Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

What is the actual, precise formula for gun accuracy?

All rifles tend to have an accuracy of 1, and when you shift to MGs or sniper rifles it bounces up to 20+...

I understand the factors like fast response, no time to aim, guys manning several weapons at once etc., but shouldn't some rifles be pulled up a bit so the quality difference can really be on accuracy, without having to tweak the range?

Or has this theme already been discussed and buried? I should think it has... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

Actually, the MG-42 used heavy, speedy 7,92x57mm ammo ("8x57IS") with very flat trajectory (755-800 m/s, 3.600 - 5.000 J, effective range 800m with bipod, 3000-3500m on mounting).

The AK-47 uses slow 7,62x39mm bullet (710m/s, 2,010 J, effective range 300m).

Ak-74 uses high-velocity lightweight 5.45x39mm bullet (velocity: ~900 m/s, energy: ~1,350 J, effective range of around 400m because of flatter trajectory, the sights are zeroed for 300m)

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

I didn't read that for the AKs, but you seem to got really precise informations so, it must be true...

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

ammo performance
Those you can easily look up - Google will tell you a bunch of reliable sites which come up with congruent info.

effective range
A target is in effective range, if you can actually expect the weapon to have effect reliably (not random hits only).

For the AK-47 it's just the case that @400m you'll have to point it a little bit much "at the sky" rather than at the target, and the slow bullet is prone to wind drift etc. or to miss just because the target moved away. So you simply can't hit a target reliably at that range. Therefore it is generally attributed with an effective range of 300m.

The AK-74 is attributed with an effective range of 400m because of the faster bullet. It is also said that the small projectile has low stopping power, as it seems to simply go right through without breaking up (as the soft-core fullme tal jacket NATO 5,56 from M16 does). This would result in a lower HEkill factor, gamewise !?

The MG-43 @ 3000m is a little bit different, as this surely isn't aimed, but plugging area fire. Using a heavy tripod, the MG is "converted" into a HMG. Traverse in every direction can be limited seperatly, therefore a "kill zone" can be set up beforehand and later "sprayed" with bullets.
Direct fire using the tripod and attached scope is possible up to 1600m or something, IIRC from the time I had to fiddle around with it's successor MG-3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

Sorry, but I disagree with you on this one. I am convinced that it is messed up coding in the game from the DOS version and it still exists in winMBT. Here is another lovely prime example that just happened about 5 minutes ago:

BMP 1 that has not moved in 4 turns fire at an immobilized LUCHS. Main gun 33%, MISSED. Missile 34% chance MISSED. MG 45% MISSED (why such low %, especially with the missile?). LUCHS returns fire 25% KILLS (1 shot 1 kill). Move in a ZSU 23-4 to take him out; 34% chance MISSED, LUCHS returns fire 24% KILLS (2 shots, 2 kills). Move in another ZSU 23-4 SAME RESULTS (3 shots, 3 kills). Then move another BMP down a road and come across a partial (3 men routed) sqd. BMP stops from 100 yards and opens fire, NO EFFECT. Routed sqd (22% chance) turn into supermen and kill the BMP. Move up a T62 AND THE SAME RESULTS! So in one turn I lost 6 vehicles all to 1 shot 1 kill with no % above 25% (explain that?). I was so frustrated and afraid to move that I didn't even finish my turn, I just ended it and sent it back to my opponent.

In my opinion this is a real flaw in the MBT series, and not matter how you explain it, it just doesn't make sense.

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

@Arralen:

Yep, true. Our Sa. vz. 58 rifle, also using 7.62x39mm ammo, has sights marked up to 800 meters, but the maximal effective range is considered 400meters at best.


@Weasel:

In such situations I tell to myself "sh1t happens"... I was also frustrated in an hotseat game where enemy BMP-2's were massacring my ATGM teams with 3% kills, but I have also seen this on my side.

Btw Ias for the infantry casaulties I tend to play with inf toughness set for 200 points each side.

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

You know depending on the design of the random number generator it might be reasonable to save and close the game re-open and continue play when you see a string of annoyingly low probability hits. For some of the possible design methods for the random number generator this will reinitialize randomSeed() and give you a whole set of pseudorandom numbers. Of course the random number generator might be designed in such a way that it would take a full restart of the computer to reinitialize randomSeed() or it may never be possible to reinitialize randomSeed().

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

I am doing this as it seems like a good idea. I ran a test against the computer AI and what I noticed is that the hits are realistic when playing the AI; 25% misses 75% of the time etc. In a PBEM game I have only been able to log 17 shots so far, but this is what I have:
4% 1H (HIT)
8% 1H
22% 1H
24% 3H
25% 3H
30% 2H
31% 1M (MISS)
33% 1M
34% 1H
35% 1H
53% 1H

Not too many misses after 17 shots is there? I will keep updating this. For this experiment I am only counting main guns, missiles, and a/c shots.

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

Heh heh if you want to watch the computer "get stuck" on low to hit numbers play the second campaigne where you have to make a river crossing and kill tons of tanks on the the other side after you have over come the "buried tanks" on the shore line and all the mines. I have played this one twice and every time I play the AI gets consistant hits and kills at anywhere from 3% to not more than 30% chance to hit. It ALWAYS gets low to hit kills on "key" equipment LOL this has been the rap of Steel Panthers since it first came out 10 years ago and not much has changed. Air Power is also poorly done "friendly fire" is the rule NOT the exception in this game (unless of course the AI is using it then it seems to behave correctly). I have had friendly aircraft divert 15 hexes to hit my own troops.

Re: winMBT low percentile hits
 

Then you really do not have a clue how to play this game. I suspect the AI beats you a lot. It's more than obvious from the posts you've been making. I have seen this complaint before and surprise, surprise when I call in an airstike it hit's the target I aim at because I target it correctly. Use the HQ or a FO, don't bring the strike in over terrain that obscures the target on the aircrafts run in and DO NOT target the aircrafts path through smoke or through enemy AA or SAMS as that throws off the aim as well. I almost NEVER get a blue on blue targeting airstrikes and anyone who does simple isn'ts doing it correctly. As for your allegation that the AI gets higher to hit % than the human play it is, to be blunt, total crap. There it N*O*T* *H* I* N* G in the code that gives the AI ANY kind of advantage over the human player like that.

You don't like the game and it seems you've had a "problem" with SP since it was released and you don't seem to enjoy any kind of challenging scenario or campaign so I really wonder why you bother

Don