Re: Communists on the moon !
 

And I suppose that you know that all of these people were unarmed civilians. You have all of the intel that may have been available to those that made the decision. Many things done in military actions that are 100% legitimate look horrid and awful and evil to us as civilians. Perhaps as awfull as the terror tactics being used by the enemy. As awfull as small children having bombs strapped to their chests during Vietnam and told to go play around a US barracks while it is detonated by someone the child trusted? Do things that the other side do forgive what our side does to counter it? No. But put it in its context. Because context is everything when viewing the events of a war. Putting black hoods over the heads of people that were obviously suspected of something is no where near as bad as carting off millions of people to concentration camps for systematic extermination.

Have you asked several important questions? How many of the people where carted off? All of them? I doubt it. How many such raids are there?

As for those wanting to see the blood cost of Iraq before the US stepped in. This is the Iran Iraq war alone. Widespread use of chemical agents against civilian populations. Cruise misile strikes against civilian targets open bombing against civilian sites.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As for Kuwait:

An estimated number of 439 foreign nationals, 118 Kuwaiti soldiers and 113 Kuwaiti civilians were killed. Kuwait’s human loss was proportionately equivalent to about 400,000 Americans or 100,000 British.
The widespread landmines, estimated to be 2 million (92.4 mines per square kilometre or 1.1 mine per Kuwaiti), left many more dead and physically disabled.


And Amnesty International reported:
Methods of Iraqi torture included -
The methods included fracturing limbs and ribs, administration of electric shocks, burning naked body parts, pouring acid into the eyes eventually leading to blindness, subjecting victims to mock trials, etc. The Iraqis denied medical care to the Kuwaitis unless they changed their nationality to Iraq, a clear case of human rights violation.

[ December 12, 2003, 16:20: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

Whoops, didn't mean to put that here.

[ December 12, 2003, 16:27: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

Roanan wouldn’t it be nice if it was simple, then we could avoid war altogether and work on something else, such as Mars or even going back to the moon. Do I think oil and money are involved, yes, no HELL YES! I only asked that we not try to equate lost lives to oil, that would be the approximate of placing oil above lives. Some politicians may be doing that now with this war. In that case let use ask about oil and the deficit we are running up, or to elections that we can change, or even to letters that can be written to Congressmen and Representatives calling for this to stop.
Maybe in Germany you are getting reports that would not be shown here, but is your wife the one going? Are you getting more information from the news, or just altered information? Altered by the press I might add, as if they have ever given a straight picture. What information am I getting since I have for all intents and purposes a front row seat, you don’t. As far as the legality of this war, man that is an entire debate on its own, start another thread before you try to open that can of worms.
Finally you say “You saw the fear and terror in the faces of the civilians” what about 911, my point is you are right. Yes I said you are right, but you are not seeing the whole picture. Did you see the faces of the Kuwait’s that where raped, beaten, and killed by Saddam’s troops? I DID! Don’t preach about the wrong doings of one people unless you have thought about the why those people are acting that way. War is violence, point blank; the Army of ANY nation is a sword, not a scalpel. Also please NEVER compare the troops of my country or any other to the Nazi’s, no one who has troops in the area at present are attempting GENOCIDE.

[ December 12, 2003, 17:20: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

Good lord man, what ever happened to commies on the moon? I liked that discussion, it was very reasonable and pro-space-exploration. heck, it was even pro-multinational-space-exploration.

what the hell are we doing now, starting up another thread about the mideast? what do you people have against money and oil? i use both of those things every day, and if i had to pay as much money for my oil as the English do, well id be very upset.

wars happen everywhere, for all kinds of reasons. lots of people die for all kinds of reasons. just like in 'history', the only reason you can be certain of is that someone thought that 'it was a good idea at the time.'

come on guys, you're not going to convince each other of anything about the middle east, why not argue about conflict in Guyana - or can you only get worked up about what cable news feeds you, or what anti-establishment advocates are touting at the moment? Yeah, not everyone who is upset about current events is anti-establishment, but theres an entire culture of forkers out there who raise a stink no matter what is going on.

give it a rest, talk about the moon. I say we nuke it preemptively, before the commies can get it. if the free world cant have the cheese, no one can. thats what i say. ever notice how the moon is RED during a lunar eclipse? didnt think that was just a coincicende, did you? blow it out of the sky, while you still can.

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

Blow it out of the sky? No, rig one side with explosives and see if we can boost it into space at Mars, or didn’t you notice it was red also? Two birds with one stone is what I say. Then we can go to Europa and eat the fish like inhabitants under the ice instead of fishing our oceans out. Let’s change the subject back to the original thread and say every one is right and call it a day.

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

It is amazing how fast things can get out of hand when you bring in politics and war and greatly different view points. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Wow. Did all of that get started from a single little joke about Haliburton taking over moon resources? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I think we need a space elevator. Then we can really get rolling with the space exploration. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Blow up the moon! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Then we have massive earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and no major oceanic tides! Disaster!
And do you know how much force it would take to blow the moon into Mars! OUCH.

Besides... the Chinese are only planning unmanned probes... Some reports say the US is talking about a permanent presence, possibly at least partially military in nature.

Communist probes v manned military base. I think Capitalism wins again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Has to be a negative one in every group. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What are you talking about man? All we need to do is store our radioactive waste on the dark side of the moon, and the ensuing accidental explosion will surely catipult the thing not only to mars, but to the other side of the galaxy! Just think about the whacky adventures that the commander of Luna-one, our first moon base, will have!

and that was all over FOUR YEARS AGO!

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...says the one who started it - and doesn't want to stop it now?

Re: Communists on the moon !
 

I took his post as being comical in nature in reference to my not wanting to go along with the suggestion of destroying the moon and Mars.

Thus the nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif at the end.

[ December 12, 2003, 20:49: Message edited by: Cyrien ]