring to. But just in case, back to the T-90M link from that article. Under: "Accessories" "Standard equipment (Therefore if it's Standard equipment" by any definition it CANNOT be an accessory.) of the T-90M Model 2017 Proryv-3 NBC protection, fire detection and suppression system, nose-mounted dozer blade and a deep fording kit. To increase the operational range of the T-90, two diesel fuel drums can be carried under the hull rear. A very unique feature of the T-90M is the wood log mounted on the right side of the hull which is normally mounted to the rear of the hull for all Russian combat vehicles which can be used to pull the tank free from the mud. The T-90M is also protected by soft- and hard-kill active protection systems (APS), which seems similar to the Afganit system installed on the T-14 Armata. According to Russian military experts, the T-90M is also fitted with a modern fire-control system providing tank-type target detection at a range of 5,000 m by day, an enhanced dual-axis gun stabilizer and an automatic target tracker that can operate in hunter-killer mode." Nowhere above does read will be added/could/can/might /option/is an accessory They're building new tanks which means they NEED MORE ARENA Systems for them is all. This that "They have just equipped the first U.S. XYZ Brigade at Ft. Hood with the ABRAMS SEP 4" that was pretty close to the actual article from last January early February 2023. Let's everyone be HONEST out here, some fair amount probably after reading that didn't go beyond the title or a couple of more sentences. Not too much further into that article, you would find they ONLY received the first (As in 1 tank.) M1A2D/SEP 4 for training and start of field operational evaluations. "The road is littered with they got. " And we have to FIX IT. And some of us are the "Garbage Trucks" that pick up the "they got" so the road will be clear for "they have fully equipped XYZ Brigade" and at the roads end at the following addresses 123 FOC near 456 Time to Submit in the TOWN OF PATCH located somewhere on the U.S. Canadian Border (So you'll need your Passport!?!) :D We just had this discussion, my work takes so long because of the way these articles are written I can't count the number of times Don, others and I have had to fix this and other similar situations over the years. They truly are barriers to our ability to get equipment that's already fielded by us or other countries. The ABRAMS of 2019/INDIA before that almost all their most recent tanks and all the Russian tanks for I don't remember how many foreign countries and some within. And finally, one of my favorites that just "popped up" again replacing all those USN A-4 SKYHAWK pictures that showed up in all those foreign operator countries, just in the last submission from Brazil. Just when I thought we got them all. :shock: Well, it's 0549 I'm wondering in my current :sick: condition how happy CINCLANTHOME will be when she asks, :laugh: "What time did you come to bed THIS MORNING?", as I cannot lie because this happens EVERYTIME I :laugh: it's true. So, we'll see if this exercise was worth or not. :dk: Time to discover/Time to Research/Time to Read/Time to gather evidence/Time to calculate/Time to Formulate/Time to Format/Time to Review/Time to Submit/Time to Discuss/Time to Answer Questions/Time to Defend-Not often/Time to know the "Boss" is happy (The Canadian one.)/Time to ask if all was worth it/Time to Reflect and in the have the.../Time to say it was/Time to appreciate the TEAM effort to get there all these many years and because of it all above.../Time to know the work paid of at 95% of EVERYTHING submitted over those years got in the game. These last two submissions got in at a 100% because of all the TIME above. Now it is TIME to get some sleep and recoup from this B] Bronchitis crap[/b] as I've just entered my 5th week of it and the good Dr. saying the lungs are clear but, there might be 2 weeks left to go. Lucky me! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
Pat......... use that "2 weeks left to go" to get healthy so take a break from the massive posts late at night.
OK ? Quote:
After wading through this three times this is what it distils down to that I can use ( I think... I might have to go through it again to see if I missed something.. ====================== I don't think you need to change anything on the T-80BVM. First 31 built without AREANA but equipped with VIRSS. Now we go to ORNX. As of this writing they have verified thus far that 75 are in the Ukraine in all manner of condition (32 Captured.). Assuming the first 31 built with VIRSS were in the Ukraine that still leaves a difference of 44 tanks equipped with what? Answer: ARENA ====================== .....and then you could have got a couple of hours extra sleep. Sleep is good. I know I don't get enough of it either Your word for the day is "Brevity" This is my fault if I had read the info I put into the game back when this was added I wouldn't have made the post that started all of this Quote:
Why you may ask......less than 6 hours sleep the night before and I was up at 4:30 am that day.... |
Re: MBT's
It's NOBODYS FAULT we're all tired which is why some may have noticed I started "breaking down" my refs lately.
It's as much for me as the rest of you. Not even Army Recognition posted stories on every Saturday before the War and on our Military Holidays (I guess because of our share of visits to the site possibly.) they didn't post on those days as well. Now they're working through the weekend as well. Brevity is a word I'm not known for it somehow goes against the grain of my makeup. Snap Decisions are easy for me but when you're underwater trying to navigate a Submarine at a "FLANK" Bell we were required to look down our "track" at least 4 hrs. ahead at any speed, all the time every day and be ready to provide recommendations for expected/or unexpected events that might come up. [/b] You never know when you might run into a KRAKEN out there and they are nasty creatures with plenty of attitude! :eek: We'll get through this. The "Yeomans" work is being done by Andy and you. I'm just happy with my small contribution to the game and I feel good that what I do is accepted as it is. Just a couple of "light" refs on T-80BVM production. The last 2 are from the Ukraine and what I found interesting was the "advice" they're giving Russia on what tanks they should build. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...sanctions.html https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/r..._lpr-4395.html https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...cted-4407.html I think we should end on a GOOD VIDEO what do think!?! Yeah, let's do it! Before and with some BREVITY it appears, the Russians are lacking in AT weapons. You'll understand when you watch this video with sound effects! https://www.newsweek.com/video-ukrai...-fight-1792777 (2nd video down.) I'm a Dog (Shes passed) and Turtle (He's Oscar @ 22 years old and keeps us amused.) person so I'm down for a "Turtle Nap." Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
With Norway's 8 LEO 2A4 tanks having arrived in Ukraine they should now be able to form 1 LEO MBT Battalion this would include the 16 LEO 2A6 tanks sent by Germany.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...nd_canada.html Well, the good news for the Ukraine is that they good neighbors to the East. An agreement has been made to start overhauls and modernization programs for the Ukrainian T-64 at a newly built tank factory in Poland. This will be a joint venture. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...overhauls.html I might as well post these as it ties into the and might offer some insight into who is repairing at least the Ukraine's Western equipment. https://balticword.com/lithuania-to-...s-for-ukraine/ https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-war-ho...ons/a-63215373 We haven't had news on the LEO 1A5 until now. The plan sounds like they think they can 80 them into the Ukraine before the Summer (We'll see.). It will be as we thought a mix of the German LEO 1A5/Danish LEO 1A5DK (Both of which have been modified and submitted in my last Part 2 submission.) Though I know I speculated on the following possibility I was still none the less surprised to see it mentioned. I figured they'd be used in an CS role or rearguard situations. The article is reporting this... "The first tanks are anticipated to be ready in the spring, intended for training Ukrainian forces." So, the keys are ("The first tanks ...") so yes, I feel they will fight at some level. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...he_summer.html Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
The Pentagon can get "highly" motivated when the situation warrants, and it looks like they might have found the "leak" of those classified documents.
If true and like someone else out here who dealt with "sensitive" materials all our military career might agree that this guy needs to make big rocks into little rocks and grind them down to dust for an eternity. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...d8d4e0db&ei=25 The data they "mine" from those servers are going to have some ramifications down the road. Hopefully this won't arise to the level of Walker who at the time and currently might've caused the worst damage to our military and in particular our Submarine Force. https://news.usni.org/2014/09/02/joh...ggest-betrayal I was serving on my first "boat" at the time-I really didn't appreciate how he potentially if "The balloon went up." might've cost me my life before we could get into the fight. A gamer(s) with this last potentially-go figure. :doh: Just be careful of your sources if it doesn't look right, it probably isn't. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
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Re: MBT's
Spain has just finished training their initial group of Ukrainian tankers on the LEO 2A4 with training lasting a month but for Spain they noted the crews and maintainers are experienced War surviving trainees.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...w_members.html I posted about a month back or so from Army Recognition an article which broke down the European status of all LEOPARD tank holdings. Everyone was pointing a finger at Germany about their contributions to the Ukraine. The next ref does a good job to address the many issues facing all the EU members with their LEOPARD tanks. The reason I submitted the German OOB tank I did (And it's very current in ALL it's capabilities.) is that everything newer is in the "pipeline" to be upgraded by degrees until they reach the final stages to be finished off in the end to be brought up to the 2A7V. If you look at the OOB you actually see this "transition" in place as was entered last year in the game. The tank situation in Germany is so bad, that to replace the 16 LEO 2A6 "older model" going to the Ukraine, Germany went to Switzerland to see if they would sale Germany some of their LEO 2A6 tanks. Well, that's not going to happen at this time or anytime soon. https://www.euro-defence.eu/2023/03/...tle-tanks-for-germany/#:~:text=German%20government%20has%20now%20request ed%20purchase%20of%20an,be%20taken%20over%20and%20 modernised%20by%20Rheinmetall%20company. Germany had also tried to improve the number of LEO 1A5 for the Ukraine in making an offer to buy Brazil's. Also, more recently they refused to also sell Germany any 105mm tank rounds as well. https://global.espreso.tv/brazil-rej...-ukraine-media Part of the tank refusal is based on the following that I've been tracking. https://militaryleak.com/2021/06/16/...d-1a5br-tanks/ Now back to the "deficient" issue... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/28/w...ine-tanks.html https://english.almayadeen.net/news/...eopard-tanks-t One last to tired to get it where it should go-sorry! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...7cacf350&ei=17 Getting better passed my weapons quals I live for another 6 months and do it again. Now you better understand my "crystal ball" operational time period for the European tanks etc. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
The first serves as a sort of "Checks and Balances" the Dutch contributions from Feb. '22 through Apr. 05, 2023.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html As I said would happen months ago is now in the publics "eye" we have a "new toy" to exam. First to bring home a point I've been making for quite some time now this... "According to information published by the British Intelligence Services, re-purposed captured Russian equipment and combat vehicles now makes up a large proportion of Ukraine's military hardware. Ukraine has likely captured at least 440 Russian main battle tanks, and around 650 other combat vehicles since the invasion." Now to the toy this article also speaks volumes to the whole export tank issue whether you like or not that's reality. EVERYTHING I've brought up concerning why countries won't send in their latest front-line tanks is discussed in Paras 4 and 5 BELOW Ref. . Surely you can read at least that much. Russia won't be happy about this but, they had to know the day was coming when they committed their best tanks in the war. But when you're a belligerent in war that's the risk. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ed_states.html Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
Well apparently, not everyone is sold on the K2 in Europe.
Norway now joins Hungry (And one other I can't remember right now.) in down selecting the LEOPARD 2A7 (EXPORT). The initial order will be for 54 tanks to be designated as the LEOPARD 2A7NO (Of course what else.) with the option for an additional 18 more units. Like with Hungry (They've only received the LEOPARD 2A4 training tanks.) there is NO TIMELINE set for delivery. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...h_sensors.html The good news I submitted the EXPORT LEOPARD 2A7/2A7V so we're tank ready to just "plug in and play" when we know something. If it wasn't for the war, I'd say we'd see these before games end. I think now it'll be "touch and go" but from my perspective building them wouldn't have been a wasted effort. TGIF! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
Info about new-old T-55/T-54 which reach a frontline and propably are already in combat units on Russian side. From article general conclusion is that this tanks aren't upgraded in any way just refurbished.
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries...mean-6394.html https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russia-dir...ks-to-ukraine/ T-55 are also used actively during coup d'etate in Sudan which started yesterday togeteher with technicals vehicles https://en.defence-ua.com/news/battl...ases-6407.html Leopard 1A5 former Danish are also nearly finishing completnes https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukrai...eeks-6404.html https://mil.in.ua/en/news/preparatio...ing-completed/ |
Re: MBT's
As promised without all the "BOLD" for the players. Thank You for not commenting on the Patch Thread as that's the "workshop" where things get done in a focused manner. As noted already both submissions have been vented.
Patch Post #1 for the 2022-2023 Campaign Page 2. A quick update, early this morning (Week ago almost.) and revisited the ORNX site since I looked into this last in November. Tanks that saw increases in captured tanks will be marked with a "+”. The Russian tanks that saw the largest “captured” increases by several were the T-72B3M (As to be corrected below.) and the T-80BV. Also, to update the T-90M stats now show 9 T-90M: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged) (3, damaged) (1, damaged and abandoned) (1, captured) (2, captured) as of today. Also, for current/future players should we consider something such (C), 22 or CAP to denote their captured status after their “name”? The (31) after the name by example, shows how many were captured (2+1) of each unit. The [BPVR” [/b] means Photo Video Range by dates. As discussed in Page 1 this will set my START dates unless I have better data. UKRAINE/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL TF 36/HEAT HF 35/TF 43/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL HS 10/HEAT HS 13/TS 21/TOP 6/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. //These tanks were I believe both designed and built in what was then Soviet occupied Ukraine. The Ukrainian tanks were "inherited" after the Soviet Empire collapsed. There are no differences between them. UKRAINE/ADD/T-62M (33) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 021/PVR MAR10-NOV13 2022/START/N0V 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 022. // UKRAINE/ADD T-62MV (8) +/COPY/RUSSIAN RIVISED UNIT 023/PVR APR10-NOV11 2022/START/NOV 2022. // The Ukraine just literally got rid of all their T-62 tanks except for the ones on display in museums and parks ~25 years ago. Though Ukrainian UNIT 022 was actually better in the T-62M1 BDD version which apparently Russia had as well. Also, it appears Russia will be bringing back a slightly modified version of the Russian T-62M1 BDD as part of 800 T-62 modernization Program to start later this year. ****** The question “hanging in the air” is do we add the T-62M1 BDD to the Russian OOB as copied from the Ukraine OOB as they had it? ****** https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...sian_army.html https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...91e1803f05bb9e https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-losses-report https://weaponsystems.net/system/634-T-62M http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t62.htm Page 3. RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72AV/UNIT 033/START/JAN 1988 VICE JAN 1985/PER REFS AT END. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B/UNIT 036/START JUN 1989 VICE JAN 1988/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992/PER REFS AT END. // Going with USA date. https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...ttle_Tank_(MBT) http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/MBT/t-72bm.htm (This ref. not updated since 2000. See very bottom of page.) UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B (65) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 036/PVR MAR20-NOV29 2022/START JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 033. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B1M/UNIT 045/RENAME/T-72B3/START/JAN 2013 VICE JAN 2012/ADD/ATGW 9M119 AT-11 SVIR OR 9M119M REFLEKKS/HAS APS ARENA/TI/GSR 40 VICE 45/MG 125mm 2A46M-5 VICE 125mm GUN 05. // One of few Russian tanks that can use more than one ATGW. TI/GSR changed to maintain separation with the T-72B3M as submitted below, that tank currently represents the "APEX” in T-72 design. However, I feel the rest of the FCS should remain unchanged. The Contract wasn’t signed until 2012 to begin the modernization program. By the end of 2013 a total of 270 units were produced. This tank as it stands compares "nicely” against the current [Russian T-73B3 UNIT 697. RUSSIA/DELETE/T-72B1M/UNIT 047/TANK DOES NOT EXIST/NOT NEEDED FOR T-73B3/ALL T-72B3 HAVE APS ARENA INSTALLED. // See MBT Post # 1459 for further. As a postscript to that post, what I just did above I had written down almost a week ago-listen to that inner voice. Also due to that post, RUSSIAN/T-72BM/UNIT 037/I’VE LEFT IT UNCHANGED. https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3 https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...act_sheet.html UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3 (83) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 045/PVR MAR07-DEC01 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 042 & 043. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B3/UNIT 697/RENAME/T-72B3M. // As discussed in the MBT Thread, I unintentionally named this tank incorrectly when submitted during the 2013/2014 Patch Campaign. UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3M (100) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 697/PVR MAR02-DEC28 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 061 & 063. // https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3 https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b4.htm ******ORNX would report that there are currently 102 T-72 variants which they haven’t been able to classify with 80 Destroyed/16 Damaged/1 Damaged & Abandoned and 5 Captured. I call this journalistic “integrity”. ****** Page 4 RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BV/UNIT 040/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992. // This tank is very much still in service. Also, it’s confirmed that to date 199 been destroyed, damaged, and abandoned with 77 captured by Ukraine. However newer pictures seem to show it with Kontakt-5 ERA package. https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...res_video.html https://weaponsystems.net/system/832-T-80BV http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 046/FC 45 VICE 50/STABILIZER 5 VICE 6 .//Earlier models had a passive defensive system VRISS per refs. ALSO “In 2018 a first batch of 31 T-80BV tanks was upgraded to the T-80BVM standard. These operational tanks were first publicly revealed during a military parade in 2018. However, these initial tanks lacked some features of the T-80BVM demonstrator that was revealed in 2017.” In 2019 31 T-80BV tanks were too be updated to the modernized version of the T-80BVM based on the above mentioned 2017 demonstrator. That would be UNIT 048 below. http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80bvm.htm https://weaponsystems.net/system/835-T-80BVM RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 048/ START/JAN 2020 VICE OCT 2018/TI/GSR 45 VICE 40/SURVIABILITY 5 VICE 4/ADD/ARENA APS SYSTEM//. Upon review of the ORNX pictures where the turrets aren’t too badly damaged, they are ALL clearly showing me the mast used for the ARENA APS. There’s only 2 trains of thought here 1. All got the ARENA APS installed SINCE 2020. 2. Russia ONLY committed those tanks with the ARENA APS to the war while the T-80BVM not equipped are “elsewhere”. At this time I feel we should leave BOTH these tanks in and go with thought #2 as there is no evidence to the contrary. https://tass.com/defense/1098733 UKRAINE/ADD/T-80BVM (32) +)/COPY/REVISED RUSSIAN UNIT 048/PVR MAR04-DEC22 2022/START/AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 046. // RUSSIA/DELETE/T-90A/UNIT 052/PER REFS T-90A ONLY EQUIPPED WITH SHORTORA-1 VIRSS SYSTEM.// “T-90A also has a laser warning system and an aerosol-generating system that uses 3D17 grenades of 902A Tucha (Cloud) designation.” UKRAINE/ADD/T-90A (12) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 051/ERA/VERFY KONTAKT-5/ERA NUMBERS LOOK HIGH FOR IT/PVR FEB27-SEP30/START/JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 064. // https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ical_data.html http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...er-syria-53907 ******ORNX would report that there are currently 180 Unknown tank: Variants (Mine-Based on placement on the list, I’ll assume these cover all T-80 and T-90 types.) which they haven’t been able to classify with 165 Destroyed/10 Damaged/3 Damaged & Abandoned and 2 Abandoned. I call this again journalistic “integrity”. ****** Page 5 Russian Captured APCs UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-82A (122)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 700/PVR FEB28 2022-JAN02 2023/START/JUN 2022. // The advantages should be obvious for the Ukrainians here the armor is heavier than most of their wheeled APC’s and I don’t believe they have any APC type with a TI/GSR 50. https://postlmg.cc/xqKNpbWM (This was a little unusual from ALL the pictures I looked at as it came with a story.) https://weaponsystems.net/system/123-BTR-82 https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...l_Carrier_(APC) https://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_82.htm UKRAINE/ADD/BMD-4M (11)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 668 (or 341)/PVR MAR-APR 2022/START/MAY 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 333 & 345. //Heavier weapons package against both. As compared to Peer Unit 333 its better protected. Against Peer Unit 345 its FCS is almost superior. http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd_4m.htm https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html ****** ORNX Reports Infantry Fighting Vehicles (1912, of which destroyed: 1210, damaged: 46, abandoned: 77, captured: 577) ****** UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-80A (61)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 211/PVR MAR04-DEC06 2022/START/AUG 2022 /NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 307. // Again this unit is better than its Ukrainian counterpart with its weapons configuration and heavier armor by offering a HEAT package. https://weaponsystems.net/system/122-BTR-80A https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...icle_data.html http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_80a.htm ****** ORNX Reports Armoured Personnel Carriers (289, of which destroyed: 177, damaged: 5, abandoned: 12, captured: 95) ****** This concludes my Ukrainian capture list of Russian armor. ODDS AND ENDS UKRAINE/ADD/T-55S/ORIGIN/SLOVINIA/NO OOB/NEW BUILD/START JAN 2022/END DEC 2025/CREW 4/CARRY 0/SPEED 50 km/h/SWIM 0/EW 4 VRISS/RADIO 90/VISION TI/GSR 40/MG/105mm RO L7/RDS 36 (+UK SUPPLIED)/COAX 7.62mm/RDS 2800/ROOF 12.7mm (KORD?)/RDS 250 READY/NO ATGW/FC 45/LRF 22/STABILISER 4 OR 5/SURVIVABILITY 5/ NOTE: FCS HAS HUNTER KILLER FULL CAPIBILTY/NOTE: TO ASSIST IN NEXT VALUES USED UKRAINIAN UNITS 014 & 073 BASELINE/STEEL HF 50 HS 12 HR 6 TF 50 TS 18 TOP 10/HEAT 55 HS 15 HR 8/10 TF 55 TS 18 TOP 10/NOTE: THE CLOSEST MATCH IN TIME AND HAVING THE SUPER BLAZER ERA IS GB UNIT 062 CHALLENGER TES/ERA HF 15 HS 15 HR 4 TF 15 TS 15 TOP 10/UKRAINIAN SLAT ARMOR ON TANK REAR AREA see Ref 4/ROF 6.//I accept some of the above might change but I’ve done the best I can with the very limited information out there. The SUPER BLAZER ERA is (Page 6) stout even by today’s standards unsure what ERA Ukraine added or where. But you normally don’t go backwards. SP and SPAA Developments Tread Post #240 https://militaryleak.com/2022/09/21/...ks-to-ukraine/ https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/th...-armed-forces/ http://www.army-guide.com/eng/produc...of%20the%20jet. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ks/ar-AA15WpCv (This ref justifies START/UNIT IN TRAINING/Lead picture shows rear SLAT ARMOR “The new photos reveal recent additions to the M-55Ss: explosive reactive armor and slat armor on the hulls.”) USMC/CHANGE/ALL FEP-T/UNITS 846, 847, 848, 849, 851 & 852/REMOVE CIWS TROPHY APS. // There were only 2-5 USMC M1A1 tanks involved in a joint test with the USA involving the “Proof of Concept” to determine the feasibility and testing of the TROPHY APS and to address any compatibility issues in mating our systems to it. The tests were successful HOWEVER the USMC was already in the beginning stages of PLAN 2030 which as we know now had the tanks near or at the top of the list to remove. The USA proceeded onward and in a manner of speaking so did the USMC in preparing to send their tanks back to the USA and “Sun setting” all their armor and maintenace support units. As you will see below the “timeline” doesn't support APS. https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us...-for-m1-tanks/ https://armyrecognition.com/april_20..._21504162.html 15 October 2019… https://www.joint-forces.com/defence...y-aps-delivery 24 March 2020… https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...e-corps-tanks/ (Note front of the turret. No APS Sensor.) 21 JULY 2020… https://www.businessinsider.com/mari...talions-2020-7 (Note the caption of top picture and turret as well.) 06 DEC 2020… https://news.yahoo.com/tank-marines-...131331371.html (Original Military.com article. Note picture same as above.) 08 January 2021… https://www.defenceprocurementintern...d-leonardo-drs I was going to do a little more here, but as my “Marine Buddy” knows I’ve been sitting on this for about 3 years now. Why now well assuming Andy and Don are still willing, it won’t be long before we’ll be “sun setting” ourselves. IF all goes well, you have to remember after this Patch, there’ll ONLY AT BEST THREE LEFT the FINAL one WITH Andy, Don and GOD willing WILL BE THE 2025-2026 Campaign (And besides Don, I know a special handful of others understand why I’ve called it a CAMPAIGN all these years.) Lastly, I want to THANK Suhiir for trusting me after discussing it, to allow to build those tanks initially and some other things she ALLOWED me to do in her OOB (Don’t kid yourselves, it’s hers alright!) of course, there was a downside because we ended up having to redo to some extent almost every ABRAMS in the game in the 2019/2020 Campaign. Regards, Pat :capt: Another Day for Part 2, on my day off and I'm dealing with a work-related time sensitive issue that needs my attention. Retirement anyone!?! Can't wait. |
Re: MBT's
Pat, is there anything info in the post above I have not already been given?
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Re: MBT's
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As we discussed the USMC never had enough TROPHY systems to outfit all their tanks. But did (usually) mount them on those assigned to MEUs or deployed overseas. So for the sake of "probable" vice "possible" I didn't bother with a non-TROPHY variant. The same pretty much applies here. PLAN 2030 was implemented when there was no USMC armor deployed anywhere, except the currently active MEUs (i.e. all of four (4) tanks per MEU). So if you saw a tank in actual combat it probably had TROPHY. Any "what if" scenario or Player vs AI/player battle should, in my opinion, be based on "probable' vice "possible'. Thus the TROPHY systems stay in place. Besides which creating units/formations/picklists to model 2-years of the 80-year period WinSPMBT covers (all of 2.5% of the 80-years) is FAR more trouble then it's worth. Had it been say 8-years that would be a different story :smirk: |
Re: MBT's
As I had even in years past, it's always been my posted intention to repost from the "Patch Thread" the items submitted to their respective equipment threads so the players can comment as they wish once all the issues have been hashed out between us.
Just haven't always done it is all. Except for the FLW 200 issue we discussed in advance to me posting it we're done. To FEP, yes, we discussed maintaining the non-TROPHY FEP tanks due to an opening created by a couple of articles talking about tanks in pre-deployment locations and that was being generous at best on our part. You and I even posted on the fact that we saw no TROPHY SYSTEMS mounted on any USMC tanks being shipped back to the Army. Would you like for me to find it?? But you along with a small handful of others SHOULD know if TROPHY APS mounted on those tanks than when I built them they would've been submitted as such. So, I leave you with the following and the understanding I have plenty more if needed. From 25 September 2020... https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...oes-that-mean/ "The U.S. Marine Corps Were (Mine-WERE) Upgrading their M1A1s According to Marine Times, the Marine Corps were (Mine-WERE again) in the process of upgrading their M1A1s with: A slew-to-cue feature that allows the Tank Commander to move the 120mm main gun to where the Commander’s .50cal heavy machine gun is pointed to. Improved Gunner’s Primary Sight Day and thermal cameras that allows for better resolution and to see further out. A new color camera and color display that allows for better color differentiation than the previous green and black color camera and display. A new Gunner’s lower panel that allows the M1A1s to use two new types of ammunition developed by the U.S. Army. New tactical communications radios." And no TROPHY mentioned. This upgrade boils down to they would've had improved TI/GSR and Ammo that's all. I actually was tracking on this since the FEP tanks lead me down the "rabbit hole" that lead to all things ABRAMS during the 2019/2020 Oh I don't miss it Campaign as I'm sure Don doesn't miss it either. But in the end the CORPS shut me down. That I'll have to "cull" from the MBT Thread and reverse it into well you know where. TROPHY has me all fired up now. So, here's the timeline from the Contract section... :rolleyes: "July 21/20: Active Protection System-Trophy General Dynamic Land Systems won a $44.4 million contract modification external link to procure improved fire control electronics units in support of the Abrams expedited active protection system-trophy. M1A1/2 Abrams main battle tank is manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS). The first M1 tank was produced in 1978, the M1A1 in 1985 and the M1A2 in 1986. Army and Marine units intend to use Trophy APS-equipped Abrams main battle tanks to disrupt/destroy certain classes of enemy fire while safely maneuvering across the full range of military operations. Work will take place in Tallahassee, Florida. Estimated completion date is October 1, 2022. https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...updated-02834/" Now here's the inconvenient truth to go with the above this reference looks at the progress made up to April 2021... "After the March 2020 release of Force Design 2030, Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. David Berger today released an annual update to the document that lays out the progress already made and the steps still to come, as the service continues to learn more about what it will need to deter evolving threats in the Pacific and around the globe." Scroll down to Page 4 Ground Combat Element "Bullet 6" "Completed the divestment of 2 AC (Mine-Active Component) and 1 RC (Mine-Reserve Component) tank battalions." That's all your tanks gone in one year! And no one can say this "squares" with the DID ref above that the USMC had non-test bed/operational tanks equipped with TROPHY. Not even "Father Time" can change that timeline. https://news.usni.org/2021/04/26/mar...n-in-the-field https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...esign-2030.pdf (Page 4 Bullet 6) Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
Neither the MPF (Mobile Protected Firepower Light Tank) nor ARV (Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle) are in the active OOB since they're both "possible" not "probable" nor is there any indication of when they might be employed.
However you'll see the new OOB does have the new mini-drone (thanks to Don and Andy) incorporated into it. "Much the way the service says every Marine is a rifleman, every Marine is now a sensor, and every system they use must be able to sense and pass that data to whoever needs it most, Smith said." Not near as many as Force Design 2030 will have (one per infantry squad, the main reason for the new 15-man squad) but one per platoon (more then enough for game purposes). The AI won't be terribly effective using these, but a human will have little trouble seeing what's where across the entire battlefield. Talk about a Gods Eye view! "Infantry battalion experimentation is still early in the process, Watson said, but the plan is to increase the rank structure in some of the small units and compare their performance against traditionally manned units. Part of the need for more experience is driven by an 'arms room' concept, where instead of each Marine specializing in a particular weapon system, and having separate weapons company to bring in further capability, the infantry Marines would be a little more well rounded and able to operate whichever weapon the situation calls for. We seek to enhance the infantry battalion’s capabilities by adding organic multi-domain sensing (Operations in the Information Environment, Electronic Warfare, and Unmanned Aircraft Systems) capabilities, organic loitering munitions, and increased mobility. One of the changes being evaluated is a shift to an ‘arms room’ concept with the elimination of Weapons Company and the shift of weapons systems formerly associated with Weapons Company, 81mm mortars and the Javelin for example, into the headquarters or rifle companies. This will allow the rifle company to select mission-specific lethality and employ it organically, reads the Force Design annual update." Where they're going to get all these senior NCOs if they're having trouble with recruiting and retention is beyond me. And the cost of training and maintaining such a force structure will be immense!!! One Javelin missile costs $197,884 and they want to move them from specialized units down to the company level?!? Without getting into it here I still think the current Commandant has bought into the US Air Force delusion of push button warfare. |
Re: MBT's
Fear not my Marine Buddy, I know where those Senior NCOs can be found.
Starship Troopers that's where they are!!!! https://www.spacecom.mil/Newsroom/Ne...ice-component/ And I have the evidence and I believe we should qualify, and I have my security clearance as well and you'll just need to get adjudicated. I think we should go in on the "Buddy System"!?! :cool: First we have to apply... https://www.marines.mil/News/Message...itute-courses/ Next, we'll train unfortunately that'll be under the USA... https://taskandpurpose.com/news/mari...space-marines/ Finally, we'll get advanced combat training with our units under simulated real combat situations though the very high "wash out rate" seems somewhat of what might be of a permanent nature but, I'm confident we'll get through. A friend of mine told of a "black site" that has a secretly video sourced film of the USMC Space Command Advanced Training Center Course (USCATC) at what appears to be 29 Palms Training Center. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?&...6EF&ajaxhist=0 We just need to :fire: get sum :fire:!! I can't wait until we get our very own embroidered USCATC ball cap!!!! That's better than working at NASA! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
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I do however think we both "might" need an age waver. Quote:
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Re: MBT's
US to begin training Ukrainian troops on Abrams tank
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...anks-rcna80799 Quote:
So training starts mid June and lasts 10 weeks and that brings just basic training to the beginning of September and then there is additional training.... then they have to actually get the tanks. Going to go with 11/123 start and let reality make adjustments later |
Re: MBT's
Quote:
We have assembled SPWW2 and are doing our final checks. Then we will start assembling MBT. The start date now for the T-14 Armata was pushed back to the middle of 2025 based on the info available up until today...... If anyone finds anything else on this let us know ASAP please |
Re: MBT's
The following is reporting they are "tooling around" in former Ukrainian territory. Also, these are their OP Test units.
"According to the Russian Press Agency RIA, the T-14 Armata tanks have been equipped with additional armor on their sides (That indicates the T-14 isn't such a "vaunted" tank as previously thought.) , and their crews have undergone "combat coordination" exercises at training facilities within Ukraine." Nothing here about combat at this point. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...n_ukraine.html JANE'S reporting anything at this time. Work! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
It would appear that they are doing front-line testing perhaps using them as SP arty which is possible and certainly one way to test systems
There will NO DOUBT be new info within a week of release but that will be true every week until this is over so the start date in the game for the T-14 is 4/123 and players can make up their own minds to use them or not |
Re: MBT's
Russian also publicize a alleged short few secounds movie of T-14 from front-line here:
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russia-cla...ed-in-ukraine/ https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...aine-6509.html |
Re: MBT's
No more changes will be made to the OOB's this year and the installers are built. The last thing I did with MBT was change was the T-14 start date so time will tell what we guessed right or wrong. One thing I guessed was Ukraine will be putting ERA onto it's western Tanks...time will tell if that is correct.
The updates for both games should be hopefully posted within the next week |
Re: MBT's
Well the one item that was "up in the air" was Frances contrbution this was actually announced as settled by the same a few days back.
I'm sorry I couldn't get it posted in time, but we have closure on it now for the next time. The Union asked for my assistance to formalize items for our CBA as we're in a contract year. Not in the union but knew I had some experience in these matters and it ended up being a bigger project then I thought. Again, my apologies. All tanks delivered or about to be as of today. Slovenia also I believe "fell through the cracks" with M-84. https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...delivered.html Leave everything as is since we knew we'd have to make "adjustments" later. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
I feel sorry for the Ukrainian maintenance people.
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Re: MBT's
Anyone who really wants them can make the "adjustment" themselves when the update is released in a day or two and activate Ukraine unit 24 whenever/ IF ever they actually arrive.
I am NOT rebuilding two installers again for what reads as indefinite speculation and then guessing when or if they might/maybe make it to the front What's in there now is what's in there now and only finding a massive error will get them rebuilt again |
Re: MBT's
After reading the following, I'm feeling much better about my LEOPARD 1A5DK submission in terms of the modifications made.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...y_denmark.html "These include upgraded armor protection, improved suspension and tracks, and a new fire control system." The above also gives us a first look at the early "refurbished" tanks and would appear that they've thus far done a commendable job so far. The "training" tanks from what I can piece together should represent somewhere around the first 15 to 20 tanks at this time. At that pace and the fact, they probably were in better shape (As already addressed some might need deep overhauls to include the complete replacement of the power plants (Again as I already brought up, how can you NOT turn over your engines for over 10 years!?! :doh:) I still feel it'll be sometime this Fall before they become operational from refurbishment and combined arms training such as the T-55S went through from Nov. 22 - late Mar. 2023. And again for the last time for these posts and equipment issues it is FULLY understood that we might have to make date changes "down the road" as we can't control the supply (Overall in a broad sense.) and training afterwards type issues. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: MBT's
...and by then we'll know if the Ukrainians did add ERA to the NATO supplied tanks and hopefully what type was used if they did
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