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-   -   Whats in a bunker? (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39481)

Marek_Tucan July 17th, 2008 04:47 PM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
Yup, I take the "dug-in tanks" as heavily fortified and rather permanent forts.

Sniper23 July 18th, 2008 12:57 AM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
wow those are very neat to see!

Marcello July 18th, 2008 01:10 PM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
The first, the turret bunker, was an one of a kind affair built after 2003 for the new iraqi army.
The second and the third were the typical bunkers built to defend the beaches of kuwait from an american amphibious assault.
From what I read and I have been told these were meant to house nothing bigger than machine guns and soldiers (no antitank guns or such). Construction was generally very light, with thin walls made out of precast concrete, concrete blocks and perhaps even concrete filled cinderblocks. Nothing strong enough to withstand direct hit with modern artillery.
As a general rule the iraqis relied, in practice and by doctrine, on earthworks rather than reinforced concrete structures. Probably because the latter were faster and cheaper to build and to repair (and if you had to advance, abandoning them would be no big deal). Given the power of modern weapons a bunker capable of withstanding direct hits would require a significant expenditure of resources, so that approach was not senseless.
The near totality of the bunkers were simple dug shelter like the one in the last picture. Meant to house a squad, they were built by digging an hole and putting in place a steel support structure which was then covered with a thickness of sandabags/gravel and such. If built to paper specs it was supposed to protect against some mortar bombs.

Marek_Tucan July 31st, 2008 05:48 AM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
Found some interesting info about post-wwII Czechoslovakian fortifications.
Pre-wwII forts were reactivated and rearmed, where deemed feasible (ie Western and Southern border, against Germany and Austria). Heavy fortifications got their 47mm AT guns replaced after some time by modified ZIS-S-53 85mm guns from T-34/85. Otherwise, the attempts to design mounts allowing either SG-43 HMG's or vz.52 LMG's were unsuccessfull due to perceived high costs. The forts remained till their deactivation in 1990s armed with pre-ww2 vz.26 LMG's and vz.37 HMG's, both in 7.62x57mm.
After war, manz projects were made but in the end, onlz two main fighting objects made it - KZh-1 which was generallz a basic prefabricated pillbox for LMG/MMG and KZh-2 which allowed limited use of recoilless weapons (T-21 RR and P-27 RPG). In limited (and uncertain) numbers, KZh-3 objects were built. These objects consisted of concrete underground base with a T-34/85 turret in a fully rotating mount.
Earlier experiments counted on Panzer IV's being buried in concrete, without engine etc. and with crew shelter, but experiments against a prototype revealed the construction to be too vulnerable to 85mm AT guns.

Sniper23 August 7th, 2008 11:15 PM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
sorry it took so long to get back to you, havent been on here in 2 weeks and thank you for the info.

Marcello August 12th, 2008 12:50 PM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
More on turret bunkers types and configurations

Basic Type: tank stripped of the useless stuff (engine for example) and put in a concrete lined emplacement.
See this as example:
http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/3401/230200033ln.jpg
Note the concrete shelter for the crew on the right

Slight variant on the above: buried hull (I think at least)
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1...nanpiph5kx.jpg
Note the open hatch in the left, I bet that the engine space was converted in storage space for additional ammo and what not.

A more radical conversion: the hull is discarded and the turret is put in a purpose built concrete bunker. See here one built using an early T-54 turret.
http://www.fortification.ru/uploads/Polt_UR_3_a.jpg
Also note the bunker entrance.

Another one
http://www.shatoon.ru/gallery_krabbe...h/DSC01387.JPG
Note the concrete base is shaped in such a way to protect the turret ring.

In regard to concentration typically you will not see walls of them but that does not mean that they are absolutely never grouped together

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/518/02dv4.jpg

All these pictures were found on tanknet

Marek_Tucan August 12th, 2008 02:23 PM

Re: Whats in a bunker?
 
A shame to find that Russian page has the best online info about our KZh-3 object (ours are rather sparse on the info), but anyway here it is. Many interesting pictures.

http://vn-parabellum.com/fort/t34-turret-pb.html


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