Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

PF: The Vree, do the Vree! Me like the Vree, me play the Vree very often. Not very many ships of Vree, me sad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Point defense could target ships more easily than the evasive fighters it was designed for. how much damage it would do is another matter...

The real question should be "will allowing PD to target ships ruin their effectiveness in SE4 strategic combat?"

If you decide to allow PD weapons to target ships, perhaps you should give it "Quarter damage to shields", so that the Passive Armor on ships can shrug off the blows, while fighters are still thrashed.

[ October 16, 2002, 16:21: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ -
What I was thinking was:
1) Remove all existing weapons WP compatability.
2) Creating a few new PD guns for WP only. They would be very short range. There would be a mix of guns that could only target ships and those that can target fighters. Thereby seperating the two issues.

This would then avoid impacting space combat, but would make landing troops more hazardous. I'm still of the mind that Satellites and Orbital Bases are more in line with B5, so maybe we should just pump up the AI's satellite production.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val: Hmmm... make bunkers an infantry component? or an ability of the military outpost? just thoughts?

BTW is GROPOS worth having? Just waiting for Miltaries of the Alliance and Dilgar Wars to get here....

short range WP PD...atmosphere only or just outside of atmosphere or ?????? Shadows fighter slicers (at max level) had range of 8-10 IIRC ...could make them untouchable if WP PD is much shorter.... EA uni-pulse has range (at higher lvl) of 4? 5? just a reminder of the give and take on this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 16, 2002, 20:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val, question: why is the AM cannon (Vree) not capable of attacking satelites? If it can attack a moving target, why can't it track a non-moving target like a satelite? I understand why it can't attack a planet (antimatter explodes when contacted with matter (planets atmosphere is matter)), but it eludes me why it can't attack a satelite. This goes for almost all the AM weapons.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I working on adding some planetary defense facilities as well - as per your suggestion.

The fighter slicers shouldn't effect planets. All planets do have planetary shields that should stop most damage from weapons not geared towards planetary destruction. Most planetary weapons have 'skip shield' so they ignore that. Maybe I have to add in generators for the shields on the planets so they regenerate. These shields aren't meant to be 'real' shields (like in Star Wars), just something to counteract ships from assaulting planets with ship to ship weapons.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone
Have to look at it, not sure off the cuff. Can it target fighters? Or is it ship only?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val: Yeah, me no look at Shadows in a while http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Hehe, play balance is just Soooo much fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif . Planets should be able to defend selves so not a push-over but shouldn't be impregnable..... I know..me postulatin' the obvious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val/Timstone: The Vree antiproton defender (AM PD weapon) is, by component description, capable of firing on/destroying satellites. Component 1003 (or 12003 in component file).

[ October 16, 2002, 21:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Planetary shields don't regenerate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif They also don't benefit from crystalline ability on facilities.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

PF: Yes, I know that the APD is capable of firing at sats, but it just eludes me why I can destroy ships and not staionary target like sats with a weapon.

Val: AM Cannon is capable of firing at ships only.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

A few things regarding v...32:

1) There are still no smaller spaceport facilities. I thought this would change by this Version... do we want everyone to have to pick Natural Merchants or was this just overlooked? If no new facility is planned I definitely want to change my .emp file.

2) nomads... are they simply incomplete, or is the player supposed to choose both the "B5 nomad" and "B5 normal" traits. Most damaging is the fact that the nomads have no space stations and that the "resource ship" requires colony components - which the nomads simply do not have.
Anyway, I've compiled a list of things regarding the nomads - should I leave this till later or is now a good time?

3) I thought that ancients were going to be incapable of colonization - did this change? Pretty sure that the components exist for them to colonize planets.

4) the "Ability 6 description" field says "1" instead of a description. Should these types of typo's be reported right now, or is that just a hassel at this point.

Sorry if this message seems rushed, just taking a coffee break. These little things (like typo's) I'd be happy to work on sort of at my own pace, then who should I send these to?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone: think of it this way---does one use 16" rifle cannon to shoot down fighters and such? ....not normally, so one uses those weapons designed to shoot down fighters (40 mm Bofors as an example). Sats, in modern context, are very small, so it would seem anti-fighter weapons would be used gainst the sats...IMHO.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Was doing some experimenting Last night and I've come to conclusion that invading a high tech prepared Vorlon/Shadow world is going to be damn near impossible. Under the current rules (after all Val is still twisting things) I simulated an attack by 8 Vorlon Battle Cruisers equipped with Heavy Mount Medium Lightning Guns (a fairly potent force in my opinon) on a Vorlon Base (what ever the largest size is, forgotten the name) equiped with Massive Base Mount Mega Lightning Guns. Only one of the BCs got a shot off - all of the BCs were one shot kills by the base.

Seeing as 4000 pop world with a level 3 Space Yard could build these bases in 0.8 years without emergency build I wouldn't expect to face just one.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

AGoetz: Nope, you'll see a minimum, IIRC, of 2 (if you're "lucky")

jimbob: nomads are incomplete atm..

Val: I peeked at the Shadows in that EA RCE game and noticed the following: They are using 3-4 living cpus/ship; fighters have 2 cockpits-1 regular and 1 semi-sentient one and only he kamikaze fighters have weapons (but the fighters have a bunch of engines!)

[ October 17, 2002, 00:40: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The major races should be more fighter oriented (and the Drazi), and I know there was a minor race that was really into fighters, will try to find out who. The Shadows had a good amount, the Vorlons didn't use as many.

I'm still thinking about what to do with the WP, after getting the GROPOS supplement for B5 wars and a book on the Dilgar War (where there are a LOT of planetary invasions), even they only mention orbital defenses. I really have to sit and make a list of WP weapons and bunkers. Does anyone know if Point-Defense can be used to target ships (rather than just fighters and missile)?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val: Big zip coming your way.. hope your mail box ain't full? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

re Pathfinder's comments :
Seeing as how I like to have at lest 5 orbital facilites on my homeworld, ouch.

Something else I noticed by going high tech start - the AI's colony ships had no engines. By the time they put on the Colony component, reactor, armor, point defence, ECM and what ever else, there was no room left for actually going anywhere.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

AGoetz: Just try and take on a Pak'Ma'Ra planet with a defense base using ranged fUsers....almost as bad as Shadows with base-sized heavy molecular slicers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

and I too have noticed that "no engine" syndrome in full tech start games....

[ October 17, 2002, 03:07: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Pathfinder ,

Send you the excel file, enjoy.

Lighthorse

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Of course my poor little Gaim just get their Particle Concentrators and Packet Torpedoes. At least the Concentrators give a bonus to hit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[ October 17, 2002, 03:47: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Pathfinder:
Can I go ahead and make up some Nomad stuff then? Submit to you?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hey Guys,

I got an idea for WP. Allow everyone to have them and armed them as they would. If you can't defeat them in space, you're never get close enought to attack they homeworld.

Lighthorse

[ October 17, 2002, 04:06: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

PF
Yeah, kinda difficult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'd like to make it so either you have to bomb a place into submission (or oblivion) or have to land troops to take it. That's the goal at least.
Shadows - I actually have to redesign the ancient ships so they only require a single of those components, to make it work in the AI.

SJ
They don't regenerate in that combat, but they do in between battles, right?
Also, I have some new Facilities, Planets and Components to add to the image mod. I used the latest 'master' files as posted on your page.

Timstone
Ok, now that I'm at my place, I was able to look in the AoG sourcebooks that I used as a basis for the weapons. The AM Cannon has difficulty in tracking fighters (has a negative bonus) and I had just set it as a standard that any weapon that is 0 or less will not be able to target fighters or other small targets (I like PFs analogy). I would agree that since satellites are easier to hit than fighters, there is no choice for Ship/Base/Sat, if I include Sats then I have to include fighters, which is not something that weapon is meant to do. Hope that helps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Also, used your Reactor spreadsheet as the basis for the new reactors in 1.49.33.

Jimbob
Spaceport - basic model - added to 1.42.33 until a better solution is found.
Nomads (as PF said) are incomplete, though I am striving to get them done by this weekend if possible. I have Raider facilities and components in a rough to go form (which include some Nomadic stuff). Send me your Nomad list (and any other lists), just send it to me in a private message (and let me know here) or to the b5mod@yahoo.com
Ancient colonies are available, but only if the Ancients research B5 Ancient Tech level 2. This should not be put in the AI, or be used in the PBW we are playing. It is there for an all Ancient game (once the other 4/5 Ancients are done) so they can spread out in the universe. I had made a mistake and given it to them at level 1. Oops!
The ability 6 description field says "1" where? Yeah, nitpick away, all typos should be reported to me. Although AI typos should also be sent to PF.
I have made some Nomadic stuff, if you want me to send you the 1.49.33 beta, i'd be happy to :0

AGoetz
Yeah, could you picture an ancient world being easy to take? Maybe intel could be used to weaken their base a bit, the only real way to get in is in mass waves. This is also why the Ancients aren't meant to colonize in a regular game.
I think that engine error could be taken care of through redoing the AI designs a bit, though I'm not really so worried about this until we are done.
The Gaim have some other nice advantages coming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nomor
You weren't kidding, will look through them tonight!

[ October 17, 2002, 04:18: Message edited by: Val ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

As to WPs, I'm still thinking towards my intial idea:
WP can only take out fighters and provide armor for defense - as bunkers (SJ is credited with this idea, at least I think it was him who suggested it). Then you have to rely on Sats, ships and bases for your defense. Which is pretty consistant with all the B5 material I have seen or read (other than that one episode that Nomor had quoted).

In almost everthing I have seen, the only thing they talk about that is on the planet is the control stations for the satellites and military instalations (bunkers, fortresses, etc).

I would put in the PD weapons to shoot down fighters and incoming missiles, but even Earth (the crown jewel of humanity) only had a satellite defense grid and supplemented it with ships in orbit. If anyone saw the tv-movie where the Drakh unleashed the nano-virus, those tankers that made it past the defense grid had no trouble in the atmosphere (other than being shot by ships in orbit and fighters).

The only exception would be the Great Machine, which would be a MASSIVE planetary gun that would take most cargo space on any planet and would be limited in shots. Though the hits would be guaranteed kills on just about anything.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Jimbob: pass it to Val as he does the hard-to-do AI stuff ...me just do AI_designcreation and AI_research atm... plus dabbling in the AI_construction_vehicle file to get fighters going better..

Val: yeah, IIRC SJ had the bunkers idea...

AGoetz: You using the Gaim? Hehe....those bugs are TOUGH hombres when defending their HW; just ask the Narn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 17, 2002, 04:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Thanks for saying so PF, but I tend to think your bit is the tough and tedious part, although Simon's work on the speech files borders on insanity!

Gaim are also tough borders! They also have some ship components that give them an edge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val: hehe...Simon doing speech file? hehe...I tried that on a racestyle I was doing before getting involved with B5....veddy tough that be!

and do NOT mention the anger file...bleah, I go cross-eyed thinking about that one!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

That gave me fits on the ones I did! I did do a speech file for the Gaim and that took more time than everything else together for that race!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

re : attacking Ancients
I figure a non-Ancient heavily armoured Dreadnought may be able to survive a single hit from a Massive Base Mount Super Weapon, but wouldn't be usable for much afterwards.
Anyone know just how many ships you can have in one sector with out getting a RCE? Wondering if a mass of bases could be swarmed by 100+ Scouts with Boarding Parties. The bases should have security/destructs (if not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) - the security may work but as for the self destructs - I would consider exchanging a scout for a 'super star base of mega death' a fair swap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . In a war of attrition (which any attack on an Ancient stronghold would have to be) numbers can matter more than size.

Val : any idea on when .33 will be available for testing? I'm curious as to what you've added for the Gaim. It's ok if it will be a while, I'm patient.

[ October 17, 2002, 05:13: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I can post what I have anytime, but I'd like to include the Nomad and completed Ancient Facilities with the next release.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

So, real question is, when do y'all want to start the PBW?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I could start at any time in the near future - but I will not be ble to play from ~20th Dec through to ~6th Jan.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Another question for y'all that are versed in B5 lore, I would like to set the personality types for the races to reflect the following:
Group 1 - Aggressive Races (Dilgar)
Group 2 - Defensive Races (Abbai)
Group 3 - Standard Races (Earth Alliance)
Group 4 - Ancient Race (this one is pretty obvious)

Or do you think it should be setup differently?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

That sounds good to me.

The PBW game can't start until everyone sends in an empire file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So... get those empire files in people!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val,

I'm in no rush to play B5mod PBW. I'm willing to wait until later this year. I'm enjoying assisting you with your B5 mod developement.

Lighthorse

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

PBW can start whenever (no played one before so...)

as for that grouping: sounds good to me...

as for numbers in a sector, depends on what is setup but is somewhere bewteen 100-255 IIRC...could be very wrong though...

[ October 17, 2002, 11:28: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val/PF: Thanks for the info on the AM cannon problem. I didn't know you had to add the fighter string also, I thought you could add any string you wanted in any order you liked.

Val: I think yoiu've chosen the more game oriented reactor-spreadsheet for use in the game? I'm currently working on the animation for the jumpgate. But like I said, it will be low-res. I simply don't have the high-res material tow ork with. But that will be corrected in due time.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone
Welc! I actually had a lot of trouble with the target variables, because I didn't want most shipbound weapons to be able to damage a planet, hence the addition of the planetary shields in all facilities.
I'd be happy with any animation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I actually used a mix of yours and my original. Costs are down, power is up and it is on a better curve. The only big difference is in your spreadsheet, you had the weight factor of the fusion reactors the same as fission (or have I got them backwards again), when they should be in line with the Grav and AntiMatter ones. Another note, I made AM reactors more Rad expensive, less Min expensive and Grav more evened out in cost.

Lighthorse
The help is greatly appreciated! Now that we have a pretty solid team of people working on the mod, it has actually been progressing at a good speed again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The PBW is going to be a MAJOR help in finding out where the problems are, what is missing, what is too unbalanced and also, if people keep track of their research from turn to turn (as you did with the Narn), we can use that to augment the AI research file.

All PBW
Ok, so who is having trouble with their .emp files? I think we should try to get this started sometime soon, before we get into the holiday season http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All - On Groups
Group 1 30% - Dilgar, Drazi
Group 2 40% - Abbai, Cascor, Balosian, Gaim, Brakiri, Vree
Group 3 20% - Earth Alliance, Centauri, Minbari, Narn
Group 4 10% - Vorlon, Shadow, Torvalus, Kirshiac, Walkers, Mindriders

Need suggestions for where to put other races.

Other option is to have the Groups more like:
Group 1 40% - Major Races (EA, Narn, Minbari, Drazi)
Group 2 30% - Minor Races (Gaim, Cascor)
Group 3 20% - Nomadic/Special Races (Raiders, Technomages, Drakh)
Group 4 10% - Ancients (Vorlon, Shadows)

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Question on fighters/AI_construction_vehicles: You want me to do all races or just report "findings" for implementation by other(s)?
Short tests with Narn and EA seems to show fixed (crosses fingers).

or does someone want those two files for further testing?

All I did was grab the TDM files from the Last non-gold Version by Mephisto.

[ October 17, 2002, 19:44: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

One thing that I think I can guarantee - in the early to mid game at least, he who hasn't researched and bought along fighters will lose the fight to one who has.
Races that can mount missles on their fighters in particular will be trouble for any combatant that doesn't include interceptor style chassis with their fighting forces - the PD weapons cannot target both the seekers and the launch platforms.
One thing that I think all AI research trees should have early is Fighters and Point Defence.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

AGoetz: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So noted.

BTW: I might have (FINALLY) got something (if you've drunk enuf beer) that remotely (sorta) looks like the Brakiri Avioki cruiser... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All that is left for the "touch of the path" for the Brakiri is a medium fighter and fighter group http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 18, 2002, 03:44: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Now the Brakiri is a truely amazing accomplishment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PF - send the new AI along and I'll package it with everything else.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Tommorow night ok? won't take long, I don't thimk, to finish the 5 main races and the others (only have EA and Narn with the "new" AI_Construction_Vehicle file).
I'll also zip up the Brakiri (both DOGA and the PF Version of the racestyle) tommorow.

[ October 18, 2002, 09:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yo Val: empty that e-mail before it starts to overflow again...I just filled it with PF spam http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yeah Val, empty the bucket, coz the open and close animations are coming your way!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Box is at 99% full, but I won't have an opportunity to empty it until late tonight/early tomorrow, so hold off 'til Sat night if you can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

wwwhhhaaaaa..bad Markab! they beating up the EA in current test run... 5 Markab heavy destroyers with 6 particle cannon each just spanked 8 EA frigates with 3 medium lasers each....

[ October 19, 2002, 01:46: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Have you got enough armor on those EA ships?
And, who's fleet costs the most?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Not sure what the Markab had for aux equipment (sensors/ecm) but the EA had no armor at the time and no sensors or ecm. They now have the sensors and ecm (but not before the Pak'Ma'Ra wiped them a bit)

DOH...mistaken identity...twas the Grome (neutral) that whipped the EA...

[ October 19, 2002, 14:20: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Question on the AI_research: I did most of the AI in a quick, easy build. What are recommendations on making them unique (in how fast they research their race weapons and race-unque techs). Also, should I take out the weapon research that is not used in the AI_designcreation?

This is so the AI can cut to "the chase" so to speak and rapidly get tech it needs...

Also....post here if I left a tech out of a race's AI_research file. So many areass, I forget things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ October 19, 2002, 14:25: Message edited by: pathfinder ]