Re: MBT's
 

From your article Dated May 2018 (1st ref.) page 34 lower left...
https://www.mca-marines.org/wp-conte...ive-System.pdf

"The Marine Corps is currently testing the Trophy APS on
the M1A1 Main Battle Tank (MBT) in order to fill this capability gap for the tank and explore APS issues in general for all ground combat vehicles."

"In FY18–19, the Marine Corps will continue to improve the
integration design and procure up to nine systems for continued testing, TTP development, experimentation, system optimization, and integration into the GCE."

"The Marine Corps currently plans to procure a total of 56 APS special mission kits, capable of outfitting four Marine Corps tank companies."

So, FY 18-19 means OCT 2017 - Sep 2019.

The writing on the wall from the [b]Marine Corps Commandant Jul. 17th, 2019 and note the date compared to the above.

https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Pu...-17-090732-937

From Page 2.

"FORCE DESIGN
We should take pride in our force and recent operational
successes, but the current force is not organized, trained,
or equipped to support the naval force – operating in
contested maritime spaces, facilitating sea control, or
executing distributed maritime operations. We must
change. We must divest of legacy capabilities that
do not meet our future requirements, regardless of
their past operational efficacy. There is no piece of
equipment or major defense acquisition program that
defines us – not the AAV, ACV, LAV, M1A1, M777, AH-1,
F/A-18, F-35, or any other program. Likewise, we are
not defined by any particular organizing construct – the
Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) cannot be our
only solution for all crises. Instead, we are defined by
our collective character as Marines and by fulfilling our
Service roles and functions prescribed by Congress."

"Force design is my number one priority. I have already
initiated, and am personally leading, a future force design
effort. Going forward, CD&I will be the only organization
authorized to publish force development guidance on
my behalf. We will divest of legacy defense programs
and force structure that support legacy capabilities.
If provided the opportunity to secure additional
modernization dollars in exchange for force structure,
I am prepared to do so. Plans or programs developed in
support of this planning guidance that require additional
resources must include an accompanying resource offset
verified by a recognized analytic body (PA&E, OAD,
etc.) to be considered for implementation."

I hope the reader is tracking these dates.

By the Spring of 2020 Marine Corps tanks were starting to head to Army Depots for further modernization to meet the Army's goals for SEP 3 conversion. However, as we now know the Army is cutting production of the SEP 3 and have killed the M1A2C Program this past Summer as I've posted.

Operational Requirements changed.

2020 Summer of discontent.

Picture caption...
"U.S. Marine Corps M1A1 Abrams tanks with 2nd Tank Battalion, 2nd Marine Division are staged in a lot on Camp Lejeune, N.C., July 27, 2020. After serving 2nd MARDIV for more than three-quarters of a century, 2nd Tank Battalion will deactivate as part of the Marine Corps' modernization plan. (Patrick King/U.S. Marine Corps)"
https://www.stripes.com/branches/mar...m1a1s-1.639355

I recommend the reader strongly take a good look at the turrets and see what's missing.

Picture Caption...
"Marines with 1st Tank Battalion pose for a photograph in front of the last tank assigned to 1st Tank Battalion before its departure at Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center Twentynine Palms, California, July 6, 2020. As part of Force Design 2030, tanks are being divested from the Marine Corps in an effort to accelerate modernization and realign capabilities, units and personnel to higher priority areas. (Courtney White/U.S. Marine Corps)"
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...sion-ends.html

Something is missing off this West Coast tank as well!!

To Clarify and makes things easy Camp Lejune N.C. WAS "tank East coast" for the USMC, while Camp Pendelton CA. was "tank West coast".

Interview with the same USMC Commandant in September 22-24 Modern Day Marine (MDM) Expo 2020

Picture Caption...
"Marine Corps Logistics Base Barstow, June 7, 2020. RailOps transports divested tanks and other heavy equipment from the USMC to the U.S. Army. Photo by Sgt. Jack Adamyk"
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...oes-that-mean/

Something is still missing!?!

Para 3
"According to GDLS’s virtual Modern Day Marine Expo Booth, the first 66.68-ton M1A2 SEPv3s were delivered to U.S. Army’s III Corps based at Fort Hood, Texas, in 2020. The U.S. Marine Corps does not possess any M1A2s and operated the lighter and older M1A1 Abrams versions devoid of the M1A2’s 360-degree rotating Commander’s Independent Therman Viewer (CITV located to the front left of the turret) and the latest Depleted Uranium composite armor package on the front turret. Four M1A1 MBTs often are deployed with each Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) and these four tanks provide the heavy armor and firepower of the MEU aboard Amphibious ships."

Directly below ...

"The U.S. Army’s M1A2 SEPv3 is enhanced with these features:

Lethality: A Low-profile .50cal CROWS II Remote Weapons Station for the Tank Commander. New digital crew display panels and electronics. New datalink for programmable ammunition.

Survivability: Increased armor plates welded on the front turret and hull to balance the optional add-on Tank Urban Survivability Kit (TUSK) I and II armor packages and the Trophy Active Protection System (APS). Upgraded underbelly armor against blasts.

Range: Under-armor diesel APU for enhanced range and electrical power with reduced signature when at idle.

Power: Upgraded and greater electrical power distributed through the turret ring.

C4ISR: Multiple Command and Control C4ISR upgrades to improve situational awareness and Joint Forces’ cooperation.
M1A2 SEPv3’s unique external features: Enlarged frontal tow hooks (green in top photo) and rear track mudflaps.

The U.S. Marine Corps Were Upgrading their M1A1s
According to MarineTimes, the Marine Corps were in the process of upgrading their M1A1s with:

A slew-to-cue feature that allows the Tank Commander to move the 120mm main gun to where the Commander’s .50cal heavy machine gun is pointed to.

Improved Gunner’s Primary Sight day and thermal cameras that allows for better resolution and to see further out.

A new color camera and color display that allows for better color differentiation than the previous green and black color camera and display.

A new Gunner’s lower panel that allows the M1A1s to use two new types of ammunition developed by the U.S. Army.

New tactical communications radios."

The above is basically FEP and will note nothing in the "upgrade in progress" (Until divestiture.) is APS mentioned, unlike it was for the SEP 3.

It appears what I posted might not have been looked at in my last, so I'll just repost one of the refs.

Picture Caption...
"U.S. Army Deploys M1A2 Abrams Sep V2 Main Battle Tanks Fitted with Trophy Active Protection System (APS) to Germany"

DATE: Jul 20, 2020

Para 3:

"In 2019 Leonardo DRS, Inc. and Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd. of Israel (Rafael) announced that the partners have delivered on time the first Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) to defend the U.S. Army’s Abrams main battle tanks against a variety of anti-armor threats."

Para 4:

"On December 2018, U.S. Soldiers assigned to Company D, 1st Squadron, 1st Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Armored Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, tested the Trophy Active Protection System mounted on M1A2 SEPv2 Abrams main battle tank tanks at Fort Bliss in the United States."
https://militaryleak.com/2020/07/20/...ps-to-germany/

In Post 1699 (My last) you will notice what I just posted above is in the middle of that post and as quoted from...
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/...0of%20vehicles
https://www.dote.osd.mil/

I really went to some pains to point out the dates to show between Army testing and the events leading up and including the Marines divesting and "sunsetting" tanks there is NO POSSIBLE way the Marine tanks could have APS.

Even if the only thing I had was just simply getting them transported to the Army's Depots for installation of APS and returning them it would take well over a year to two to get it done.

But you well know that wasn't going to happen. APS is an Army program and Army tanks will take priority for installation.

And if you really want to know why this situation bothers me; I would ask "Who asked whom" to look into the USMC FEP tanks? I put days' worth of effort into them and if I thought there was even a "maybe" about USMC tanks having APS, I would've submitted THEM THAT WAY.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Ok......... In 25 words or less..... this means what EXACTLY to the USMC OOB?

K.I.S.S.

( REALLY........ 25 words or less )

Re: MBT's
 

Inter-service fighting is always interesting. It's like watching the US Air Force scream over the Army having fixed-wing drones or other aircraft that upset that old Key West agreement of 48. Well, it mainly bothers the brass at the Pentagon.

Re: MBT's
 

Testing timeline, divesting of USMC tanks and when USA actually got their first APS systems doesn't make it possible for USMC by the USA to install at depot and get the tanks back to USMC before their tanks went away.

I laid out the dates/timeline very clearly to show this.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

FINE Pat....... I take you at your word that you did a wonderful job of laying out " the dates/timeline very clearly to show this." THAT I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THEY ARE AND I HAVE NO INTENTION OF GOING BACK AND WADING THROUGH ALL THIS AGAIN

So KEEP IT SIMPLE FOR ME because I didn't set up that OOB but I am the one who has to fix it

OK??

You seem to be saying that the USMC Abrams that have "CIWS" in the game SHOULD NOT HAVE IT because USMC would have lost all its armour before the work was done and the vehicles sent back from repair?


This is simple...... Is that correct??

YES or NO ?

One of two words is all I need right now

Re: MBT's
 

You have access to sources (i.e. paid subscriptions etc.) I don't so as always one you dig into something I'll take your word as gospel. I look at what sources I can access, extrapolate based on what I've seen/know (closest I ever got to being a logistic weenie was filling out the forms necessary to order parts/tools needed for/by a maintenance battalion ... which did work on tanks). I was under the impression the APS were ordered, received and tested thus the next step is obviously deployment, and an deployed MEU would have #1 priority. Thus why they're in the OOB, because it represents what's likely to be encountered on the battlefield.

Thanks for your time/efforts!

Re: MBT's
 

As always I'm working on next years update/patch so I wouldn't worry to much about the matter AT THE MOMENT Don.

Re: MBT's
 

Yeah and I already said we are done farming out OOB work----that was aimed at you------ so write it down and I will sort through it but there will NOT be anything like what happened last time

Re: MBT's
 

Don,
YES, that is correct. No APS for any USMC MBTs.

Got home from work less than 2 hrs. ago and have to do a dummy drag (160 lbs.) followed by a 2-mile walk (No jogging or running allowed auto disqualification) 30 min. in less than 8hrs. before I go back to work a little later in the day.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Thank you.

Short and to the point I like a lot

I have now removed it from any USMC Abrams in the USMC OOB that had it

Re: MBT's
 

No matter the cause or issue and the reason for; someone out here will ALWAYS be my Marine Buddy.

As "Pride Runs Deep" so does "Semper Fidelis".

From the lift (160lb. sandman.) and 20ft+12s/2mi. at 27m flat. I live to work another year. I wonder if it'll be harder @ 65!?! :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Youbetcha......

Re: MBT's
 

It would appear from reports and photos , that Ukraine has at least one ABV

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1699500141

Re: MBT's
 

Given what I've seen reported about the Russian defenses they could use a battalion of them.

Re: MBT's
 

Apparently, the Russians had a substantial (shed-load) stockpile of mines.
It would be interesting to know how far back in age they go. Some of them could easily be (possibly..... ) ones made before they stopped needing to use them in quantity in WW2

Re: MBT's
 

One thing the Soviet/Russian government/military is known for is never disposing of anything (other then people) that has the slightest use. Wouldn't be surprised to see them pull out a MIG-17.

Re: MBT's
 

This is not MBT related but it doesn't fit any catigory we used so I used the most popular thread

https://i.imgur.com/LZVni4l.png

Does anyone know what the vehicle at the front on the right is ?

Thinking C&C communications

Re: MBT's
 

This pic appeared on Tanknet:

https://www.tanknet.org/index.php?/t...e/14/#comments

"Rhino (Oshkosh) and Ofek (Merkava) command vehicles seen side by side. "

Re: MBT's
 

The problem is this....... I am guessing the Rhino (Oshkosh) is the one I was asking about but a Google search does not show anything that looks like that at all and this......

https://www.israeldefense.co.il/site...A4%D7%A72.jpeg

is an ofek and there isn't one in that photo I posted. That MIGHT be one ( maybe ) in the second tanknet photo on the right side but it's not clear that is what it is

https://static.timesofisrael.com/www...1/DSC02460.jpg

The large vehicle DOES look like it's built on an Oshkosh truck chassis

https://www.defencetalk.com/wp-conte...AS-B-truck.jpg

and ELbit makes something very, very similar for the Swedes

https://defence-industry.eu/wp-conte...med-Forces.jpg

https://defence-industry.eu/elbit-to...-armed-forces/

So it seems it's an Elbit and Elbit Systems Sweden AB IS a subsidiary of Israeli company Elbit Systems ( which used to be IMI )

Re: MBT's
 

..and all that lead to this

https://elbitsystems.com/pr-new/elbi...onal-customer/

https://elbitsystems.com/media/WP-PU...her-system.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PULS_(...ocket_launcher)


https://elbitsystems.com/pr-new/elbi...ember-country/



https://www.army-technology.com/proj...srael/?cf-view

Re: MBT's
 

Since I don't want to say, "I told you so." I won't. :D

Appears the Danish (German owned from FFG.) LEOPARD 1A5 DK have been fielded by Ukraine this month.

This fitted my timeline as much earlier posted. If you kept up fully with this tank it has been mired in the political, financial and overall process for a longtime.

It appears that MAYBE they added either ceramic or applique armor on the front hull.

The shape looks ever so slightly different. But as you can see the weather in the picture doesn't help me in saying it's there beyond 15% - 20% chance at best.

What is clear is there is no ERA on the pictured tank.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...tle_tanks.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Date adjusted, ERA removed

Re: MBT's
 

FINALLY, we have a schedule (Year) on when Taiwan will be receiving the first 38 M1A2T tanks during 2024.

The rest as in the ref. below will be delivered in 2025 & I believe it was. 2026.

Trainers (114) for both HIMARS and the tanks will be stateside in the beginning of 2024.

I believe last year I asked for a date change to right which was done.

I estimate FOC earliest to be somewhere between Oct-Dec 2024.

Since Poland is all in on the K2PL (Easier and cheaper to operate and maintain.) and M1A1.

Poland had priority at first due to the war in the Ukraine.

I would expect the first tanks were meant for Poland.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe..._tensions.html

CINCLANTHOME will be back later this evening so, hitting the rack as I still have some light house cleaning and a load of laundry.

Least I can do for ALL she does for me. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Not a complete rehash from my last post on Taiwan's tank issue from ref. dated 01 Dec. 2023.

The next dated from today informs us that plans for the trainers and operational specials is likely to start in Jan. 2024.

" This ambitious plan aims for these personnel to be fully trained by the end of next year, marking a significant enhancement of Taiwan's defensive capabilities.
B]"[/b]

Also; "In February 2024, 30 officers and personnel will also be sent to the United States for HIMARS training, which is expected to be completed by October 2024. Upon their return, these soldiers will be responsible for training and developing operational guidelines for these weapon systems."

It also tells us they will be deployed on the western coast to protect that area from invasion and protect a handful of key cities (Named) and airfields.

So, my initial thought based on what's posted above from the below ref. was to shift the FOC (As late as Apr.-Jun 2025.) HOWEVER, the Taiwanese Army is well trained, disciplined but more importantly-smart.

My thinking is now closer Jan.-Mar. 2025.

In the end though I'm thinking to leave UNIT 025 alone as I see no real problem with Nov. 2024 until we know more.

I feel a clearer picture will be seen in the first three months of 2025.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ars_in_us.html

HIMARS FOC will be reached by Jan.-Mar. 2025.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I REALLY NEED TO STOP READING "MY PAPERS" BEFORE GOING TO BED BUT, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT AND CERTAINLY REPRESENTS AN IMPORTANT PART IN EURPOES "AWAKING" TO THE WORLD AROUND THEM.

GERMANY IS PERMANTLY DEPLOYING TROOPS OUTSIDE OF IT'S BORDERS FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE WWII.

IT APPEARS IT'LL BE AN ARMORED BRIGARD WHICH WILL HAVE ITS OWN BASE IN LITHUANIA AND PAID FOR BY THEM AS WELL. THE MOVE STARTS IN 2024 WITH THE UNIT TO BE FULLY STOOD UP BY 2027. THE BASE WILL ALSO HAVE HOUSING ETC. FOR THE FAMILIES OF THOSE SERVING THERE.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...04dec8c7&ei=13

Was in caps from some other work I was doing just before. Wasn't "shouting" just got to typing.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

.......And that base will be, (surprise, surprise,surprise) 100km from the Kaliningrad Oblast..... ( which was Königsberg for 690 years before it was Kaliningrad)....as most of you already know.

"Fun" fact............Nikita Khrushchev offered the entire Kaliningrad Oblast to the Lithuanian SSR in the 1950's but the First Secretary of the Communist Party of Lithuania, Antanas Sniečkus, refused to accept the territory because it would add at least a million ethnic Russians to Lithuania proper.

Kinda like south-eastern Ukraine only in Ukraine the number is 10x higher but in Lithuania a million ethnic Russians would have been 37% of Lithuanian population...... in Ukraine it's about half that % so..........."it's complicated"

When the Soviet Union broke up far too many Western politicians myopically thought this meant the end of strife in Europe........ how do you think that " peace dividend" is working out ?

Re: MBT's
 

Well, I've been saying it for a longtime now; so now that it's actually seen combat, not that I had any doubts about it ever, I'll just turn it over to the Ukrainians and their observations and take note of the distance and by extension its first round hit probability.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra..._accuracy.html

This is one of those "It was worth the time and effort. " Not just once when several years ago when submitted for a major "overhaul" with half a page write up and refs but also more recently when newer data became available to improve on it again in the last or previous patch.

My first day back to work later today after a week in Va. and the above, it'll be a good day! ;)

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays! Sunday we'll have our Christmas at home.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

We can "Greenlight" the LEOPARD 1A5 for this month.

The tanks were just put into service with the Ukrainian 59th motorized brigade these were from the first 30 of the tanks delivered.

There still remains 130 tanks yet to be received. The tanks are being refurbished based on the condition of the tank to streamline the transfer of them to the Ukraine.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...1a5_tanks.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

As in real life in war as it should be played in the game; BRADLEY defeats T-90M by this principle.

Video is about 1/2 way down/"TG: WAR ARCHIVE".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...33d1999d&ei=22

It's TGIF, LIFE IS GOOD!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

The pen calculator confirms that in the game it is possible to take out a T-90 with the Chain Gun on the Bradley from the side and the rear....... no certainty but possible

Re: MBT's
 

After the Khafji battle during Desert Shield/Storm I spoke to a LAV-25 gunner who'd run into some T-62s out west of the city (in the middle of nowhere) and he told me that tho the 25mm couldn't penetrate the turret armor it was knocking chips out of it and he felt that given enough time/ammo it could have chiseled a hole through.

NOT RELEVANT to WinSPMBT but I found it interesting.

Re: MBT's
 

Yeah well...... if you are watching your hits take chunks out of the armour ya gotta think that eventually, you'll get all the way through

Re: MBT's
 

Well, I realize what I forgot to add on my last post; my brain was telling me what to write but my fingers were ahead of the thought.

The "lesson" I was trying to put across was the importance of mobility while attacking a target bigger than you in a combat situation which the video clearly shows.

Move, Shoot, Reposition and REPEAT.

The video clearly shows the Bradley(s) was firing DU rounds (Yes, I posted they would get them. They received them last fall.) where they hit the ground and the T-90M.
https://orau.org/health-physics-muse...ting%20Vehicle.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...-rounds-2023-6

From Ref 1 (Ref 2 discusses this as well.) Para. 2: "Unlike tungsten, uranium is pyrophoric."

And the video also shows smoke coming out from the T-90M main gun and not from firing it as it runs into the trees.

And it doesn't look as though the crew made it out as well since the Ukrainians like to show the Russians "scurrying about" out of armored vehicles etc. when attacked.

Upon review of the video again it looks like two crewmen got out on the right side of the tank. Those "white lights" on the left side of the frontal arc of the turret is definitely the signature of DU rounds and not a Tungsten round.

I was surprised to read from my Marine Buddy that the LAV-25 didn't use the DU rounds in combat in Iraq as "JAKE" showed me pictures from his crew of him loading the dual feed ammo belts.

HOWEVER, AS I FOUND THAT STRANGE, I FOUND THE FOLLOWING...

The LAV-25 used the following against heavier armor as taken from Page 1-3 of the below referenced.

"M919 Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized
Discarding Sabot With Tracer (APFSDS-T)."

It has a DU Penetrator. DATED: 19 December 1997/SIGNED BY: J. E. RHODES
Lieutenant General, U.S. Marine Corps Commanding General
Marine Corps Combat Development Command
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...mcwp3-14-1.pdf

Based on your earlier post and comment, might this change something now for you? ;)

A T-62 is no T-90 and you saw what the DU rounds did to it. DU rounds would "SHRED" a T-62 in a heartbeat.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Do you think the lasted 120mm DU will be sent or older stock ? My guess would be the previous ammo with the latest keep in the USA

EDIT. I have now given the M1A1 Abrams UKR the 120mm M256 03 gun/ammo rather than the generic 120mm L44

Re: MBT's
 

The Brads give the Ukrainians something they never had before.....the ability to hit a moving target while moving themselves better than they used to be able to do stationary.

Re: MBT's
 

Did my last affect or have any bearing on the AP round the USMC has currently for the LAV-25 in the game?

Supposed to be the the same round the BRADLEY uses.

Just curious.

Also, I believe that is a good choice of DU 120mm for the Ukrainian
M1A1.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I didn't ask what type of ammo he used but I know DU available so I assumed it was that. I can't imagine HE doing anything at all to tank level armor, and I'm not sure regular D/S would have knocked chips out of the armor.

Nope.
I copied the stats from the US Army OOB so if there's to be a change that's up to DRG.

Re: MBT's
 

Take this for what it's worth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg64H8jwheQ
(( Not specifically "tank" but lots of info on the T-90. ))
(( Of particular note the T-90 CANNOT use the new APFSDS round designed for the T-14 as it will not fit in the autoloader. ))

I know Don "loves" to tweak units :re:

Re: MBT's
 

Yeah, I got you.

Got my curiosity up as General Dynamics makes the same ammo for the BRADLEY.

Just wanted to enquire if your (CORPS) LAV-25 was using the same ammo as the BRADLEY is all.

As to the T-14 is about DOA (They can't afford nor because of the embargo get the computer chips for its advanced electronics besides being unreliable.

However, that being said there is a PROTOTYPE T-90M(E?) (Not the "Proryv 3"" I've "seen" that apparently have the T-14 gun or modify the existing gun to fire those rounds which would require a modification of the FCS at a minimum.

I'm watching this however, I have "LOW CONFIDENCE" in the source. You can draw tour conclusions of this last. They say below the gun and ammo are on the T-90M Proryv 3 (Or the T-90M 2017 as it's also confusedly called.).
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tec...ssias-%D1%8290

Just because I haven't been posting for a while doesn't mean I'm not paying attention.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

As far as I know if the USMC uses the same weapons, or weapons caliber as the US Army they use the same ammo. Tho there may be some "high tech" (i.e. the 155mm Excalibur) ammo types the USMC has a limited stock of, or only requisitions for a specific need/requirement.

Same with missiles, bombs, and all the rest.

There aren't very many "unique" weapon systems in the US Military. And those mostly belong to the SF types.

Re: MBT's
 

Needed to clarify a couple of points below. FBT 1/22/24

Why we haven't seen the Ukrainian M1A1 we haven't seen them in combat and might not see them in combat until the Spring.

NOTE: The only ERA mounted on pictures of these tanks is ONLY on the Hull sides. I haven't found any sources to indicate they will add any more in the future, though this might change once in combat.

It was also interesting that the only tanks that will not receive ERA are both the LEOPARD 2A6 and the STRV-122 because of their all-around armor packages and combat experiences.

The first reason is that all of them are being fitted out with M-19 Reactive Armor Tile (ARAT).
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...ttlefield.html
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...reactive-armor

The second reason is the current weather they are having a hard time with Ukraine's Winter mud due to their weight; they are the heaviest tank on the battlefield.

The biggest reason that's "popped" on the web also, appears to be both a political and military decision to hold them back until the Spring offensive.

Though the "overview" at bottom might bring up an alternate picture for 2024. And personally, I can see this as it favors the Ukraine more than Russia.
https://www.businessinsider.com/abra...alysts-2023-11
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth...h=6e9fc7816198

Overview:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67760067

Also "cope cages" are coming back as they have been found effective on both sides versus drones by causing them to "hang up" on them or explode prematurely. Also, omni-directional radio jamming equipment is also appearing in the battlefield on both sides as well.

When you mount a low power multi band jamming equipment that can cover the frequency band in milliseconds your drones will drop like flies. They are only radio controlled. Only the larger UAV's have the capability on board (EW) to counter your system and those comms are from highly encrypted satellites for both the operator and UAV.

But then you wouldn't waste a UAV/or large Drone on a tank anyway given the cost of them.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

For those who read my last post concerning the Ukrainian M1A1; I offered an "overview" option concerning a possible alternative to a Spring Offensive and my opinion on the matter as it relates to the BBC ref. last in the post.

So today we have this calling for a more "hold and defend" posture to resupply, rebuild and train.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...e2c9ac79&ei=58

Though not yet the final word; it isn't the final "word", but it is started to be "shouted" out at the moment.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Some perspective


As of today, it's been 702 days since the Russian invasion of Ukraine started.

The number of days from the start of Barbarossa --Jun 22, 1941 to the start of the Kursk battle--July 5, 1943 is 743 days

The number of days from the Start of the Kursk battle to the German Surender May 8 1945 was 673 days

The average of the days between those two dates is 708 days

Re: MBT's
 

doe-ray-me is a test.

:capt:

SAT: Something wrong with one of my refs (?), for a story I tried posting earlier this evening. Shrapnel System is stopping it.

Will attempt to get it out soon, I hope.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

The news was that the T-64 has seen some upgrades. Currently being the following tanks: T-64BM Bulat, T-64BW 2017, T-64BM2 Bulat, and the T-64BW 2022 version, made possible through collaborations with Poland and the Czech Republic.

What I've gotten from the four refs I have is the above now have the KNIFE ERA which is used on the T-84BM OPLOT, the FCS from the T-84 OPLOT
"Furthermore, since 2017, the tanks have been fitted with an upgraded fire control system complete with a thermal imaging camera. This addition provides them an edge in identifying and eliminating targets over all T-72 tank models below the B3 version. These models have lost duels against the T-64BWs. It's also important to note that the T-64 tanks have the most experienced crews, a factor that often results in more victories compared to the newly conscripted Russians operating the T-90M tanks."

Another source:
"The rebuilt T-64BM Bulat introduced new armor and a so-called “active defense” system than shoots projectiles in order to intercept incoming rockets. The current T-64 2017 adds modern thermal imagers, secure digital communications and satellite navigation." (Supposedly all back fitted to the above models from the T-64BM BULAT on.)

USAGE: This dealing more with both older and newer versions as noted above. From a different ref.
"These tanks are employed to neutralize Russian infantry assaults and finish off vehicles damaged by, for example, artillery. In the following video, you can witness a T-64 tank destroying a Russian IFV from the BMP family using a HEAT missile."

UNITS AFFECTED: The following is what I see and with my first impressions for UNITS 30-32.

First: "flip" FC for UNITS 30 & 32.

Second: Update ERA on UNIT 032 as shown for UNIT 030. See more on UNIT 030 below.

Third: Update ERA on UNIT 30 to reflect the KNIFE ERA from UNIT 064 T-84 OPLOT-M.

Fourth: Update RADIO on UNIT 032 to 85 or 90.

ALL listed above (T-64) got new engines (+200hp I believe.) to support Power usage for the newer systems and increased SPEED for the battlefield.

Crew 3 was what the refs. showed for the tanks having auto loaders so this should already be "built in".

So it would appear SRAPNEL's System detected something from one of the refs and or videos.

I will attempt to upload the videos in the next couple of days, I guess we'll find out which is which then.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Pat

The Ukrainian T-64's like the T-64BM Bulat and T-64 Bulat M17 already do have "an edge in identifying and eliminating targets over all T-72 tank models below the B3 version" in fact the M17 is superior to anything but the T-72B3M

Re: MBT's
 

Due to the ref situation on site I "Cut and Pasted" the quotes from the refs in pointing that out for context, the rest of it read that the "BWs" were still managing to take out the Russian "B3s" (And better to include the T-90M.) because the Ukrainian tank crews were more experienced in combat and handling their tanks than the Russian crews especially now as their attrition rates have been higher and apparently from numerous sources that are indicating that the Russian crews are only receiving minimal training before throwing them into combat in all aspects to include their tanks.

Russia can afford to do this as there is no shortage of manpower or tanks when they have thousands of them, that they can get into the battle.

If Russia can get their act together and consolidate their armored forces the Ukraine could find itself the modern equivalent victim of "Quantity versus Quality" in this war.

It's a good thing Putin is an inpatient man and currently distracted by openly threatening NATO due to Finland's and the very soon to be admitted Sweden into NATO.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

I'm not going to deep into this next as the article(s) are pretty "cut and dry". It's sourced from British Intel on their assessment on Russian armor. The second from the Pentagon.

You'll note there is no mention of the T-14. The T-14 has been unreliable (Even from Russian military sources.) and costs way too much.

Most of the production tanks are as you might expect, are the T-90M Proryv and T-72B3M tanks.

You have to keep in mind also, that the majority of their tank production capability is going towards various improvements of older tanks which they can get into the field quicker and cheaper than the new production ones as listed above.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...ish_intel.html

I'll start with the following first:

"The Pentagon is currently unable to provide the necessary spare parts or even assist Ukrainian personnel assigned to maintenance."

Secondly: You need to think about why we really haven't heard too much about the M1A1 and the LEOPARDS lately.

I am going to say, "I told you so." well into last year and before. The the key words were Training, Logistics and Maintenace.

The last 3 paras are all you need to read from the following and it covers all 3 of the above words. The German aspect at the end was really unexpected.

It's not at all good Ladies and Gentlemen.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...nian_army.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: MBT's
 

Just thought I would toss this in for FYI

https://armyrecognition.com/germany_...ical_data.html

It has an interesting video embedded


https://armorama.com/upload/media/en...1701677250.jpg

Re: MBT's
 

https://dsm.forecastinternational.co...faces-hurdles/