Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

In regards to your removal of wreckage question, I believe it has been an issue of time frame and scope of the game. I'm sure if Engineering Vehicles were given to ability to move wrecks, next folks would want them to dig hull down positions etc.

Frankly in modern combat an ARV type vehicle would be an expensive and hard to replace asset to put into real harms way to open a road in the time frame our battles occur. These assets do that stuff later once the frontlines are far removed from the offending vehicle. I feel your pain brother! More than once has a bridge as a great example, had brewed up armour sitting on it slowing my race across to secure to other side. I've thought, " If only I could order someone to "push that junk off the bridge!" alla Col Hessler.

As for bridge layers, I do believe they could be cobbled together using barge carriers and barges, something which is in my long list of things to do. If I manage this I will post for sure. Again I believe the game scope has made it a non issue and besides if needed a bridge can be laid and regular stone bridge could double as such, MAYBE someone could add a bailey type bridge into the bridge types for building maps, that would make me happy. I have in the past used a rail bridge as a Bailey.

Tank Transporters, can be handy to move slow tanks to the battle area and move damaged ones to the rear. This might be useful especially in a campaign. Personally you’d need a large map and likely a scenario in the 40’s or 50’s to make these worthwhile because in a modern battlefield these would high value interdiction targets.

The other reason for their inclusion would be for scenario building. I suppose one could use this argument for the inclusion of bridge layers as well.

Man, I love this game!!!!:fight:

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

One solution that might be feasible code-wise may be that the "engineering" points (mines, dragon teeth, tranches, barbed wire) might get to be used for say building a wooden bridge in your deployment area.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Reading again I relized that I confused "destroyed" for "immobilized". Immobilized vehicles can be removed by any unit with sufficient carry capacity.
Removing destroyed vehicles has not been discussed, not to the same extent as some other topics at any rate. I am not sure that a burning 60 tons wreck, with the ammo going off and perhaps blocked tracks due to the heat playing tricks with the automotive components is something that can be just casually pushed around but then I have never been there and done that. You might try to ask on tanknet and see what they tell you.

In regards to bridge layers there is for example a neat GSP ferry icon, n.3228, which looks quite like a pontoon bridge although it would have to be used as a ferry (which is exactly what it is in real life anyway). Here is a drawing:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/...s/Image192.gif

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I must check that out thanks for the heads up.

Bob out :D

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

This does not work, at least for bridging actual water hexes. I've tried it many times myself. A single water hex will be ringed with 6 "shore" hexes. While a barge can unload onto shore without moving into the shore hex, it must be actually on the shore hex to load the unit. Therefore the "bridge" requires at least 1 point of water movement. A craft in water without at least one point of water movement sinks anyhow, further compounding the problem. I'm not sure if the barge script allows the unloading of a unit into an adjacent hex when on a "land" hex of some sort (such as a stream or canal hex). However, it would not be able to load a vehicle unless it were in the same hex (I believe), which would also render the concept pointless. Lastly, to add in an AVLB "barge carrier," one would have to overwrite the default "barge" unit in the OOB with a bridge, removing the option to buy basic barges.

In short, I think we're stuck with barges and GSP-like items. Things like the GSP "ferry" bridge section exist in a number of armies, and are much more feasible than actual bridges.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I was thinking about the larger sea going LSTs that can carry 10-15 MBTs and 600 troops and was wondering if there was any way to add that.

For example if a unit has a carry capacity of 450 it can carry 150 pts of units with no size restriction, 550 is 250 etc.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

They'd also have to be about 3.5 hexes long ;) The carry capacity limit is hard coded, and I have to assume that if it was just a matter of setting it to a really high limit it would've been done by now. Maybe not. A little more carry capacity would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

[quote=thatguy96;635149]

You won't.

255 is the highest number you can enter for carry so anything with the capacity to carry a tank for example is limited to 55 carry points(255) Something that could carry light guns and men could be set to 199 and they would carry 99 points of men as would something with 99 carry. The first of the three numbers is the code to carry guns ( 1) or vehicles ( 2 )and once you get to the 2's you run into the maximum number ( 255 ) and that's why all the barges are usually 255

The only way to make that higher would be to tear the code apart and start over. Pretty much everything anymore is "tear the code apart and start over" becasue we've pretty much done everything else that doesn't involve tearing the code apart and starting over.IF we did decide to tear the code apart these games are dead becasue we wouldn't be using any SP code anymore and the restictions we are under becasue we are using SP code would disapear.

Andy and I discussed this years ago before the Windows upgrade and weighed the pros and cons. Had we decided to scrap the existing format we wouldn't be having this chat becasue there wouldn't be a winSPWW2 or a winSPMBT to wish it had this or that different and given the sheer number of hours it would take to rebuild a game to the same level we wouldn't be discussing that game either becasue we'd only be half way through development.

In a way a lot of this is interesting because the longer it goes on the more it looks like discussion forum wish lists after SP1 was released. :rolleyes:

The more things change the more they stay the same.;)

Don

`

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

You won't.

255 is the highest number you can enter for carry so anything with the capacity to carry a tank for example is limited to 55 carry points(255) Something that could carry light guns and men could be set to 199 and they would carry 99 points of men as would something with 99 carry. The first of the three numbers is the code to carry guns ( 1) or vehicles ( 2 )and once you get to the 2's you run into the maximum number ( 255 ) and that's why all the barges are usually 255

The only way to make that higher would be to tear the code apart and start over. Pretty much everything anymore is "tear the code apart and start over" becasue we've pretty much done everything else that doesn't involve tearing the code apart and starting over.IF we did decide to tear the code apart these games are dead becasue we wouldn't be using any SP code anymore and the restictions we are under becasue we are using SP code would disapear.

Andy and I discussed this years ago before the Windows upgrade and weighed the pros and cons. Had we decided to scrap the existing format we wouldn't be having this chat becasue there wouldn't be a winSPWW2 or a winSPMBT to wish it had this or that different and given the sheer number of hours it would take to rebuild a game to the same level we wouldn't be discussing that game either becasue we'd only be half way through development.

In a way a lot of this is interesting because the longer it goes on the more it looks like discussion forum wish lists after SP1 was released. :rolleyes:

The more things change the more they stay the same.;)

Don

`

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Thanks all, for that info. Just saved me a lot of time trying to create something that will not work.

As for the LST notion, I have in the past created maps with small islands to serve as LSV,LSD's etc for the troops landing. It took some playing around but I got it to work and it made for some interesting battles. It gave the AI something to target beside the LC's themselves and generated more causalities "at sea" than with just the Landing Craft. Just make sure they are just beyond visual range from the guns on the beach. If anybodies interested we discuss this further.

Bob out :capt:

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I wish it would, but there are some things that are unfortunately just not feasible under the current game engine, and we're generally clear on that not changing. I tried the bridge thing along with the so-called "Airmobile Artillery Platform." Turns out you can't unload from helicopters onto water hexes, so that sort of killed that too.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

What about streams/fords? Have you tried that?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

From the same post ;) :

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Oh, sorry, missed that.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Just an idle thought that occured to me when driving through our villages... What about changing wooden buildings a bit so that they can be partially transparent (visibility block similar to trees) and they may be carefully navigated with vehicles (say as when crossing the ford or stream) without being destroyed?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Please make armies with dogs !
They should find out well the opponent nearby. :up:
And also dogs-mines and so on.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I'm sure Sgt. Cujo and his subordinates would be great at following orders. Or even understanding what the heck is going on around them.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

You may try simulating doghandlers by adding scouts with +1 vision or something such.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I haven't read through all of this thread, but:

Suspension Damage!

Hedges and stone walls!(Well just have bocage in the games now)

Add these to things and the games would be absolutely perfect.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Surely we already have suspension damage: i.e. mobility kills
damage point 1. You can also mobhack this if you so desire, see
WinSPWW2 scen 9th SS in Hungary. Or am I missing something ?

Regards, Warwick

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

As Warwick said, hedge mobility damage are here already. Just try running a tank full steam into a hedgerow and see what happens... I don't know how far this goes back to in game versions, but I have noticed in V3.5 IIRC that you could get the same effect with rough slopes as well.
And the devs have been saying over and over that stone walls were a no-go, so just use hedges all over the place.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Can be make from WinSPWW2 a simulator of two world wars ?!
That is with 1914 for 1945.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Now that is an idea I would get behind. SPWW1 would be brilliant, if it were possible. There is nothing out there which tactically simulates the mobile battles off WWI (Marne, Mons, Le Cateau,1918 campaigns early phase of Verdun etc). Maybe with a little stretch it could cover the RJW as well ;)

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

There was a third party mod for WW1 that was being worked on sporadically using the DOS version. When we released the windows version we ended the practice of allowing the dates back to 1914 because it didn't fit our OOB's and we were now going to offer the game commercially. We made the offer to create a special EXE just for WW1 but nobody working on that mod responded and we totally lost what little interest we had in it.

WW1 was NOT WW2 and simply renaming things and leaving the code alone would not have made a very good game.

Every year somebody pops up asking about WW1 but the interest in it is literally a inch deep and a yard wide.

Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Fair points. I appreciate that it would be far more difficult than adding a few bits here and there. Its a shame the WW1 mod died a death, I guess I must be one of those few strange characters wanting to play the era! ;)

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

As a purely aesthetical improvement I was thinking about a wider range of artillery guns icons. The existing stock does not make justice to a lot of guns.
If somebody was willing to do some work on this and make it available for an official release it would be great.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Probably the only thing that I miss from SPWAW is ability to record in a file the combat results (alt-L key).
Is it a code problem or is it something else?(Ex. removed to add a kind of FoW)

bye
cd

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Idea: counterbattery as assignment (both for artillery and aircrafts).

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Good idea. And a paracommando unit class.

troopie

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I'd rather like offboard SAM first, am not a spec ops kind ;)

But now seriously, I have fdorgotten answer already, so... Would it be possible to have a "beaten zone" effect for HMG's and MMG's wherever they're mounted? Mening mostly forts, as they are now quite weak re. causing suppression, compared to normal MG units.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Fort class (And bunker class in WW2) now generates blast circle for MG type weapons (Type=3 and wh=1). (5 minute fix :)). 1 MG unit class was also missing from the filter in MBT - added.

MBT - the AGL class was not generating a blast circle. Bug! :hurt:. Fixed.
Also - with a little tricky code the engine now determines if a class 3 weapon is an AGL, and generates a blast circle for these. So a Land Rover WMIK with GMG or BTR80+AGS is somewhat more effective!.

Andy

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Good show - up to now they have been pretty useless: less use than a 2in Mortar!

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Thanks very much, Andy!
Fast feedback (be it positive, as in this case, or negative, with many uncodable wild ideas) by developpers is one of the things I appreciate the most with WinSPMBT/SPWW2 (apart from it being a really great game). Thanks once again.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

For campaigns PBEM and Human vs Computer.

Abandoned enemy technics and grasped by the opponent to add to the Core force.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

To make so that abandoned vechicles were evacuated in tank transporter.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Hi:
Just want to toss this out again.

How about adding in a video feature. I can think of at least 3 ways, probably from easiest to hardest.

a) Concatenate the playback from each players turn.
b) Record the script for each unit action and results, then provide it at the end of the game. May require a standalone player to play the scrip, although I think the core of the player can be stripped from the game.
b) Like, "b", but record keystrokes also in the sequence. Thus you can see things like switching guns off, artillery assignments by which FO, etc.

Option (a) is probably the easiest, since I think all that is needed is to pipe the replay to a separate file for playing and extend it after each turn. This will make a nice game playback, although a bit choppy. Probably 3rd party software to do this, since it is simply a fancy screen capture (video pipe).

Option (b) is probably the happy middle ground. Downside, most likely will require recompile of the engine unless it has a debug feature that already permits this. Also, have to hold final generation until game ends to avoid cheating. Good points - much smoother battle replay, good for training sessions, and good for discouraging any most cheating.

Option (c) Slightly more complicated than (b), but would be the ultimate in training and the ultimate in cheat detection.

Please comment.
Thanks

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

I am guessing a lot of work for a feature that does not realy add anything.
Using for cheat detection esp if shows averything as per C could go on for ages.
Big game 15 min replay for first 10 or so turns till units dwindle that would be over 3 hours for a 20 turn game.
Big replays take over 10mins just seeing engaged units & thats with fast arty on

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Can't argue about the value, that is too subjective.

The cheating part is more of a side-effect, but would/could be a discourager against those seeking to looking to cheat if there is an audit trail.

As for length of time, actually the video should be less than the game if using time compression.

I still like the training and other multimedia options that come to mind.

Feel free to toss in the burn bag. I think for those who are really interested in pursuing, there are a lot of free video capture programs. So just need two agreeable people with the ability to cut and splice digital video to do this manually.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Was not wishing to sound dismisive putting forward ideas is in my view not a bad thing its more of a priority thing. Things that make a diffrence to improve gameplay take priority. The more sweeping the improvement the more important generaly.
Only so many hours in the day blah blah

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Many times we (fans WinSP) are asked by a question...
Why from falling (it is destroyed by air defence) fighter-bomber does not jump out crew? :angel

It probably to make in WinSP ? :re:

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

What exactly would be the point for fighter-bombers, since there is nothing to re-crew (damaged planes return to base) and no core unit for the experience to be carried forwards by survivors in a campaign?.

Helos would be the only one from a campaign point of view that might benefit from crew bail out (they can be in the core) - but crashing helos kill all on board anyway. Helicopter crashes in reality tend to be pretty much 100% fatal.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

What if they get popped while landed?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

In the SP universe, they explode in a ball of flames. No survivors. It comes from the unit class. Planes and helos do not have splittable crews, nor do offmap arty, boats etc.

Andy

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

...and we have no intention of tearing apart the code to change that

Don

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Wasn't planning on asking. It would be a niche change that wouldn't buy much. Helos aren't on the ground much in the game, anyhow.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Even skilled players in " Steel panthers " often do not watch for height in hex (and in lowland there can be an ambush).
It would be useful to show height different color or in figure in everyone hex-es.

====================================
In campaign against computer-player, after destruction of yours commander-unit (index A0; B0;...) in the following battle its powers are received by another unit.
Badly that this new commander-unit with index " A1; B2;.... ". The mess when it is necessary to understand who now commander-unit turns out. It is necessary to write out on its piece of paper index, that is inconvenient.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Ya know, something I haven't tried yet...
With the new code to split off vehicle and gun crews when you load them into aircraft can you load a helo and split it's crew off?

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

It's automatic with guns and vehicles they will be split now when air dropped from fixed wing transport unless gliders (WW2) not sure if the same with heavy helo's.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Not sure if this is applicable with all heavy helos, depending on whether you carry the vehicle on a sling or in the cargo bay.
AFAIK the Mi-6 and Mi-26 can load BMDs in full combat gear (at least road-ready) so they can roll off the rear ramp as if from a glider.
Now the sling transport is another matter, but differentiating between the two modes would require new data in the "carry capacity" field. Also the 'sling' restriction should apply on towed weapons as well, though the recompletion time is much less than on vehicles.
(anything first-hand on this, Suhiir?)

Putting it like this, I'm pretty sure you can sling a vehicle in running condition (minus crew), which would require a handful of minutes to drive away, as opposed to drop-packaged vehicles which are generally, cleaned out, drained from fuel and lubricant, palletized and wrapped in cardboard or something.
Also helicopters don't separate vehicle from crew during the landing as both are dropped in the same hex. You lose half the fun of the concept.

So in the end, not sure the crews separation should apply.

Re: Ideas how to improve WinSP MBT/WW2 !
 

Apart from crew bailout :D another thing that IMHO could be improved in SPMBT aircraft is the engagement range.
Most non-bomb class 11 weapons I can think of have a two-figure range, yet I don't remember seeing aircraft starting strafing runs more than 5-6 hexes away.

On the other hand I vaguely remember reading about Soviet pilots in Afghanistan who were so afraid if Mujahedeen air defenses that they started their strafing runs some 2kms from target, their rocket salvoes being expectedly useless.

Is their any way to extend the initial firing range, maybe based on aircraft vision/FC/RF ratings?
Even better, making the start range invert-proportional to pilot morale and experience. The greener and more frightened the pilot, the more he will tend to blaze away early instead of keeping his ammo for better opportunities farther downrange.