Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

You can have any arrangement that you want. The game engine does not however enforce them.

You can share items, gold, and gems via the messaging interface.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

I think you can make alliance. It just requires some coordination.

Most of the times I try to agree on a common border.

Other things you can do: trade Magic items, gems.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

About alliances I have to say that the world wide alliance against Ermor on turn 20 something is a little tiersome. It's quite difficult to handle. As one would expect.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

I don't have a world wide alliance against you... I am only in it for myself. I have no control if others want to take a nibble of your vast empire.

You have already taken the positions of two of the starting players (Ctis who staled to death and Atlantis who was dominioned to death).

I don't have any indies left to munch in my region, so rather than sitting on my butt, I have been (unsuccessfully) attacking you.

I figure that you can afford to lose a couple of provinces, and perhaps that is how you are viewed by some of the other players.

As you are currently leading in provinces, castles, and gems, and near the top in the other catagories (except income of course), I don't see why you don't see yourself as a target for aggession.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Ahh the classic dogpile. Of course, its not really in the REST of the players interest to see ermor dissected so quickly, since you will simply emerge stronger from it.

In fact, maybe one of your neighbours could profit while you are so busy with ermor... hmmm?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Anatoli11,

I find it funny what you did. I now realize that you had perhaps the 2nd most powerful nation in the world. It is unlikely that any other nation in the world could fend off your vast Vine Ogre armies ( and considering their size I am quite sure that you are now making Vine Ogres at a 1 gem per 3 Ogre rate and perhaps with, I would guess around 15 mages ). You could have easily crushed anyone else. My army is somewhat suited to take you on, and I am well castled so it takes more time to kill me.

You could have been a real contender in this game, but instead you attcked the only person who could stand in your way, and a person who holds grudges. I will take you out 1st if I am able. I assure you.

You figure *WRONG*. If I have the chance I will kill you 1st. No doubt about it. I may even not attack Ulm any more. I will try to fend off Marignon, but you are my primary target make no mistake. If I have a chance, and let's be honest you guys are taking it to me, I will kill you.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Perhaps I overstated the number of mages you are using to summon. Perhaps you are only using around 10 ( which means 30 per turn ) ... but 15 is possible. I would have to look at the graph again to make sure.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Wow, I have to get some scouts up there to watch these battles...

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Well you know where I live... My ogres are shaking in their green booties...

Hey, I'm just playing this game to have some fun and make some friends (as much as you can in a aggresive, back-stabbing, combat-based game).

If your motivation in the game is to kick my *ss from here to Karan, then go for it. I'm a pretty new player (this is my 4th MP game, none completed), so my motivation and tactics in attacking you might not be too sound, but thats part of playing and learning the game IMO. You're an experienced player - come teach me a lesson in winning in multi-player games...

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Oh yeah, I think we are all playing for fun here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Huz just likes to focus all his pain and rage on one target, in a cathartic orgy of destruction. And you're IT! Lucky you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Uh hun. I doubt I have any more than that.

Tough talk from a person who has 2 allies attacking me at the same time.

I have little time for people who instigate dogpiles. I hope I am able to crush you. I will laugh at how pathetic you are if you can not kill me with 3 people attacking me at the same time.

Seriously, pathetic.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Well yes and no. You know how much I despise dogpiles. They seem to always happen though. We'll see how this works out.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Becuase they are singularly logical. The best way to pursue a military conflict is with overwhelming force, with as many allies as you can muster.

Napoleon's dictum was "I would rather fight Allies than be one" and look where that got him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

If, in fact, 3 nations cannot beat you, then their dogpiling will have been thoroughly justified http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

In the meantime... fight allies with allies!

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Look at the graphs. Ermor is #1 in provinces, forts (by a huge margin), gem income, army size, and victory points, and 2nd in research and dominion. At this point Ermor isn't going to be beaten without multiple people attacking him. It's not unfair, unexpected, or illogical that an Ermor dogpile happens when Ermor is so far in the lead. I don't know how you could have avoided it, but it isn't unheard of for Ermor to make some friends of his own. Maybe he'd have to bribe them, but a bribed ally is better than no ally. I won my Last game by allying with Ermor, persuading everyone else to focus on him, and then picking off people when they were only thinking of Ermor. Ermor and I ended up as the two strongest nations, but I managed to amass a bit more power than he did before the final showdown.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Ha! The margin is not large in any of those statistics. And the army graph is as always not horribly useful since it is quality of troops which generally determine battles not quanity. I would much rather have one vine ogre than one ermorian undead. And the ratio is nearly there.

#1 in gems means I have a rainbow. My mistake. Wanted to play around, should have made an SC.

As for the forts, what do you think I am going to spend my money on? Forts == troops for Ermor.

Making an assessment like that from the graphs is totally crazy. *if* I survive what is currently going on the method through which I do it will totally not be captured by the graphs. I can only hope that I do survive but the only way is via a great difference in .. well I won't get into it.

Got to agree with that though. Completely logical.

If they can not beat me, well you know what it means. There should be *no way* that I could survive this. None, zero, zip.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Oh and Yossar you should know how inaccurate the graphs can be. You are playing Mictlain. The graphs totally do not capture your power. They capture but the smallest fraction of it.

However I have to say that without soul contrats your power is greatly limited. OTOH it just means more vampires.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Well Vampire Lords may not summon allies, as per our house rules, so they may not be the best play either.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Anyway I don't want to be a sour puss anymore. I'll just take my lumps.

Time to go look at the destruction rained upon me.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Who would you think is even close to being more powerful than you? Pangaea? Vine ogres are great tanks, but aren't too hard to deal with with their horrible defense and MR. Your research and gem income are much better than Pangaea's. Your army is large but mostly worthless, but your research and gems you clearly have the ability to mix quite a few tougher units in there. The graphs leave a lot to be desired (but with no hidden gem income from clams, etc. the graphs are better than usual) but that and a bit of scouting are all most people have to go by for information. And they show you to clearly be in first place. The only nations that are really hard to gauge from the graphs are the blood nations. Who knows what kind of blood income Mictlan, Abysia, Jotun, and Vanheim have? And how many ice and arch devils have been summonned? The graphs aren't going to show that. I guess it is a bit telling that I'm the only other nation with a second Victory Point, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Uhm, let's see: Marignon, Man, Arcosphale, Matchaka, or T'ien Ch'i( he's doing a great job with a nation considered weak)?

WRT: the troops graph, Pangea's statistics look very good due to free spawns. Man's stats are 100% quality troops. I've been fighting him those numbers ain't archers. They are Vine Ogres. Which are FINE troops in those numbers let me assure you.

Unless you have access to 'save or die' spells that's a lot of HP to pound through. They Last a long time. All that time his mages pound the crap out of you. He needs those mages anyway to lead that number of magical units he might as well use them.

Hey if you have a good way to obliterate crazy numbers of vine ogres I am all ears. Remember this is hard research. Don't go telling me to spam nether darts or use disintegrate those are a little too high. No soul slay either I'm not Arcosphale or Pythium. No polymorph it's too high up and I'm a death nation. Wrathful skies would be great. Sadly I'm not Caelum. I've basically got to pound through those HP. I ( very sadly ) had to use Behomoths Last time to crush his 1st army and it hurt me way more than it hurt him. Those are expensive units and they are suboptimal against such large troops I would have much rather used them against Ulm or marignon, but Man forced my hand.

This is 100% correct. They are still flawed but they are *much* better than normal where they have almost no link to reality!

By how much, exactly? I have 1 province more than 1 nation and 3 other nations are lagging me by 1 more. Sounds like spin to me, honestly. 5 nations are basically in a tie for research. We've already discussed the army graph -- it's pretty much worthless. The only graph I am ahead by is gems and sadly that is due to a rainbow pretender which is why I am in this pickle. If I had an SC I would wipe away the chaff before me.

If I'm ahead then it ain't by much 4-5 nations are pretty darn close. And one more ( man ) has a lot more strength ( due to I have to conceed a very nice equipping of mages ) than the graphs show.

Well it's kind of irrelevant since I think you are the only one being played by a human. I have little doubt where the 11 SCs will land. Anytime I have played Mictlain and been left alone for as long as you have it's been trouble for the rest of the world. However you are missing Soul Contracts, lucky for us or the game would basically be decided by now.

Anyway I'll fight it out. Who knows what will happen. Maybe some random fortune will save me or something. We'll see.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Jotun is human controlled, has a base slave income of 3, a blood magic 40 (!) site, and starts with two W3B2 mages. It's a setup that practically screams Ice Devil. I'm not sure if he decided to go that route, but I chose a somewhat ineficient path to start with (I'm a Mictlan newbie), so if he did he could have easily beaten me to most of them.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Indeed, underestimate Jotunheim on this map at your own peril. The Triple Peaks province is all things considered the single best place for ritual magic in the world as it has gem reducing effects for several paths, all of them with magic that Jotunheim commonly uses. Not quite as specialised as some nations get, but certainly nothing to ignore.

As for Ermor, if Ermor controls three starting capitals, it is perfectly reasonable for a few other players on his borders to unite to take him down. Especially considering the very, very, powerful sites under Ermor's control. Not attempting to do so would likely be suicidal in the long run if Ermor is already pushing dominion. The real question is why Ermor does not have any allies.

Surely, there must be somebody bordering those dastardly attackers, who disrespect the imperial way of unlife, who would be willing to take a province or three while the armies are away fighting the risen dead. Perhaps if Ermor sent them a gift? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Arco, Jotun and Machaka are the ones who have me worried. They are being very quiet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

I am only quiet because I have no idea of what I am doing ...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Totally agree. I did not notice that they were being played by a human. My mistake!

Sadly it does not and never has. I have not been been able to take C'tis as when I was about to devour it I was dogpiled. And I will now never have it. However if this distortion makes the pathetic alliance feel better then great for them.

I can assure you the price for such things is quite high. It's like getting money from a shrewd negotiator: if you do not need the money the cost is cheap, when you are desperate the cost is very high.

Anyway I'll go back to taking my beating like a man ... or something!

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Baboune, your first MP game?

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

So Huzurdaddi you're back to where you started... and you messaged me that you want me to continue trash talking you...

Well, here goes: No one else has taken any provinces off of you, you've killed 6 turns worth of vine ogres & a few leaders, and you havn't been able to invade my territory... so I'm still waiting for the big hurt you've promised me.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Could have fooled me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You are doing great! It looks like you are getting a real handle on the game. My hat's off to you.

They haven't? You sure about that? Perhaps you want to talk to your allies.

No kidding. I wonder why I could not press against you. Perhaps it was your allies again pushing me. Maybe. You are still my #1 target.

And no, I don't want you to continue trash talking, I want you to die. It's really that simple. Dogpiling has always disgusted me. Especially dog piling at this stage of the game.

35 vine ogres a turn. Good to know.

I always said: if I am able. Let's face facts the deck is HORRIBLY in your favor. 4 nations versus 1 is tough odds for anyone to survive. That I am not dead yet is pathetic on your part. Pathetic.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Anyway I'm through with the trash talking/sulking as I said in an earlier post. I'm going to take my lumps and put out as many as I can while I go down.

I've also expressed what I think of dogpiling. I understand why it is done, I don't have to like it though.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

ermor is so powerful that he has knocked umh to a stop is crushing man (whining about vine orgers but driving over them..bad show). and i will also join the fray but i am in bad shape and do not stand a chance. it would have been nice if one of the power houses had done this but. currently a "dogpile" of a few weak nations taking on a giant is not unreasonable. BAD show Huzurdaddi of ermor. flaming unjustly. from my pt of view you have gain teritory over all and it will take more players to attack you to even make a dent in your conquests. BTW this is a classic example of weaker nations baning loosly together and would be a normal game stratagy.
anyone able to field some 550+ quality undead per turn (at least the Last 3turns) should not complain about unfair treatment. well done Man for trying to slow ermor sorry that you are probably dead (o well i am next) as a side note: originally, i hoped just to knock you down a notch but you may take this too personally and it may have to be a "death match".
i have greatly enjoyed this game to date and look forward to more battles i hope i can make it challanging for all.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

No but It is my first time in such a good position (in terms of score).
I hav outran my plans...

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Rex,

I have never seen a post that has made me more angry. I have controlled myself and deleted my 1st reply.

Disgusting.

I would normally go AI at this point since it is not worth the agrivation of playing a game this way. But I want to insure that I do not reward bad behaviour. I don't want to reward distortions and lies. I want to do what little I can to insure that people that make such clams gain as little as possible from them.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Rex,

seriously do you think people are stupid? You know graphs are on don't you?

You are 4th in provinces, only 1 behind the next two players ahead of you. You are #1 by a good amount in income. You are #3 in gems. You are #2 in research. You are #4 in army size. My god. Seriously how dare you say this kind of drivel?

When I was attacked I was attacked by the #3 in army size, plus the #4 in army size as well as the #5 in army size. I mean seriously who the heck is kidding who? I was also attacking C'tis who had an army which was middle of the pack. Sure I was #1 in army size but the combination of just Ulm and Man had almost as many troops ( and of let's be honest greater quality ). With the addition of your troops ( or hell C'tis ) it's not even close.

You don't want to call that a dog pile? I honestly don't know who you are trying to deceive. I despise that type of spin. Honestly. I *hate* it.

I really don't want to continue a discussion about the anti-ermor alliance, but I *will* refute mindless drivel like this. Lying simply will not be tolerated.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

To put it more diplomatically that Huz:

Marignon is in excellent shape. I am not sure why he thinks he is doing badly.

Ermor is only seriously ahead in castles and gems... even in army size where ermor is usally dominant he is not in first, albeit probably due to the current war.

I think Man and Ulm are clearly a good match for Ermor... enough to create a somewhat of a stalemated situation for the moment. Marignon obviously will tip the scales... that much is clear to an outside observer.

Let's not let tempers run too hot. It's just a flipping game. The flaming and arguing are completely unneccessary. And it it irritates me to see it apparently building up in such a bizarre manner.

There is no need, no point, no purpose, to get emotional over a game.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Well it looks like your lies worked Rex, congratulations. More join the cause.

I love liars. They are great.

No, let's. When liars succeed at *anything* it's bad. That where the line is drawn.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

I would really like to be able to know who is at war with whom, who has a treaty with whom, etc.
So for a start:
Arcoschephale:
War with Abyssia and Pythium.
NAP with Mictlan and Machaka.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Can't NAPs be secret?

Can't wars be secret too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Ermor is currently at war with:

Marignon
Man
Ulm
C'tis

and it looks like starting next turn:

Matchaka.

I know this destroys my advantage in the asymmetry of information, but at this point who cares! Ermor's time as a power who can win the game is offically over. However Ermor can and will still hurt those who attack it as much as possible.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Confirimed: Matchaka decided to join into the dogpile as well. How comical.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Some comments:

1) Ermor has diplomacy problems. Everyone who plays Ermor knows that going in. The Last thing you should be doing is to exacerbate the problem by threatening everyone.

2) Anatoli did not instigate any global alliance against you. So far as I know, everyone is individually responding to the game situation.

3) Personally, I chose to attack you because I was getting annoyed by your complaints in this forum. And I agree with those who say that you're the one who seems to be making it too personal.

4) I'm still open to negotiations. PM me if you have an offer to make.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

BTW, I threatened no one. I was totally congenial in game to all of my neighbors ( except for one : Ulm who took a province that I wanted *very* badly, however in the end I moved my forces at his request away from his border even though I had far greater numbers. He subsequently attacked me ).

I only become upset when people piled on to me. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I think you would be upset if the suitation was reversed.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

I had something really weird happen today. I played my turn and hit end turn. Immediately my turn came back up with a message that I had staled. Sure enough, every action I took during turn 30 was gone.

Anyone ever see anything like that?

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

A couple of things come to mind as possibilities:

1) You were pretty close to the end of the time limit. You started your turn before the timer ended and while you were taking your turn ( at this point in the game turns start taking a long time ) the game hosted. Then you ended your turn which summitted the turn to the server, however it had already hosted so it told you had a stale turn and dl'ed the new turn.

2) You checked one time eariler to see if everyone had taken their turn and dl'ed your turn without you knowing. You did nothing with your turn since you did not even know that you had dl'ed it. As soon as you connected the next time the program uploaded your turn for you behind the scenes thus "playing" your turn. Since you were the Last person it quickhosted while you were doing what you thought would be your turn. When you ended your turn the client attempted to upload but found out that the previous turn had already been hosted and dl'ed the new turn.

Actually I'm betting it was #1 since it said "stale turn" I don't think ( but don't know for sure ) that the 2nd sceanrio would cause a "stale turn" message. It would just execute nothing.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

When I saw your post, I thought "I bet Nappa is playing Pangaea". Sure enough, you are. You took your turn too close to the end of the time limit and the game hosted while you were still making your moves. Nothing gets uploaded until you hit "End turn." If it's close to hosting time, make all your major moves, hit "End Turn" to make sure they get in on time, and then go back and make all the minor changes you have to and hope that you can get them in on time.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Thanks guys, that makes sense. That was a painful lesson.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Hi,
I got a message from host saying that Mictlan is cheating?!? What is that? Something auto-generated? A bug?

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

Not sure!

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

There have been reports on the forums that using the alchemist's stone can cause that report. So it very well could be nothing.

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

server down?

Re: Fools Lament II - Newbies Welcome
 

I was just able to connect.

Sometimes Dom2 is a little flakey and you have to try a couple of times to connect.