Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

See Invis is also See Ethereal.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Reasonable; that chain shirt would start getting rather... uncomforatable, until you had the appropriet holes put in it. Also it doesn't stop normal hiding (which I've used fairly recently). Well thought-out; you're right. If you want goggles or lenses of See invisiblity, you can commision them.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Now, do I know to expect this in character (dream vision from my deity or something) or not? I certainly don't have the ranks in Knowledge (Religion) to know from my studies that really powerful Favored Souls get wings.
Thank you. So, somebody hopped in the crafting portal back at the loot disposal city and made Goggles of See Invisibility and Darkvision for a 36k commission before we left, and Eldon got his goggles upgraded to the same for 27k (assuming he hasn't changed his mind), right?

Now, an item of continuous Protection From Evil by the formulas would be 1*1*2000*2 = 4000 gp for complete immunity to mental control. That is ridiculously low for an ability almost any character would love to have. Especially when you consider the deflection bonus it grants would cost twice that by itself, though it applying only to evil attackers would lower that a bit. I don't think I'm ever even going to try talking a DM into letting me have such a munchkinly item for any price, unless I have something like half a million gp just sitting around and no clue what to spend it on.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Never run a favored soul before, and it's not specified; pick whichever you think would make for better roleplay.Right, as that's the period of time you were thinking about it in character.As is an item of True Strike, and a handful of others; which is why, during the session, the response was a maybe, rather than a specific yes or no; limitless mundane ammo will save you a small amount of gp over the course of your character's career, and make endureance challenges simpler; see invisiblity, though, cuts down on the effectiveness of a number of strategies - it was one of those things that struck me as being potentially a problem, but not necessarily so; I wanted to see a little more than we had time for at the time, so put it in the "not right now" cateogry; your analysis filled that role quite nicely.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hmm, if a fight with a creature with DR/special material lasts more than four rounds of shooting, the 20 of each I can put in the arrow compartment of my new quiver would run out. It would only take three rounds if I add in the etherial arrows too. Can I use the javelin compartment for arrows instead so I can cut down to just the one quiver without having to worry about that? Maybe specially made that way if necessary, since I did commission it as a custom item so further customization shouldn't be too hard.

Speaking of the Ring of True Strike, I don't think the semi-official price of 400000 is high enough. A +20 weapon would cost twice that by the non-epic pricing rules and True Strike only gives the to-hit half of the bonus, yes, but that's ignoring the *10 multiplier for an epic bonus, the fact that it works on all weapons you use instead of just one, that it stacks with an actual enhancement bonus, and the nifty little extra ability of ignoring concealment. I'd put it at 16000000 gp - 8M (cost of a +20 enhancement) * 2 (different kind of bonus, stacks) * 2 (not weapon specific at all) / 2 (only adds to attack rolls, not damage). The ability to ignore concealment is negligible by for anyone who can afford that, I think, so I wouldn't bother adding anything for it.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

137,228 XP, which is just enough for level 17, right?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

With a standard effecient quiver, you can put them in there, but the nondimensional containment is too long for them, and you're pulling them back out as per the "retrieve a stored item" combat action (move equivalent, provokes); you can carry extra arrows that way, (36 in the Javelin compartment, which is twice the listed number of javelins; 18 in the bow compartment, which is three times the listed number of bows), but you can't shell them out at five per round.

I'll let the custom work, with the same conversion ratios, so you can fit 114 arrows inside and draw them out as from a normal quiver; but then you can't fit a bow or javelin sized item inside; just arrow-sized items.
Even with guideline of bonus squared * 1000 (as it's half the benefit of a +20 weapon), and ignoring that it stacks with weapon enchancement, it doesn't get to ignore the *10 epic tag:
(Emphasis added)
That's not a 400,000(x2) gp item, but a 4,000,000(x2) gp item.

Null: Yep, that's 1,228 xp into 17th, unless my math is off.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Sweet. So I can add another dragon hitdie for the skills? Wondering what the modifiers to the saves would be...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ah, but not all criteria for whether a magic item is epic or not trigger that multiplier. If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items, multiply the portion of the market price derived from that characteristic by 10. Insight bonuses to anything do not have a listed non-epic limit.

I got that semi-official price from this article, written by Skip Williams aka The Sage, who I think is the primary author of the official D&D FAQ, among other things.

Dragon hit dice have all three good saves, and it's your second dragon hit die, so all three would go up by 1.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ah, so you've never seen some of the historic "What the FAQ?!" moments where versions of the FAQ actually contradicted themselves (e.g., acid both ignoring and not ignoring hardness)? I belive they've weeded them out in the current version, but still not a document I exactly trust; when I find something in there that doesn't quite match up with one of the other rules; especially as a) the heading for that particular subsection of the Epic segment of the SRD clearly spells out that in general, if it even meets one of the criteria, it's epic - and 20^2 * 1,000 definately beats the 200,000 gp cap for non-epic items; b) there's exactly one listed core item over the 200,000 gp cap in non-epic - the Staff of Power; c) my take on the form of the article is that he's looking at which way to look at the guidelines, focusing on normal play - Epic's just a side comment, and I doubt he's thinking much about the little details on the Epic item pricing guidelines.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oh, I know he's been known to make quite a number of embarassing mixups, but what he writes for WotC does have the backing of at least quasi-officialdom.

Regardless, I don't see any possible interpretation of the rules in the SRD that would make having a market value over 200k trigger the *10 multiplier. The epic *10 is specifically keyed to bonuses that non-epic items can't give, and it's trivially easy to stack up legal non-epic bonuses on a single item to the point where its total cost exceeds 200k. +6 to all ability scores would do it just fine (Note: Do not ever allow material from the Miniatures Handbook into a normal campaign without carefully looking it over first. The Miniatures Handbook is home to such brokenness as the Belt of Magnificence +6, +6 to all ability scores on one item, for a mere 200k, among many many other things). Now, I wouldn't argue against a house rule that a +20 permanent insight bonus is beyond non-epic limits, but insight bonuses aren't even mentioned anywhere in the RAW as having a cap, non-epic or otherwise.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

You know, seeing as how everyone else is getting custom items, maybe I should join in. Hmmm.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yes, Eldon picked up the goggle upgrade.

Where's the logs, so I can go count his XP?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

You know, you could just get a hand of glory, for 8,000 GP. Extra ring slot, and can use daylight and see invisibility once a day.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

*updates charsheet*

Everyone on for tomorrow? Ought to be able to make it, now that the moving is finally done... just a ton of boxes to unpack and sort now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Logs don't hold the xp counts; this thread does. Hard drive crashed are tough; let's see....

Eldon:
Last session; +5,000
2/11: +1,333
1/28: +3,700
1/21: +1,325
1/14: +3,320
1/07: +1,125+1,686
12/17:1750
12/03: 117326

131,565

Unless I missed something, of course.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Woooohoo, if Narf doesn't sleep in, we might finnally have a full group!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server online.

Today's Random: [100d20] -> [4,5,20,18,16,13,8,12,1,6,11,6,16,4,6,12,5,5,20,5,2 0,16,14,6,
17,19,15,15,8,6,18,3,2,19,4,3,12,15,17,3,14,16,20, 5,12,3,12,13,6,12,12,5,5,9,3,6,5,20,11,
19,9,8,10,8,11,20,8,17,11,1,18,15,8,18,12,19,7,20, 18,3,2,2,17,6,12,20,12,18,19,2,6,1,20,5,
3,7,14,19,14,5] = (1078)

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Here's my character sheet, been a while before I posted it.
EDIT: Fixed a few minor things.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Back from dinner; Violist? Registered a disconnect.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server Closed.
One CR 15 halfling Rogue slaugtered - but took a dragon down with him; trasure taken.
Three CR 13 Troglodite Clerics dealt with; one killed, the other two pacified, and gave directions to the goal you were after.
One CR 13 Beholder slaughtered. Rather messily. All damage dealt by the Rogue.

Let's see... at the beginning of the session, Kaylin was 15th, Jason 16th, Elorin 16th, Kibin 17th, correct?

If so....
3,375 xp to Kaylin;
2,400 each for Jason and Elorin;
1,913 for Kibin.

No votes cast? Oh well. What about this week?

Log attached.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hmm... that puts Jason up a level, to ECL 17. Nifty ... new spell level (6th - meanwhile, when Kaylin gets to 17th, she will be figuring out how to cast her first Wish....), new feat, stat point to add....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Whoa, cool. That puts me into XL16 with 63 XP to spare. May I take a level of Archmage yet or have the requirements not been satisfied?

And if so... what High Arcana should I take... Mastery of Shaping is what we planned for, but lately I haven't been using area effect spells much when people are in melee... Spell-Like Ability is highly tempting, though I'm not entirely sure how it works...

I'm casting my RP vote with Elorin... and I'm kind of wondering if Kibin's personality is changing or if that's just me?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Go for it.

Spell like ability:
All right; say you want to always have Greater Teleport (8th level spell) ready; if selecting that, you burn - permanently - two spell slots; a 5th level spell slot (for the ability) and an 8th level spell slot (for the spell). Once done, you can use Greater Teleport as a spell-like ability twice per day - permanently - so on monday, you use greater Teleport twice - and on tuesday, and on wendsday, and on thursday....

And, if you happen to get pinned, and unable to speak, that's okay, as the components (other than special XP components) went away - you don't need to waive your arms, you don't need to say anything - you just need to concentrate (there's a concentration check for casting spells in a grapple, and a spell-like ability works just like a spell, with the exceptions of a couple of things), and away you go, up to twice per day.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I vote for Kaylin this time.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Okay, a few changes... Pretty minor. Charisma reduced 2 points to raise constitution two points for a little more health... a few more modifications to the sheet... Still has 8 attacks, 260 average damage if all 8 sneak attacks hit, good initiative and to hit rolls... Maybe I should temporary retire Kibin to fit him in. Hmmmm.

EDIT: Forgot the -2 penalty from dual wielding, whoops.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Sorry, I thought I had made it clear to NA when he asked after the session that I wasn't coming back. I didn't enjoy the game.

First and foremost I felt I was being pidgeon holed into playing the dumb meat shield. I hate it when a player is pushed into playing a stereotype.

Secondly, I couldn't stand NA. It may have been just that game session but he drove me nuts. I love it when players have different motives and different goals, it produces fun situations when these motives come into conflict. Unfortunately is all NA did was whine. Every thing we did he complained about not wanting to do it, and how it was stupid. This really irked me.

Third: I felt very much it was a DM ran game. By this I mean in every situation, it was a DM NPC that solves the problem. For me, this takes me out of the game. It may have been sheer coincidence but it seemed to me that the ghost had the solution to all of our problems, and the players were just along for the ride. The players didn't even seem to know their own characters, as it was usually the ghost who gave suggestions on how to use their spells/abilities.

Fourth: I prefer a game that is more, "Gritty." I like seedy characters, evil monsters and questionable ethics. I don't want to cruise around with a group of peaceniks making friends with the world, but that is just me.

Finally: I just didn't like the feel of the game. The whole session left me feeling annoyed and bored. It wasn't enjoyable.

On a side note: I should have gotten XP as a sixteenth level character as a half giant is +1 ECL.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Aww, I'm sorry to hear that. It was nice having you along for the one session, though.

Spell Like Ability on Greater Teleport sounds extremely useful, since we seem to use that frequently, and I dislike the Teleport's failure chance... so unless anyone can think of some reason not to, I'll do that.

On a third note, the local Bach-playing marathon is Saturday, so I probably won't be able to attend much of the session. Perhaps Kaylin needs to be off to meditate on her newfound abilities...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

There was some discussion along that line before the session started, but as far as I can tell the subject was dropped completely once we started and it was clear your character was already finished.

I'd agree with you on that one, but it really was just that session. I can't remember any session where he was even close to as annoying as he was that time. I think the main thing was that he just either didn't understand or didn't agree with that in a medieval setting like standard D&D, it is acceptable and even expected that travellers who are capable of fighting off bandits will do so with lethal force and little care for the bandits' survival unless they have a specific reason to want them captured alive.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I understand the potential problems with a DM PC, but I didn't notice anything even close to "the ghost had the solution to all of our problems". Sure, he has some useful abilities (Telekinesis at will, for one), but nothing excessive, and I think we could manage just fine without him. As for Jason giving suggestions on how to use our abilities, I'm having a hard time finding more than one example, and that one is incomplete - he suggested trying to detect magic to locate the druid, but I'm the one that came up with Arcane Sight as the spell to use.

We've had our share of "grittiness", and I expect we'll have plenty more to come, it just wasn't in that session. When I first joined, night watches were a very serious thing because the current BBEG had a habit of sending summoned demons/devils to attack us most nights, and the ghost I believe we referred to a few times in that session had some rather extremely questionable ethics. We were just on a one-session break from that quest, partly to get you introduced, and I think Jack just made up some mostly filler stuff for it, not long enough to properly introduce truly nasty characters. As for "peaceniks", tell that to the beholder that got its brain torn out through its ear (massive overkill from sneak attacks) last session http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif.

Not sure what to say about this one. You can give it another chance, or not, whatever you decide. We have enough players we won't really miss you all that much. You can try going through some of the logs of previous sessions to get a better sense of what's normal for us if you want. They're all posted in this thread.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That just doesn't seem like much of a benefit to me. It effectively moves one 5th level spell slot to 7th level in exchange for completely giving up all flexibility with that spell slot and another 7th level spell slot. I don't see the lack of components mattering, as it only has a verbal component which is not a problem for escaping from grapples, the main situation I can think of where it would really matter. Besides, Dimension Door will do that job just fine, and it's only 4th level.

By my count you have 4 7th level spell slots and 3 8th level already, including bonus slots from intelligence, which is quite enough to prepare an adequate number of Greater Teleports and still have enough good combat spells. 6th level and lower spells can still be quite potent in combat, you know.

Being able to toss AoE's like, say, Prismatic Spray, Cone of Cold, Fireball, and Waves of Exhaustion without worrying about where the melee guys are, now that's a handy ability. Unless I miss my guess, the primary reason you haven't been tossing AoE's when we're in melee is entirely because you didn't have Mastery of Shaping.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hmm... you're right. Besides, there's always next level... and the AoE spells are some of the best. OK, Mastery of Shaping, and now I have to stop procrastinating on calculus homework http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I just started Algebra II. Calculus is next. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I finished my last calc course two or three years ago. As for other homework, not having any is one of the great benefits of working at my job instead of taking classes this semester http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Fair enough.On a side note, the setup was for new entries coming in at the ECL of the lowest current party member (at the time, Kaylin and Rilyrr, at 15th), and not drawing from sources I don't have access to (where was that nifty knoweledge feat from?). I would have mentioned it after the session, but it became a moot point, so ....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Aww, calculus is fun! I just have yet to figure out what job requires triple integration...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Jack, how much would an item be that adds enchantment bonuses to natural weapons, such as Magic Fang, Greater does?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That item already exists, it's the Amulet of Mighty Fists.

The better question is, this item obviously does not fit the protection and discernment affinities of the slot it's in, so could you get it without that 50% markup in a different slot?

Let's see, I suppose transformation might fit for cloaks but it's a little bit of a stretch and I think you already have a cloak; a shirt's physical improvement might fit since these are natural weapons being enhanced; combat for bracers is obvious but you already have Bracers of Armor; the destructive power affinity of gauntlets fits but that would conflict with your Gloves of Dex; belts have physical improvement just like shirts so that might work, but I don't know if you already have a magic belt. It looks like getting it on a shirt is your best bet, pending DM approval.

BTW, does a robe's affinity for "Multiple effects" mean it costs less to add extra abilities to a robe than for other slots? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Also, what kinds of abilities go well on robes? "Multiple effects" is the only thing listed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hmmmm. A little expensive, though... Wonder if I can get it on attack rolls only.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ok, thanks.

Also, my computer is fixed (Again) (Hopefully permanently). Woohoo!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Woohoo! Now you can come have fun with us!

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

No, not really; you might, however, be able to convince the Rylrr to spend a couple of castings of Greater Magic Fang on you every day, or maybe even convinc Kaylin to Pemanency it. That, however, is up to the players.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Well, looks like I'll be able to play a few hours with you guys before I have to head off to the Bach festival. Nice to have you back, as it were, Narf.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Nice to be back.

I also have to get an allergy shot sometime today. (I'll be a little late)

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server Online.

Today's Random: [100d20] -> [14,19,5,1,15,17,2,19,6,6,10,18,2,3,14,16,14,10,2,5 ,12,3,5,4,
7,13,7,13,9,13,6,15,3,18,18,5,6,3,19,10,15,16,20,1 0,1,16,9,18,11,5,4,13,20,14,8,15,4,13,
4,4,20,3,18,18,5,10,4,16,3,13,12,4,1,3,8,10,19,4,1 4,4,12,10,4,20,10,6,8,15,12,10,11,20,
14,1,19,6,5,3,4,15] = (1001)

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server Closed.

One Greater Stone Golem (CR 16) Escaped; half XP: 283 each for Kibin and Jason (17th), 400 each for Kaylin, Elorin, and Eldon (16th), 562 for Rylrr.
One Behomoth Eagle returned home (CR 18), treated as defeated; full XP: each 1600 to the level 16 characters (Kaylin, Elorin, and I think Eldon), 1275 to the 17th's (Kibin, Jason), 2250 to the 15th's (Rilyrr)
Bison are only CR 2; you're expected to be able to deal with an infinite number of them; no XP.
Treating the initiation quest as CR 20, just for grins: 4500 to Rilyrr (15th), 3200 to Elorin, Kaylin, and Eldon (16th), 2550 to Jason and Kibin (17th).

Two votes cast; one for Kaylin, one for Elorin; 750 xp each.

XP gains:
Rilyrr:562+2250+4500=7312
Elorin:400+1600+3200+750=5950
Kaylin:400+1600+3200+750=5950
Eldon: 400+1600+3200=5200
Kibin: 283+1275+2550=4108
Jason: 283+1275+2550=4108

So, who roleplayed best this session?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Log attached.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Updating charsheet... should I just put the costs for the scrolls of the spells used that I didn't have, and subtract some for the crafting portal?

I'm going to cast my RP vote with Jason.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

As a DM slip up, your call.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That places me at a total of 143,249 XP points?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Or thereabouts; not something I'm tracking particularly closely at the moment.