Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Oops yes you(re right I mistook your purple with Pythium's.

Come on folks, gang on Pythium now before it's too late !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Zzzzz....zzzzz....

Eh, what, did someone mention Pyth?

By the time our ridiculously slow troops make it to the front through this maze of impassable rivers, forest and swamps in the East, Caelum will have surely won.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

whats that about the first turn i just received by mail?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

yeah whats that?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

looks like this turn 1 file is the same as the turn 25 one from Friday. I guess it was a hiccup in the server - we should check in with Llamabeast before this thing hosts again as that makes it ever harder to correct if there is anything to be done.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Yes anti can you delay the deadline until we contact Llamabeast?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

It's already delayed until Tuesday, so we should have plenty of time. That's strange, though :p

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Oooh dear, I think I got confused between AndeanZorro and DarwinsZorro! Let me take a look...

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I am guessing Llama confused Andean Zorro and Darwin's Zorro; Darwin's Zorro, Llama said, was started, but actually it is just not on the list anymore, and based on my email and whatnot, the times all match. So we'll see. I think we're overworking llamabeast http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Ok, that was easy - fixed! I accidentally "started" AndeanZorro instead of DarwinsZorro, but all it actually did was resend your turns and set the turn number to 1. So I've set it back to 25 again. Carry on!

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Ok, so play as if nothing happened. If you already sent your turns in, they should still be sent in. If you haven't, get your *** in gear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Although actually, there is a hosting delay for BigDisAwesome over the weekend (he should be back Sunday).

By the by, I think now would be a good time to thank Llamabeast again for all the great things he does for this community!

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Alright I'm back. I just got my turn in. Thanks again for the delay everyone.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You beat a whole lot of other people.

I don't want to change the hosting delay, in case other people planned around it, but please get your turns in when you can.

You're perfectly welcome BDA.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

You couldn't be more right.

THANKS LLAMA !!!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif <font color="red"> </font>

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Sorry for Pan holding the game up a bit. (just submitted my turn) Was all set to do my turn yesterday afternoon, but then I noticed the 1st turn email that got sent out with the AndeanZorro / DarwinZorro mixup, so thought it safer to hold it back until the all clear was given.

Also, I may need a delay this coming Friday+weekend (apols in advance). I've got a big family wedding on Saturday and no idea how much time (if any) I'll have to sort my turns out. Best case scenario is I won't need any delay, worst case is that I'll need a delay covering Friday-Sunday. Will know more towards the end of the week, but thought I'd give everyone a heads up now. And the days of 5 minute turns are long gone for me as well, since it takes me about an hour to do a turn now. Too much chaff! :-)

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'm trying to help!

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'd like to make some things clearer about the rules we use in this game.

I thought i was agreed in MP games that NAPs should always be respected. They could be broken in th agreed delay.
Isn't it so in this game?

Because a certain satyre nation just broke a NAP-3 and attack me in the same turn.

The other games I've been in made it an unbreakable rule so it would be good to know how we stand in this one.
I don't see the point of making any NAP in this game if they're worth smoke you see.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

My understanding was that there is no 'rule' per se that governs treaties/pacts etc, its up to the player to trust the other party. Of course, any broken NAP should be made public so that the offender's reputation is tarnished, but I've always found the capacity to backstab is what makes diplomacy in multiplayer games potentially so exciting. I'm always too proud of my reputation to do it, but it always adds spice to a game when it happens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Ok then.
To add spice, I'd like you all to know Pangea was the one asking for the treaty while Ashdod was biting at his hoofs a few turns ago.

Since he sent his god and about 500 troops to me, all those of you that have an interest in his whereabouts or want to uphold any honor in this game shall feel free to go and plunder his lands, he won't have much to defend.

Enjoy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Yes it is true, the Ruler of the Groves found it necessary to commit the age old, and well practiced art of treachery against the flight gifted ones, and no defence is sought for our actions. But surely the ancient High Seraphs must have realised that a time would come when other nations no longer turned a blind eye to their quest for domination of this world. The wise rulers of the skies must have known their plan to swallow up any neighbour smaller than themselves, until none remained, would not go unnoticed forever. Indeed, I foresee the other nations of the world rejoicing at the news that someone is prepared to stand against the growing might of Caelum.

So while Pangaea can be considered the villain in this particular chapter of history, it is Caelum's over aggressive actions that has made the writing of it a necessity. As we found it impossible to merely sit and watch another smaller nation fall victim to the powerful gaze from the Eye of Caelum. We consider Marignon to be our friends, and Caelum's decision to engage them in open hostilities has forced the Maenad hordes to respond accordingly.

Marignon will not be the latest casualty of Caelum's glory seeking, as it is they themselves who will be the eventual victims of their war.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

My understanding of NAP's was that, like Drager said, NAP's are not 100% binding unless stated in the rules for the particular game you are playing.

Some games also state that NAP's are binding if they are officially declared in the game thread (see the EA DarkParadise game for an example of this), but any secret NAP's made are not subject to the same binding rules as the public ones. I guess it is only fair that if you are not prepared to tell anyone about your secret NAP's, then you can't really expect anyone to listen to your complaints when your secret NAP's get broken. From reading numerous posts on these forums, it seems that most of the time NAP's are honoured, but backstabbing is part of the risk of NAP's (know your enemies well, but know your allies even better) and a part of MP games in general.

I'm sure I read somewhere (although I could well have either imagined it, or merged many separate comments into one) that one of the reasons the devs haven't put any official game diplomacy options into the game is because they don't want any. As Dominions is meant to be a fight to the death (there can be only one etc.) so the only diplomacy that really exists is to make sure that you
(a)give the other nations a good reason NOT to attack you (ie. becoming the most powerful is a good deterrent)
(b)don't give them a reason TO attack you (ie. becoming the most powerful is a sure way of encouraging others to gang-up on you)
(c)don't give them an opportunity TO attack you (ie. don't stretch your forces too thinly by starting lots of wars)
All of the above is obviously a difficult balancing act, with (a) and (b) being a great example of a blatant contradiction!!! But then that's just another part of the this great game in my view :-)

But I am still a newb, so all of the above is just a collection of my thought on NAP's, and what I've read in many various threads on the subject. Apologies to everyone (and a HUGE apology to Kheldron) if I have broken a golden rule of MP-games that I'm unaware of, although as far as I can tell I haven't done. (I don't think breaking NAP's is held on anywhere near the same level as, or generates as much anger as for example, the whole 'Mists of Deception + Retreat' issue)

I don't generally make a habit of breaking NAP's (easy to say that now of course :-)) although I accept the risk of the 'tarnishing brush' being swept vigorously over my reputation as a result of me breaking a NAP. All that is left to say is that my mouse hand was forced into doing it by Marignon's threatened destruction. Either that or my Maenad's 'Sat-Navs' are playing up, and found themselves in Caelum's lands instead of Ashdod's :-)

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I for one is very happy to see at least one deciding to take the right decision and punish the war mongering Caelum, who attacked us with no reason or no warning. I have personally seen the result of their attack on the general population, and believe me when I say its not pretty. The world will be a better place without the evil of Caelum, and we will do ours to make sure it happens!

Marignon

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

My...poor poor Pangeans fighting against the evil almighty ogre of Caelum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

What I see is the biggest army in the world and an overpowered deified gorgon taking advantage of a former ally to increase his dominion.

You don't *have* to justify you warmongering with my so-called agressivity you know? You're just a bloody monster and can't help your nature ?
YOU were the one to ask for a NAP when you were wounded by Ashdod and I the one who could have striked at you and chosed peace instead, remember? That was only 2-3 months ago.
I for one uphold my honor and would not have gone to such depth.

Let it be known in the taverns of the world and the underworld, Pangeans are the most treacherous people of all.
Hail to all those of you who make him bleed for that!

In the meantime, we shall proudly fight to the death, which may not be ours.

Nekraal

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

You talk as though Pangaea is a saint.
One piece of advice is to be careful against him. Right now I'm learning the hard way that huge amounts of chaff seem to fare better in this high research game than others.

I'm surprised to see Pangaea attacking 2 of his neighbors that were looking for peace now. Who's next on your list? Perhaps you should watch out for him Pythium.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I feel inclined to note for other observers of this altercation that we're only hearing from the participants themselves, and they are all biased.

I laud Pangaea for standing against a perceived oppressor, but I condemn them for their treachery. Were it not for their relations with Ashdod, I may consider them heroes. While Caelum is aggressive in the extreme, having consumed one nation and wasting no time in moving on to the next, I would say a better course of action for Pangaea would have been to pursue peace with Ashdod.

If Pangaea were truly interested in protecting Marignon and had thought it through, perhaps a better tactic would've been to maintain border tensions with Caelum, thereby making it more difficult for Caelum to commit to a full scale assault on Marignon.

That said, I am not attempting to vilify anyone. My goal is the same as Caelum's, the same as everyone's. And in Pangaea's situation, I would've fought against Caelum as well.

May I remind everyone that the condition of victory in this conflict is the control of five capitols. Caelum as two. Marignon's becomes a third. Pangaea's would make a fourth. Who else is then neighboring Caelum? Perhaps a better question would be, who is NOT then neighboring Caelum? And who is NOT then threatened?

I am both impressed with Caelum's success and threatened by it. I anticipate a somewhat scathing reply, despite my fairly neutral appraisal of the situation. But anyone knows that dominance in this game brings hostile attention . . . as it should.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

What's happening to Eriu - they look like they are on the way out.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

They were holding off Abbyssia for a while.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Looks like I'm going to need that delay I talked about for Friday-Sunday. I should be able to do the current turn, but then I'm going to have no chance of getting the following turn done until Monday. I'd be able to manage if the turns were quick, but they're taking me well over an hour now, and there's no way I'll have that sort of time free this weekend due to my best man duties at a family wedding. (I can do turns in both my other 2 games in less than 5 minutes combined, so I'll be able to sneak them in)

Apols to all about disrupting the flow of the game :-( Should be back to normal service from Monday on.

Calahan

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Delay is set. No problem Calahan, gaming'd be silly if it made life impossible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'm going away for a while and then moving house s I'm trying to find a permenant sub, I don't know if I'll be able to take turns until then so feel free to set me to ai.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

If I set you AI, I can't un-set you AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I move on vacations on wednesday 30th until the 16th of august.
I'll try to connect as often as possible (game on usb key) but I can't vouch for more than once every 2-3 days.
Is it possible to have a 72h timer starting on wednesday ? If it's too much to bear, I'll try to play with 48h but...

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

should go with 72 hours until Kheldron is able to log on more frequently. It would be a shame to have him stale or be forced to sub or AI

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

All

Thanks for the delay this weekend, and apols for the hold-up. Should be able to get the current turn done in a few hours.

And I second 'Dragar' in saying we should move to 72hr turns to accomodate 'Kheldron'. Be silly to lose anyone at this stage just because of the hosting being too rapid.

Also, once 'Kheldron' is back properly on or around the 16th August, what's the general concensus on this game then moving to 48hr turns? The game will be close to turn 40 by then, which I think is quite late on to still be on a 24hr timer. I know I'm currently struggling to keep to a 24hr timer on a good day. (although I'm guessing my turns probably take longer to do than anyone else).

If most still want to keep with 24hr turns then that's cool. Just thought I'd throw the idea of 48hr turns out there and see what got thrown back :-)

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

yeah lets do that, 72 hours now, and 48 once back to normal.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Thanks all.
I promise I'll try to make it as quick as ever.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

72 hours is the new hosting interval. Continue to play when you can, but I very much agree that we should do our best to accommodate Kheldron.

"The hosting interval for AndeanZorro has now been changed to 72 hours, and the deadline for the next hosting has been automatically postponed by 48 hours.

Please note that this information will not be updated on the game status page for a few minutes."

Done.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I am going to be out of town for about 24 hours this weekend (JUST enough to get a stale). I hope you don't mind giving me a 36 hour extension. I will, of course, return and send my turn ASAP when I am back.

Uh, I actually went ahead and delayed it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Hail Lords of War,

it is with great sadness that I must bear grave news. Know all that honor has definetly fled our world as the aliens of R'lyeh proved to be no less treacherous than their satyre counterparts. They just broke a NAP-5 they asked for when I was in a position to deny them most of their lands.

Act as your heart decide if you also have an agreement with these despitefdul creatures.

Lord of the deep, we believe your deeds were dictated by greed as much as vileness as you saw Pangea holding me in a stranglehold. You may have acted rashly to ensure some share of my lands before it was too late.
Well, Pangea just took a backbeat for having been too greedy and it would have been worse had he acted as I thought.
Meditate on this when you salivate on the piece of cake. I'm made of the bitterest lemon.

Anyway, if we intend to fight till the end, I do realize that being ganged by three nations is no less a trial than building sandcastles with a coming tidal wave.
To all of you who have borders with Pangea and R'lyeh, know then that they shall soon be more powerful than ever after swallowing me...and they just showed how much you can trust any agreement you had with them.

Now would be a good time to strike I believe.

Nekraal of Caelum

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

R'lyeh went AI, but I am moved by your impassioned plea none the less, and I will gladly assist you by conquering the water provinces http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



P.S.
I like Lemon Cake

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Those are the best news of the day ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I only have to cope with 2,5 gangers now.
Erf...

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Why'd he go AI? When?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

He posted a little while ago,and i started getting hit by rlyeh very soon afterwards

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Pace has really slowed in this game. I am not sure - are we waiting on the folks who needed 72 hours or just going to be 72 hours from now on.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I'm sorry about that delay with virtually no warning! I am back now, and hosting will go back to 24 hours.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

thats cool, but i think we agreed to 48 hours from now on.

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Didn’t we say 72 hours until the 16th when kheldron is able to log on more frequently, with a probable move to 48 hours after that?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

yes thats right

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

I guess I am wondering - it seems turns are being done by kheldron but we are still waiting 72 hours?

Re: Andean Zorro = MA; diff research/VP victory -
 

Oh, my bad. It goes back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif