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Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
In Dom I the spell was bugged for a long time and nobody knew. Then it was incorrectly fixed (IIRC) and it took a while to find that out too. It's entirely possible that it was always more feared than its actual effectiveness really justified.

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Do you have more chance of killing that enemy astral mage with Magic Duel, or with Soul Slay? Which one will kill *you* if you fail?

Definitely with MD, SS will target instead a size3+ critter up front, or even a lousy trooper. MD is a spell that targets specifically mages, and that's invaluable.

I usually make sure I will not fail, or the caster is expendable & I can replace him/her at a low cost compared to the return for a success...so probability is on my side anyway.

MD scripted mages also target the weakest astral mages first, so even with an astral king on your side you can suffer huge loses to an opponent with cheaper mages.

Quote:

Yes, Pythium is too good, especially in astral and communions. But there are 15 other nations you will face that AREN'T PYTHIUM. Just because something doesn't work against Pythium doesn't mean it doesn't work in general.
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It's not just Pythium. R'lyeh, Arco & Utgard Jotun can also wipe the floor with Grand Thaumaturgs. That's 4 nations out of 17, are you sure you can avoid all of them?

Anyway, excellent points in all these Last Posts. I still consider Broken Ermor magically vulnerable & unflexible, but I can see a couple redeeming qualities that I had missed before.

edit: I cannot count http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 06, 2004, 21:00: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Shadow Vestal's are not 'free'. They require a Thamaturg sitting there summoning them. Just a minor point; that needs to be stated. I used to think of them as free but they are actaully quite costly in both research and gold for the first 10 turns in you count what needs to be done.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by Wendigo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Chris Byler:
In Dom I the spell was bugged for a long time and nobody knew. Then it was incorrectly fixed (IIRC) and it took a while to find that out too. It's entirely possible that it was always more feared than its actual effectiveness really justified.

True, yet my Last recollection of its use is of a pretty recent game a couple months ago (with the bug fixed). I killed around half a dozen lv1 astral mages (arch seraphs with astral pick & shamen) with a single astral2 norna in a single battle. 3 of them died in just one casting.

<hr /></blockquote>Mind Duel is an area effect spell. So you should always disperse your Astral mages. It's a strange way for targeting the spell. But I think the reason is: if the spell is target on individuals, any successful kill on a Communion master will kill all the slaves also. It makes the spell potentially even more devastating.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

>Shadow Vestal's are not 'free'. They require a Thamaturg sitting there summoning them. Just a minor point; that needs to be stated. I used to think of them as free but they are actaully quite costly in both research and gold for the first 10 turns in you count what needs to be done.

This is absolutely correct. They are only gold/production free. They do cost a character-turn for each.

However they are well worth the cost. By about turn 12 you can send out a 20ish strong force of them as an extra independent cracking army. The extra expansion is well worth the cost in time spent generating them.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
It is my personal opinion that the Ermor [ashen empire/soul gate] should be Banned from multi-player. Not because they are potent, but becuase they are unfair to the players that start adjacent. Nations starting next to such Ermors are at a huge disadvantage since they are near a population "dead zone". They end up with much less resource in the world near them, not due to anything they did, but due to the bad luck of their starting position. It's such a glaring disadvantage that I'd rather not see these Ermor's in multiplay at all.

IMHO it is often an advantage to be next to Ermor. The Ashen dominion typically only hurts if you're looking at annexing Ermor's lands. As Ermor seems to be always starved for allies, in my experience it's not hard to ally with them, and work the situation to considerable advantage.

True, it sucks to be next to a Dominion 10 Ermor who just won't negotiate -- but that's not any worse than any other crazy neighbor who doesn't seem to care about winning.

Re: What do you think about ermor in dom2

Quote:

Originally posted by Wendigo:
The mages are far from cheap, only 1 in 8 of the higher class will roll astral 3.

Thaumaturgs are not that expensive, which is what the original poster was referring to for use as a communicant.

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All the above nations will Magic duel your Broken Empire mages to nothingess, so you either field no mages or lose them all. Unlike, say Marignon, Abysia or Midgard Vanheim who can choose to field their other (non astral) mages.

I think you overrate the danger of magic duel, as even in DOM 1 an astral 3 mage had a (3+1d6)/(5+1d6) chance of beating an astral 5 mage in a duel.