Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

...And since I'm not a modder, I guess SE5 is not for me.

Actually I would like to become a modder...but of SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

One tip:
If you make the gameplay more complex by REMOVING things, you know you're on the right track http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

I know that SE5 have more options than SE4, but thanks to the clunky interface it appears to the average player (non-modder), that SE4 have more strategic depth, since it´s easier to handle the SE4 interface, that is very streamlined, than to fight SE5 interface to access options that in SE4 are intuitive...

(i´m making any kind of sense?)

Makinus

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

NO !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Yes, you reinforce the point that SE5 is easier to mod then play... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

/me wonders who hooked the "d" key up to the self destruct device instead of the cargo-drop crane.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

You're kidding me SJ, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
[have not played SE5, just the demo]

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

You can configure hotkeys however you like, so its not a big deal. There is some logic to these buttons though: L launches units, O loads cargo remotely, K drops cargo remotely. The keys are all together on the keyboard; Aaron apparently felt it was better to group these cargo orders than make other commands with the same first letter use those keys. The other option is to put drop cargo on D and self-destruct on a random key like K, which seems to have more issues overall than the other way around (loss of grouping of similar orders). You can't put every order on a hotkey that matches the first letter; there are too many orders with the same letters.

Its not like most games tend to map every key to the first letter of the command anyways; E for jump/fire in shooter games and ("action") rpgs? WASD to move?

Not really, since the interface still presents all of the data in practically the same way as SE4 (spreadsheet-like report screens, basic details in the planet info box with more detailed info on clicking, etc.); it just has a crappy button panel, some excessive confirmation buttons, excessive component slots, and such. None of its issues seem to detract from seeing the game's depth and complexity, to me, but rather from its playability.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Self destruct doesn't deserve its own hotkey IMO.
Being a Turn Based game with lots of commands, twitch access is not important.

SE4 did it right. The most-used commands get their first letter as the obvious hotkey, and even the rarely-used ones (which use the leftover keys) are just one mouse click away... so you don't have to memorize anything.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Still, its trivial to change them to suit your tastes.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

As ridiculous as modding the game would be??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Are you saying it is difficult to use in-game configuration menus now?

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

No, more like changing the game (modding) to suite your taste. Kinda like changing keystrokes (hotkeys) would be! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

You're really stretching now...

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

No, Fyron, with all due respect, he's not stretching at all.

There are just some of us who really find the changes in SEV stupid and annoying. I respect and admire Aaron greatly (even if SE? is basically a ripoff of the old Starfire boardgame), but he ignored two basics in SEV.

1. The first law of updates & sequels - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
2. The KISS principle - "Keep it simple, stupid."

I am still playing SEIV, and having a hell of a good time with it. My current game at PBW with capnq, et al* is a blast, and we're rocking along at almost a turn a day. Moreover, it's an almost-stock game, using only TDM Modpack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

I can't tell what Xrati is arguing for...
Are you pushing "stock is the holy word of Aaron", or "mod it and quit complaining"?


PS:
Does anybody happen to know where the default keymapping is?
I'd like to not have to edit all the keys for each game I start, but I can't find where to set them in the datafiles.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Possum:
Certainly, but that has nothing to do with using the fact that you can change hotkeys in-game now as support for the assertion that SE5 is only a game for modders, given that configuring in-game settings is 180 degrees away from "modding." If we are going to start calling that modding now, then we have to say SE4 is a game only for modders as well, since there are lots of in-game settings most people tweak to their satisfaction (system display options, music volume, sort ordering of the report screens, etc.).

SJ:
Last I checked, the hotkey settings are saved between games. Saved in the registry with the other main menu settings, maybe? I just rechecked, and the random changes I made were still present after I exited and reloaded. I didn't save any game in the meantime.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Hm. That's odd, it didn't save my changes until I ended turn in a game, but now its sticking.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Ask Possum S.J., he knows what I'm talking about. All you need to do is read the posts without Fryons "interjections" of what 'I mean.' He has a tendency to put a spin on what people write about in his own words!

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Are you saying that you did not mean what you said then, that configuring hot-keys in-game is in fact not modding? What have I interjected that you did not explicitly state?

Is being able to configure hotkeys in-game to suit your tastes part of the "features make it unappealing?" that I tried to get people posting so we could better petition Malfador? Does it hurt the game interface somehow, cause now you can change hotkeys you aren't satisfied with (without any modding of data files whatsoever)? Or is it just an industry standard practice that should have been in SE 7 years ago, and its finally catching up?

=0=

You want to talk about interjecting your own meanings, just look at what post started this silliness...

Nothing in the referenced post had anything to do with making SE5 a game for modders instead of players; everything listed is already there, in-game. Modders can further expand damage types, but there is still a whole lot more to play with by default than SE4 had, which was my point... And yet now its hitting the nail on the head with it being a game not for players, cause players have a lot more options to fine-tune their fleets?

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

No, in response to this...
SJ Fyron I said In response to your reply to insinuate that change would be "trivial"
Where do you get the idea that hotkeys and modding are the same thing? It's only your statement that relates to that, not mine! If your not sure what I meant, don't go assuming something and then bashing me for your interpretation, ASK… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

I do not play SE5 other then the demo, and therefore cannot offer any solutions to the game and have not done so. The game does not play as easy (for me) as it mods (for you) so I stand by my statement.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

It all seemed to flow into that, first saying se5 is only for modders, then stating that changing hotkeys is as ridiculous as modding the game and all... I suppose you didn't actually say it was modding, and I apologize for asserting that you did.

I don't get what the difference in intentions is between what I thought you said and what you did say (that it is "as ridiculous as modding"), though. What was the point? Being able to configure hotkeys makes the game less fun to play? Disagreeing with one default hotkey assignment makes the game difficult to play?

I don't disagree that SE5 can be a chore to play at times, but I just don't see hotkeys being part of it, or that the game is just for modders (its for people willing to put up with the interface, which has gotten somewhat better since the last demo).

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Fyron. I have read many posts about SE5's playability (some do like it and some do not). I have yet to read one post about it's modability!!! What do you think that could mean? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I take it to mean that the game is more user friendly to modders then players...

The hotkeys comment was a insignificant point of sarcasm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

There are tons of posts about its moddability and issues therein (but even more about UI stuff).. There are more on the more active official forums than here, though. But even so, a lot of modders send their complaints about limitations and foibles directly to Aaron, rather than post about them on the forums (which he doesn't even read). Most of the moddable nature of hte game feels rather tacked-on, as if Aaron was designing it to do exactly what he wanted, then just put a bit of interface calls in text files. A recently discussed issue (on IRC) was being unable to specify just how many fighters get launched at a time from a fighter bay (all you specify is unit type and the rate in ms one fighters is launched). Luckily we found that duplicating the ability would get us what we wanted, but it shouldn't have even been necessary with better data format design; its an artificial limitation of abilities only having two "Amount" lines. Then there were clever things like monsters that grew in power the "older" they were, that got axed when Aaron started caching component values at design time for speed purposes... You don't even want to know how much insanity I ran into working on FQM...

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Well I guess there's nothing left to say but, wait for SE6... [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]
Aaron can always rename it "Space Empires - A New Beginning" or "The Return of the Code" or "Space Empires Strikes Back". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
These would be some great names for SE6!

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

As long as the game is as fun, or more fun, than SE4 (since SE5 is not very fun, in my opinion), he could call it 'Revenge of the Bananas' for all I care..

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

If you don't care what they name it, why even post anything until SE6 is released? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

My point was that gameplay matters more than what he chooses to name the next version (assuming he even makes one). Are you offensive on purpose or is it just a natural gift?

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

An old Vulcan saying goes, purpose without reason is illogical. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon07.gif[/img]

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

That's only ever problem in sequential turn games...

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Yes, but if you reverse the polarity of the game, you will reverse the sequence.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Bah.

I was replying to a post on page 6 because the forum likes to jump to the earliest page when I click the latest thread link http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Well it made for good reading anyhow!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

LOL, this thread's silliness quotient is escalating fast.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

It did start at near max-capacity from the first post.

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Yea, but it's what makes this board interesting and fun... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Coming to the topic a mite late (ok... very late), I'd like to address the original question.

Yes.

I don't play nearly as much as I used to, but SEIV is a game that I'll no doubt find a way to play now and then 50 years from now, with my (potential) grandchildren asking me "Grandpa, what the hell sort of primitive crap is that?" And I'll tell 'em, "This is the best damn game I've ever played". Well... without the "damn" because their parents would probably kill me, but you get the picture http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Ahhhh Yes! Renegade, and you'll probably still be posting here to tell us about your grand children. Maybe even post a pic or two of them!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Any One Still Playing This Game?
 

Of course!