Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Yeah, I'm sure all those links that gristmill provides to scientific studies and graphs made by NASA, WWF, EPA, American Meteorological Society, National Academy of Sciences and many others are not nough for you, they're so less "scientific in nature" than your claims.

But it's ok to be rude with me, tough man, I'm not thin-skinned. Just be sure you're not over-compensating. :rolleyes:

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Oh, but who do I want to tease? I hate quarreling :( Metaphorical beer together guys? :cheers:

I offer the first round!

MaxWilson :beer:
Omnirizon :beer:
Licker :beer:
Edi :beer:
JimMorrison :beer:
thejeff :beer:
sum1lost :beer:
Illuminated One :beer:
cleveland :beer:
Tichy :beer:
Executor :beer:
llamabeast :beer:
Me :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


Forgot someone? :p (*hic*)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Don't I get a beer?

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Yep, added. I knew I was gonna forgot someone :D Salute!

(and salute to the polar bears and pandas too :cry:)

PS: Hey, my beers evaporated!! That's global warming!! (*hic*) :p

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

There is a competing theory that those beers sublimated down your throat. :o

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I appreciate the gesture, but I actually don't drink. (I'm Mormon.) Can I have a root beer?

-Max

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Oh, of course, excusez moi :D Some pie too? :cake:

One for Soyweiser too I suppose! :beer:

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I thanked you for trying to stop the discussion.

What spells are a available to a lvl 1 beer mage? ;)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

No idea. I'm more proficient in the use of spirit magic, where strong spirits are used as ingredients. Said ingredients to be consumed by caster during spellcasting, naturally. :D

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

[quote=Soyweiser;660211]Hrm...

Belch of Poisonous Vapours (fear effect, limited range, caster not immune)
Boozy Aura (standard effect, but only for other imbibers)
Beer Goggles (-10 precision, +10 morale)

Of course, every beer mage aspires to the apex of alcoholic pyrotechnics:

Flaming Orifice (effects better left undescribed)

:)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Now we're so OT we can see the forum of the Guinness beer from here :D

[OT] Adding fuel to the (global warming) fire
 

This is where I think a lot of people are missing the boat... why is no one looking at global warming as an opportunity?

*Rapid* big effects are most likely bad news... but *slow* big effects can be great. Imagine Canada and Russia being as warm and fertile as North Carolina or France today! OK, yeah, Bangladesh might sink, but if we can get our act together we could invite all those Bangladeshi farmers to the fertile plains of Siberia to grow crops there instead...

It doesn't *have* to be a disaster if it's managed right!

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

On Russian agriculture: http://bluishcertainty.blogspot.com/...riculture.html

In particular, Russia is trying to develop its agricultural industry: http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblo...e_sickles.html

-Max

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

"*Rapid* big effects are most likely bad news... but *slow* big effects can be great. Imagine Canada and Russia being as warm and fertile as North Carolina or France today! OK, yeah, Bangladesh might sink, but if we can get our act together we could invite all those Bangladeshi farmers to the fertile plains of Siberia to grow crops there instead..."

That depend on how much the sea level rises. Americas west coast, Indonesia, I'm sure there are some other places besides Bangladesh that would sink

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Besides the fact, you are at a net loss, without a doubt.

Let us forget about the insane cost to displace -billions- of people because their home is now inhospitable to human life.

Let's ponder the implications of those people having to migrate not just uphill, but into other people's lands. Can you even imagine how many people, how many population centers, would be directly and adversely affected by rising sea levels, in India and China alone? I am sure that all of those Russian farmers will be -so excited- when millions of starving, desperate, impoverished, and possibly diseased Chinese start pouring over their borders.

Maybe, have you given a thought to how many people in Europe, and in fact the entire world, live in coastal regions? Or perhaps how many people live in Mexico on the very edge of regional climactic extremes? What will the US do when Mexico has to move north or die? Will we just give them the lower states, and annex Canada?

If sea levels rise enough to begin threatening the lives, homes, and livelihoods of many millions of people, you can bet that it will only lead to war - and not just little pissy wars that America likes to start - a big war, that will necessarily involve everyone, and sadly probably degenerate to the point that someone like North Korea or Pakistan decides to go nuclear.


There is no silver lining to global climate change. Oh wait, there is one - if we annihilate our entire species, don't worry, because there will likely be enough genetic and organic material left over that another sentient species should evolve within 10-20 million years, I'm sure. That's a drop in the bucket, thankfully.

I just love the typical conservative attitude "well, if it's good for business today, it must be best for everything tomorrow!". Just fish around for some completely ignorant person to say that he is doing just as well or better than before, and suddenly you have a case for ignoring the ruination of the world. It has worked for us for at least a hundred years now, no reason to rock that boat, eh?

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

whoa! so I can just write anything I want in a blog somewhere, and then I'm able to cite it as worthwhile opinion?

the internets is amazing!

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

If anyone but Omni doesn't understand why I included a link to my own blog in response to krpeters' comments, I apologize and will try to be more clear next time.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I must not be fun to argue with on this subject, no one wants to argue the validity of my points anymore. :shock:

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Looks like someone just cast Wolven Winter on the San Francisco bay area too.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

*chuckle*

What's the point in arguing?

If you want to enjoy some quality flame time I can point you to any number of lightly moderated places where you can get off your jollies.

I would imagine that any responses to your pointless and baseless fearmongering wouldn't be appropriate here. ;)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

There's not any actual "flaming" until you use terminology like "pointless and baseless fearmongering".

All you had to say was that you had no possible way to debate the point. That you agree that it would be a catastrophe beyond your reckoning if even 10% of the tropical/subtropical/coastal peoples of the world were displaced, and/or if any significant amount of the far northern land that is becoming arable, merely mirrors a similar amount of previously marginal land that becomes unusable.

It pains me every time I see a human being who is so shortsighted, that they don't think there is any potential set of circumstances that they themselves might help arrange, which could completely and irrevocably change the world that they live in. It is that level of ignorance that leaves us with a body public who are mainly divided among 2 camps - those who would jolly drive us off of a cliff because they refuse to admit it exists, and those who have become too timid and numb to actually stop it from happening before it's too late.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I stand by what I said.

Pointless and baseless fearmongering FTW!!!

By the way, pandemic, or asteroid impact, or...

All more likely than your doomsday scenario. I suppose you have thoughts on those issues?

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

licker, your answers sometimes presuppose links in the neural network beyond human comprehension :shock: I can't understand really why you answer to serious, science-supported concerns about the foreseeable future, with FTWs and exclamation marks and unrelated matters and invitations to other users to "find other forums for that" (which would eventually be the job of the admins -who are also partecipating the discussion- , in case you missed the memo ;) ).

-

On another topic, I actually think that krpeters's post was a joke... Thanks to Jim for having made clear the absurdity of the whole thing anyway :)

@ Max... are you auto-quoting yourself as a source?? :D

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Somebody has cast mist on the Netherlands.

I hope you don't seriously think that in the next 100 years it is more likely to be killed by a asteroid than by global warming or another form of man-made pollution.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

All you're doing is trolling now.

In case you haven't been on the internet long enough yet, let me clarify for you - mocking me only shows that you are incapable of continuing with reasonable debate. This generally can only stem from one of two reasons: a)my assertions are true enough but you don't want to admit it, or b)you are out of your depth, and incapable of continuing with a reasonable and meaningful discussion.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I agree with Jim. Even one single small event can change the entire world.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

:sucks:


:dito:

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Unfortunately I haven't been able to keep track on this discussion but it seems that the topic has changed a little from the original. The overall pattern as far seems to bee Snow in New Orleans-> Global warming, true or false?-> Beer and how its related to dominions.

Either way I would just like to say that it sucks that its not snowing in Finland and I'm truly jealous for you people there. So far the only one to blame is global warming so I shall blame global warming. Damn you for not letting me skate and ski and sue someone for snowballs.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I hope this doesn't get me banned. but I just have to say:

****Image removed by Annette****

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Since you seem to be curious, I don't bother to debate certain issues on Teh Internetz unless some circumstance forces my hand. Global Warmism (and environmentalism, generally) belongs on that list. Religion and politics are the other topics I don't usually discuss online.

For an example of why, I refer you back to the highly-OT Bible discussion thread a while ago. I think we had a good discussion. My chief purpose was to dismantle a few stereotypes that the media has created. I don't know how well I succeeded, but I believe that I encouraged at least a few people to think beyond the cliche of evangelical Christians as being toothless, ignorant bigots.

Still, that thread took a lot of my time. Hours per day. The effort wasn't sustainable in the long term, and I had to retire from the discussion. Also, while we did a good job of remaining civil, the thread was starting to devolve. Much longer, and I think we would have had a flame war going. Better to let the matter drop before that happens!

To recap, I don't debate Global Warmism online because:

1. It's too time-intensive, and
2. People get too hot about it, so the threads tend to degenerate into flaming.

But let's be clear: Simply because there isn't anyone who's willing to argue Global Warmism with you does not mean that you've "won" the argument. (Whatever "winning" means in this context.) It simply means that people don't want to argue with you. :)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Isn't the only way to win an argument to convince the other guy of your points? This never really happens on the internet sadly. Especially regarding certain touchy subjects (Global warming, religion, vegetarianism, terrorism, windows vs linux, piracy ;), all ages mod vs no all ages mod, etc). It is a waste of time, sadly. Because people don't really want listen to each other.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Looks like I should have explained better after all. krpeters said, "Why does no one talk about benefits of warming to agriculture in Russia and Canada?" I intended to say, "Here's some numbers I cranked earlier this year, and a source I found useful." Looks like I was overly terse, even though I did also include a link directly to the source.

Of course, if you don't know who Thomas Barnett is, you may not have found the source useful either.

-Max

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

It does happen sometimes on the Internet. Look at Baalz' guide to Marverni, and how many people changed their minds about the horribleness of Marverni after that. The trick is recognizing when you're not getting anywhere. (Monkey PD!)

-Max

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

The functioning of Maverni inside a closed system that is very easy to grasp and which has a significant effect on the way people play a game.

vs.

The functioning of climate change in an open system that career scientists spend their entire lives attempting to grasp and which guides policy decisions that have significant effects on culture, capital, and lifestyles.


Ok I see your point now. perfectly analogous.

consequently, I should mention the major salience of the debate has nothing to do with whether their is actually global warming, but rather it cleaves along lines of "americans need to change their lifestyles" vs. "the rest of the world needs to change theres, or no one need change at all." As evidence, I offer only the rhetoric in this thread. Notice the consistency of those who insist GW is a problem, versus the the movement between several arguments of those who do not think it is a problem. From the latter, we see everything from there is no GW, to the sun is causing GW (thus we can't stop it with our actions) to GW is happening but is a good thing. In all of these cases, also notice that the consequence of the "truth" about GW, or lack thereof, is always to allow _americans_ to retain their lifestyles and consumption patters; on top of that sometimes the rest of the world will be required to make a large change (such as Bangledesh farmers moving to Siberia). Whatever the argument chosen and its ultimate effect on policy, it is never the americans that need to make a change.

Think about it. or just think at least. I see very little of that actually happening.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

The bottom line for me is this.

Regardless of discussions like this, regardless of who is right. There is NO valid argument to further delay a switch to ecologically sustainable way of life.

We don´t need to agree on the scientific details about how severe a threat global warming is, why can´t we just agree to stop destroying the planet anyhow? There is an abundance of arguments for that besides global warming and few against.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Well I made that post specifically, because others were still arguing amongst themselves, but something odd had happened - my last few posts got no response whatsoever. Usually the "opposition" hops in to say I am wrong, but no one was doing so, and I wanted to know why. :p

I like discussing and debating. The curious thing, is that most forums are organized for a certain segment of the population, and either most agree with eachother to a great degree, or everything that is strictly off topic is completely out of bounds, period.

If anyone knows of a place where people debate such things in a healthy manner, I'd check it out. Though it seems silly if the point is debating such issues, as I would get told off for starting a "new" GW thread instead of searching for the old one, and my first post would be on page 312. :p

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Yep, but Marveri is not a touchy subject.

Actually there is. Economic costs. Switching to ecologically sustainable way of life now, with our current technology, could be more expensive than waiting a few years for better research and retooling the entire world then. Say if we wait for fusion technology, or the next generation solar cells, it will all be better.

(I don't agree with it, but it is an argument).

Also, we don't know the effects of certain 'sustainable' technologies. Wind energy for example. We don't know what all these windmills have for effect. First law of thermodynamics, the energy must come from somewhere. So it will have some effect. (Recent research has shown that it will influence weather patterns).

(I agree with this one, so while I'm a total longhaired smelly hippy. I'm pro nuclear energy).

There you have it. To arguments against.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Now see, this all happened because Tifone gave beer to everyone, and not everyone handles alcohol good.
I suggest candy next time, it improves the mood. :)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Even touchy subjects can be profitably discussed, if you discuss them with the right people. Or are you really saying you've never seen anyone acknowledge a valid point by someone with whom they strongly disagree, on the Internet? That would be a sad thing.

-Max

Edited

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Not often on these subjects, at least not on boards not about these subjects (of course I'm exaggerating a bit). Discussing global warming at the dom3 forum? Bad idea. Discussing it on a forum about global warming, great idea.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

"Discussing global warming at the dom3 forum? Bad idea. Discussing it on a forum about global warming, great idea."

So why does everybody keep discussing it? It's the beer isn't it?

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

there are GW forums with real scientists?

that's probably why it isn't discussed there by the people trying to talk about it here.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Just feeding the trolls ;). Otherwise they would have to live under a bridge. Or perhaps, I'm afraid to live under a bridge myself.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Lol, peaceful attempt to sink the whole thing in beer = FAILED :D

I have just one question for my old friend SlipperyJim...
Why do we find EVERY time to the opposite sides of the barricade?? :p
Really, I can spot your position just by the way you refer to this "Global Warmism" ;)

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I think it's because my attempt to invoke Godwin's Law ran afoul of Quirk's exception, which means the thread is hereby immune to any further attempts to Godwinize it.

-Max

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

Gee...

Ya think?

I've already made it clear that an argument with you on this topic is pointless, you've made up your mind beyond any shadow of doubt, so yeah, I'll just have some fun with it.

There's also c)this thread has gone on long enough and has become tedious to bother with in a serious manner.

If you are truly interested in a discussion of GW PM me, if you are only interested in parroting some meaningless alarmist babble don't bother.

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010405M

Is an interesting article by Tim Patterson which touches some of the points that have been made. If you would care to share your critique of it feel free.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

It has been my observation that the more responsible media outlets and (in the USA) our new more progressive leadership has rather preferred the term Climate Change to broach the subject of human influence on the climate and atmosphere. Global Warming has become much too divisive and doesn't adequately describe the phenomenon. Should the climate change, some places may get colder.

However you name it, hard to imagine we could make such a significant change in our atmosphere (increased CO2 levels) without having some measurable, observable affect on the global climate. These effects may not have manifested themselves to the extent we can link them to the changed composition of our atmosphere with complete certainty, at least not with the currently observable data, but surely some change will take, and has already taken place.

One thing I think gives a lot of perspective, especially in the context of those who think the earth is such a big place and cannot imagine how we could affect anything on such a scale, is how thin our atmosphere really is. Travel 30 miles in any direction NESW and you'll probably be somewhere quite similar to the place you started. Travel 30 miles straight up are you are in the Mesosphere, the wispy thin border of deep space.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

What happens if you travel 30 miles straight down?

You do know that we have had higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere before right? And that it was also very cold during that time? Oh, there are reasons I'm sure, well excuses more like it, to make up for unproven science being shoved down everyones throat.

Though I'm not sure who here is actually saying that 'we' shouldn't do anything, though I get the feeling that some of you think that.

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

We are gonna have to stop using fossil fuels eventually. Finite supply after all. Might as well get a headstart.

Also, go go fusion power!

Re: Someone cast Wolven Winter on New Orleans!
 

I personally think that we shouldn't focus on co2 alone. There are a lot more factors that show that we are kinda ruining our planet. Increased smog levels, polluted oceans (the floating plastic, dead spots), the ozone layer, depleting resources, overpopulation etc. Not all of this causes global warming. But it is all the caused by our inability to reduce our production population and our constant need for 'moar'.