Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

An interesting read - thanks for posting it! However I do think it reinforces the point made above in that none of Looking Glass's problems were known to their customers - and the initial commentary after their closure almost universally pointed the finger at Ion Storm.Their desktop enhancement software (I really wouldn't call it business) is critically dependent upon them maintaining a good relationship with Microsoft and it has been whittled away due to features incorporated in recent Windows versions (e.g. XP's ZipFolders obsoleting ObjectZip, XP's Themes cutting into WindowBlinds sales, Vista's Sidebar displacing Control Center).

Stardock's increased emphasis on gaming may be a desire to diversify - but it could also be an increasingly urgent attempt to exit a vulnerable and shrinking market, under threat by the world's biggest convicted monopolist.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Errr, except that Stardock's first product happened to be a game? So they are diversifying back into the market that they got their start in, and doing so with top selling titles, and high profile partnerships? They may be de-emphasizing their OS optimization software, but at the same time they are refocusing on what got them where they are today, and they're doing so with effective and clear plans.

But this is tangential to my original point - that if I take Brad at face value, as the person he portrays himself as, then I am confident that he will make his software public domain, if his company completely fails. You can argue that if things get really rough, they will enact the draconian user fees and whatnot that you seem so scared of, but I simply don't think that Stardock in particular, is a company that would stoop to such levels, as long as Brad is at the wheel.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

As this Authorization Servers article notes, if a company fails, it is the creditors that dispose of its assets. It is unlikely that anyone, even the CEO, would be able to release them free to the public without facing legal action.My view is that companies should be judged by their actions, not their PR. Stardock's PR has been great - especially compared to the train-wrecks of some other publishers (EA, 2K, etc) - but their actions (switch-and-bait DRM, imposing extra charges) differ little from the tactics used by others and the backpedaling on their "Gamer's Bill of Rights" seems to have confirmed that as PR over principle (not least since Stardock themselves don't comply - points 8-10 notably though 4 is open to debate too).

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

As always, facts are facts. But agreement often depends on the choice of words used to define the facts.

Backpedaling could also be called "learning" or "flexibility". Brad's "Gamer's Bill of Rights" initially had points in it which were wonderful but just didnt hold up in the real world. We all wish they had, but I cant hold it against him for figuring out that it needed some changes.

As to the other persons comment on Brad's reliance on MicroSoft that might be true but Id find it surprising. Brad's entry into the MS arena is actually fairly new for him. I knew him well before that and he was already well known in the areas of AI, gaming AI, and alternative marketing. For as long as he was a very vocal anti-MS person, until MS finally became capable of what he wanted (with WinXP irrc), Id be surprised that he has become such a staunch convert that he isnt keeping his eye on other directions to jump to. IMHO

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

True. People should review the details and decide for themselves. The "no harmful software" removal seems hard to justify though.New? The first release of Windowblinds was over 10 years ago. What sort of timescales are we looking at here? ;)

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

IIRC Brad was well-known on Usenet for game AI in 1992 or so.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Honestly I'm pretty sure this was only removed in wording, for "political" purposes. He wants to shake things up a bit in the market, but he doesn't want everyone pissed at him for implying that they are deliberately installing malware with their products

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Brads entry into the Win territory was announced with his thrill that Windows had finally achieved at least a workable simulation of threaded
Its not hard to find many posts in groups.google.com for Brad Wardell. I couldnt find the thread where he announce his Windows version of GalCiv and why he had decided to do it. Something to do with multi-threading.

But here are a couple of fairly telling articles which tend to give BWs positions the way I remember it.

Brad Wardell Apr 27, 1995
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...66a583e2?hl=en

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Interesting piece of nostalgia - but come on, 13 years can hardly be described as "fairly new"!

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Hey! Im old!
No actually his announcement of shifting to windows was in the 2000's someplace Im sure. And if it is WinXP he is talking about that has achieved what he considered to be minimal support for his games then it wasnt all that long ago.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Hello Dominions 3 community. I just recently discovered Dominions 3, and I must say I am blown away by how excellent (and unique) the game is. I stayed up till the break of dawn last night winning my first completed game against the machine, and it was great time.

I decided I wanted to buy the game, so as not to embarrass myself when trying to engage in multiplayer, so I came here. Then I was quite shocked by the price tag.
Then I couldn't find the "buy downloadable version" button.
Then I came to the message boards, and found this thread in the FAQ.
Then I read this, and felt bad.

I think good people probably won't like hearing what I'm going to say. But they should know that the quoted text above is not really... reality. *snip*

Now, I admit to not knowing anything about the business side of these things, but my friends, I fear you are functioning off of some really bad information. With the combination of the games sparing graphical presentation, shocking pricetag, and absence of direct-download option, vs. how insanely easy it is to pirate, I honestly cannot fathom how you expect people to NOT pirate it.

I really hope that if you choose not to offer direct downloads, you do it for good reasons and not bad reasons. These honestly seem like erroneous reasons.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Have you tried that downloaded game? And did it come with a couple PDF files or the full 300 page manual as a pdf file? :)
I check the available files on a regular basis. They tend to be older versions, which develop menu problems quickly, and wont patch forward successfully. Thats part of the protection scheme for this game. Appearing to be a good download, but it only plays enough to make you want to buy a fully working version.

Occassionally I find a working latest version, but the next patch tends to wipe it out. (and we just had a patch)

Gandalf Parker
--
Planning Committees for Internet, SysAdmin for ISPs, Administrator for servers, Channel Ops for IRC, paid Moderator for web forums and newsgroups. Honeypots, Forensics, Enforcer. Whatever you think NetCop is, Ive been.
Ive even got the shirt! http://www.cafepress.com/oddthotz/740452?pid=2837642

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

...
I admit that in retrospect I felt sorry for the title for being so difficult to acquire legally and so easy to acquire illegally. I like the game. I want to support the game (now that I know how good it is.) But I'm disinclined to pay money to buy myself a hassle. And sitting around with my thumb up my *** for a week, so that I can receive some more annoying physical possessions I get to lug around with me till I die, all for the low low price of $60, seems like quite a lot of hassle. I'll buy the game, but I honestly feel like I'm being punished for wanting to do the right thing. I'd rather be punished with annoying DRM crap than this. And I'm quite certain I'm not a beautiful and unique snowflake and nobody feels this way but me.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Well Ive paid that for much prettier games that lasted a month on my machine. Paying it for a game that lasts years seems like a good deal.

From what you say it looks like I need to go searching again. Expect your downloaded key to not work in the next patch. :evil:

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I hope you do regardless of the ill fated first posts. Feel free to contact the administrators to see about having your banning reversed if you do purchase the game, but promoting piracy on these forums will not be tolerated.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Pirating is easy? Amazing! Who woulda thunk! Thanks for opening my eyes. :crazy:

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Serious question: What about the folks at Shrapnel having a sit down of sorts with the folks at GoG www.gog.com and seeing how things would pan out to, eventually, try a digitial distro route solely with the out of print and long out of print titles Shrapnel still has a claim to? GoG, in my experience, has been an entirely different entity to Steam, Gamersgate, Impulse, etc. Really, where else could the classics fit in with their contemporaries of the times? They support freeware as well along these ends.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Ummmm.... have you ever visited Shrapnels site?
Shrapnel does do digital distro with some of its titles.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Because our games never go out of print. ;) Games which we do not offer anymore are because our contracts with the developers have ended. The fact that games don't have an artificially imposed life cycle is one of the reasons that indie publishing is superior to AAA publishing, and was one of the reasons you started seeing a rise in the indie world in the late '90s. Some folks got tired of a two week window to sell a game, followed by the bargain bin, ending with it vanishing.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Altho...
some do have previous versions. Such as Dom1 and Dom2.
Im not sure if that would be worthwhile but it was a thought.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Okay, yeah hadn't thought about that, but given a choice between the latest and greatest and an earlier incarnation, would anyone really want to go backwards?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

It would be an answer for those who complain loudly about not having DD for Dom3. People overseas or just in a hurry. Particularly if it was offered at a lower price than it was originally sold for.

Or offering purchases of serial keys for those older versions.

I dont know if anything would come of it but at least then we could say "well you CAN get Dom2"

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

why did banned user's post get snipped just at the point where he was going to explain what reality is?

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I don't know what he said, but immediately after Carrie Fisher said something to Peter Cushing before he locked her away in the dungeon.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Look at the edit reason of the post, as entered by Ballbarian:

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Because reality would begin to unravel and you might discover that we are all just human batteries that power the internet. :pc:

(Or probably what Edi said. He is usually right. :) )

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Yeah, that was primarily what I meant. Like, I ran into one guy online that had actually heard of Dominions III before due to having owned and played Dominions II. By his reckoning, he preferred II due to feeling III had too many options and thought it might be a better starting point for me to track down a copy of II rather than jump headfirst into III. Of course, by the time he'd mentioned this, I'd already ordered Dom III and Scalywag off of here without so much as touching the demos...but it does give food for thought.

I've seen some spots, even that piracy idiot, cite the high price as a barrier of entry as to just how out there a game Dom III can apparently be. So, if say Dom 1+2, or something, were offered at a cheaper price by the likes of GoG, then they could get an "appetizer" as opposed to a demo "taste" and then perhaps be less dissuaded by the high pricetag and grab Dominions III.

For newcomers, aside from the weird ones like me, they might have a better disposition towards the lot of it by playing the games in the order they existed so as to have a better sense of how far it has come and where it is seemingly heading.

Mainly I was intending to interject an entirely different player, GoG, compared to Steam and the like upon which it can get divisive to the notion of digital distro in general. Had I discovered Shrapnel, Dominions, etc some years back I wouldn't be quite so late to the party that is Dom III---and I reckon it is likely that there are other folk like me out there that have been missing out these past several years. Besides, a new game is a new game to somebody the first time they encounter it when you get right down to it---"age" only becomes relevant after the fact.

Otherwise, it never hurts to have games you already provide a free download for in another place where a prospective audience could come across it unawares and then perhaps find their way here. Can't Google it if you've not seen or heard about it, and there's something to be said to preaching to the choir if the latest and greatest along with the classics doesn't make the rounds in foreign venues to show newcomers what's up.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I say this every time these threads come up.

But always been bewildered by the lack of digital distribution which would help. Since i've never seen the game advertised anywhere ..

And then when people finally do find it.. They find a game that costs 50,55 dollars and with no digital distrubtion option you are looking at 60 + for a game that doesnt have the production values of other games priced at the same value.

Which has basically turned off everyone i've ever tried to get into the game. And i try with anyone i can at every opportunity .

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I totally believe that to be true.

However the "magic numbers" for changing such things are well known and have been for a long time to anyone who has ever taken a marketing class. What you say would still be true for someone no matter what things are set to. There will always be some that do and some that dont at every level.

Everything has its pros and cons. There are excellent reasons to change. And many reasons why the things are done the way they are done now. Believe me, Shrapnel and Illwinter are not blind to the pros and cons.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

About playing DOM II: i still play dom2 freqüently in my notebook, even having dom3, as my notebook isn´t powerful enough to run Dom3 satisfactorily, while it plays Dom2 just fine (with minimum graphics), and i´m constantly traveling so i end playing more Dom2 than Dom3 some months...

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

You don't have to go to a school to learn how a cost:benefit ratio works.....

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

There isnt much you HAVE to go to college to understand. Its just a compilation.

But it includes more than cost/benefit. Many people dont understand why so many products are priced 5.99 or 19.99 or 59.99. Or diminishing numbers when operating on a niche market. Or the difference between marketing and publicity.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Well i understand why they havnt wanted to lower the price cause of a niche market and that good stuff at first ..


But its been 2 and a half years a price cut couldnt hurt or atleast digital distrubtion to help lower the costs on a allready expensive product wouldnt be that terrible either.

I really think a lack of digital distribution kills there chances at an impulse buyers.. I know when i bored i end up buying something off gamers gate or steam.. I wouldnt buy it if i was going to have to wait for it to ship to me threw snail mail .

And i dont think the game is that niche..

Kings Bounty has been pretty popular, The recently awful Heroes of might and magic series pumps outs expansions and sure another is in the work besides there browser one they are working on.. One of the most popular mods for Civ4 is the fall from heaven mod.. And Stardocks elemental war of magic is one of the more eagerly awaited games . All of these are turn based strategy fantasy games that are pretty popular .And these are just the ones i remember off the top of my head

Dom3 i've never seen it advertised anywhere , and it costs alot more than all those doesnt match up in the graphics department . So i know alot of people overlook it without a second thought.

But as said i harp on this everytime these threads pop up. And ill do it every time one comes up hoping something changes

. And no matter what the price is ill keep recommending the game to anyone i know who enjoys strategy games and maybe ill get someone to give it a try ..

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Well the point is that if you had Shrapnel's sales figures, you had estimates of costs for DD solutions, and you had ballpark figures on the % of people who will only buy through DD, you can pretty easily see whether or not it would be cost effective.

I do agree, that I think it's silly that people who have not even one of those three pieces of information, try to argue the point.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Another point is that DD is not a finalized solution. It is a proven one, but not a finalized one. There is no ready-made package for providing DD which is secure for both customer and distributor. Its not like shopping carts, or online sales. Basically the concept of DD is still alpha for each company doing it.

Figuring in the possible gains of a slightly increased market vs the possible losses of putting the biggest money-maker onto DD too soon is likely to also fit into the formula.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I think this has started to change, or has been taken care of already. Valve's Steam has been around for a while, and it's offering services to third-party games. Steam's competitors might still have some quirks to take care of, but since they already have Steam to copy from they can focus on the security issues. Even the newest game consoles offer games (mostly small ones) through their network services.

Not that it necessarily affects Shrapnel Games' decisions.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

in the ramp up to the Wii, Nintendo actively stamped out any trace of ROMs of Nintendo published games across the interwebs; all because they intended to make all these old games available as downloads on the Wii and didn't want the presence of ROMs cutting in.

Not that it had any effect, seriously. First off, the experience of playing a game on an actual console, with proper sound, control, and a big TV is leagues beyond a ROM on an emulator. If I had a ROM on an emulator that I liked, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase it if I could play it on my console and it was as easy as getting it through DD. Second off, Nintendo didn't really do much by stamping out the presence of ROMs through direct download except to push connoisseurs to package all the Nintendo published ROMs in torrent downloads and provide a large population of active torrents for these ROMs, allowing them to all be gotten at once for much easier; Iron Law of Prohibition strikes again.

Back to my main point. DD is beyond alpha. It's being used by major corporations to give greater coverage to their marginal products.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Digital distribution issues aside, which I know next to nothing about, I don't know what the fuss is about the price.. maybe it's because games are so overpriced here in australia, but this was a lot cheaper than most games I'd find in a store. In terms of impulse buying, surely this isn't the kind of game that many people buy on impulse?

It is exactly because of the kind of game it is and the depth in gameplay alongside fairly primitive graphics that is why I don't see its value diminishing over time. Graphics were never the selling point, as they are in a lot of modern games. Gameplay is where dominions shine and that hasn't degraded relative to the competition whatsoever since it was released. It's one thing for a flashy new game with mint graphics built for the latest video cards, which 2 years down the track are outdone by newer games, but Dominions is still just as desirable to its niche audience, especially with all of the patch updates.

I also don't think you can really say there are lots of TBS fantasy alternates by pointing to a non-commercial mod (Civ 4's fall from heaven) or game that hasn't even hit beta (elemental), while HOMM is a very different game and hasn't had a new release for a couple of years now.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Compare dom3 in price to other fantasy strategy games released years ago. I don't think people are making a fuss about it, it's just that it's an expensive game. I don't know about pricing in Australia but dom3 still costs more than most new pc games in the UK, provided you shop smart. Something you aren't able to do with dom3.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

We have been talking about it long enough. I think that most people agree that downloadable version would be a good idea. But we are not Shrapnel. I don't like Shrapnel personally. They just happened to get one good game - Dominions. I think their business model is flawed and that they have no idea about selling games or doing any advertisement.

And yeah, pirating dominions is very easy. It's not hard to find it. It comes with full manual in pdf. But you don't get multiplayer. Or latest patches. Partly because hackers rather don't care so much about a niche game with small playerbase.

My dream is that Illwinter makes Dom4 with new code and most of desired features and releases it through someone else.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Much of this comes down to value perceptions on top of awareness. For example, Elven Legacy comes out in another week or so for about $30. Stardock's Elemental comes out in a year or so for about $50. Dom III runs about $60 for the last good while.

Is Elven Legacy a budget piece of junk due to such a low price? Doubt it.
Is Dom III overpriced considering the stream of content and fixes? Nope.
Is Elemental asking too much versus the cost of Elven Legacy? Nope

All 3 games have entirely different business situations and mindshare among the consumers going for them. Thus it is little wonder the pricing schemes are different. However, in terms of visibility, Dom III falls far behind the other two since they can leverage off of each other's presence in one or more high traffic areas for gaming enthusiasts.

None of these games are for "everyone". Thus, and has been showcased through the years from the sales of predecessors, there is a limited but decently sized market of players that either have bought into this style before, are currently doing so, or might be a candidate to do so due to gaming tastes in peripheral genres. I fall into the latter as a Roguelike guy and only discovered Dom III by a combination of accidents and sudden realizations.

So, if you've a pool to draw from, best take whatever low cost measures possible to get visibility and a sustained presence to said pool. The more choices the consumers can be informed about, the better the overall experience and competition between all concerned. There's ALWAYS overlap in a niche at some point, ALWAYS---so better sooner than later.

The price point in terms of perceived value to an enthusiast is also something to bear in mind. Think of it this way: If Dom III came out and never saw a single patch/update, same for the upcoming Elven Legacy and Elemental, would one really expect any of the titles to maintain their launch price a year after the fact and perceived value to the target enthusiast audience? I should think not barring a magical release of a perfect and fully realized product. Because the developers and community have continued to work hard and regularly improve the game well beyond when it was first released, I see it as perfectly logical that the price has not collapsed significantly as a reaction to the many people who simply then would not have paid the starting amount for a game abandoned after launch.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Hey D3 forums

Fully cognizant of the degree to which it is bad netiquette, another newbie registers just to post in an old thread! I hope you'll be forgiving. I'm in a mood to blather about economics. :)

I'm a Mac user. There aren't that many Mac games. A few days ago I was on macgamestore.com glaring annoyed at the release of some new 'AAA' strategy game (maybe was it a C&C?): boxed product, no demo available. I clicked around various related listings. Ended up with the D3 demo on my machine. Ran through the tutorial. And another demo game. It's awesome, I'm in love, I have to have it.

A few days, a couple exhausted demo games, and much fruitless internet scouring later, I'm here to blather about economics. If I could have bought D3 as a digital download for an appropriate price, I would have by now. Appropriate price? At certain points in these last days, my willingness to pay has certainly been over $200.

I'm not a unique or beautiful snowflake, but the value of something is a bit different to every person. I like my instant gratification. I calculate an expectation of the value I will derive from something and don't need to shop for deals (though I do shop for deals sometimes because I derive pleasure from that activity itself). I have evaluated D3 as a game that could provide (a very high level of enjoyment) * (a very large number of hours) = a lot of value to me. I have sufficient disposable income and an inclination to express appreciation for people who create value for me. And I have an extreme aversion to physical goods.
[these things have of course not always been true. *reminisces about being a snowflake* ]

To me, the ecological costs of physical distribution relative to digital distribution are unacceptable. There are a number of embedded assumptions in this, some of which may be naive. But all of the issues discussed in this thread about technical difficulties and costs of digital distribution are I believe inherently solvable by technology. If here in 2009 we're really not there yet it'd be kinda astounding (I think we are), but would just mean it'll be next year, or the year after. Transaction costs of digital distribution decrease with technological improvements much more rapidly than transaction costs of physical distribution do. Torn damp packages and four months waiting for customs in Brazil are transaction costs of physical distribution that are much less likely to be 'solved' in the next iteration of technology than transaction costs of digital distribution like resuming downloads.

I find it quite interesting that Tim said support costs for digital distribution are much higher than for physical distribution. It wasn't really clear from how you stated it, but I assume you must have meant the 17:1 comparison was for DD of a game vs. PD of that same game, and that this ratio was similar across all games that have DD and PD options? to control for quality differences between those games for which DD is available and those for which it's not.
I don't know the timescale over which these things can shift... is this 17:1 still the case (1+yr later)?
That's an issue to solve which should be solvable.

I'm a little unclear on part of the marginal cost stuff for the producer/seller side. I understand that due to the efficiencies of scale of physical manufacture, the marginal cost of a physical unit decreases with the number of units produced. But Tim's post seems to go further, saying that the marginal physical unit actually decreases the cost of previous units,.. that marginal cost of a physical unit is actually _negative_?! That seems like a broken (illogical, distorted, unsustainable) system, that must eventually be replaced with something better (more sane).

My impression is that at the scale digital systems are operating, marginal cost of a marginal unit is essentially flat (possibly not true for the cost structure of some of the transaction systems Shrapnel is using?). And I basically expect that as technology 'gets there,' marginal cost of digital distribution should go to zero, in a way that marginal cost of physical distribution *can't*. So given the choice of a marginal transaction as digital or as physical, I would expect the seller should prefer digital.
But Tim seems to say that once your fixed costs for physical are paid, the marginal cost of a physical unit is actually negative. Which seems counterintuitive to be point that it's really hard to believe. I don't know how much physical production costs, but I know how much it costs to ship a gig of data across the web, and it's a lot less than shipping a package across the United States, or around the world.


For me, as a buyer, transaction cost of digital is faaaar lower than transaction cost of physical. Many people have mentioned in this thread many reasons why transaction cost of digital is lower for them; I share most of those; my ecology neurosis is the only new factor I'm adding to the list. So the price tag I'm willing to pay for the digital transaction is far higher than the price tag I'm willing to pay for the physical transaction.
When I compare a theoretical physical purchase vs. digital purchase of the same software, my cost evaluation is like
[physical] price tag + s&h price + disappointment that I can't use immediately + ship time + receiving package + chance of delivery failure + handling physical media + cutting spine off manual + scanning manual + OCR'ing manual + search still won't be as good as if I'd gotten the manual directly as a text file + recycling physical material + regret about physical material that can't be recycled/wasted resources = total cost to me
vs
[digital] price tag - instant gratification = total cost to me
Most of those costs don't vary in size much from hour to hour or day to day. Instant gratification is the one exception. I'm not going to run through estimating dollar values to each, but you get the idea how there could be some moment at which it is more efficient (lower total cost) for me to pay $200 for a digital download than $60 to order a shipped box.

[I should note, in this scenario one very significant part of transaction cost is already paid in both cases: search cost. I have already incurred a large cost in reaching the point where I have some assessment of the expected value to me of the good (the determination that I want it). Had D3 not offered a downloadable demo, I certainly would never have reached that point.]


This is all in a world where seller and marginal buyer are considering whether marginal transaction should be digital or physical, and considering only marginal buyer's willingness to pay. There are all sorts of reasons why reality is nothing like this, including that markets with seller-set take-it-or-leave-it prices don't lend themselves to price discrimination, and that buyers might be freeloaders.


One person drew ire earlier in the thread by saying that the pirates offer better customer support. That comment is exactly right, for the specific meaning that those groups fearlessly minimize transaction costs. That transaction cost decrease can be even more significant in the effect on total cost for a consumer to acquire the good than the decrease in price tag, as transaction costs are often much higher than price tag. The great successes of licensed online distribution have been in online stores that effectively drive down transaction cost (including search costs). iTunes store? Steam? Yeah.


It's getting late where I am so I'm not going to delve into freeloading or anti-freeloading countermeasures right now, interesting though they are.

I understand that digital distribution for D3 isn't gonna happen. I'm not trying to make it happen. Just blathering about economics :)
Tim's contention that offering digital distribution isn't likely to increase sales is I think right. Potential buyers (again I am only talking about non-freeloaders) will either assess the likely value to them of D3 as so high that they are willing to accept the higher transaction costs (as every other poster in this thread I think has), or they wouldn't buy the game via DD for $60 anyway. Given a single price, offering DD would just shift buyers from PD, not significantly change sales volume.

We typically see DD and PD offered at the same price tag for software, or often DD has a lower price tag. The economics say that sellers really should be putting higher price tags on the DD. But of course in reality, that triggers all sorts of nastiness like 'other psychological effects.' :p
$200 for a game download? preposterous!
right? right? :D
Illwinter, Shrapnel, will you sell me a DD of D3 for $200 Paypal?


I'm not going to order a physical box. I may be the first actual missed sale. :(

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

I love when someone outside of a business uses the term naive. What an incredible assumption. I dont feel like tackling your whole post but here are some (also now just another outsider) points to bring up.

A) Shrapnel does have DD games

B) the examples you give (iTunes, Stream) are examples of $1.99 or $9.99 products? You seem to feel this is done because it can be done cheaper, not because its the media for any already cheap products?

C) DD is not yet an accepted secure method. Much of the support for it comes from claims of broken, partial, or un-installable downloads. And the working DD companies all have their own software for delivery/tracking which they are not sharing

D) bringing a price down does not have nearly the effect on increased sales when its a non-competitive market as people seem to think

E) I am sure that Shrapnel is continually re-evaluating all of their products as possible DD sales as the technology advances to make it worthwhile to entrust their big hitters to it

F) I would suspect that the loss of your sale is no surprise. Im guessing it was already figured into the statistics.

Re: Why Not Digitial Distribution?
 

Well to throw my 2 cents in, it is entirely possible that had I only recently learned of Dom3 I might have passed on acquiring in favor of a something more easily obtained through Stardocks Impulse or Steam, although I'm not as big a fan of Steam. Or through my local Gamestop or Bestbuy. But then again I like to lay in bed and look at a printed manual too And ultimately if I were given a choice between instant gratification or a nice thick manual to look at and take with me to read at lunch at work I'd probably go with the physical copy, after all it was an article in a gaming mag Tom Vs. Bruce which was written by the author of the Dom3 Manual that got me to look at Dominions 3 in the first place. However with that being said. I'd have also probably paid a bit extra for an Instant digital download + my physical copy of the game.

In the beginning I was completely opposed to the services like Steam and Impulse and was very annoyed that some of them would not allow you to play the games that you had purchased unless you were online and logged into their particular service.

However with that being said I have come to appreciate certain aspects of them. For example I am notorious for loosing old manuals or jewel cases that had my CD key printed on them, and with my purchases from Stardock or Steam even the ones that I physically buy at the store after registering the product I no longer have to worry about loosing the CD Key or even loosing the disc itself because I know that if I ever do I can just log on to my Impulse account (And probably steam too) and it will show all the games I have a right to and I can just re-download the specific game I would like to play again with no fuss. Its really very nice. In fact I'm not sure I could put my hands on my Dom3 manual at the moment were I forced to format my computer or if I were to have a Hard drive failure and I would definitely be wishing I had had an option to register it on a service like Impulse.