Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

It's a pointless debate : in fact the message "we declare war" makes no sense from a gaming standpoint ! In Dom everyone is *always* at war with everyone else.
So if the message was changed to "we love you and kiss your feet/tentacle/stand/whatever" would you be happier ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

PDF : The pointless declarations of war aren't the real point, although it's just not true that everyone is always at war with everyone. When the AI can have armies on your borders and _not_ attack for 10+ turns, it's not exactly a on a war footing / status.

But the real irration (at least with Dom2, haven't seen it yet with Dom3) is that those irrational declarations of war from nations still 20 provinces away, lead to ranged artillery spells being cast that couldn't possibly be targetted without AI cheating.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

It could be finding you with scouts. I'm seeing a lot of AI scouts wandering my provinces.

It's almost like a grudge thing. Oceania insisted on declaring war on me every other turn (I was Ulm) despite not being able to see me (and since they were surrounded by Ry'leh I don't see how they could get to me). The occaisional war declaration came in from Sauromantia, but they were next to me.Oceania were eventually crushed by Ry'leh, without ever actually taking action against me.

Mind you, Ry'leh never declared war and spent an inordinate amount of time trying to dream kill my prophet.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Archonsod : _NO_ it can't be finding me with scouts. I start _eight_ bloody provinces away, my scouts didn't go that way. Yet it declared war on turn _FOUR_.

For Dog's sake, read the flooding thread!

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

That’s not true actually. You are not in automatic war with everyone from turn 1. Also, there is small and subtle 'diplomatic system' (it's a bit of stretch). And those 2 messages that AI can send you have important meaning.

Let me elaborate. When you start game you are in neutral relations with everyone. If you come in contact with another empire, they will not attack you unless you attack them (you declare war that way) or they send you a message that they are declaring war with you (they can attack on the same turn they send message). Assassinations count as attack and declaration of war btw. and so do offensive spells directed at them specifically. When they go to war with you, and there hasn't been any fighting between your 2 nations for a while, an uneasy peace will kick in. How long it takes for it to happen is hard to tell. After that AI may declare war on you again (that is why you may receive multiple war messages from same nation).
If, however, you actually kill enemy pretender a total war comes in place and there will never be peace until one of your nations is completely destroyed. That is why you receive that message when you kill enemy pretender - it means exactly what it says, permanent war.

So, as you can see, there is some simple 'diplomacy system' in game after all. It was the same in Dom2 as well. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell at what diplomatic state you are with another nation other than those messages.

As far as declaring war over the whole map is concerned, AI DOES know whole map. However, AI will build scouts and spies, cast scrying spells or Eyes of the God, and do whatever player is doing in order to get information about the playworld around him. That way AI SIMULATES the need to have scouts and spies although he doesn't really need to. That way you are on more/less even terms with AI regarding scouting. You will spend resources for it and AI will spend resources for it. Because of the fact that AI knows whole map it may happen that you get war declaration from across the map early but it really isn't that much of the problem as AI can't do anything about it that early in game over such distance (it still needs to research offensive spells to cast that far and it still needs gems like you do). After a while such war will turn back into uneasy peace anyway.

Note that amount of PD you have in provinces has effect on how much AI will declare war on you. More PD means more troops and AI does take that into account.

I hope this will make it more clear for you guys.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I don't understand that why should we care that which AI is declaring war and when.
There is no diplomacy in the game, so this is a pointless discussion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Not that we should continue this disscusion much longer - we're REALLY OT - but its not so much that there is no diplomacy (there's a really simple system) but its not really relavant since you can attack anyone, some spells effect everyone, not shared LOS, etc etc and most of all, there is no mutual victory, so you can't do a team game very well, except in MP. But hey, you can't exploit the AI diplomacy like in some games.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Well, I knew that you are biased and not very bright, but you tend to be a liar as well.

I didn't wanted to swing a majority on Usenet. I just BTW. bought the game.

But, I reserve my right to say a few words ABOUT THE PRICE.

PRICE IS SET TOO HIGH. PERIOD. All arguments that I have read are in vain.

It is clear fact that Shrapnel was carried away a little bit.

I bought Dominion 2 at 50 US$ and 3 $ postage to Europe. Now is 55 $ and 9.35 US$ postage... great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Now, if someone wants to buy me, a regular customer, go ahead....

But, I will say few words about the price. 55$ is too high price, argument that you will spend 1000 hours playing it blah, you will spend 1000 hours playing Heroes 5 as well. Maybe some argument is there about size of the manual (I still wait for the game to arrive).

Argument that game will sell less and crying how this is niche game is of no interest to us, regular paying customers! Mind you, I deeply believe that this game should be priced at 40 US$-45$ top. 50$ is also too high, and 55$ way too much.

Matrix Games is also inflating their games like TOAW 3 for 40 US$, a almost same game from 2000. AD. and full of bugs (COW is better).

So, I give Shrapnel THUMBS DOWN on setting this game and also to developer also THUMBS DOWN because they should be aware that price is set too high.

You just got BIG reputation down in my eyes. Yes, I bought the game but next time I won't if this greedy politics at Shrapnel will continue.

Thank you for listening.


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Hello Mario,

May I be the first to welcome you to our forums. You certainly do have the right to state your opinion about the price or any other issue regarding the game or our company. You also have the right to disagree with another forum member. You do not, however, have the right to make accusatory statements about another forum member. This is not usenet. This is our company's forums where we expect participants to treat each other with a measure of respect. There is a link at the top of this page called "board rules". I ask that you read it. I am happy to see you here, but I have to ask that you "play nice." It's what we expect of all our members.

As to your post, there are several interesting discussions on various boards about this issue. I think I'd like to hear your impressions once you've received the game and play it a bit to see if your opinion remains the same. And we do thank you for your order and the vote of confidence it portrays. You've been a supporter of our developers in the past, and we're happy to hear your constructive feedback.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

O for a muse of euphemisms, that would ascend the highest peaks of human invetion: a forum for a stage, pretenders as players: can yet this facade obscure the vast human disregard?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Thank you Annete,

I am sorry for harsh words and I will reply with my view of this situation later. I will be nice and not use any ugly word.

Yes, I have supported Shrapnel in the past and would like that this would be in the future.


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

OK, if this is the axiom, then you are most certainly right; it does follow that the price is set too high. Doesn't leave much room for discussion, though.

There are several possible definitions for a price. For a PC game, I'd say that "player entertainment" should be a major factor in deciding what a "right" price should be. I think it's safe to assume that players won't play a PC game much longer than it provides entertainment (or else, something is definitely wrong with them). Thus, the time one spends playing a given game is a reasonable factor in deciding whether the price is "right" (though absolutely not the only one).

If you intend to spend the same amount of time playing Heroes V as Dom3, then weigh them against each other in "entertainment per hour"; if you get more enjoyment per hour with Heroes V, then maybe your best game for this time is Heroes V, and there is nothing wrong with that. I bought it, played each campaign once, and basically lost interest. I don't consider my money badly spent, but if Dom2 is any indication, I expect to get much more playing time out of Dom3 than Heroes V.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

The price is set too high?

Not if u live in the UK. Over here, a new release at the top end of the price range is 29.99 - 34.99 pounds. Dom 3 cost 34.10 pounds, that included the USPS delivery charge. So at the top end of the bareable market price but not over.

Considering the sheer depth of the game, I have really only scratched the surface of 2 nations yet, its well worth every pound or $.

U r buyin a top quality product with Dom 3, u always have to pay for quality.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I've put in an order for the full game, which says a lot considering my earlier posts on the matter. I played the demo a great deal and enjoyed my time with it. However, I still agree with Mario and my original assessment that the game is not worth 55 dollars. One major reason is the animations in battle are extremely choppy and units seems to warp to and fro. If battles weren't such a central theme in the game, ie you could win through other means, it wouldn't bother me so much. As it stands though, battles are the only way to win and as such I think more time could have been taken in unit animations to make things more fluid.

The music, however, is top notch. I can't stay enough good things about it. The number of unique countries and their individual histories and cultures is also pretty amazing, and kudos to Illwinter for coming up with them. That together with the number of spells and items, plus the knowledge from Dominions 2 that the price would never fall, made me go ahead and put in an order now. Like Mario though I have little respect for Shrapnel games and will never go out of my way to support them as publishers, ever. Domonions 3 and possibly whatever game Illwinter decides they will create next will get my money but nothing else Shrapnel supports will I look at. I helped you guys with your porche payments this month but you're on your own for the next months.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Hmm, thanks for the positive feedback on Dråm and Illwinters behalf, but I must say that I find your dislike for shrapnel somewhat confusing. You disrespect them for raising the price tag by 5 dollars. The difference in the maual is actually worth more than that. Take my word on it. I wrote the old one (or most of it). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So if you dislike Shrapnel I think it is better if you don't say that in this way on their forums. Be constructive instead. Say that you will not buy games with price tags that high, instead of saying that you won't by from Shrapnel because you think thay suck. The first might make them listen, the other might ban you from their forum. I would not be too fond of you if I was the target in your post.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Personally I still say, that if someone refuse to pay 55$ [which is a ridicolously small amount of money] to buy the best TBS available..it is too bad...for HIM! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Hmmmm... who was it that said "anything is worth what the market will pay for it"?

Dominions 3 may be priced more highly than many of us think is really reasonable, especially for a small game, but they aren't the market. Neither are those of use who think it's a good deal. The market is everyone that could conceivably consider purchasing the game (that includes us, but there are WAY more than the couple hundred or so people that lair within these forums.) Dominions 3 set records with shrapnel sales for number of copies sold. Not knowing how big the market is, its hard to say what percent of people that looked at/will look at it bought it, but since so many did, and the market isn't HUGE, as this is a bit of a niche game, it kind of makes me think that most people that consider buying the game either buy it, or don't because they don't like the demo/the combat/the concept etcetera.

I seriously doubt the many of the thousands of people who will buy the game will really give the price a whole lot of consideration. Either it's a good game and they buy it, or it's a piece of EA-like trash and they won't - for most people, you need to change the price quite a lot before they actually don't buy something. Going the other way, you don't have to change the price quite as much maybe, but you lose a LOT of money.

Now for some ugly, unpleasant mathematics (Yuck!):
Assuming that Shrapnel sells three thousand copies of Dominions 3(I'm pulling numbers out of the air here, I think the real figure is a LOT higher) at 55$, they make 165 000 dollars less expenses, including the insane cost of printing the 300 page manual (printing is a VERY lucrative business). If they [Shrapnel Games] lower the price even one dollar, the make only 162 000 dollars -they need to sell 56 extra copies to recoup their loss of profit. But now one cares about one dollar - So let's say that they lower prices by ten dollars. Are they going to find the 666.66 new buyers they need to make it worth it? Possibly, but I really doubt it. Whether or not the game is good value for its price as compared to other purchases is irrelevant - Shrapnel is making money, and we can hardly expect them to be stupid - they should maximize their profits since that’s how the western style free market economy works.
However, if time spent enjoying your self per cent spent is your concern, I say two things: 1) You care too much about economics, and 2) Dominions 3 probably isn't worth it, but I doubt that ANY computer games really are. Bloodstar, I REALLY doubt that anyone will spend 1000 hours playing Heroes 5 - that’s like three hours a day, FOR EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR! (Do you have a life? A family? a job? Do you sleep?) That said, I doubt anyone will play Dominions 3 for 1000 hours either. And about the manual - we really should shut up about it. No offence to Bruce, but really - were buying a game, not a book. It's nice to have a good manual, BUT ITS NOT A SELLING POINT! Very few people look at two strategy games and say Oooo- this one has a nicer manual, I think I'll take it. Evidence: EA sells games, and their manuals, like their games, are crap.

Sorry if my tone is a little offensive, and my thoughts incoherent...

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Thanks for your concern, Kris, but I don't care much for Shrapnel's fondness of me. I call it like I see it. If I get banned, then fare thee well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

There is actually another concern. In order to expand the market, therby allowing more future buisness, and in order to retain the existing consumer base, shrapnel also needs to price slightly below optimal return. Of course this is only true if illwinter/shrapnel continue to make/sell games, but I consider this likely.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Why? It's actually slightly cheaper than most new releases, at least in UK pricing. EA don't seem to have a problem selling games at £30, and they're not exactly looking at a shrinking market...

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I would prefer to have you here. I think and hope that you opinions on the game are valuable to us and other players.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I'd think that the bigger obstacle to expanding the market is that the target audience is, frankly, quite small. The number of people willing to invest the time and attention necessary to enjoy games of this nature is far, far smaller than the market for more familiar, intuitive, prettier, or shorter instant-gratification games.

You wouldn't expect World in Flames, Advanced Squad Leader or Combat Mission to sell like hotcakes if priced at $10, either. Few people would play them, even if they were free, because it takes a fairly rare bird to enjoy them. For their audience they're quite good, but that audience is small.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Actually, I think that on a time spent enjoying yourself per dollar scale, Dominions 3 will do very very well.
After playing Dominions 2, I'd be surprised if I got less than 55 hours of Dom3 goodness (and I expect much much more, but this number is obviously for example purposes).
For 55 hours of goodness I pay 55$, so that's 1$ for an hour of entertainment, which is much better than paying 5$ for two hours of fun at the movies, or I-don't-know-how-much-but-I-bet-its-more-than-one-dollar dollars for one hour of fun with a prostitute, and yet lots of people do both of those :O
As for Dominions3 VS. other computer games, I think Dominions3 wins by far on the time spent enjoying yourself per dollar scale, there's just so much content to explore that I'd expect several times the time playing Dominions3 than other full priced games (especially EA stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif).

Alternatively, its about 1 hour per weekday for about 4 years, which doesn't sound that unreasonable. (Though I don't expect anyone but the most hard core to play for 4 years straight with no breaks)

Well, I think that a good manual is a selling point, here are some explanations why:
1) As I understand it, there was some complaint regarding the Dom2 manual for not being that good, so an improved manual should make those complainers happier.
2) Dominions is a very complex game, and as such, it needs a thorough manual.
3) The manual is the only difference between a legal copy, and an illegaly obtained copy.
4) Manuals are cool.

That's just the Dreamlands dominion getting to you.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Yeah, it's just the Dominion. Ctulhu ftaghn and so on.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

web page


Lol!

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Heh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

OK, I obviously have 18 hours working day like Shrapnel today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Listen, let's calm down - I don't want that this become unobjective harrasment of fanboys toward me or anybody who says his opinion. I already have seen this kind of behaviour at Paradox Entertainent boards and Matrix boards. We can tell all our opinion in a civilized way - and hell I don't have intention to argue with hudreds of angry fans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif(

First, I own web shop for selling PC & video games etc... Also I was game journalist for more than ten years, I know all big faces of games industry. No, I am not boasting but my knowledge of game industry is very big.

Dominions 3 is not the game like World of Warctaft for example. I bought some quantities of WoW for selling on my web shop and suddenly Blizzard have lowered the prices of that game so now I am selling this game at 0 profit lol.
So, I am not arguing LOWERING prices of the games now just for the sake of arguing. Dominions 3 is different game than most of retail games and D3 price once set will not go down like Quake 4 etc...

Why I pulled Heroes 5 out? Believe it or not that is main competitor now to Dominions 3!It's TBS, and fantasy. Heroes 5 have some diffenence to Dom 3 - it's big mainstream title but that don't nececary means that it is bad. Quite contrary, Nival, Russian dev., have pulled excellent job, game is even selling with nVidia 7900 cards bundled, graphics is gorgeus and gameplay is excellent.
Now, due to it's nature HOMM 5 is quite expensive game - first Ubi Soft payed 1.3 MILLION US$ just to get rights for now defunct 3DO (ok for whole M&M universe), then game alone costed VERY, VERY MUCH to produce, I think 5-10 million $, marketing and PR cost were also high.

Now what this have to do with Dominions 3 you may ask?

Well, as much as you can argue that Dom 3 is artistic, niche, mumbo jumbo, indie game, small budget, less copies expected to sell etc... BUT! Again, for me it is quite ridiculous and slap in the face of the fans (at least those who can rationally asses this situation) to price this game at 55 $.

Suggestet retail price for HOMM5 is 49.95 $. Many web sites are selling HOMM5 for 40 $ or even as low as 30$!. Now, if you had set price for Dominion 3 to 49.95 $ same like HOMM 5 that is even then higher than HOMM 5 as retail outlets and web shops will have relatively smaller prices on HOMM5.

All, arguing that Shrapnel knows best what price to put, OK, I can agree with that, but that don't means that I must comply with that reasoning and yes I have bought the game but certanly will not do that again if Shrapnel again decide to slap mi in the face.

Even my opinion is here not important - it's important how you treat your fans. I am not attacking Shrapnel and this is quite honest my approach to them so I politely ask that fans cool down and that they don't need to defend Shrapnel. I didn't attacked them, I just have expressed my opinion on this. So, fans cool down please.

I have no objections to pay even 99$ for NEW ORIGINAL DESIGN AND NEW GRAPHICS ETC:.. Of course nobody will charge that much but I have gladly payed 65 $ for Distant Guns game from SES. It is about Russo Japanese war and game that fits my term - niche within a niche. Developers have made a game about obscure war, very brave move, they didn't followed usssual approach Normandy - Bulge - Market Garden that many wargaming companies do.

Dominions 3 is SEQUEL, it is great game I am sure but it is a sequel. Even manual is not excuse to price it at 55$.

Now, you can all disagree with me, I have getting used to Usenet and have thick skin in that regard and I will stick with my opinion.

I will play the game but bitter taste will remain.

But, I will certanly not put my head in the sand and applaud any move that I don't feel it is right. Sorry just cannot do that.

Regards to everyone and no hard feelings ok.


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I bought that game. I've played it for like 2 weeks only, because it was boring for me. I've never found Doms 2. boring. Interesting isn't it? You cannot compare games, because well all have our subjective opinions [and own experience] about them.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

A three star new user speaking for all the fans who preordered? LOL. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And you can't really use the "IT'S A SEQUEL" argument either since every game of the Dominions series has been better than the last one.

Admit it, you just don't want to pay some extra money for it. What's the differnece of price between $40 and €55? The price of couple beer bottles? Some food? Couple miles worth of gas for the car? It's a minimalistic difference!

I and a massive number of people who ordered and preordered the game think that the game is well worth it's price as it is.

Illwinter made this game while their two member team worked on other jobs. I think the other dev had to even find a new job. They are teachers, which is a taxing job in itself. They made the game in their spare time and had to deal with anxious fans. I suppose the fans were anxious for a reason, afterall the game got delayed almost a year.

I doubt Shrapnel is swimming in money either, and that their pricing policy is driven not only by economic realities but also selling out their games at higher price than $5 which seems that many people are ready to pay for.

You seem to think of Shrapnel as some faceless monstrosite which is keeping Illwinter under some jackboot of oppression, or maybe you don't even think of the devs, or the publisher or anything else than just getting the game cheap.

Thing is, we have a two man team who has made a quality came on their spare time, and you come and essenitally say that they don't deserve what's their part of the $55 the game costs?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Intiate self-deprecating yet vaguely insulting irony:


Its really hard to applaud with your face in the sand. Perhaps the enlightened ones with their faces turned from the earth to the heavens would care to share wisdom with us baseborn mortals?

I referance the following quotations:

1)"I have no objections to pay even 99$ for NEW ORIGINAL DESIGN AND NEW GRAPHICS ETC:."

How many games have had a new design? Heroes FIVE? Civ FOUR? Warcraft THREE? Dominions TWO?

This is the era of the sequel, whether you like it or not.

2) "Now, if you had set price for Dominion 3 to 49.95 $ same like HOMM 5 that is even then higher than HOMM 5 as retail outlets and web shops will have relatively smaller prices on HOMM5."

True enough. Dominions is also a better game. And, oddly enough, more original.

3) "Now what this have to do with Dominions 3 you may ask?"

I may ask it indeed. What does anything here posted have to do with this specific game? is it not a commentary on human falibility and dissatisfaction, shot through with oblique referances to a failing industry?

4 "I already have seen this kind of behaviour at Paradox Entertainent boards and Matrix boards. We can tell all our opinion in a civilized way"

My opinon, which I am entitled to hold and express according to the constitution of my nation and the rights accorded by the UN, is that the mass abuse of fans is just punishment for anyone that posts a thread like this in the dominons forums. I hold up before the jury as evidence the numerous insinuations and outright condescension exhibited in previous posts.

5) "Dominions 3 is SEQUEL, it is great game I am sure but it is a sequel. Even manual is not excuse to price it at 55$."

I reiterate the above: everything is a sequel. There is no such thig as an original anymore.


I dig my pit in the sand and ensconce my head firmly.


/irony



I hope you appreciate that that was a rather ill-concieved joke. You are fully free to express opinions, but doing so on this forum is tantamont to suicide. Much as I hate to be accused of hampering open debate, I submit that the above post was not entirely uncalled for, but that circumstances will compell others to mock it.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I wish that the developers and publisher get well rewarded for their work and creation. They certainly earned my money and more. On a time cost ratio, I think Dom2 cost me 0.000001 cent an hour. Compare that to a movie or golf or drinking at a bar.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Valandil, you are quite the character lol.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Yep. I mean, you spend at least 100$ on a friday night, or in fact usually more.
Dominions fans are playing countless hours with this game, so 55$ is like..nothing?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Comparing HOMM5 and Dominions 3 is a folly. They're really entirely different types of games; the only similarities are superficial. Yes, they're both turn-based strategy games, but only in as far as both chess and monopoly are turn-based strategy games.

More importantly HOMM5 has an economy of scale that is wildly beyond anything that Dominions 3 might even aspire to. The two games have completely different economic realities and to decide that Dominions 3 is overpriced because it's more expensive than HOMM5 just makes no sense.

As for getting upset with Shrapnel for pricing it at $55 -- do you really expect them to sell it for a sub-optimal price? They're a business, and they're trying to make money. Can you really begrudge them that fact? (On another note, I'd be extremely surprised if Shrapnel has a higher per-copy profit from Dominions 3 than Ubi Soft has for HOMM5.)

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Maybe to get some friends or girlfriends and try to play HOMM 5 in a hot seat... That is not boring at all.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Friends? huh? what are those?

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

What a bunch of nonsense!

Last time I checked I had 10000 euros in my bank account, is that enough for a copy of Dominions 3? Man, and Nokia maker, you are funny!

This is really funny. You are trying me to portray as being cheap and YOU DON'T SEE A BIG PICTURE. For you it is mere 5 $. Than my friend you are very narrowminded. I have asked for objective discussion not low under the pants kikcs...

I have 5000 games on my web shop and you are telling me that I am being cheap lol

Great...


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I think major publishers make a mistake discounting their titles. I seldom purchase a new title because I know if I just wait a few months I'll get a steep reduction. I assume that the publishers are pressured into this due to the fight for shelf space at retail. But I guess that is the sacrifice for a deep market distribution. Anyway, I think quality titles deserve a fair and consistent price. For this reason, I appreciate how Shrapnel markets its products. I would, however, like to see them hold a yearly sale or something of the sort. This might convert fence sitters and grow the dom brand until we all say "Blizzard who?".

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Okay, now you're just trolling -- and not very well either.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Then you are condescendingly advising a company that is doing perfectly well how to sell its products, without any desire for self betterment? Solely out of the goodness of your heart?

The era of saints and philanthropists is long consigned unto the dust. Altruism is, and always as been, dead.

I wish you luck on the streets.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

sniped verbage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

--
I hope you appreciate that that was a rather ill-concieved joke. You are fully free to express opinions, but doing so on this forum is tantamont to suicide. Much as I hate to be accused of hampering open debate, I submit that the above post was not entirely uncalled for, but that circumstances will compell others to mock it.
---

Funny, really funnny. I just said that I wanted some down to earth discussion and now all this... Blah...
So expressing opinions is forbidden here?

I must make post "you are great etc"... otherwise many fanboys will lynch me here lol?

Great, really great. Than on to ban http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Actually true, however sad it may be. It was INTENDED as a joke, hence the fact that it SAYS SO.

harrumph.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I am not trolling. The guy have accused me for being cheap and that I am making noise for a mere 5 $. It's not about 5 $ at all.

I am not being cheap, I just don't like trends like this in the game industry. And why I cannot say this here?


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Because, as you noted, your tone, combined with poor logic and incoherant spelling, leads to annoyance and irritation. The population of most of civilization is constantly near the "boil-over" point anyhow, so the additional strain causes people to blow up in your face.

Additionally, there are people like me that like to post long rambling discourses replete iwht irony, hyperbole, and, sadly, hypocrisy.

In conclusion, dominions is good, you are bad, and I am stupid.

Valandil signing off of this thread. For now.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Ah, ah, now comes psychology assesment mode?

You are wrong of course. You are wrongly only looking this through fan eyes only. That is only part of the picture.

Then we get down again to basic thing that I can have my opinion as you can have yours, that is perfectly clear and legal I assume. No hidden agenda or preparation for new thermonuclear war here. But again fans have been proved to be not very tolerant to other people's opinion.

Which is not nice because that tends to generate things like we against him. Childish.


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Well, there's several reasons for them to do this, I suppose. Partly, of course, it's not the publishers that discounts the titles, but the actual stores, who don't have the same interest in keeping prices high (as they have to bear the brunt of the inventory costs.)

Next, there's a question of time-limited marketing campaigns. Once the main marketing thrust around launch is over, I suspect most games see their sales taper off very sharply. To take some numbers out of thin air, if they sell 85% of the copies during the initial marketing blitz, it doesn't really make much of a difference to the bottom line if the remaining 15% sell for 100% of the original price or 50%.

Third, the large game developers share a product model with Hollywood, in that most of their products do not make a profit, but the cost is offset by the rare golden birds that make huge profits. They chase the blockbusters, and the fate of the other games, once it's clear they're not going to be a blockbuster, isn't really important to the bottom line.

There's probably a lot more factors involved. I'm not really that familiar with the economics of the industry or, for that matter, with economics in general.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Because you're being uncivil, rude and uncouth about it. In other words: it's not your message, it's your delivery.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Just a couple of points:-

A small company usually has to charge MORE for there product than a big company, due to economies of scale. A small company usually is more customer focused and focuses on better quality. Those points apply to Dom3/shrapnel/illwinter.

I think shrapnel/illwinter could be shortchanging themselves as to the potential sales they could get for there dominions franchaise. Stardock a small company like illwinter (only 2 developers more and a few other staff), achieved huge sales with Galactic Civilizations 2 (100,000+, heading towards 200,000+), GC2 is a TBS, comparable in quality to dominions 3. The market for TBS is a resonably sized market. If they did ever release via retail there price would after be lower $49.99, probably and there profit % would be smaller. If they achieved sales like GC2 however, they would make lots more $$$.

I used to work in retail computer games and the biggest profit goes to the retail outlet on software (or did 10 yrs ago), a $49.99 game, retailer takes $20'ish. This is why retail can discount games so heavily.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Buahaha. Sorry my logic is not poor. I can apologize for tone but if others cool down and try to respect my opinion my tone will get super friendly.

I am not bad. That is poor insult here. Again, defending something that don't have to be defended. I have also bought this game. Please don't spoil the fun for me.

I am not agressive at all or want to be irritant. That is just your herd forum logic and bullying. Mature fan would accept ANY opinion on a face value and respect it. Immature fan will act like you or some others here. I didn't offended anyone for saying my opinion. Ende. U boot emerges on the surface.


Mario

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Ah, ah, now comes psychology assesment mode?

Huh? look up some definitons before you decide what I'm posting. I said that your desire to help shrapnel will be repayed only with hostility.

You said That I was being narrow-minded, seeing part of the picture, and doing something that you refuse to disclose wrongly. Then YOU say that fans are being hostile. Which is what I said.

I can only assume that you did not understand my english. Which is fully acceptable, but is not an excuse to accuse me of narrow-mindedness.

Sorry for OT, moderators, but I am being wrongly accused.