Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

The Tomb Kings were made be llamabeast, not me. Excellent mod though.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

It's a little confusing, since there are two mods that seem to be based on Warhammer skellies: the Stygian Desert one by Amos, and the Tomb Kings by Llamabeast. Both are excellent, and neither one was made by Sombre, who's made the most Warhammer-based mod nations of anyone.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

I don't think Stygian desert is based on warhammer. Did Amos say it was?

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Nah, I just looked at it now. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with Warhammer.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

I kind of assumed it was, but I could certainly be wrong about that. It does remind me of Tomb Kings, atleast vaguely, but that's looking at it from the outside, and from what I remember 6 months ago, or more. So if it's not, then I appologise to Amos for the mistaken identity.

I'll add in my defense that Amos does fantastic mods that are some of my favorites, but they're generally so original and so complex that it's hard to remember with much precision what's going on in them (beyond the very general), without looking at them. And the mod descriptions-even the threads about the mod-don't help much to alleviate that.

So half-remembered undead + desert + guarding "secrets" = in my mind something "Tomb Kings"ish. *shrug*

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

I've made a quick upgrade, new zip is attached.

It's a very minor tweak of some prot values and making it so you can actually cast the Sotek Spawning from the Blood school.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Regarding the temple guard... for its price, as a recruitable everywhere sacred, it does seem to be pretty strong. Just about any bless would be very good with them, and their only real major weakness is their lowish mr. Two natural attacks, one with the obsinite halberd is a real killer though. That kind of combination of damage output, defensibility and recruit-everywhere status is very rare.

Of course, I'm biased because I may have to fight off a sacred lizard rush very soon.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

You may be right. I just toned down their prot a bit. I want them to be recruitable anywhere because the lizards are in many ways like Mictlan - their sacred warriors are their elite and can be found wherever there are Slann.

However the cost might need pushing up a little.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Yeah, that does make sense. It might also be nice to increase the resource cost a little so there's at least SOME detriment to taking a heavy sloth scale.

Also, near as I can tell the dormancy state on slann doesn't actually decrease their upkeep.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Hmm. It should do. I was under the impression shifting to a form with a lower goldcost reduced upkeep.

Let me test it quickly.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Yep they definitely change your upkeep. It just doesn't change on the fly on the top right income display. You have to wait a turn.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Okay! Having played with the Lizardmen a bit I have some comments.

Firstly, this an awesome mod. Definitely up there with my very favourites.

My biggest suggestion regards with the Skink priests. They are lovely units, easy to recruit and great for research. But, they're almost unusable in battle. They all have low paths, which seems reasonable, and it seems they are perfect for using in a communion. However, because of the quirks of the way communion behaves in Dom3 you can only effectively have one communion master. Once the first master has cast, all following slaves won't do anything.

So basically, you can use the Skink priests uncommunioned, which is fairly useless, or with a Slann or two. Slann are great but they're scarce, and you don't want to have to use them all the time. Further, because the Slann are automatic communion masters, having even a single Slann present stops all the priests casting (or rather, all those with higher unit number than him). So this is a bit sad really. I was even considering recruiting Priests of Sotek just so I could set them as sabbath masters and have them rain fiery and viney death down on the opposition, but I don't want to recruit heretics just for that, and besides sabbath master is rubbish.

Here's my suggestion: Add a new Skink priest unit, of a slightly higher rank. Have him cost more, 100-120 gold, and have a fixed astral pick as well as 50% nature and the same other picks as the ordinary priest. So on average he'd only have half a pick more than the ordinary priest. This higher ranked priest wouldn't be an automatic communion slave, and so could be used as a communion master for packs of skink priests. It wouldn't be an overly powerful option, but would add a nice alternative to using Slann.

Right, on to my other unit-by-unit comments:

Skink skirmishers: Great, although I'm unclear on when javelins would be better then blowpipes. Probably they do a bit more damage.

Skink archers: Don't think I'd ever recruit these, as they seem inferior to the javelins and blowpipes. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Skink (blowpipes): These are nice. But from a thematic point of view, it really makes no sense to me that they ignore shields. They can't be that accurate. And indeed, they aren't even very accurate (prec 10).

Red crested skinks: Awesome, I like these little guys.

Chameleon skinks: Haven't used them yet, but they look fine. Bit expensive maybe. Their blowpipes aren't amazing in the same way as poison bows, given that they only have range 10.

Skink cavalry: These seem very expensive to me. I can't really justify recruiting them. I'd suggest 20 gold or slightly over.

Terradon rider: These seem extremely expensive to me. I definitely wouldn't buy them. You'd spend a fortune getting 10 and they'd get mashed up and rout straight away. They have a great deal less staying power than the skink cavalry because they have bad defense as well as bad protection. I'd suggest maybe 30-35 gold.

Saurus warriors: All awesome. I like these guys, but they're not too powerful. Quite vulnerable to missile fire, it seems.

Temple Guard: I've not found these guys excessive, but then I haven't tried a really strong bless. I think their price may well be okay though - presumably they are a strength of the nation.

Saurus Cavalry: Expensive but worth it.

Kroxigor: I'm a bit unsure about these guys. I don't think they can really be your main fighters, simply because they're big and expensive. I've tried using them just to absorb punishment, but they're not actually that tough. I'd definitely rather have 4 saurus for any situation I can think of. Maybe they should have a little higher protection, or else be a little cheaper?

Salamander: Looks good with the newly increased price. Was a bit too good before.

---
Commanders
---

Apart from the above comments about the skink priests, I think these are all excellent. I've not tried using the Priests of Sotek, but it seems they could lead to a good blood economy. The commanders and the Slann all seem to work very well. The Slann sprites are coming along nicely.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Skink archers aren't bad if you just need massed bowfire on low prot units. They aren't going to be that great against heavy or even light infantry, but I think they'd be fairly useful on most undead and vine men/carrion.

Kroxigors seem more like a back up unit for the most part, but they'd be really useful if you were fighting, for example, abysia playing with a bless strategy.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Thank you for the praise HoneyBadger. But "Stygian Desert" is definitely not a Warhammer nation.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

If I should ever get another chance, I'll happily verify that, Amos. :)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Thanks for your very positive feedback llama. Let me address some of the points you raised.

Skink Priests: As you said, they are largely there to act as noncasting slaves for the Slann. They also perform minor duties that are beneath the slann, such as raising temples/labs, astral site searching, magic dueling, blessing sacred raiders, researching etc. As such they are absolutely essential to the every day running of the nation. So there's part of me that's tempted to just say "Tough, Skink Priests aren't there to cast battle spells, especially if there's a Slann present." But it isn't entirely true. They actually can be used relatively easily in a reverse communion - just make sure you don't use one of those Slann you recruited at the start of the game - recruit one specifically for the purpose of the reverse communion with the priests (I believe this is a sure fire way of getting them to come before him in the order of battle, correct me if I'm wrong). They will then be able to spam mind burn, paralyze, lightning bolt or whatever.

I'd actually say the reverse communion is the quirk rather than the master and noncasting slave one, which is what I intended. But I'm happy with both working for the Slann. I would consider the fact that the Slann are scarce and are essentially your only battle-mages to be a key weakness of the nation. I didn't intend skinks to commune with each other (though they can be used by Sotek, you're right),... I wonder what would happen if you just scripted a skink to cast communion master? Perhaps he would cease being a slave and become master of the other skinks.

"it would add a nice alternative to using Slann" - you aren't supposed to have an alternative ;P



Skirmisher: Javs do more damage and are boosted by something like strength of giants. But most importantly the skink skirmishers have shields - for an army like lizards this makes them a prime choice against crossbows, composite bows, javs, stuff that is going to hurt saurus pretty bad.

Skink archers: Basically they just have much longer range. I'm thinking of giving them more ammo too. Also,.. though I'm not sure, I think they benefit from flaming arrows while blowpipes do not.

Skink (blowpipes): You're right. I'll up the precision and decrease damage. They are already quite accurate though, as prec 10 at the ranges they can fire at means they rarely miss. My reasoning to have them ignore shields is more of a gameplay thing - it gives them a role as the killers of the shielded skirmish troops. They can't do jack against anything with armour though, which makes sense to me.

Chameleon Skinks: I may make them cheaper. They are expensive because they are a special unit with absurd stealth (40) and because I consider poison missile weapons to be buggy (and overpowered). I'll have to give the chameleon scout leader 10 if I haven't so their stealth means something. I'm also tempted to give them glamour, representing their extreme stealth, or some sort of dodge based 'shield', because of their ability to see threats coming from any angle.

Skink cavalry: They aren't cheap, but they can actually do a lot of damage on the flank charge - light lance + horned one attacks are no joke. Though they are fragile in the sense that the skink is easily killed, the horned one will fight on, so they can be a one shot weapon sometimes. I might drop them to 25 tonight.

Terradon rider: I'm changing them to size 3 and tweaking them a bit. They are supposed to be like more expensive but even faster versions of the skink cavalry. Like the cavalry though I think their low morale might stop them from attacking rear properly,.. so,.. they'll be improved but I don't know by how much.

Kroxigor: They aren't frontline troops at all and if used as such, will perform much worse than saurus for the cost. The combination of poor skills, no shield and only medium prot with size 3 just leaves them in a world of hurt. They're also far more expensive than say, ogre bulls. The role they are /amazing/ at is killing high prot units. They hit for an /absurd/ amount of damage with their clubs, the only trouble is getting them to land. They were designed to be used mixed in with skinks (who travel at about the same speed) so the skinks reduce the defence with multiple attacks, allowing the krox's land their clubs. Against knights, ulm/agartha/Empire/Dwarf troops and the like they should work better than saurus, who struggle against high prot units. They also represent, like the salamander, an even crazier gold to resource ration. However I will consider tweaking them based on some tests. You get them in PD over 20 by the way. Few of them though.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Thanks for all that Sombre, all sounds great.

Apart from these pesky priests...

So, you can set a load of the priests to be communion masters. However, they also remain as slaves. What this means is that as soon as one of them casts a spell, the remaining ones are unable to take an action. So you can only effectively have one master.

Recruiting a Slann to come last is very unreliable. Units can have lower unit numbers to fill in gaps as earlier units die I think. Just doing test, I had a lot of difficulty in getting a Slann with a higher unit number than 4 priests. What bothers me more about this, though, is the real metagaming nature of it. The fact that some Slann should be significantly superior to others just by virtue of having a higher unit number bugs me.

Finally, I'm not quite sure I understand how you'd plan on using the reverse communion. Those slaves that get to cast before the master do not have boosted levels. The only possibly advantage to them is if the master casts Power of the Spheres or another booster spell. Otherwise they are stuck casting their level one spells.

So really, I don't think there is any very satisfactory way to get any useful spells out of those lovely priests, apart from the one communion master you can have per battle. This makes me sad. Go on, stick in a non-slave priest, please? (This is not genuine begging of course, obviously do whatever you think best.) The only difference he really needs to have is not to be an automatic slave, although having automatic astral would make a lot of sense. I guess what frustrates me is that the usefulness of the priests is greatly hampered by the fact that they are automatically slaves, which is meant to be a benefit. It's a shame you can't just somehow turn it off.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Another point I forgot to mention about kroxigor is that they have mapmove 2 with forest and swamp survival and are considerably faster than Saurus Warriors in battle, while being cheaper than Saurus Cavalry (quite a bit cheaper really). Try using them with Skinks and see if they fare better.


Regarding Priests:

I was thinking more having one priest as a communion master, rather than many. I guess you want to construct a battery of slaves and masters - in that case the only way you can do it is with Slann as masters and priests as slaves. Something they are awesome at btw :P

It's a shame you can't just recruit a Slann to come last, but I don't think that the higher unit ID makes them that much better. A lot of the time you don't want your slaves casting stupid stuff, because they'll only get fatigued to death when the master casts powerful spells. The metagaming nature of it is something that's out of my control - I personally feel communions rely way too heavily on invisible unit IDs and I'd rather that element was removed, replaced with Communion Master, Communion Slave and Communion Member (slave that casts) spells.

I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that in a reverse communion, the slaves that can cast spells get boosted paths from being in the communion. Is it just that they get boosts from the buffs then? If that's the case, then you can still benefit in the case of having one skink master (easier to make sure he casts after the slaves) or finding a slann with a high hidden ID.

I put in automatic slave and master not entirely as a benefit, but as a feature. It's clearly a double edged sword, which pleases me. The fact is Skinks should always be slaves if a Slann is around - they live only to support them after all. Slann should never be slaves and if I could have my way, skinks wouldn't be able to commune with each other.

That said,.. there is a solution I can offer, in the form of a Skink Shaman from the Southlands. There they have very few Slann and are much more feral, so it makes sense that some spawnings of priests are not part of the temple cities. These could be non sacred, get the possibility of fire magic in their elemental pick (currently restricted to Slann and naughty Sotek cultists) and not be automatic slaves. I'm thinking around 70 gold with a research malus. That way you'd have 50% of them able to master up and 25% of those able to use fire magic, possibly leading to some destructive communions, yet overall the priest would be a better investment.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - Beta released
 

Nice, that sounds like a good solution, I like it. I think I agree with everything you say, actually.

Yep, that's right.

Sounds like I have been trying to use the kroxigor in a naïve way then. I'll give them a try with some skinks, but from what you say it sounds like the price is about right.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

-- version 0.3

-- Changed salamander breath to avoid conflict with cbm

-- Added Skink Shamans

-- Reduced cost of skink cav and terradons, made terradons size 3

-- blowpipes more accurate, less damaging

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Awesome.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Oof, research malus 2 on the shaman is quite harsh. The ones with nature instead of astral will be quite painfully useless.

Still, despite my endless complaining, thanks very much for adding them!

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Ouch, skink priest has gone up to 90 gold! Aah! The 70-gold priests were my favourite thing!

This will call for some serious strategy rethinks. Are you sure they should be so expensive? They're not exactly powerful in anything less than very large numbers.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Llama you are spamming :D ban your self :D

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

:p .

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

The skink priests were actually 90 gold in the last version too.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Really? Obviously I've cracked. Ah well.

Apologies for the overexcitable spamming Sombre. :)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

A wild llama was sighted kicking and braying. Unrest has increased by 10!

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

/me hands Sombre a Rat Tail.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Eep!

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Any more feedback coming in for the lizzies?

The next update will focus on tweaks to get an early balance, giving the salamders their water shape, at least one blood spell for sotek priests,... and probably the 3rd generation slann as a summon. I don't think it will get a particularly different graphic, probably just a modified throne, more bling and a different colour. I'm thinking blue.

The 2nd gen slann are going to be 5 unique summons. Each had a different duty in shaping the world itself and this will be reflected in their abilities. In the simplest sense there might be one with very strong earth magic, one with water, one with air, one with fire and one with nature. But they'll get other stuff too - domsummoning sacred spawnings, different movement abilities (some mobile, some immobile), onebattlespells etc.

I'm already invisioning the havoc a stormflying onebattlespell-storm mapmove 10 uberslann could cause. Or an immobile F6 bugger that generates fire gems. Teehee.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I can't wait to see the second generation slann. They should be a sight to inspire terror in your opponent. Are you going to put them in different paths like with the sacred spawnings?

As far as feedback goes, on the one hand the lizards seem incredibly strong to me. They have a very solid early game with the quite decent temple guard, or the sneakily trample-resistant skink/kroxigor army, or even the saurus warrior army. Also cavalry and salamanders, while expensive, should not be underestimated. In the mid game they have all those happy sacred spawnings, and access to many powerful battlefield spells. By the late game, you'll probably have been clamming pretty good, you're an inherently powerful astral nation and can make giant communions to boost your slann to crazy levels of power to cast just about whatever you want in battle. You also have excellent forging abilities, and I think saurus oldbloods would make for a pretty decent chassis earlier in the game.

The only real weakness they have, I think, is slann equipment slotting (their incredible cost aside). If you want to cast higher level globals you'll probably have to empower a number of slann (at least until the 2nd generation becomes available to you), which is of course expensive. I completely agree with the logic about their lack of slots, as they're just too large and abnormally shaped to actually equip most of the forged items, and while I could see them being capable of using a single a hand-held booster one-handed ones basically don't exist, and you really don't need slann turning into SCs with shields and aoe weapons.

Most of this is theory-crafting though in honesty, I haven't played as Itza very much. I had a little game going a few days before the warhammerama game started and was pretty much just playing around to see what they could do and check out the sacred spawnings.

Edit: On second thought their very expensive forts are quite a drawback as well. The fort cost is very good at holding them back a bit early on. I would say this was another very good choice for balance as well as aesthetic purposes.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I forgot to thank rdonj for that feedback. I have many ideas for the lizards, though I'm quite surprised by the lack of response on the forums. I really thought they'd be a hit. They're rather pretty after all and have some unique qualities.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I'm contemplating trying to write a guide for them. I still haven't played them that much but I really want to. They have so many neat things they can do. I'll probably look into that after some of the other 5 million things I have to do today are out of the way.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I've played a few single player games with them and I've got to say they feel really powerful. With a W, N and E bless the temple guard sacreds just never die, I've very rarely found myself using any of the other summoned sacreds because they're not as durable or very situational. Obviously this would completely change in a multiplayer game, but I've no experience there. I was planning on waiting for you to complete the nation before I provided feedback, but I'll say that they are indeed very thematic and very beautifully drawn. I've enjoyed them very much so far.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

If I ever do write that guide, I hope to change your mind about that :) I agree that Itza feels pretty powerful, but not just for their temple guard. Actually in the Warhammerama game that's just finishing up, llamabeast's temple guard are more or less just high morale chaff atm, it's his massive slann-lead skink communions that hold the real power. Though I would be the first to say that his bless is definitely sub-optimal for fighting me.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

A beautifull mod, but is it a surprise ? No. Now we want Sombre 3d sprites !(?)

Can't remember any numbers actually, but It seems to me that I found the resource cost quite low for all the saurus chaps, who can easily crush any heavy infantry they encounter(cavalry is not safe either),magic weapons on everyone is really good too. I don't know if it is really overpowered, as their magery is all clumsy and hard to use (you clearly won't have support mages everywhere)(I play rather big maps).

All in all I need to restart a game and look at those nifty sacred summons again. It seems to me they were quite usefull. (a tool for each job)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I think I'm going to pay particular attention to the balance of the temple guard. When I made them I was comparing Itza with Mictlan, due to their many similarities, and envisioned the Temple Guard as being on par with Jaguar Warriors in their overall awesomeness. The problem there is that Mictlanese troops are mostly rubbish, while Itza has an excellent range of troops and avoids many of the disadvantages of Mictlan to boot.

The sacred summons are also somewhat eclipsed by the Temple Guard, who benefit from a rather different bless (E9 actually works on them for instance and their durability favours regen and reinvig). So perhaps they just need a cost hike.

I doubt I will increase resource costs across the board. Itza are pretty much a sloth nation, since their armour and weaponry is largely either biological or naturally occuring.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I actually think the Temple Guard are a bit too strong. Not dramatically so, but just to the extent that I don't bother recruiting anything else any more (apart from the red skinks sometimes). Given the amazing range of troops that the Lizardmen have, that's quite a pity.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I think there are definitely some cases where the temple guard will be worse than other options, but that makes other choices like skinks (when facing heavy aoe battlemagic), salamanders (vs niefel for example) etc far too niche.

I am going to set them to mapmove 1, reflecting their overwhelming instinct to stay with the Slann/Temple. Then I'll look at their cost.

No matter what, lizards will clearly remain a bless nation, but I don't want a case where temple guard are all you build, that's for sure.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I think they're already mapmove 1.

Anyway, I reckon you might want to make them more expensive. Or remove their armour again - that'd make people more inclined to use offensive blesses rather than E9. I think that'd be quite cool actually. Yep, that plan gets my vote.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Ah yes, Saurus are already mapmove 1. Hmm.

I'm not sure I want to remove their armour entirely. Instead I'll probably make it very weak. It's just a pair of gold shoulderguards after all. They could also be more expensive in terms of gold and resources (since they are carrying a fair bit of bling).

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Maybe you could help encourage the use of the sacred spawn summons by enhancing their diversity. I seem to remember not being very impressed when I first summoned my batches of sacred spawns because I'd think "well, these are just normal saurus with slightly more armour, or slightly more magic resistance. I think it'd be neat to make each spawning more unique by giving them something else, different weapons perhaps, or maybe special commander summons for each spawning with their own abilities that mesh well with their given troops. I'm just thinking out loud here, and I imagine that the spawns may become more attractive with the nerf to Temple Guard. Still, unique and diverse troops never hurts :)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

The temple guards definitely do encourage a bless, and having skink priests and the slann also as sacred gives even more incentive for a high earth bless. But I think the temple guard perform at least on par with something like S9/E6/N4, and with that bless all those sacred spawnings benefit and become a whole lot more interesting. It also gives them an S9 caster which they will otherwise have to spend a lot of gems empowering to get.

But I would also contend that Itza is completely viable even without a bless. Taking an awake research/site searching rainbow pretender could really help boost their magic to reach the dizzying heights of power the slann communions can reach on the battlefield more quickly. Playing without the temple guard does make expansion a bit slower, but saurus warriors and skinks do fine on most indies, and you have things like kroxigor and salamanders to ruin a player's day.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Also, I think the sacred summons are pretty much fine the way they are. However, having mark-specific commanders is a pretty good idea. The sacred spawnings of huanchi, for example, would be much better off if lead by a lizard with the mark of huanchi, to take better advantage of their terrain survival bonuses.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I was thinking thematically it would be fun to have, for example (and forgive my shorthand, I don't have the unit names with me at work) the water spawn with tridents or the stealthy ones with spears or javelins or the earth ones with maybe just a claw and a larger defensive shield, perhaps the fire ones with a larger axe or club. Stuff like that.

e: I'm not sure how well any of that fits with the Itza lore, but it would help to spice things up, rather than have hundreds of the same saurus models of a slightly different colour.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

It seems strange blowpipes in the PD start in front of their shielded brethen. They get killed fast, then the shielded ones rout, very sad to watch.

Glamour is really good on chameleon, they tend to survive longer in melee than the red skinks, seems a bit odd. Wouldn't it be better to give them airshield to represent the fact they are hard to spot from a distance ?

The various spawnings spells are really good to rapidly raise armies of sacred buddies,pumping 40 of them per turn can be quite devastating. And some of those fellas are really good (air,earth,astral). So they complement well an army of temple guards.

I wonder how much this faction would beneficiate from a multiple minor bless (F,W,S,N,E). As your armies are hard to replace, and CBM boosts most minor spells, I think Astral 4 or 6 is mandatory.

It's true that temple guards are great, as well as the cap only thug on lizard, but coldblooded is a huge drawback if you don't manage to have second sun up fast. I don't think they are really superior to Mictlan because of this flaw, which is easy to exploit in MP. (can't remember the name of the spell which lowers temperature)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

rdonj: I think that's a good idea about the sacred spawns. I think I'll use nextspell to make sure you get a nice commander version along with your spawning. Probably with the same sprite (or very slightly changed) but with different stats.

Nasser: They are always going to look relatively similar, but perhaps I can do a little more to differentiate them. I'm adverse to creating more graphical work for myself, but there are minor changes I can make, like giving the water saurus a trident and possibly a UW shape. The stealthy spawning (Huanchi) already have spears rather than swords. I'm thinking of giving them poisonous bites too. As for the stat differences - again they aren't /huge/ and you're still talking sacred saurus warriors basically, but there are some major differences, like mapmove, ultra high prot, resistances (which can be a very big deal) and stealth. The one with slightly higher mr iirc also has boosted morale and something else about it - it's a combination of effects. There is one with greatly boosted mr too. You're right I can do a little more with them though.

Humakty: I don't think I can do much about the PD formations. I think I'll be changing blowpipes so they don't ignore shields btw, though I'll have to find something else to make them special. As for Chameleons, I can't give airshield via mod commands and it doesn't fit much better than glamour in battle anyway, while glamour gives the Chameleons their super stealth on the strategic map. I don't mind them being hard to kill in melee, because they cost a lot more than red skinks and don't do any damage back.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's really helpful. I'll take a look at sacred spawnings this weekend I think. Give them a few tweaks. I thought it might be fun to have one 'drop' its tail when badly hurt and get a second form (which it retains after battle - they don't grow back).

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Will they lose their sacred status along with the tail ?

Can that be modded ?

Just asking ...

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Sure that could be modded.

I'm not sure it makes sense though. They are sacred from their spawning onward after all.