Re: Updated mod
 

Can't connect to the server. Anyone else?

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Love the Europe map. Except it is too small for this number of players. Something about playing on Earth's natural geogrpahy is always pleasing. It also make it easier to refer to the map with other players.

It is undeniable that it makes a huge difference starting in the middle or a corner. it would be nice if someone could make a map that works to fix that. THis effect is increased by the small number of provinces per player an dthe grpahs being on also. Wraparound will help but should be on both sideways and vertical.

And I would actually prefer a good non wrapawround map that worked well for th eguys in the middle. choke points or wealth or ?

You can play with these settings, map, and # of players and 9 out of ten times the corner people will dominate and win.

I will be the first out i think. I started in the middle. I got 60 unrest on turn two due to events ( misfortune scale 2 so that happens) and with the graphs on, the scurvy dog pirates saw my weakness and struck quickly before i could recover. That's a great example of why I, personally, do not like the graphs on. I am sure Sombre used that perfectly reliable intelligence to make his decision on attacking me.

So I just want to say Jazzepi has some very good points he is bringing up. and if you are in the corner or benefit this time from graphs. try to have the vision to overcome your natural bias and see what might be best for the balance of good game.

Great mods by the way, Love Ulm reborn who I am playing this game. My apologies for not doing well by them this game.

The Pirates will be quite vulnerable at this point by the way, before they consolidate my little kingdom and the seas.

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Server connection?

server connect
 

Can't connect to the server. Anyone else?

************************************************** *


Love the Europe map. Except it is too small for this number of players. Something about playing on Earth's natural geogrpahy is always pleasing. It also make it easier to refer to the map with other players.

It is undeniable that it makes a huge difference starting in the middle or a corner. it would be nice if someone could make a map that works to fix that. THis effect is increased by the small number of provinces per player an dthe grpahs being on also. Wraparound will help but should be on both sideways and vertical.

And I would actually prefer a good non wrapawround map that worked well for th eguys in the middle. choke points or wealth or ?

You can play with these settings, map, and # of players and 9 out of ten times the corner people will dominate and win.

I will be the first out i think. I started in the middle. I got 60 unrest on turn two due to events ( misfortune scale 2 so that happens) and with the graphs on, the scurvy dog pirates saw my weakness and struck quickly before i could recover. That's a great example of why I, personally, do not like the graphs on. I am sure Sombre used that perfectly reliable intelligence to make his decision on attacking me.

So I just want to say Jazzepi has some very good points he is bringing up. and if you are in the corner or benefit this time from graphs. try to have the vision to overcome your natural bias and see what might be best for the balance of good game.

Great mods by the way, Love Ulm reborn who I am playing this game. My apologies for not doing well by them this game.

The Pirates will be quite vulnerable at this point by the way, before they consolidate my little kingdom and the seas.

************************

Server connection?

Re: server connect
 

Sorry about the double post, I have tried deleting it about 5 times, and reposting and it always deletes boht and double posts. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

Re: server connect
 

I've concluded that the only way to balance a non-wrap-around map is to leave the middle unoccupied.

Unfortunately I lost the script to do this in a HD crash http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif, but if you look at the map I did for Allegiances, you can see most of what I did (I think the map file I posted is missing some large and site-rich provinces that the script added for balance, but gives the general idea.)

Giving the people in the middle wealthier/better sites jsut makes them more attractive targets for being rended limb-from-limb.

Personally, when I'm in the middle I take the Pascal's wager policy:
* If I assume that everyone is going to ally against me, I'm toast.
* If I assume that (pick an opponent at random) may leave me alone long enough to conquer someone else, maybe I'll win.

So if I"m in the middle, I make an alliance with one of my neighbors and attack somebody - just like I'd do if I were in the corner http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Preferably, I attack a person who has a corner which I can then claim.

But this has not, historically, been a terribly successful strategy. It's working out for me pretty well in Sophistry - although it turns out the player I'd hoped to ignore was probably planning to attack me, and never got around to it because he was gangbanged by virtue of being in the middle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

So, my advice to Jazzepi - you should have offered to divide my lands with Sanguinia on turn 5, and then come roaring in all death and vengeance, ignoring the possibility that you'd be attacked from behind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Seldom works, but hey - nothing ventured, nothing gained. Chance favors the bold! Death or glory! And so forth.

Re: server connect
 

Still cannot connect, anyone else?

Re: server connect
 

Can not connect also. Ich is the server owner, and I think he is on vacation for 1 more week.

Re: server connect
 

I hope lch gives us warning on the forums before putting the server back up.

Re: server connect
 

It appears to be working now.

Re: server connect
 

I was playing with Avernum, and human captain has two shields. I think it is a bug. Am I using an old version?

Why no chat? How is game going? I have no friend in this one, and am curious but cannot get any info :-) Is there a third game in the planning?

Re: server connect
 

It's going okay, Avernum is raiding me, which I find annoying, but is par for the course when you eliminate someone.

Re: server connect
 

Thankfully I have thousands and thousands of gold saved up. I can do this all, day, long. XD

Jazzepi

Re: server connect
 

We Dwarves have been beset by awful misfortune, but we're putting out fires and soon we'll be lighting them to dispose of the last Ulmish trash.

Re: server connect
 

> We Dwarves have been beset by awful misfortune, but we're putting out fires and soon we'll be lighting them to dispose of the last Ulmish trash.

How the wheel spins... In first game, Ulm killed the dwarves. Payback!

Re: server connect
 

That's what we had in mind. The real tragedy is that the dwarves never got a chance to do their thing in the other game.

Re: server connect
 

we skaven are having numerous problems with the small minded barbarians. despite a great effort to bring order to europe the barbarian under their leader Conin? Colin? something like that? keep attempting to overthrow our rule.(I've had 5 barb attacks in 3 turns with order 3 Mis 2)
Meanwhile in alliance with the stout dwarves and valiant elves the council of thirteen has contained the rogue state of avernum whose rapid growth threatend us all.

another one bites the dust
 

The Holburgs are no more. they have been subsumed into the great Elfish empire, where they continue to farm and smoke pipe weed and no longer have to worry thier little heads over military matters.


translation: I went AI last turn, after my capital was taken by the elves. The Holburgs just could not touch the elves on the battlefield.

Re: server connect
 

Guys, write some more stuff! I'm enjoying following these mod games.

Re: server connect
 

We are menaced on all sides.

While the remaining army of avernum continues to amuse itself playing cat-and-mouse in our countryside, the Dwarves have delivered an unprovoked attack against our western posessions in the sea.

As they are apparently allied with both the elves and the skaven, we find ourselves in somewhat dire straits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. But we will see what we can do.

Re: server connect
 

The groghalls of Kharam Dzu are merry tonight. Our holds are stuffed with plunder from the recent conquest of Ulm, revenge for our fallen expedition to another continent (or game, in fact). Our goods can be found across most of Western Europe, bringing profit to us and any who will put their name to our treaty. Finally our comission from the admirality to free the seas for trade looks soon to be complete, as the lily livered warmwater dwelling Gwaiians tremble at the sight of the Skull and Bones.

We proclaim here and now, the seas are ours. Look not to them, but to your own lands - we have no interest in conquest, merely plunder and adventure!

Re: server connect
 

The sneaky Skaven ratmen have been beaten back by superior tactics and combined arms of the Sanguinian Vampires. All three provinces that were taken in the initial surprise attack by the stinking pus infected sewer dwellers have been recovered. Count Nadilo, the commander in charge of the mission to retake Greece, had this to say about the ratmen:

"I find the toasted flesh quite refreshing. It has a certain nutty twist in its stinkiness. I guess it's an aquired taste much like pungeant cheese. I hope to sample more of their kind soon. In fact, I'm willing to trade the choicest of my virgins for a sweet roasted haunch of the elusive Grey Seer."

Re: server connect
 

I finally killed Avernum's raiders.

So, the dwarves have announced their intention to conquer the entire ocean. I'm an ocean player, and once my amphibious army turns around and heads west, I anticipate no problems dealing with a bunch of tritons and other scum (dwarves in bathoscopes? Ooh, I'm scared).

However, as a condition of providing this service I *demand* a 3 turn NAP from Sylvania - and I am not giving him Egypt.

If he refuses my reasonable offer, I will let the dwarves have the oceans, and fling my entire army against Sylvania, ignoring all other concerns. You'll all know who to blame when the dwarves (first in research, provinces and gem income, natch) conquer the world.

I have nothing against crass opportunism but I'm sick of people who lack the good sense to resort to diplomacy when the situation calls for it.

Re: server connect
 

I don't see how demanding things of a militarily stronger opponent is a reasonable offer. It's the same 'diplomacy' you tried with me when you spotted me coming from the west - offering me one or two provinces I essentially already owned and demanding I go no further east when you had nothing to back it up. If it's going to be so easy beating me in the ocean, then I don't see why you tried that in the first place.

As for knowing who to blame if I do well, I'd guess that would be you, since you're making unreasonable demands of those around you and threatening to try and throw the game.

Re: server connect
 

Re: server connect
 

I do not object to Sombre refusing my offer of peace at-existing-borders. Sombre clearly prefers war - that's understandable, especially as he seems to think I'm defenseless.

Sombre offered that he would conquer the entire ocean and I could suck on it. I fail to see how Sombre could object if I accept his generous offer. As I can't defend my land borders and stop him at the same time, I'll not have much choice.

I already saved the lot of you from Avernum at considerable expense. I'm not going to do that again unless I get, if not support, at the least a pledge of non-interference.

Anyway, if the other players don't want Sombre to run away with the game, they'd be wise to unite against him now while it's feasible, or at least guarantee peace with those who are fighting him. If I fought Sombre while trading provinces to Sylvania in exchange for peace, *that* would be throwing the game.

I have no interest in the Atlantic. I'm perfectly happy to put up a fort in the straits of gibraltar and then stop, meaning I'll be no larger than the bulk of the other players. Sombre clearly intends to dominate the entire ocean, at which rate he'll be at least twice the size of any other player.

I should clarify: there is a difference between threatening to throw the game (which I am not doing), and in refusing to capitulate to demands.

Re: server connect
 

You didn't save anyone from Avernum, you invaded them seeking gains along with two other nations. They hardly stood much of a chance. Claiming you did it for anyone other than yourself would be like me claiming I defeated Ulm to end their threat to neighbouring nations. The fact that they chose to direct their last bit of strength against you I would guess stems from their estimation that you were the most powerful enemy attacking them.

This is the same situation - you're trying to threaten and coerce people into doing what you want while pretending it's their only option. You don't see Kharam Dzu doing that - we've offered fair diplomatic relations to everyone we've met, including you. If you show some power in the sea that makes us think you can back up your earlier offer of 'come no further' then we'll return to the negotiating table. It's rather insulting for you to try and dictate terms to us when as far as we're aware, we hold all the cards. We aren't interested in a long draining war, just in some profit and plunder. I'd also like to point out that we can't even build forts underwater and have very limited aquatic forces, so unlike Haida we have no chance of creating a sea territory that is essentially impossible to ever invade.

We also aren't near 'critical mass' in my estimation, because we still have multiple neighbours who are getting stronger, not weaker, and are poised to take huge swathes of valuable landmass that we can't even get to.

Re: server connect
 

Pirate lies!!

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Sombre said:
You don't see Kharam Dzu doing that - we've offered fair diplomatic relations to everyone we've met, including you.
****************************************

You did not offer fair diplomatic relations to (me) Ulm. You saw their weakness in the all knowing graphs and refused to negotiate.

Re: server connect
 

"You lied!"

"Uh, pirate?"


You basically told us to stay out of scandinavia because it belonged to you. As with Haida, you appeared to lack the power to go making a claim like that, so we found it rather insulting. We didn't issue a written response (IIRC) because our actions were pretty clear, blocking your route into Scandinavia before attacking you. There was also the matter of revenge for our cousins in Neo Xenkinima.*

* - In that game Ulm Reborn crushed the dwarves completely in an even quicker and more brutal way than I did to you. I know it's nothing to do with you as a player, but I thought it made an interesting pretext for an attack. You put up a great fight and cost me a lot of time and resources by the way - I hope there's no bad feeling :]

Re: server connect
 

Wow, you should be a politician Sombre, thats some mighty fine spin control there.

You attacked me after I gave into your demands for Scandinavia.

I totally gave into your claims on scandinavia, did not go in myslef, saw you take it and then use it to attack me anyways.

Not to say you broke a treaty or anything, You would not give me a treaty. This is all about your false statement

again, for the record....

***********************************
Sombre said:
You don't see Kharam Dzu doing that - we've offered fair diplomatic relations to everyone we've met, including you.
****************************************

I am just pointing out that this above statement of yours is just not true. "Pirate lies" as I said before

YOu have been caught, 'fess up


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Not taking it personal, all in good fun, it seems to have done you well. Frankly I was surprised everyine let you gain that much unoppossed. I even still think Kharam Dzu needs a boost. You did well because other nations were occuppied or asleep, great starting position, being able to see the weakness of another nation in the graphs, and good play on your part.

I am not sure what i could have done different in my situation. I cuold have groveled more I suppose, but I am pretty sure that would just worsen the "pirate pounce on the weak" syndrome that I was already seeing.

Re: server connect
 

Clearly the saying "Dead men tell no tales" doesn't work as well as we'd hoped, haharr. But dead ye are and bitter too, Ulmish spirits. Begone! We've no time for ye.

---------------------------------

People could have attacked me during my conquest of ulm, but they wouldn't have done so well for themselves as they have. Avernum was a threat, Sylvania was expanding into Spain - everyone had plenty to gain by placing their attention elsewhere. True, they gained less than me, but then they risked less too, attacking indies or gangpiling avernum.

You were just the victim of a powerful early game economy and our sailing ability.

The main thing you could have done, as far as I can see, would be to kick the hell out of my first couple of armies that crossed over. Faced with big casualties for no real gain I'd have given up and gone on to deal with more indies. But you didn't really have the early game strength to do that. In the first few battles I lost more than you, but you lost enough that I knew I'd win given a bit more time.

Turn notification script updated
 

I have removed the nations which were defeated or turned AI from the turn notification script. In case you drop out and don't want to receive the emails any longer, please send me a PM or just reply back to the notification email for that.

Re: Turn notification script updated
 

Just curious. What scales in dominion had Ulm? What God?

Re: Turn notification script updated
 

So I'm at war with Sylvania for the forseeable future; if anyone else wishes to attack Kharam Dzu (I recommend doing so soon and with great force), let me know so that I can assist in some kind of counterattack.

Re: Turn notification script updated
 

Nikolai: He had a lich, drain 3,... the rest I don't remember.

LOOKING FOR A PERMA-SUB
 

This is going to sound a bit strange, but I'd really like to find someone to take over Kharam Dzu as a player. For good. I've been really enjoying this game, but right now I'm fired up for doing mods and the turns for this game are just taking so long for me - I'm not used to managing big territories with the sheer amount of stuff going on that has turned up in this game. When a massive europe wide war kicks off (it's already in the works it seems) the time taken to do the turns will double, maybe even triple for me : /

I would fully brief anyone willing to sub in - the nation is in a strong position and the race for the big guns is just starting to hot up.

If I can't find someone, I will continue to play the game myself, but I might not devote as much time to micro and stuff as a player probably should.

Re: LOOKING FOR A PERMA-SUB
 

i would love too take your place, but i better not with school and all. Besides now I have a fear of dwarves.

I wanted to point out that there is a flaw in the map. the two sea provinces diresctlt east and south-east of spain are not connected and they clearly should be.

ulm reborn
 

Nickolai, I had a Master Lich with 2 misfortune. Usually 2 misfortune is great, but you take a greater chance you will be crippled by an early turn setback in your capitol.

Thats what happened to me, Two events that raised unrest to 60+ on the very first turn. So my army and province growth suffered greatly in the opening turns. In a non graph game i might have been hurt but ok, but with graphs visible someone could see I was at the bottom of the charts and take advantage of that weakness.

Re: ulm reborn
 

Sombre - try making a new thread for your sub hunt. That normally seems to work quite well.

Re: ulm reborn
 

Ouch! Yes, it's terrible. And Master Lich is not much as fighter... But no worries. I think New Ulm is weaker than most in game, anyway. Sylvania, Sanguinia, Avernum, these are powerhouses.

Re: ulm reborn
 

Yeah, true, those you mentioned are perhaps tougher than ulm reborn. But i got beat by the dwarvish pirates, much to my shame. I think they are objectively the most underpowered mod in this mod game.

Re: ulm reborn
 

I'm going to be taking over for sombre, where can I get the map?

Re: ulm reborn
 

I'll upload it here.

Re: ulm reborn
 

Its ok, I got it now and a new turn is up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: ulm reborn
 

The connection seems to be broken.

Re: ulm reborn
 

hmm weird my last turn seems to have been completely screwed up for some reason it is showing as a stale turn and for some reason my troops seem to have scattered everywhere

edit seems i somehow managed to stall despite never receiving any email to tell me a new turn was ready could this be because of the server going down?

server things
 

Hmm, very strange, it seems the server did indeed have a guru meditation. No idea how that happened. The log only says <font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>ModsOverEurope, Connections 1, Time 39h (quick host)
+ - - - +
Network Error
Network Error
</pre><hr />Maybe somebody killed the server somehow. It's back up now, anyway.
According to my backups, you never uploaded your turn file for last turn.

Turn 38 hosted on 2007-09-10 06:37
Turn 37 hosted on 2007-09-08 06:37
Turn 36 hosted on 2007-09-07 20:31

The timestamp for your turn file when hosting turn 38 was 2007-09-08 05:02, i.e. it was a turn file for turn 37.

You should have received turn notifications for all these turns, I know I have. Notice that turn 37 and turn 38 hosted with very short time in-between, only 10 hours. Maybe that confused you?

Re: server things
 

Ferros, I attacked your province, but I lost the battle, but not before most of both our troops fled the battlefield.

Re: server things
 

Ok I am rather confused as to how I staled again but will attempt to make sure that it does not happen again.

Re: server things
 

I am marching against the vile dwarves in my war beneath the waves.

However - it would be great if someone would attack him on land? With his advantages of scale, he can afford wave after wave of crap to retake these underwater provinces.

Re: server things
 

Or somebody could attack DrP on land, taking advantage of the fact that most of his forces are currently occupied.

Re: server things
 

WTF?

I didn't think I'd staled! In fact, I could've sworn I uploaded a turn.

Sorry about that - in a close war like this that's probably going to mean my demise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.