Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wrong.

Correct is (total facility production)*(planet value)*(population, happiness, racial characteristics)*(planet bonus facility)*(system bonus facility)

So in that organic farm and robotoid factory example it means: 1000 * 1.02 * (1.0 + 0.30 + 0.10) * 1.30 = 1020 * 1.40 * 1.30 = 1856

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

I found an interesting glitch.

I'm currently at war with everyone (I think i'm the mega-evil empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), so i'm annihilating their fleets and then using "puppet political parties" to gain control of their worlds. Well, I used it on one planet which separated from the empire to form it's own empire, and then I demanded its surrender (which they accepted). I just checked that planet and it has 1000M/500M population. (The planet also changed type to Homeworld, but that was expected)

I'm checking all the other planets that have be sbujected to this series of events, and so far it has affected them all.

This is using se4 gold 1.84 w/o any mods.

Edit: if you want to see what i'm talking about, I can send you the savegame or try and post a pic.

[ February 07, 2004, 19:53: Message edited by: oogs ]

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wrong.

Correct is (total facility production)*(planet value)*(population, happiness, racial characteristics)*(planet bonus facility)*(system bonus facility)

So in that organic farm and robotoid factory example it means: 1000 * 1.02 * (1.0 + 0.30 + 0.10) * 1.30 = 1020 * 1.40 * 1.30 = 1856 </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hrm... some people spend far too much time mapping out all of the formulae and not actually playing the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 07, 2004, 20:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">uh...ya. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Modding is not the same as spending your time figuring out how you can change the game from a game to a competition. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is a long-known anomaly. When you conquer a fully populated planet owned by an empire with 'advanced storage' ability it doesn't carry over the advanced storage ability. So you can end up with planets holding more than their rated population. You can also drop far more troops on a planet than it can hold (regardless of 'advanced storage') simply because putting a limit on troops because of cargo space would make for a defense exploit of filling up your planet's cargo space to prevent invasion. After the invasion succeeds you have to remove the excess cargo to be able to do anything with the space.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Would advanced storage ability let you store 1000M on a planet which would otherwise hold only 500M? 1000M/500M sounds too much?

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

I think it's really a bug that doubles any population on a planet when it rebels; IIRC that was fixed in some beta or another but I'm not a beta tester and I don't want to go searching through this thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And here it is! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

oh... maybe i need new glasses... i didn't see that one.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If a mine cannot damage any of the ships present, it will not detonate.

EG: Weapons-only damage warheads on a mine will cause it to sit idle and let cargo ships pass, only detonating when an armed ship wanders by.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Ok let me rephrase: normal mines, with normal damage warheads, always detonate or get swept, as long as there are still enemy ships to blow up.

[ February 08, 2004, 18:02: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Version 1.90:
1. Fixed - Descriptions for the Facilities changed in the Last Version were still old.
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais.
3. Changed - Added black drop shadow to "Version" and "Loading" text on main screen.
4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game.
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
6. Added - "Order By Name" and "Order By Class" buttons to the Scrap window.
7. Fixed - The View Orders window would show the name of unexplored systems.
8. Fixed - Attempting to colonize in an unexplored system would sometimes show the planets in the sector.
9. Fixed - Rare Access Violation bug during Movement Log Replay.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh (bleep) yeah!

This is truely great. Very, very nice. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Care to show this off, David?

[ February 11, 2004, 21:03: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh My God !!!

It opens so many moding avenues... Pirates & Nomads need a rework ASAP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Aaron, if you're reading this, you're the best developper ever. Forget SE5, that points generation thing will do just fine.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

"4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game."

Whoohoo!

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Care to show this off, David? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Patience grasshopper, good things come to those who wait.. (in the meanwhile, if you want to look at a pretty picture, download my Miner's Guild mod and drool over that intro pic.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Care to show this off, David? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Patience grasshopper, good things come to those who wait.. (in the meanwhile, if you want to look at a pretty picture, download my Miner's Guild mod and drool over that intro pic.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...or check out this little teaser for the new Version of Devnull Mod Gold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . ...uhmm okay, that was not done by the master himself, only by one of his students http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

I'm glad to see Aaron added #5 and #6, two little items I had bugged him about recently!

Can anyone say space lab? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

A great list of changes, but where are those comma separated lists? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I would settle for just expanding the options to contain all permutations if changing the vehicle and target type fields in components.txt to handle comma separated lists would be too much work...

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

You know he does listen to the fans - this are great changes - but i guess forget SE5 or at least continue updating SE4 until the Version of SE5 comes out - they will still keep getting the revenues from purchases so updates will keep fans interested - perhaps a small charge for each major update is another source of revenues say $3-$5 for Version 2 and Version 2.1 etc. ANd minor patch fixes in between.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

I'm still hoping for the 'requires ability' restriction for Warp Points. If we get that we can have 'jump engines' and a whole new class of mods with 'star ships' and 'system ships' as seperate types. The only possible disadvantage of this, as far as I can see, is if the AI can't understand the distinction and fleets them together indifferently and/or starts trying to send system ships through warp points.

But even then you could have some very cool games with only human players as intersteller empires and AIs serving as neutrals.

[ February 12, 2004, 00:47: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Im sure aaron and co are working on each upgrade and tweaking the AI to make it tougher with each new feature and upgrade. The require ability is probably best with warp points. Perhaps it could be a racial ability or not ?

You raise some good points for them to consider - well they read the forums anway so its all good. Im sure the game will be much better for it to.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh My God !!!

It opens so many moding avenues... Pirates & Nomads need a rework ASAP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Star Trek Mod 2.0 is really going to benifit from this latest patch when it is released. Or at least I hope it will beneifit from it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope to never see a day when you have to pay for patches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

What im talking about is $3-$5 for major patches but the offset would be to lower the games price - this would act as motivation for MM to continue to upgrade the game and support it for longer and they get continous revenues + you only need to buy every 2nd or 3rd patch. Perhaps $25 for the game and $3 for each upgrade - makes the game cheaper for newbies - thats the offset im talking about - but its just discussion thats all.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

MM has already supported the game for over 3 years! It is time to move on to SE5. You simply can not do nearly as much improvement with just upgrades, you have to rebuild the game engine. This requires the next game in the series.

Free patches or bust!

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Originally posted by Mephisto:
...
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
...
--------------------------------------------------
Oh My God http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ,Q1:Does this mean that you can have orbital bases that can generate research/Intell points,in space http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ??.Q2:But only if a modder implements this in there mod,like dennullven/D-mod/Star trek modes??.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Research intel projects in space - well it would add portability to an empires resource / research / production and intel generating capacity.

Would open up new possibilities for the game. Might even lead to a few new tech areas being expanded and more racial traits into the game.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Wow, these are nice additions to the game! Intel- and research- generating ships... yeah! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

should make P&N more fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

You know ship generating research and intel is an idea but perhaps their should be a high maintence cost to offset to make sure the tactic isnt abused but is a viable alternative - perhaps a population requirement.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

"5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
"

Ok, wow, awesome, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now for the big question, does this mean I can finally have planets that generate resources independant of thier facilities. (ie, a planet that houses an ancient alien monestary, provides 1000 research per turn....)

can these points be affected by facilities if added to planets? (ie, the planetary/system bonuses)

What exactly are these points?? (I'm assuming minerals/rads/organics/research/intel but is it possible to add ones that affect a planets 'build time' for items/ships?)

could you have asteroids that generate intel/research when you mine them??

As you see this has piqued my modding curiosity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Ditto to what Q just said.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I know. This would be fantastic, but I think it will have to wait until se5, since it would probably risk introducing too many new bugs to se4.
This alteration would be best if combined with an ability that allows ships to hold and launch other ships subject to (moddable) size and component restrictions - That way fighters could simply be handled as small ship hulls with no warp ability - more modding possibilities.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And with a viking destroyer in there as well. To quote the man himself: "We thought you would like it. Are not our goods the best in the galaxy?"

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Probably

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I doubt it, but that would be really really nice.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">From the wording of the history file I'm thinking no, but it would be nice to have that flexibility.

Finally, I really hope all you wonderful modders are planning how your mods *coughProportionscoughcough* can be improved and updated by all these wonderful new toys once the patch comes out.

[ February 12, 2004, 14:52: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

I am also wondering from a map making if that means that we can set these abilities for planets... So a 1 slot planet you can build the yard... and the planet generates resources... Would be really cool for making maps ( and moding the system creation text files for limited resource games.

Which is the way I want the sweet mod to go for the long term vision of the mod.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Will this patch be backwards compatable with current games?

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

OMG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh my. All my prayers have been answered. This alone is the single best change ever to the game, in my opinion anyway!!

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh my. All my prayers have been answered. This alone is the single best change ever to the game, in my opinion anyway!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would tend to agree with you there Ruatha! This patch will be truely amazing to play the game with.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, as always.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If this is available to anyone then there might indeed be balance problems. If it is used as intended by those of us who have been begging for it (for 'nomadic' races only) they will face the same trade-off as anyone else. Putting too much into research or intel will tend to reduce the amount of resources they can harvest, and so restrain their economic/military power. It's all a question of properly designingthe game conditions where the ability is used.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

This patch exceeds all my expectations! Excellent work MM!!
Any idea of the release date?
But if MM continues to add such excellent changes to the Last patch as the points generation for components, I am ready to wait for a long time.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Q wrote:This patch exceeds all my expectations! Excellent work MM!!
Any idea of the release date?
But if MM continues to add such excellent changes to the Last patch as the points generation for components, I am ready to wait for a long time.-----------------------------------------------------
I agree all the way Man http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . Think of fellow players & modders.Spaceyard-ships in a Nebula or storm opaque secter/systems,Building a Orbital-Base Research/Intell stations,Hidden from ai fleets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif .

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You could even design a mod where every planet provides a fixed amount of resources per turn the moment you colonise it, and then you build facilities to modify that amount.

Not sure why you'd want to do that, but it might be cool anyway...

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

And in the meantime we play PBW and blow each other up and generate new ideas - true nomadic races is an interesting idea and the modders should go near spastic over it.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

well dog that would be really cool for a limited resource game... where there are really only a few planets that produce resources... and i am hoping when this little gate gets turned on all the abilities get turned on for objects

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

Version 1.91:
1. Changed - Revised title screen bitmap to make the buttons more visible.
2. Fixed - Upgrading just 1 facility would incorrectly upgrade them all.
3. Fixed - Bug from Last Version resulted in huge spikes in intel and research points.
4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships.
5. Fixed - Cloaked planets were allowing you to add multiple spaceyards to them.
6. Fixed - A planet that was damaged and lost its cloaking facility would not decloak.
7. Fixed - A planet that scrapped its cloaking facility would not decloak.
8. Added - You can now use an override field for Vehicle Type in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.
9. Added - You can now use an override field for Weapon Target in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Woohoo! *cries tears of exultant joy*

Re: Post 1.84 beta history
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">what?