Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, with the number of rogue attacks it looks like I'll have plenty of opportunity for war. The rules don't have to be rigid and confining, they just have to imply there is some control. Particularly in CN, all the members of an alliance suffer for the sins of one. BTA has a rule about aggressive attacks, but its not rigid. If I want to go on a tech raid, I can, but its with the understanding that I do so on my own and it doesn't involve the BTA. I get in trouble, I can expect no help. As things are right with WP, anything anyone does involves the entire alliance. You have no system for separating out actions as individual from those of an alliance. As far as fun, we each have our definitions of what that is. Its unfair to impy I'm not having fun because my idea of fun defers from yours. I'm not trying to change what you're doing because I know you're having fun. I enjoy the role-playing aspects and opportunities the game presents more, it doesn't mean I'm having any less fun. I agree that just logging on to cash taxes and spend it for two minutes everyday wouldn't be my idea of fun either. I wouldn't do it at all if I weren't having fun. To each his own. I respect your attitude and there are times I wish I could be more on the edge like you. But it's not in my nature anymore than it is in your nature to be more like me.

Edit: Well all the other alliances I looked at have an application process and warn you against listing as being part of their alliance until they have approved, so pursumably there are measures that can be taken even if it's dogpiling you until to give up. I have seen threads where members were kicked out of different alliances. How its done, I don't know, all I can say is what I've seen. One of the things has something to do with masking which apparently can differentiate a real member from someone pretending to be a member.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I second CW. This game is a small game I enjoy playing, because I enjoy waging wars on differing nations to build my strength up as much and as quickly as possible. Wilhelmia was founded on the concept of conquering Antarctica, and by God I intend to do that. I leave in two weeks for the US Navy, so I have a lot to accomplish in a little time ;o

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Okay and I respect that. But apparently I can get no respect for enjoying other aspects of the game. To be honest, it's a pretty weak combat system and its the role-playing aspects that have me playing at all. Given your styles of playing, I would have been miserable and would have left CN shortly altogether. So you want to begrudge me for leaving and going somewhere where I can enjoy the game. Now who's taking things way too seriously for a GAME.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I am not begruging you I am just trying to figure out why you left and the others left. You gave me no indications that you wern't happy with how things were going no one did. Then you up and leave you can't expect me not to be curious and slightly peeved.

I have never forced anyone to goto war no have I made anyone get involved in anyone elses war I just don't understand what the problem is.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Even though this is a small online game and I have played in major online games, the problem is the same as always in online games. Real and perceived differences between playstyles, some need structure and others don't. Work your way up or buy your way up. They all cause problems sooner or later. And way too many online players take things way too seriously. Afterall it's only a game. Pretty much why I don't usually play online games anymore, except for Combat Wombat's invite to try CN and even then I just check to see what's going on. I haven't attacked anyone and no one has attacked me (knocks on wood). If I can help support anyone I'll try even though I don't have much.

Good luck in your alliances, I'll stay in the WP. Just my opinion.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, I'm not sure I can explain it any better than I already have. And okay I'd expect you to be curious and maybe peeved too. And I'm trying to answer you. I wasn't implying someone was told to go to war. But the fact that alliance has no rules of any kind any attack made by any member can effect all the members of the alliance. There are any number of examples on the CN forum (and perhaps I let them color my thinking too much) where an attack similiar to one Renegade13 made that almost involved the Legion did involve someone like the Legion, well, if it had all the members of the alliances would have been facing the maximum number of wars for as long it took to make us ZI. A prospect I'm sure I found more distateful than you do. With no rules to separate what is approved by the alliance and not approved, many of the other alliances will take that such an attack was approved by the alliance. One of my fears, founded or otherwise, given my reading was given the number of tech raids we were conducting and on targets to me that were increasingly risky (there's a reason behind why an unaligned nation is receiving a million in aid, and to me it usually means the sender is not going to be happy with you and if its an alliance it could mean trouble). WP isn't set up to handle that from what I see. How many aagreements does WP have with other alliances? Does WP even have diplomatic relations with anyone? These things would help in times of misunderstandings. With nothing in place, if someone were to go rogue as say attack the Goons, what do you think would happen? You have no agreement in place to disavow such an event. There are many small alliances that think very much like you do. War is the Game as far as CN goes. The WEPA comes to mind. Even when the five alliances took it to defend the unaligned nation I mentioned earlier. WEPA said basically bring it on, we love a good fight, even if it was they couldn't win and even if it meant they were ZI'd. Even they have rules as to what is acceptable behavior. Without it in times of crisis how can you have meanful conversations with potential adversaries? It wasn't anything I saw happening as much as what I saw could happen. When I went to bed last night the first time, I couldn't sleep for thinking what if I wake in the morning and we're in a war with the Legion over a tech raid. It distrubed so much I went back online and made the move to BTA. It was probably sooner than I would have liked and certainly less smoothly at this end than I would have liked. For that I apologize.

edited to correct word meanings.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Just quoting myself from a previous post to clarify my stance on attacking other nations. Also I would like to note no matter what rules any alliance lays down they have no real way to enforce them because you can't kick people out of the alliance just like you can't keep them from joining.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

As for my "near miss" with the Legion, well I had no way of knowing that my target was affiliated with them in any way. I also stopped my attacks once I found out the target was affilitated with them. I can't help it if someone shows as not belonging to any alliance, and yet is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Also, I think the people from the Legion who contacted me telling me to stop knew that as well, and wouldn't attack due to that.

As for losing sleep over such a matter...well, personally, I think you're taking it a little too seriously. It's a game, not the end of the world if you are attacked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif But really, if you are losing sleep over it, then rectifying that situation is probably the best thing you could do, and I understand why you did switch if that's what was happening.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Ok, IF I create a secondary alliance, with a charter laying out rules on when/how/if to attack, and codifying the boosting scheme below, and recruiting guidelines, etc., while still being strongly affiliated with Wombat Protectorate, how many would be interested in joining? My thinking right now would be attack only if someone in the secondary alliance is attacked first, or the nation is in an inactive alliance or unaligned and has not signed on in a week. Anyone involved in boosting cannot be involved in wars for the 10 days of the boosting process plus the two days immediately before (the boostee of course has this enforced by being in peace mode up until the very end).

My main concern in doing this is the threat that some of the more aggressive members of the alliance pose to my more conservative style of play. You all may think it's fine, but I know what I would do if I was in the leadership of one of the huge alliances and raids like Wilhelmia's on a nation that just received a $3,000,000 aid package (either directly or indirectly) annoyed me enough:
1) I would demand full reparations for the raided nation, equal to the amount of cash and tech stolen and soldiers killed, plus 2x the cost for the raided nation to buy back land, infrastructure, and tanks lost
2) When the raider says "Tough luck, I already spent it", and the raider is in an alliance, I would demand that the leadership of that alliance find a way to make equivalent reparations; it would include a suggestion that the reparations be obtained by raiding the rogue nation
3) If that demand is denied (or it's an unaligned nation), then I would take out the reparations manually by having "soldier" nations attack the rogue nation and random nations in the alliance within the strength range. The attacks will stop when either the alliance manages to pay the original reparations demands or the wars expire in a week. I would have the random nations attacked to encourage the alliance to keep members in line. If you want to be a rogue attacking whomever you feel like, then play the Tournament Edition.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I realize you don't know they were affiliated with the Legion and you did everything right. But there are plenty of examples where something goes wrong and I was only using it as an example of the potential pitfalls for pursuing those type of attacks. I know it's a game and I'm not too sure I'm taking it that seriously. If I lost my nation, well it was fun while it lasted. It's just when something is on my mind that is unresolved, my brain keeps me awake working on various solutions or scenarios. It happens only occasionally and rarely over a game. Most times I do fall asleep. I think last night was an exception because I was up so late and had so little sleep that I was tense too. I have no ill feeelings and wish you guys well, I just realized I was in the wrong place is all. Afterall, we all play the best game going Space Empires. So when's that next patch coming out?