Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

On a Celestial Master it's like a free Power of the Spheres during battle. Which is very nice unless you like casting Geyser or Acid Bolt his entire career.

A Power of the Spheres and a Crystal Shield on a Master makes him able to cast nifty spells like Falling Fires, Falling Frost, Orb Lightning (effectively), and when he gets low on fatigue, Smite a billion times.

Unfortunately, the Computer doesn't say "Look we're at 99 Fatigue, I am only going to cast Holy spells" it says "Lets cast the most fatiguing spell I have"

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah! There we go=) I didn't know it raised divine as well. Hmmm... time to give one to my prophet=)

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh? Is this some special I don't know about? Or do you mean holy sites that give astral gems?

I was thinking a bit about a lack of xbows being a weakness for Tien Chi themes. But... indy xbows are pretty common, and I like them better... cheaper, lower resources. Assuming you find indy xbows (a good assumption) the TC non-default themes shouldn't be hindered.

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

Well every X-bow out there except the Hoburg is pricy in resources; thus you must build a Castle on it to be useful; while your main castles are left to build either Glaive, Spear/Shield Infantry, Compositebowmen, or Horsemen (bleh).

The Glaives are okay; but they get mowed down quite fast. I wish they would strap on a little more armor to them. An added bonus is they get torn up by your own missle fire; so once someone routs, your Glaive squad(s) are mincemeat.

I think the main fault is not having a cavalry to speak of. If they had more than a mediocre cavalry (like Barbarian Kings) they would at least have a shot at throwing back a heavy wave, or tearing up an enemy xbow core.

I think that is the main problem, because even the summons you get from using a Celestial Master (Wyverns) that you would use for Cavalry purposes get chewed up by your forced use of arrowfire.

Arrow Fend is out of reach of most Celestial Masters or Mot5E, but with a Power of the Spheres and a Shield they can do it. But I don't feel using 1 spell is the answer to a race/theme. At least unless they start with it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

I'm probably just playing them wrong ;/ I do have a fast start for S&A though, not as fast as a true quick race, but enough I wouldn't feel crippled. It's the midgame that really is cruel on S&A, with not enough Demons to make a heavy core, and no units to bolster those that you have.

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh? Is this some special I don't know about? Or do you mean holy sites that give astral gems?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats the one - sorry for the confusion.

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">20 Earth - bugger. I didn't realise they had gone up so much in cost. I guess I won't bother trying so hard to get them then.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is certainly an issue for S&A lacking the Lancers of BK. I find mages the only answer and as you say they have a tendency to go to sleep on the job. Still a few well placed fireballs and those indie Knights are fleeing.

In the long term missiles (Xbow or Comp) are not adequate so you need to transition to something else but what? BK can go HC but S&A only really has its mages and they will only do so much. My response to my first attempts at S&A is that they suck and that seems fairly close - give them more quality chariots and all that changes.

BK is better, playable, but deeply flawed due to the odd behaviour of the multi-armed cavalry. In practice you need to rely on Comp bow and HI to expand. The LC that should define the race end up optional and need higher precision to reflect their exceptional skills as horse archers (like maybe 10). Khans could do with an extra role and I still like the recruiting LC through conquest idea. At present the Generals are more rewarding as they have a bow to keep themselves busy while the standard affect of the Khan is hard to make use of.

Haven't played Main Theme Tien Chi much but they seem the strongest and more comparable to main stream Dom races.

Cheers

Keir

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They have very low accuracy (8 I think) so their shots are very rarely on target. I usually make Bows of Accuracy and give them to more powerfull and accurate generals (like Khans).

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They have very low accuracy (8 I think)[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thats right - same as the rest of your cavalry. As they can shoot they can get lucky and find themselves in the hall of fame which is always a source of entertainment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Hard for Khans, beyond the first, to get in until you get construction researched and have spare air gems for bows. I have a soft spot for Celestial Soldiers and spend my air gems on them.

It might not be much the General having a bow but I'm not sure the Khans ability is giving me any advantage using Tien Ch'i as a shooty race and they cost 20gps more.

Cheers

Keir

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

I've got an idea I have. All the Tien Ch'i mages are sacred so perhaps bless effects have a role to play.

The obvious one ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) is to take The Prince of Death with death9 and kill all my mages off (while blessed) and have them come back as 0 upkeep souless. Not so appealling for S&A as you would lose the flying from the Celestial masters but it would make the other Tien Ch'i mages much faster to move around. One of the best parts of this is that the PoD is a great pretender who doesn't cost much to boost.

Trouble is I haven't thought of a good way to kill my mages yet as Tien Ch'i. Breath of Winter on a mage surrounded by mates?

The other issue is what is the precision of a mage turned Souless like?

Earth could be strong with re-invigoration. Even earth4 would help those poor sleepy mages. Earth9 would be awesome for the Celestial Warriors but is very expensive.

Idea's, comments, criticism, appreciated.

Keir

Re: T\'ien Ch\'i, and how they rule!
 

Haven't tried Death 9 pretender yet but it sounds like a good choice. I think you are right; Breath of Winter could be best way to kill of CM’s and make them undead.
I think RM is worse choice since you get so many special holy troops waiting for right blessing. Not to mention that your Celestial Masters (and Masters of Five Elements if you use S&A) can find most of sites by themselves.
Fire or water 9 pretenders are good, and nature 9 is not bad either for Celestial Soldiers. Earth would do more good to Celestial Masters but big question is do you want to invest in them if you face Arco/Pythum, which can kill them in duels. I guess Earth choice would depend on game settings and opponents. The only choice that seems like a waste on them seems air since your sacred troops don’t need it or simply can cast it themselves.