.com.unity Forums - Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

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- - Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead" (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=18014)

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

Another idea...

I think the weapons of many of the troops of Soulgate can be negated by a successful MR check. So, "Antimagic" might also help.

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

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Another idea...
I think the weapons of many of the troops of Soulgate can be negated by a successful MR check. So, "Antimagic" might also help.

Yes MR protects from so-called "Spectral" weapons. Thanks. I have access to Antimagic spell and will use if needed.
Note: in the first epic battle with my Herald Lanced Initiates the Undead armies barely even got close enough to engage so wasn't an issue but could become one.

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One idea...
Give the Herald Lance to Mount Kings. They kill half as fast but they're not affected by VoD. Mount Kings need only Death 1 so, even a Revenant should be able to cast it. Cheap mindless commanders, if you have access to any will also work.

Pretty good suggestion. I didn't realize Undead commnaders were immune. Will lose the quickness but at least it gives me options. Thanks.

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Soul-Gate's undeads have high MR. I don't know how well Consorts or priests work.

Soulgate=High MR is TRUE. I don't find I am able to produce enough inde priests (or Consorts for that matter) to handle the hoards of undead.
I was really loving those Sea Fathers (which I had never seen before and was delighted to happen upon) with Water*2, Holy*2.
Great combo is Quickness/Banishment but Sea Fathers are 170 Gold a pop.

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The suggestion of VoD being overpowered is around since almost day 1. People might disagree but your opinion is in no way biased.

That is a relief at least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

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He could have a powerful caster (his pretender) using it, so that your MR is not as effective. Otherwise, it could be a bug.

I hope it is the former as I hate losing to a bug (frustrating but still one of my fav games of all time).

Thanks for the advice Ywl and others.

The bottom line is the game is about over.
I will stick in for a few more turns but things look very grim.
Hoards of Undead impinging from all four corners.
I feel I had a good chance if it hadn't been for VotD.
My strategy didn't anticipate it.
Thats not an indictment (much) against the spell.
I mostly chalk it up to inexperience.

[ February 25, 2004, 18:44: Message edited by: pole_shift ]

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

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Originally posted by SurvivalistMerc:
You are serious that a killed "dead one" during a VotD attack counts as a killed creature for the next VotD? AND the killing of the "dead one" doesn't destroy the "dead one" for next time?

Yes, and yes.

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When you die, does your VotD count start over?

No. The spell appears to use the same counter as the commander's total kills for the HoF.

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

One thing to consider with VotD is for your commanders that got killed by it - what's their chance of surviving a seeking arrow ? what's their chance of surviving wind ride ?

VotD is a bit of a two edged sword insofar as under normal circumstances it can only target the commanders most likely to survive it.

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

The real problem woth VotD is that it's game-breaking: If you start targetting a commander with only 1 kill, in about 14 castings, the number of undead involved will be over 10000, and the game will surely have barfed. There really has to be a limit somewhere, if only for sanity.

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

If you mean that VotD should limit the total number of vengeful dead, so you don't end up with a battle that freezes the server, I would agree.

If you mean that the spell is too powerful because you can keep on casting it on one commander until you finally swamp him, I would disagree. The amount of resources you would have had to invest in casting the spell over and over (by a spellcaster with high enough penetration to overcome any MR of the target) would seem to justify the end result.

(Not to mention the effort you would have to expend to keep track of that one commander so as to target him. Or the various Dome spells that could be used to protect the voctim and/or hit back at the caster)

Re: Need to vent about "Vengeance of the Dead"

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Originally posted by GavinWheeler:
If you mean that VotD should limit the total number of vengeful dead, so you don't end up with a battle that freezes the server, I would agree.

That was my point, yes: The number of undead should be kept at a sane level so that the server doesn't simply die: Plus it brings up the auto-rout issues if the battle becomes TOO immensely long: The target in question may very well be able to utterly annihilate an unlimited quantity of the vengeful dead, since they can't harm him faster than he can regenerate, but the battle may very well easily drag out past 70 rounds: Does the targetted victim end up auto-routing and die automatically, or get automatically slain by the timer?

The fact that VotD has an exponential growth and no sanity brake is generally a bad thing, though, since it will very easily lock up the server in only a few castings.

[ February 26, 2004, 20:44: Message edited by: Norfleet ]